WEBVTT 00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:05.629 (item:0:Chairwoman Jackson calls meeting to order) Good morning. This meeting of the Public Utility Commission 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:08.310 of Texas will come to order. To consider matters that 00:00:08.319 --> 00:00:11.050 have been duly posted with the Secretary of State for 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:15.470 October 12th, 2023. For the record, my name is Kathleen 00:00:15.478 --> 00:00:18.329 Jackson and I'm joined by Will McAdams, Lori Cobos, 00:00:18.339 --> 00:00:21.370 and Jimmy Glotfelty. Before we get started, I wanted 00:00:21.379 --> 00:00:24.170 to make everyone aware. (item:0:Chairwoman Jackson gives information on Winter Preparedness Work Session) The Commission is hosting a 00:00:24.179 --> 00:00:27.649 Winter Preparedness Work Session next Friday, October 00:00:27.658 --> 00:00:31.920 20th at 8am. And we'll discuss the Work Session later 00:00:31.929 --> 00:00:35.759 on in the Agenda. Public Comments for General Matters 00:00:35.770 --> 00:00:39.719 will be taken up when we get to Section 2, Item 14. 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:42.689 And Public Comments related to a specific Agenda Item 00:00:42.700 --> 00:00:45.728 will be heard when that Item is taken up. Speakers 00:00:45.740 --> 00:00:48.798 will be limited to three minutes each. Commenters should 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:51.389 not approach the table unless oral argument has been 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:54.918 granted or they have been invited by a Commissioner. 00:00:55.389 --> 00:00:57.959 Shelah, will you please walk us through the Consent 00:00:57.969 --> 00:01:01.520 Items on today's Agenda? Yes. (item:0.1:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel lays out Consent Agenda) Good morning Commissioners. 00:01:02.168 --> 00:01:04.909 By individual ballot, the following Items are placed 00:01:04.918 --> 00:01:10.989 on your Consent Agenda: Items 1, 2, 3, 6-11 and 13. 00:01:11.918 --> 00:01:14.180 (item:0.1:Chairwoman Jackson asks for motion to approve items on Consent Agenda) I will entertain a motion to approve the Items just 00:01:14.189 --> 00:01:15.250 described by Shelah. So 00:01:17.109 --> 00:01:20.040 moved. Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. 00:01:20.049 --> 00:01:24.338 Motion passes. Additionally, Item 32 will not be taken 00:01:24.349 --> 00:01:29.790 up. Items 1, 2 and 3 were Consented. Next up is Item 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:32.638 No. 4. Shelah, will you please lay out this Item? 00:01:32.909 --> 00:01:36.948 (item:4:Application of Orbit Systems & Undine Texas for STM of Facilities and Certificate Rights) Yes, ma'am. Item 4 is Docket No. 53629. This 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:40.159 is the application of Orbit Systems and Undine Texas 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:44.040 for the sale, transfer or merger of facilities and certificate 00:01:44.049 --> 00:01:47.278 rights in Brazoria County. Before you is an appeal 00:01:47.290 --> 00:01:51.150 of Order No. 20. Filed by a group of 13 landowners. 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:53.859 The Commission voted to place this Item on the Agenda 00:01:53.870 --> 00:01:56.088 for this Open Meeting, so the appeal is before you. 00:01:56.969 --> 00:02:00.069 Do you have any thoughts on this one? (item:4:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on the application) Yes. Uh I 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.000 would grant the landowner's appeal and reverse the 00:02:02.010 --> 00:02:05.088 Commission ALJ's order denying the landowner's motion 00:02:05.099 --> 00:02:08.679 to intervene and grant the landowner's motion. Um 00:02:08.689 --> 00:02:11.429 intervention in the docket. Uh the notice requirements 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:15.189 in the Texas Water Code exist for a reason. Landowners 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:20.338 must be afforded due process full stop. Um The good, 00:02:20.349 --> 00:02:22.360 a good cause exists for the late intervention. Because 00:02:22.368 --> 00:02:25.909 the landowners were never noticed by Orbit and Undine 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.599 about their STM and CCN amendment application. Um as 00:02:29.610 --> 00:02:31.558 required by the Texas Water Code and the Commission 00:02:31.569 --> 00:02:37.750 rules. And so um, I the arguments that um Orbit ending 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:41.099 raised regarding the tenants in common. Um are, are 00:02:41.110 --> 00:02:45.899 just not um uh I, I don't think that those um 00:02:45.909 --> 00:02:49.258 apply to the statute is written and what it, how a 00:02:49.270 --> 00:02:53.909 landowner is defined. And so um the type of ownership 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.800 of the track of land is relevant under the Water Code. 00:02:55.808 --> 00:02:58.330 And so I would um grant the intervention. 00:03:00.490 --> 00:03:03.699 (item:4:Commissioner McAdams' thoughts on the application) Madam Chair I, I for one agree with Commissioner Cobos. 00:03:04.058 --> 00:03:08.080 I would second that motion. I believe this Commission 00:03:08.088 --> 00:03:10.860 since we were comprised. Has always tried to adhere 00:03:10.868 --> 00:03:14.719 and reinforce the statutory and rule based requirements. 00:03:14.824 --> 00:03:19.175 Most especially notice so that those, those landowners are 00:03:19.183 --> 00:03:22.064 appropriate, appropriately informed as to their rights 00:03:22.074 --> 00:03:25.883 and their role in the process. Which helps inform our 00:03:25.895 --> 00:03:29.375 ultimate decisions. So I, I would support Commissioner 00:03:29.683 --> 00:03:32.750 Cobos on this one. I have nothing to add but I support 00:03:32.758 --> 00:03:37.528 the effort. And I support it as well. (item:4:Motion to grant the landowner's appeal & intervention, and reverse ALJ's decision) So your motion 00:03:37.538 --> 00:03:40.710 is to grant the landowner's appeal and reverse the 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:44.229 ALJs decision to deny the motion to intervene. Yes 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.409 ma'am and grant the landowner's intervention in the 00:03:46.419 --> 00:03:50.050 docket. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, 00:03:50.058 --> 00:03:52.610 say aye. Aye. Motion passes. 00:03:54.849 --> 00:03:58.558 Next up is Item No. 7, Item No. 5. Shelah, 00:03:58.569 --> 00:04:01.399 will you please lay out this memo, this Item? (item:5:Application of 3083 Utility LLC for a CCN in Montgomery County) Yes, ma'am. Item 00:04:01.409 --> 00:04:05.909 No. 5 is Docket No. 54273. This is the application 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:11.389 of 3083 Utility LLC for a certificate of convenience 00:04:11.399 --> 00:04:14.629 and necessity in Montgomery County. Before you is a 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.660 motion for rehearing filed by Commission Staff. The 00:04:17.670 --> 00:04:19.670 Commission voted to place this Item on the Agenda for 00:04:19.678 --> 00:04:21.829 this Open Meeting. And Commissioner Jackson filed a 00:04:21.838 --> 00:04:25.809 memo in this Docket. (item:5:Chairwoman Jackson lays out her memo) I filed a memo recommending granting 00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:29.048 rehearing and issuing an order on rehearing to correct 00:04:29.059 --> 00:04:32.379 the utility name on the tariff as detailed in my memo. 00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:34.970 Any additional thoughts? (item:5:Commissioner McAdams thoughts on the memo) Madam Chair, I agree with 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:38.678 your memo, the errors need to be corrected. And if you 00:04:38.689 --> 00:04:41.449 have a motion, I would second it. (item:5:Motion consistent with memo to grant rehearing and issue order for rehearing) I would move to grant 00:04:41.459 --> 00:04:44.048 rehearing and issue an order on rehearing, consistent 00:04:44.059 --> 00:04:47.869 with my memo. Second. Gotta a motion and a second. All in favor, say 00:04:48.238 --> 00:04:50.108 aye. Aye. Motion passes. 00:04:52.220 --> 00:04:58.278 Items 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 were Consented. Next up is Item 00:04:58.290 --> 00:05:00.970 No. 12. Shelah, will you please lay out this item? 00:05:01.649 --> 00:05:05.928 (item:12:Application of Southwestern Public Service Company to amend its CCN) Yes. Item 12 is Docket No. 55255, the application 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:08.759 of Southwestern Public Service Company to amend its 00:05:08.769 --> 00:05:12.290 certificate of convenience and necessity. To construct 00:05:12.298 --> 00:05:15.069 generation facilities in Lamb County, Texas and Leah 00:05:15.178 --> 00:05:18.410 County, New Mexico for good cause exceptions and for 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:22.059 related relief. Before you is a draft preliminary order. 00:05:22.250 --> 00:05:24.670 And have a Commissioner memo filed in this docket 00:05:24.678 --> 00:05:27.639 from Commissioner McAdams. Commissioner McAdams, you 00:05:27.649 --> 00:05:29.959 filed a memo. Could you please lay out your memo? (item:12:Commissioner McAdams lays out his memo) Thank 00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:34.000 you Madam Chair, Members. Yeah the memo, I think largely 00:05:34.009 --> 00:05:38.088 speaks for itself. Broadly I believe we need to keep 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:40.750 rate making matters to rate making proceedings. And 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:45.100 let's keep CCN matters to CCN proceedings. Therefore 00:05:45.509 --> 00:05:48.699 as per the memo, I would remove issues 35-50 00:05:48.709 --> 00:05:51.939 from the preliminary order. And add the issue detailed 00:05:51.949 --> 00:05:52.660 in the memo 00:05:54.189 --> 00:05:56.439 short of any other discussion. I'd, I'd be curious 00:05:56.449 --> 00:05:59.879 on your thoughts. But I think this is a consistent 00:05:59.889 --> 00:06:02.949 with the appropriate organization of how we consider 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:07.910 decisions of this magnitude, and welcome any thoughts. 00:06:09.129 --> 00:06:09.910 I'm in agreement. 00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:14.088 I'm in agreement as well. Thank you, Commissioner McAdams. 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:17.809 (item:12:Motion to approve preliminary order consistent with memo) Great. Madam Chair, if you would entertain a motion. 00:06:17.819 --> 00:06:19.988 I would move to approve the preliminary order consistent 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.220 with the memo. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in 00:06:23.230 --> 00:06:29.048 favor, say aye. Aye. Motion passes. Item 13 was Consented. 00:06:30.660 --> 00:06:33.769 We will now transition to Section 2 of our Agenda, 00:06:33.778 --> 00:06:37.879 Rules Projects and Miscellaneous Items. Let's give 00:06:37.889 --> 00:06:39.678 folks a minute to clear the room. 00:06:53.980 --> 00:06:56.798 (item:14:Chairwoman Jackson lays out instructions for General Comments) Let's begin with Item No. 14, general comments for 00:06:56.809 --> 00:07:00.298 topics not specifically posted on this agenda. Speakers 00:07:00.309 --> 00:07:03.119 will be limited to three minutes each. Shelah, do we 00:07:03.129 --> 00:07:06.040 have anyone from the public signed up to speak? (item:14:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms sign-ups for General Comments) Yes 00:07:06.048 --> 00:07:08.959 ma'am. We have two, two people that have signed up to speak. 00:07:08.970 --> 00:07:10.790 The first person is David Carter. 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.220 Mr. Carter, will you please come up and state your 00:07:16.230 --> 00:07:20.319 name and organization for the record? I think Mr. Carter 00:07:20.329 --> 00:07:20.988 stepped out. 00:07:24.970 --> 00:07:26.910 Do you want to go to the second speaker or? Let's do 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:30.278 the second speaker. All right. The second speaker is Cyrus Reed 00:07:31.220 --> 00:07:33.838 Okay. Can you please state your name and organization 00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:38.369 for the record? (item:14:Cyrus Reed, Lone Star Chapter of The Sierra Club on the upcoming Winter) Cyrus Reed, Lone Star Chapter of 00:07:38.379 --> 00:07:42.199 the Sierra Club. I wanted to speak about the coming 00:07:42.209 --> 00:07:44.540 Winter. And I understand from your announcement, there's 00:07:44.548 --> 00:07:48.619 actually going to be a chance to discuss this further 00:07:48.629 --> 00:07:52.000 on the 20th, so I'll be very brief. I think we all 00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:57.389 saw on October 2nd. ERCOT has a concern about reliability 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:03.079 and the higher risk for EEA 1, 2 and 3 based on 00:08:03.088 --> 00:08:06.470 probability analysis they did. And so they've called 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.769 for 3000 megawatts outside of the normal market structure. 00:08:10.009 --> 00:08:12.079 I just want to mention this could be very expensive 00:08:12.088 --> 00:08:16.988 to consumers. And their main solution bringing back 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.709 mothballed and shuttered plants. From Sierra Club's 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:23.790 perspective could also be bad for pollution. And just 00:08:23.798 --> 00:08:25.959 want to remind the market that you do need to have 00:08:25.970 --> 00:08:29.298 an operating permit with TCEQ. If you're going to come 00:08:29.309 --> 00:08:33.700 back, so I think we should factor that in. And we hope 00:08:33.710 --> 00:08:36.649 that on the 20th, in addition to looking at the RFP 00:08:36.750 --> 00:08:39.820 itself. We can have a more general discussion about 00:08:39.830 --> 00:08:45.099 this policy. And whether 10% is the right risk level 00:08:45.109 --> 00:08:48.340 for an event that only would occur if we had a Winter 00:08:48.349 --> 00:08:52.259 Storm Elliott type situation. And then we hope we continue 00:08:52.269 --> 00:08:56.048 to look at other options that we have. At the same 00:08:56.058 --> 00:08:59.619 time they're asking for an RFP for this 3000 megawatts. 00:08:59.629 --> 00:09:04.450 They're also doing their ERS Winter program. We can always 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:09.408 expand ERS probably for a cheaper amount than this proposal. 00:09:09.538 --> 00:09:13.710 And then just a reminder, as you know. The EE and DR utility 00:09:13.719 --> 00:09:17.200 programs are another way to expand the use of demand 00:09:17.210 --> 00:09:20.750 response and energy efficiency. I was pleased to see 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.479 CenterPoint Energy, my good friends at CenterPoint 00:09:24.489 --> 00:09:29.359 Energy. Discuss their plans to change their Summer peak 00:09:29.418 --> 00:09:33.279 demand response program to 24/7 Winter program. Those 00:09:33.288 --> 00:09:35.548 are the kind of programs that we think would be cheaper 00:09:35.830 --> 00:09:39.989 and better for the market versus ERCOT's proposed approach. 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:43.009 And with that, I'll be quiet. But I look forward to 00:09:43.019 --> 00:09:45.440 participating in the hearing on the 20th. And hoping, 00:09:45.450 --> 00:09:48.389 hoping it's a broader discussion than just the RFP 00:09:48.408 --> 00:09:50.340 itself. Thank you for your comments. 00:09:54.109 --> 00:09:57.808 Thank you. Next up, Mr. Carter if you're here. Would you please 00:09:57.820 --> 00:10:00.639 come up and state your name and organization for the 00:10:00.649 --> 00:10:03.058 record? 00:10:04.918 --> 00:10:08.989 (item:14:David Carter, citizen speaking on SB2627 implementation by PUC Project 54997) David Carter representing myself and perhaps a few 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.950 other users of electricity. Uh I was here like a couple 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:16.719 of weeks ago and I introduced some of these thoughts. 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:20.729 But since then I have gone online and from your website. 00:10:21.250 --> 00:10:29.239 As part of this uh SB2627 implementation by PUC 00:10:29.298 --> 00:10:37.109 Project 54997. I uh I looked at the tasking on your 00:10:37.119 --> 00:10:40.700 website. The Texas Education Fund would provide funding 00:10:40.710 --> 00:10:45.038 opportunities for electrical generation projects. And, 00:10:46.389 --> 00:10:49.029 and the PUC is tasked to come up with a plan of 00:10:49.038 --> 00:10:51.408 how to do that, the application process. And how the 00:10:51.418 --> 00:10:55.080 loans would be awarded. And it says here, uh 00:10:56.678 --> 00:11:00.399 entities may apply for a loan to finance upgrades to 00:11:00.408 --> 00:11:04.019 existing dispatchable electric generating facilities. 00:11:04.479 --> 00:11:08.320 Or finance the construction of new electric generating 00:11:08.330 --> 00:11:11.658 facilities. The reason I went to the hearing last May 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:15.399 in the House State Affairs Committee on this Bill. Was 00:11:15.408 --> 00:11:18.599 because I was concerned from the previous Summers notice 00:11:18.609 --> 00:11:20.940 to conserve, because we're about to run out of energy. 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.460 And they, they got my attention. My visceral reaction 00:11:24.469 --> 00:11:27.590 was don't tell me to conserve, crank it up and try 00:11:27.599 --> 00:11:30.899 and generate more electricity. And so I've, I've 00:11:30.908 --> 00:11:33.639 been schooled by listening to other people who know 00:11:33.649 --> 00:11:37.408 what they're talking about. About the different categories 00:11:37.418 --> 00:11:40.908 of, of uh electrical generating facilities. You've 00:11:40.918 --> 00:11:43.658 got the dispatchable can be brought online within 10 00:11:43.668 --> 00:11:46.298 minutes. Those that are already generating regularly 00:11:46.570 --> 00:11:49.149 and then you've got peak demand. And I think the peak 00:11:49.158 --> 00:11:52.190 demand is what was basically killed by deregulation 00:11:52.548 --> 00:11:55.869 back around the year 2000. Commissioner Cobos and 00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:58.019 I had a brief discussion. We weren't able to go into 00:11:58.029 --> 00:12:01.548 the details. But that's the, the framework that I'm 00:12:01.558 --> 00:12:04.950 addressing is. I'm, I'm concerned that this Bill the 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:10.369 way it's crafted. May not even address uh fixing 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:13.519 the funding mechanism for peak Load. Those that only 00:12:13.529 --> 00:12:16.960 are using for a couple of days in July and maybe a 00:12:16.969 --> 00:12:20.308 couple of weeks in January or February. So that's the 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.250 introduction of what I've handed each, each of you 00:12:22.259 --> 00:12:27.058 have a copy of this email traffic. David, uh Roberts 00:12:27.070 --> 00:12:31.808 uh David, David Garden as the Executive Counsel in charge of 00:12:31.820 --> 00:12:36.928 this particular Project 55997. And he's been very kind 00:12:36.940 --> 00:12:41.619 to include my comments into the record. Public Comments 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:44.808 are due by tomorrow at 3 o'clock. And the last 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:49.408 thing I'd like to just ask. Is uh what about uh it 00:12:49.418 --> 00:12:54.200 says here. New or refurbished plants, how about plants 00:12:54.210 --> 00:12:58.340 that are mothballed or decommissioned. The facilities 00:12:58.349 --> 00:13:00.570 are there, the infrastructure is there. The concrete 00:13:00.580 --> 00:13:04.710 and steel and all the the turbines or whatever to generate 00:13:04.719 --> 00:13:07.090 electricity are there. But they're not being used because 00:13:07.099 --> 00:13:10.009 they were probably powered by coal. And the distortion 00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:13.960 of the market by wind and solar. Has uh forced those 00:13:13.989 --> 00:13:18.029 plants to be taken offline in favor of the cleaner 00:13:18.119 --> 00:13:22.239 wind and solar. Which is by definition to a citizen 00:13:22.250 --> 00:13:26.369 unreliable. And so I just want to ask a question, make 00:13:26.379 --> 00:13:28.658 sure y'all, you know, make sure you ask questions 00:13:28.668 --> 00:13:31.479 about. What about mothballed and decommissioned? Will 00:13:31.489 --> 00:13:34.428 there need to be a change to the, to the Legislation 00:13:34.849 --> 00:13:37.798 to cover those? Mr. Carter, your three minutes is up. Okay. Thank you 00:13:37.808 --> 00:13:40.960 very much for the opportunity. Thank you for your comments. 00:13:42.479 --> 00:13:46.649 This complete Item No. 14. I don't have anything 00:13:46.658 --> 00:13:52.119 on Items 15 or 16. (item:17:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project No. 52373) Next up is Item No. 17, Project 00:13:52.129 --> 00:13:57.048 No. 52373. This is the Commission's review of the 00:13:57.058 --> 00:13:59.960 wholesale electric market design. Shelah, do we have 00:13:59.969 --> 00:14:02.570 anyone from the public signed up to speak on Item (item:17:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No. 00:14:02.580 --> 00:14:08.820 17. No, ma'am. PURA 35.004(g) requires a review of 00:14:08.859 --> 00:14:12.330 Ancillary services in the ERCOT Power region. Thomas, 00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:15.558 do you have an update? (item:17:Thomas Gleeson, PUC Executive Director gives introduction on Commission Staff's ancillary) Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Madam 00:14:15.570 --> 00:14:19.619 Chair. So in response to Commissioner Glotfelty's questions 00:14:19.629 --> 00:14:22.769 last Open Meeting. Staff had scheduled a meeting with 00:14:22.779 --> 00:14:25.710 the market monitor and ERCOT to discuss the Ancillary 00:14:25.940 --> 00:14:29.298 services study. Market and Connie led that effort. So 00:14:29.308 --> 00:14:31.190 I'm going to turn over to them and let them give you 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.418 an update on the details. The scope, the schedule around 00:14:34.428 --> 00:14:38.200 that ancillary services study. (item:17:Connie Corona with Commission Staff on ancillary services meeting) So good morning, Commissioners. 00:14:38.229 --> 00:14:41.109 As you're all aware. It is the time of the year when 00:14:41.119 --> 00:14:44.950 we perform the annual methodology evaluation for Ancillary 00:14:45.219 --> 00:14:49.889 services. Um So once that is complete, we will begin 00:14:49.899 --> 00:14:55.529 the uh 35.004 study in earnest and collaboration. 00:14:55.548 --> 00:14:59.408 Commission Staff and, and ERCOT, um along with the 00:14:59.418 --> 00:15:04.019 IMM. To the extent that um that they have some suggestions 00:15:04.029 --> 00:15:06.678 and recommendations about how to conduct the study. 00:15:06.950 --> 00:15:12.830 We'll be doing that over beginning around the first 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:17.649 of the year and anticipate it will be complete by September 00:15:17.658 --> 00:15:22.000 1. So that we can consider it in next year's annual 00:15:22.009 --> 00:15:26.479 methodology evaluation. And should you all draw any 00:15:26.489 --> 00:15:30.750 potential Legislative recommendations or something 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:34.428 of that nature from the study. We'll have plenty of time 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.288 to put those in our agency report. 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:46.830 (item:17:Commissioner McAdams thoughts on Ancillary services meeting) Madam Chair, may I? Okay. As things stand, the procedures 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.308 for Ancillary service methodologies aren't subject 00:15:49.678 --> 00:15:53.500 to Commission approval. I want that highlighted. Um 00:15:54.349 --> 00:15:58.479 I would direct ERCOT to file a revision request to 00:15:58.489 --> 00:16:02.960 change this process. And the lawyers can argue about 00:16:02.969 --> 00:16:08.090 what direct means in this context. Because they, they 00:16:08.099 --> 00:16:11.080 can start the process of a revision request. I'm not 00:16:11.090 --> 00:16:13.739 telling them exactly what to do. I'm saying that it 00:16:13.750 --> 00:16:18.070 is appropriate to do this. The AAS methodology should 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.418 go through stakeholders in my view. Get Board approval 00:16:21.609 --> 00:16:24.408 and then come back here to the Public Utility Commission 00:16:24.418 --> 00:16:27.908 of Texas for final approval. If necessary, I would ask 00:16:27.918 --> 00:16:31.769 ERCOT Staff to expedite the process. So we have that 00:16:31.779 --> 00:16:35.190 revision request at an open meeting before the Summer 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.379 of 2024. And that the Commission would have a timely, 00:16:38.389 --> 00:16:42.129 would be able to timely consider it for final approval 00:16:42.168 --> 00:16:46.229 for next year's AAS methodology. I think the magnitude 00:16:46.239 --> 00:16:49.058 of the impact of ancillaries, especially in light of 00:16:49.070 --> 00:16:53.190 the statutory construct of House Bill 1500 is very 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.869 real. It is meaningful, it is significant to the market. 00:16:57.509 --> 00:17:02.519 It's significant to the system. It is now a ,it is now 00:17:02.529 --> 00:17:06.489 has strategic implications for everything. Both reliability 00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:10.640 and market design. So that's an appropriate issue for 00:17:10.650 --> 00:17:12.750 this Commission. Welcome any thoughts? 00:17:15.348 --> 00:17:18.630 (item:17:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on ancillary services meeting) Thank you. I appreciate, I appreciate your thoughts. 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.769 And, and I hadn't heard that before. So I'm pleasantly 00:17:22.779 --> 00:17:25.568 surprised and, and agree with what you, what you think. 00:17:26.250 --> 00:17:30.779 The from my perspective, I'm glad we're doing this 00:17:30.789 --> 00:17:33.500 study. Obviously, we're kind of behind doing it but 00:17:33.509 --> 00:17:39.150 we've had a little bit on our plate. We ancillary services 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:42.529 under NERC guidelines. Are to ensure that the transmission 00:17:42.539 --> 00:17:48.400 system remains reliable. It's not a capacity market 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:52.809 it's not a mechanism to pay people just to be around. 00:17:53.618 --> 00:17:57.140 So, understanding that as we move into these different 00:17:57.150 --> 00:17:59.890 market design things. I think it's great to get this 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:05.828 tee off. And I would suggest that a, that Commissioner 00:18:05.838 --> 00:18:09.219 McAdam's proposal seems perfectly in line with where 00:18:09.229 --> 00:18:11.709 we ought to go. And I would support that wholeheartedly. 00:18:13.219 --> 00:18:16.719 (item:17:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on ancillary services meeting) Commissioner McAdams yes, thank you for highlighting that. Yes. 00:18:16.729 --> 00:18:19.098 In fact, the Ancillary service methodology is approved 00:18:19.108 --> 00:18:21.430 by the Board and that's where the buck stops. That's 00:18:21.439 --> 00:18:26.380 historically been the process at ERCOT. Um given the 00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:30.969 new chapter and of, you know, market redesign and changes 00:18:30.979 --> 00:18:33.539 that we're experiencing in the market. I think it is 00:18:33.868 --> 00:18:38.439 um prudent and, and diligent from a regulatory oversight 00:18:38.449 --> 00:18:44.160 perspective. That we have a role in approving the Ancillary 00:18:44.170 --> 00:18:46.618 service methodology. Because not only does it have an 00:18:46.630 --> 00:18:49.890 impact on reliability, but it, as you highlighted Commissioner 00:18:49.900 --> 00:18:53.608 McAdams. It has a tremendous impact on consumers and 00:18:53.618 --> 00:18:57.250 the Load serving entities that are providing services 00:18:57.259 --> 00:19:00.180 to those consumers. So, um our mission here at ERCOT 00:19:00.189 --> 00:19:03.799 is to protect the consumers. And so we, we must 00:19:03.809 --> 00:19:06.939 ensure that through our regulatory oversight over ERCOT. 00:19:06.949 --> 00:19:09.539 that we are um exercising our due diligence. And so 00:19:09.549 --> 00:19:14.108 I would support a uh protocol framework, um protocols 00:19:14.118 --> 00:19:16.630 introduced into the process. To establish a framework 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.559 where the Ancillary service methodology would be approved 00:19:18.568 --> 00:19:20.039 by the PUC after Board approval. 00:19:24.769 --> 00:19:27.680 All right, everyone's looking at me. This is. I was 00:19:27.709 --> 00:19:31.430 looking at Smeltzer. Um, 00:19:34.009 --> 00:19:36.848 one way to discuss this is to have this discussion 00:19:36.858 --> 00:19:39.789 out here. We could also recess for perhaps Staff to 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:42.630 have an individual conversation with the offices about 00:19:42.729 --> 00:19:46.229 the procedure for this potential directive. Are you 00:19:46.239 --> 00:19:49.328 concerned about 1500 and a directive to ERCOT? Well, I 00:19:49.338 --> 00:19:51.068 mean, we could do it by rule and, and just house it 00:19:51.078 --> 00:19:54.920 here our approval. Like I said, I'm not issuing any 00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:59.868 specific direction to ERCOT. Just that they need to 00:20:00.009 --> 00:20:03.809 open up a protocol. I'm not telling them how to, I'm 00:20:03.818 --> 00:20:06.049 not going to introduce some army terms here. But 00:20:07.588 --> 00:20:09.949 I'm not telling them how to create the mousetrap. I'm 00:20:09.959 --> 00:20:13.160 saying you need to build a mousetrap, right? So what 00:20:13.170 --> 00:20:15.930 I would suggest is that we take a recess at some point 00:20:16.009 --> 00:20:18.900 during a meeting. Let's let's put this aside, have 00:20:18.910 --> 00:20:21.880 a recess. Allow us to talk to each of the offices about 00:20:21.930 --> 00:20:25.674 the procedure for this and, and then discuss it back 00:20:25.684 --> 00:20:27.594 in the open meeting. Do you want to address multiple topics? Because 00:20:27.604 --> 00:20:29.654 Commissioner Glotfelty has a memo that may introduce 00:20:29.664 --> 00:20:31.693 some other conversation that you'll need to talk through. 00:20:32.364 --> 00:20:34.884 So maybe we'll bring that, maybe we'll take that discussion 00:20:34.894 --> 00:20:38.594 up when we bring that, that particular item up. But 00:20:38.604 --> 00:20:41.094 for efficiency, if we believe there's going to be multiple 00:20:41.104 --> 00:20:44.265 recesses. Multiple recess initiating events. We can 00:20:44.314 --> 00:20:47.634 combine them. We can do those all at once. It may be appropriate. 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:52.078 Madam Chair, what do you think we have? Okay. We have Harika. (item:17:Harika Basaran with Commission Staff on ancillary services meeting) Yeah, this is Harika 00:20:52.689 --> 00:20:57.549 with Market Analysis. ERCOT already started an initiative 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.348 to look all the other binding documents and move them 00:21:00.358 --> 00:21:04.209 in the protocols. So that wouldn't be a new directive 00:21:04.219 --> 00:21:07.630 it's already there. And we have been talking with them 00:21:08.078 --> 00:21:11.949 when it's gonna happen. So I don't know how this impacts 00:21:11.959 --> 00:21:16.618 Shelah's? So, so maybe I think there's, I think 00:21:16.630 --> 00:21:20.519 she's pointing to an easy solution. In how legally this 00:21:20.529 --> 00:21:23.989 match pairs with the intent of the law and our existing 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.348 interim procedures. And so I'm happy to readdress. 00:21:28.358 --> 00:21:31.380 If we come back that way, there's comfort on how this 00:21:31.390 --> 00:21:34.689 will proceed. But I think there's a path forward and 00:21:34.699 --> 00:21:37.180 I think Harika is pointing to it right now. (item:17:Commissioner Cobos follow-up on ancillary services meeting) Well, I think 00:21:37.189 --> 00:21:39.368 there's two options, there's potentially that option 00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:42.500 from Harika and then the option if you really wanted 00:21:42.670 --> 00:21:45.189 you know, because I have a feeling you'll have 1500 00:21:45.199 --> 00:21:49.000 concerns and you want a PUC engaged. And if you really 00:21:49.009 --> 00:21:50.979 want that, then you can put in a rule. 00:21:52.539 --> 00:21:55.130 I don't care how we get there. If this is a rule 00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:58.400 I'm good with that, but this will happen. (item:17:David Smeltzer, PUC Director of Rules & Projects on ancillary services meeting) Okay. So another 00:21:58.410 --> 00:22:02.088 suggestion that I might have. Is I, I would want to 00:22:02.098 --> 00:22:05.949 look into the, the project that Harika's talking about. 00:22:06.049 --> 00:22:09.729 And so Commission Staff can do its homework on this. 00:22:09.739 --> 00:22:13.750 And if we believe that HB1500 is implicated, we can 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:16.140 file a proposed directive for you for consideration 00:22:16.150 --> 00:22:20.199 at a future at the next open meeting. If it's determined 00:22:20.209 --> 00:22:22.650 that that would be, if we would recommend that that's 00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:25.549 necessary. So that we can just cross all the t's, dot all 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:31.328 the i's. And it will happen initiative that you're saying 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:36.118 we can make sure it's all. Okay, Connie? (item:17:Connie Corona's follow-up on ancillary services meeting) So, so what 00:22:36.130 --> 00:22:45.900 I'm hearing is from the Commission. A general um agreement 00:22:45.910 --> 00:22:50.189 on policy that they would like to look at this methodology 00:22:50.338 --> 00:22:53.588 and there are several procedural avenues. Perhaps Staff 00:22:53.598 --> 00:22:56.140 can report next to you as David suggested at the next 00:22:56.150 --> 00:23:02.368 open meeting. On the optimal procedure to get that accomplished. 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:07.039 Is that? By next Summer? Yes ma'am. Could we, could we invite Woody 00:23:07.049 --> 00:23:11.400 Rickerson or Woody up. Just to make sure that this does 00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:16.699 not hang up ERCOT's processes and timelines. Because 00:23:16.709 --> 00:23:18.939 ultimately they, they will have to manage the system. 00:23:19.779 --> 00:23:22.130 Woody, for the record please sir. (item:17:Woody Rickerson, ERCOT on ancillary services meeting) Woody Rickerson with 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:27.578 ERCOT. So the AAS methodology study is an engineering 00:23:27.588 --> 00:23:28.229 study. 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.078 That determines products that are needed to maintain 00:23:34.088 --> 00:23:34.759 reliability. 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:42.689 So it is a, it establishes a framework of things, products 00:23:43.368 --> 00:23:47.759 that are needed. Now, how much you buy of those products 00:23:48.489 --> 00:23:53.588 is a, is a function of conservative operations. It's 00:23:53.598 --> 00:23:57.108 a product of what directions that we've been given. 00:23:57.910 --> 00:24:05.170 So, approval of the methodology itself is an approval 00:24:05.180 --> 00:24:09.640 of a study that looks at what's needed. So I'm not 00:24:09.650 --> 00:24:13.229 for sure the, the changes that you would make to a 00:24:13.239 --> 00:24:17.059 study that says what's needed versus how much you buy 00:24:17.068 --> 00:24:19.239 of each of the individual products. (item:17:Commissioner McAdams on ERCOT's role in the ancillary services meeting) So, so what I, 00:24:19.250 --> 00:24:22.328 what I would propose is the intent of my suggestion. 00:24:22.709 --> 00:24:29.920 Is the scale and use cases for which ERCOT promotes 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:33.759 the market upon which they will use the ancillaries. 00:24:33.769 --> 00:24:37.318 So that there is certainty there, more certainty. Now 00:24:37.328 --> 00:24:41.309 again, you're the operator, you may deviate under exigent 00:24:41.318 --> 00:24:44.689 circumstances, certainly. But some type of framework 00:24:44.699 --> 00:24:47.469 on how the ancillaries will be used. So that we can 00:24:48.068 --> 00:24:51.250 help provide guidance to the market and certainty for 00:24:51.259 --> 00:24:54.088 which everything else revolves around it because it's 00:24:54.098 --> 00:24:59.949 it's now a a key part of the market. The uses and 00:24:59.959 --> 00:25:02.469 magnitude of the Ancillary procurement. And that's 00:25:02.479 --> 00:25:06.269 what we need to define and especially for the purposes 00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:09.479 of next Summer. Since it was a key tool that we were 00:25:09.489 --> 00:25:12.838 able to manage through tight conditions in that Summer 00:25:12.848 --> 00:25:15.640 season. I realize this Winter season is a, is a different 00:25:15.650 --> 00:25:18.170 animal. It's, it's here upon us and we'll speak to 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.979 that more later. But the Summer is going to be key. 00:25:21.229 --> 00:25:23.838 I just want to point out though that the AAS study 00:25:23.848 --> 00:25:25.739 that we're working with market participants on right 00:25:25.750 --> 00:25:29.219 now. That will be done by the end of the year. Is 00:25:29.229 --> 00:25:32.900 a engineering study that says these are the tools that 00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:37.019 are needed. How much you buy those is more of a policy. 00:25:37.180 --> 00:25:39.880 It is certainly a policy and that's what the statute 00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:43.650 directs us to affirm and that's what we're, we take 00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:47.289 that next step. And all I'm saying is the protocols 00:25:47.299 --> 00:25:50.489 which will result from that need to be accomplished 00:25:50.539 --> 00:25:51.689 before the next Summer. 00:25:53.209 --> 00:25:55.469 Yes, sir. We'll, we'll bring a recommendation to the 00:25:55.479 --> 00:25:58.509 next step of meeting about how to accomplish this. 00:26:00.239 --> 00:26:02.469 (item:17:Chairwoman Jackson's thoughts on ancillary services meeting) Okay. So what I'm hearing. Is that you're gonna go back 00:26:02.479 --> 00:26:06.689 you're gonna kind of take a look at the um most appropriate 00:26:06.699 --> 00:26:11.479 mechanism to um to, to consider. To kind of move forward 00:26:11.489 --> 00:26:14.189 and achieve what we've been talking about here. Yes 00:26:14.199 --> 00:26:17.348 ma'am. Okay. Woody, are you okay? 00:26:19.229 --> 00:26:21.709 Rebecca, are you okay? For, for the record. 00:26:23.789 --> 00:26:26.368 Rebecca Zerwas for ERCOT. I think we can work 00:26:26.380 --> 00:26:28.858 with Staff for the next open meeting. To figure out 00:26:28.868 --> 00:26:31.529 the best path forward. Whether that is a protocol change 00:26:31.539 --> 00:26:34.118 or a rule change. And figure out, I know I see a 00:26:34.130 --> 00:26:36.500 lot of Staff, but I'm sympathetic to that because I've 00:26:36.509 --> 00:26:39.559 been there. Trying to figure out on the fly this procedure. 00:26:39.568 --> 00:26:41.259 And I think we can all work together with our legal 00:26:41.269 --> 00:26:43.219 and your Staff. To figure out the best path forward. 00:26:43.229 --> 00:26:47.078 I do too. Okay. Thank you. Sounds good. 00:26:50.348 --> 00:26:53.949 All right. So there's no vote. There's, we're just going 00:26:53.959 --> 00:26:55.489 to wait for them to come back. We're going to wait 00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:59.630 for them to come back. Jimmy's ready to vote on something. And tell us the best path forward. 00:27:00.318 --> 00:27:04.328 Okay. So I don't have anything on Item 18 or 19. (item:20:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project No. 54445) Next up 00:27:04.338 --> 00:27:09.009 is Item No. 20, Project No. 54445. This is 00:27:09.019 --> 00:27:11.630 the Commission's project for calendar year 2023's 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.189 review of rules adopted by the independent organization. 00:27:15.199 --> 00:27:17.390 Shelah, do we have anyone from the public signed up 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.799 to speak on Item No. 20? (item:20:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms sign-ups for Public Comments) No, ma'am. Commission Staff 00:27:21.809 --> 00:27:26.118 filed a memo. Recommending approval of 29 revision request. 00:27:26.439 --> 00:27:28.769 I would agree with Staff's recommendation and approve 00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:31.539 the proposed order. Commissioner Glotfelty, you filed 00:27:31.549 --> 00:27:34.318 a memo. Would you like to lay out your memo? (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty lays out his memo) I would. 00:27:34.789 --> 00:27:38.618 This is the first of its kind probably not the last. 00:27:39.660 --> 00:27:44.979 We have this new process where we are approving protocols. 00:27:45.588 --> 00:27:47.709 Even protocols that we order to be changed, we have 00:27:47.719 --> 00:27:48.818 to come back and approve. 00:27:51.118 --> 00:27:54.838 I don't feel like we get the benefit of the discussion 00:27:55.250 --> 00:27:59.818 when these protocols are being approved. We can go 00:27:59.828 --> 00:28:04.108 back and read. I do accept that and I have done that. 00:28:04.549 --> 00:28:06.868 But there are a lot of policy issues in here that I 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:12.160 think rise to the Commission level that we should take 00:28:12.170 --> 00:28:15.979 a position on when these protocol changes come up. 00:28:16.229 --> 00:28:20.039 And I also think that there has been some 00:28:21.969 --> 00:28:26.078 shyness to speak your mind in the ERCOT Committee process 00:28:26.439 --> 00:28:33.618 as a result of feared backlash. And I want everybody 00:28:33.630 --> 00:28:37.729 in the market to know that these protocol changes while 00:28:37.739 --> 00:28:39.449 they're going through the ERCOT process do have to 00:28:39.459 --> 00:28:45.670 be approved by us. And with that I laid out this was 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.588 this is not intended to be confrontational. This is 00:28:48.598 --> 00:28:53.949 intended to ask questions about NPRR changes and other 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:59.029 document changes that I have. And, and they happen to 00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.469 be all nine of these or 10 of these. However many there 00:29:01.479 --> 00:29:04.338 are in one docket, because we got 29 of them together. 00:29:04.539 --> 00:29:08.430 So if, if we want to suggest a modification on how 00:29:08.439 --> 00:29:12.170 we do that. I'm, I'm open to that. I'm open to having 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.750 more discussions about these as we go forward. But 00:29:16.439 --> 00:29:21.368 before I ask Woody to come up is. I'm happy to speak 00:29:21.380 --> 00:29:23.900 with you all about this or if you want me to go 00:29:23.910 --> 00:29:26.699 in and talk with Woody, I'm happy to do so. I know 00:29:26.709 --> 00:29:32.299 you had some questions and then. I do so. For the, for 00:29:32.309 --> 00:29:37.420 those watching and listening. My, my memo 00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:43.219 effectively asks questions about nine different protocol 00:29:43.229 --> 00:29:47.890 changes. That are happening that have been approved 00:29:47.900 --> 00:29:51.098 by the ERCOT stakeholder process as well as the ERCOT 00:29:51.108 --> 00:29:55.890 Board. They're coming to us for approval. Once we approve 00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:59.108 them, they become implemented in binding within the 00:29:59.250 --> 00:30:02.880 ERCOT market framework. And some of these I have not 00:30:02.890 --> 00:30:06.019 heard of before. Some of these I have concerns about 00:30:06.088 --> 00:30:08.209 and some of them I just want to know the context of. 00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:11.828 And that's why I would like Woody to come up and see 00:30:11.838 --> 00:30:14.759 if, if we can have a discussion about these, about 00:30:14.769 --> 00:30:15.469 these issues? 00:30:19.750 --> 00:30:21.029 Woody? Woody, would you come up? 00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:27.769 I just like to say Madam Chair this was a good memo. 00:30:28.309 --> 00:30:32.719 Um I, I appreciated it and uh the discussions. Good 00:30:32.729 --> 00:30:33.160 to have. 00:30:36.029 --> 00:30:39.618 Thank you, Commissioner. I don't know if you want me 00:30:39.630 --> 00:30:45.219 to go through each question or I'm, I'm happy to, but 00:30:45.229 --> 00:30:50.140 I'd like to start at NPRR1165. There was a component 00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:54.449 in here in one of the documents that we reviewed. That 00:30:54.459 --> 00:30:58.959 said that, that this will strengthen the market and 00:30:58.969 --> 00:31:01.729 thus competitors in the market and market entry as 00:31:01.739 --> 00:31:06.368 opposed to reduced market entry. I, I to me it seemed 00:31:06.380 --> 00:31:09.769 backwards to that. Um So I was just trying to understand 00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:13.299 and get some context around this NPRR a little bit 00:31:13.309 --> 00:31:16.150 more. So I could understand it more in the market context. 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:23.430 Okay. (item:20:Woody Rickerson, ERCOT responds to Commissioner Glotfelty's questions) Woody Rickerson, ERCOT. So part of your 00:31:23.439 --> 00:31:26.920 question was. Is this an extended part of an extended 00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:31.729 group of NPRR and it is. For NPRR1112 and 00:31:31.739 --> 00:31:35.828 1165. They both kind of came out of the problems with 00:31:35.838 --> 00:31:36.289 Uri. 00:31:37.930 --> 00:31:42.059 So 1165 is a follow up to 1112. And it 00:31:42.068 --> 00:31:45.809 introduces the elimination of unsecured credit. Um 00:31:46.348 --> 00:31:50.650 1165 specifically focuses on the elimination of a 00:31:50.660 --> 00:31:52.059 parental guarantee. 00:31:53.588 --> 00:31:57.098 So unsecured credit is, you know, obviously we wanted. 00:31:57.108 --> 00:31:59.890 That, that was already passed ineffective as collateral. 00:32:00.430 --> 00:32:01.009 Um 00:32:02.598 --> 00:32:05.618 unsecured collateral from a parent is cheaper than 00:32:05.630 --> 00:32:06.618 secured credit. 00:32:08.229 --> 00:32:10.789 But the unsecured nature of the collateral imposes 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:14.209 more risk for the rest of the market. So your original 00:32:14.219 --> 00:32:17.358 question was, will this strengthen the market? I think 00:32:17.368 --> 00:32:21.489 it does. Because every market participant is treated 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:25.529 the same. Because there's not the allowance of the unsecured 00:32:25.539 --> 00:32:29.368 parental credit. Your second part of your question 00:32:29.380 --> 00:32:34.250 will reduce market entry? Potentially. But the market 00:32:34.259 --> 00:32:37.549 entry that it would reduce could be problematic to 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.848 have the market to begin with. Okay. 00:32:41.509 --> 00:32:46.170 And this process that, that helps answer my question 00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:47.868 on, on this NPRR. Thank you. 00:32:49.618 --> 00:32:52.568 I would like to say that, see all of these are not 00:32:52.578 --> 00:32:56.250 confrontational there. Some of this is context that 00:32:56.259 --> 00:32:59.608 we don't get as part of this. And it's important to 00:32:59.618 --> 00:32:59.930 me. 00:33:01.650 --> 00:33:10.699 (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's question to ERCOT) Number 2 is NPRR1171, No. 250 RRGRR035. This 00:33:10.709 --> 00:33:13.848 the questions. Can you confirm that these modifications 00:33:13.858 --> 00:33:16.900 allow distributor resources including storage. To interconnect 00:33:16.910 --> 00:33:19.880 on circuits that are currently any utility Load shed 00:33:19.890 --> 00:33:22.250 plants? This was obviously an important issue that 00:33:22.309 --> 00:33:24.858 Commissioner McAdams and I, and, and the rest of the 00:33:24.868 --> 00:33:29.368 Commission. We're discussing with distributed resources 00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:32.368 storage. Interconnected at the distribution voltage. 00:33:32.949 --> 00:33:36.209 And I'd just like to get your understanding that that 00:33:36.219 --> 00:33:40.469 is the case. This does allow that to go forward. And 00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:43.598 if you could answer that, that would be great. (item:20:Woody Rickerson follows up to Commissioner Glotfelty's question) So I 00:33:43.608 --> 00:33:47.680 can confirm that this, this NPRR does allow DGRs 00:33:47.699 --> 00:33:52.180 and DESRs. Energy storage at the distribution level to 00:33:52.189 --> 00:33:57.019 be on loaded circuits. Okay. The other questions were. 00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:01.019 (item:20:Commissioner McAdams' question to ERCOT) We but not um 00:34:03.088 --> 00:34:07.009 not. How do they operate in ancillaries under the context 00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:09.889 of that policy change? (item:20:Woody Rickerson's response to Commissioner McAdam's question) So certain Ancillary services 00:34:09.898 --> 00:34:14.019 are still allowed. Not stand cool, the others are still under review. 00:34:15.878 --> 00:34:19.128 Right now, the other ones aren't. I mean there are some that 00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:24.489 when a TSP is asked to shed Load. If a DGR providing 00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.628 Nonspin is already providing that Nonspin. It would 00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:29.208 have already been deployed. It would have already been 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:33.110 deployed because we're in Load shed. And the TSP is 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:37.309 required to shed a net amount of Load. And so we still 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.128 get the Load shed we need and it's accounted for the 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:41.478 energy is already accounted for. 00:34:43.289 --> 00:34:44.449 Okay. Okay. 00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:52.159 (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's additional question to Woody Rickerson) Um I, I think the, the last question on this. Was might 00:34:52.168 --> 00:34:54.378 this include a requirement for TDUs that reclosing 00:34:54.398 --> 00:34:56.639 be installed on lines that have DG resources? Is that 00:34:56.648 --> 00:34:59.360 something that you all discuss? Where does that get 00:34:59.369 --> 00:35:02.679 discussed? It might not be appropriate in this NPRR 00:35:02.688 --> 00:35:06.090 modification. But where is that discussed in this, 00:35:06.099 --> 00:35:10.938 in this effort? (item:20:ERCOT's follow-up to Commissioner Glotfelty's question) So it does not require 00:35:12.869 --> 00:35:14.739 TSPs to install anything on our distribution system. 00:35:14.750 --> 00:35:19.320 That's not something ERCOT has purview over the distribution 00:35:19.329 --> 00:35:22.780 system. So we're not requiring section or reclosing 00:35:22.789 --> 00:35:26.519 or changes to the distribution system. Um There is 00:35:26.530 --> 00:35:29.030 some language that talks about reclosing but it's not 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:29.860 a requirement. 00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:34.969 So, so. As we continue in our sectional study, you all 00:35:34.978 --> 00:35:40.208 do. And the discussion of how these Load shed programs 00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:42.030 are going to work at the distribution voltage or the 00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:45.769 distribution level. Those can be considered and will 00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:49.789 be considered. As how best to achieve that Load shed 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:53.168 number while keeping the most megawatts online. That's 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:57.188 right. Additional section of distribution would change 00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.739 the total amount of Load that could be rotated. And 00:36:00.750 --> 00:36:03.128 that's where it would roll up into the ERCOT process. 00:36:03.369 --> 00:36:06.030 And that's the goal, that's the goal is I think right 00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:08.250 now. And, but we talked about this with the reliability 00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:10.349 standards study as well. As far as when you're thinking 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.898 about the magnitude of the uh is one of the legs of 00:36:15.909 --> 00:36:19.539 that study. You know, it's around 14,000 megawatts 00:36:19.550 --> 00:36:22.679 that can be rotated. Now, additional section could 00:36:23.878 --> 00:36:24.949 increase that number. 00:36:28.219 --> 00:36:32.280 Anybody else on that one, should I keep going? (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's question to ERCOT on NPRR1175) NPRR 00:36:32.289 --> 00:36:34.199 1175. 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:40.389 This was, this was just a first blush. As I've told 00:36:40.398 --> 00:36:43.659 you on the phone Woody. I, I get nervous when our 00:36:43.708 --> 00:36:46.929 when the markets around the country retain all the 00:36:46.938 --> 00:36:49.478 authority and get to make all the decisions on certain 00:36:49.489 --> 00:36:54.119 things. But, and I know some of this is y'all's responsibility. 00:36:54.128 --> 00:36:56.449 But I wrote this NPRR seems to give a lot of 00:36:56.458 --> 00:36:59.168 authority to ERCOT. About what they can exclude and 00:36:59.550 --> 00:37:02.769 when they can expel or exclude market participants. 00:37:02.780 --> 00:37:05.139 And can decide what's risky and what's not. Are there 00:37:05.148 --> 00:37:08.090 guidelines as part of this NPRR that show the market 00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:09.820 the types of things that might affect their ability 00:37:09.829 --> 00:37:11.239 to participate in this market. 00:37:13.610 --> 00:37:18.699 Again, I'd just like you to answer that. And then give 00:37:18.708 --> 00:37:22.829 me your thoughts on that. So yes. (item:20:Woody Rickerson's thoughts on Commissioner Glotfelty's question) Um as part of the 00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:29.239 NPRR Section 16. 211, Paragraph 2. Has 5 paragraphs 00:37:29.250 --> 00:37:33.510 that outline what market participants can expect. I 00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:36.489 can go over those if you want me to. But there are 00:37:36.500 --> 00:37:39.188 5 sections in there that talk about different things. 00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:43.619 That could be used or will be used that they need to 00:37:43.628 --> 00:37:47.510 be aware of. So you all that, that's the universe of 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:52.860 of um guideline that you all use to make that decision? That's right. 00:37:53.148 --> 00:37:56.300 This is the queasy background check process under that 00:37:56.309 --> 00:38:00.389 process or it's laid out. Here are the 5 areas that 00:38:00.398 --> 00:38:03.530 we're looking at. Okay. And y'all feel comfortable 00:38:03.539 --> 00:38:06.360 that that's the right number with this NPRR modification? 00:38:06.418 --> 00:38:08.340 I think there were several things that have happened. 00:38:08.349 --> 00:38:10.320 The blue hat default and PJM. 00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.188 Some of the other things that have happened, that's 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.539 what brought this about. And I think this is a good 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:18.239 a good safeguard. Okay. 00:38:20.550 --> 00:38:21.378 (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's question on conservative operations) Um 00:38:24.860 --> 00:38:28.570 EEA trigger levels which is NPRR1176. 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:35.208 I just, I've tried to read up on this and, and understand 00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:37.929 it. I don't understand what the impetus for the change 00:38:37.938 --> 00:38:41.378 is. And I don't understand if this is exacerbating 00:38:41.389 --> 00:38:44.949 a conservative operation? If this is codifying a conservative 00:38:44.958 --> 00:38:50.340 operation or how this affects that? And would love to 00:38:50.349 --> 00:38:53.378 just hear your background thoughts on, on this one. 00:38:53.628 --> 00:38:58.929 (item:20:Woody Rickerson's response to Commissioner Glotfelty's question on conservative) So conservative operations are really the the amount 00:38:58.938 --> 00:39:02.610 of reserves that we hold on a daily basis. 00:39:04.289 --> 00:39:07.849 The EEA levels have to do when we get into 00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:11.179 scarcity. So really, this is not part of conservative 00:39:11.188 --> 00:39:14.760 operations at all. This has to do when we get in those 00:39:14.769 --> 00:39:19.878 last, the last area of scarcity. When we get into EEA 00:39:19.889 --> 00:39:25.110 levels. What is and with our changing resource mix. 00:39:26.059 --> 00:39:32.090 In the past 1000 megawatts of synchronous generations 00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:34.340 on the line had a certain amount of inertia. 00:39:35.869 --> 00:39:39.208 We have a changing resource mix now. A lot of that 00:39:39.219 --> 00:39:42.849 1000 megawatts could be made up of inverter based resources. 00:39:42.878 --> 00:39:47.458 And so the inertia level is lower. And so um we have 00:39:47.469 --> 00:39:51.050 done some studies. And we determined that with the changing 00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:53.550 resource mix. The minimum level reserves that must 00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:56.699 be maintained for the single largest contingencies. 00:39:56.708 --> 00:40:00.289 When you get down to that last level, 1000 megawatts 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:04.648 wasn't enough. So 1000 megawatts today with today's 00:40:04.659 --> 00:40:08.489 resource mix doesn't have the inertia. That 1000 megawatts 00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:11.750 had 15 years ago or 10 years ago. Do you think the 00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.409 need for inertia is going to decrease as storage resources 00:40:15.418 --> 00:40:15.909 come on? Yes. 00:40:18.260 --> 00:40:22.978 Is there a uh process to or is this something that you 00:40:22.989 --> 00:40:24.398 all will expect to be 00:40:26.188 --> 00:40:30.728 adapted? (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on inertia) As I mean, I readily accept these are mostly 00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:34.898 engineering studies. We don't want the inertia of our 00:40:34.909 --> 00:40:39.079 system to drop to a point where we have critical reliability 00:40:39.090 --> 00:40:42.500 problems on the system. But I, I will say that it is 00:40:42.510 --> 00:40:50.139 an issue of great engineering research on these systems. 00:40:50.148 --> 00:40:54.079 That have a lot of invertebrates, resources and storage. 00:40:54.090 --> 00:40:57.969 And storage can react quicker than a spinning resource 00:40:57.978 --> 00:41:03.978 can. Right. (item:20:Woody Rickerson's response on inertia) So we looked at um from January 2019 to 00:41:03.989 --> 00:41:05.369 June 2022. 00:41:07.099 --> 00:41:09.860 We looked at the pr when PRC was less than 3000. 00:41:11.300 --> 00:41:13.820 Identified the minimum inertia value during this 00:41:13.829 --> 00:41:18.800 period of 200 gigawatt seconds. Um perform simulations 00:41:18.809 --> 00:41:21.530 for the loss of the largest single unit contingency 00:41:21.909 --> 00:41:26.579 with a 200 gigawatt second system inertia. And we found 00:41:26.590 --> 00:41:31.449 that we needed to maintain 1500 megawatts. To avoid 00:41:31.478 --> 00:41:34.849 potentially dipping into that ULS activation. 00:41:36.579 --> 00:41:40.760 (item:20:Commissioner McAdams' question on ancillary procurement) Does that impact your Ancillary procurement? I was 00:41:40.769 --> 00:41:42.829 just kind of wondering what the second order effects 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:47.148 are of the increase. Not directly, I don't think. (item:20:Woody Rickerson's response on ancillary procurement) But 00:41:47.769 --> 00:41:52.478 what it does is it raises that 1000 Load shed value 00:41:52.489 --> 00:41:56.378 up to 1500 then in order to keep some separation from 00:41:56.389 --> 00:41:59.849 EEA1 to EEA2 to EEA3. So 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.188 that they aren't all stacked on top of each other. 00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:05.648 So there is a period of time between those that raises 00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:11.619 those also. And so EEA1 goes up to 2300 or 00:42:11.628 --> 00:42:19.228 I'm sorry. 2500 EEA2, 2000 and then the 1500 00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.648 for EEA1. The current triggers are EEA1 is 00:42:22.659 --> 00:42:28.510 2300. EEA 2, 1750. EEA3 is 1430, 00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:32.139 then Load sheds at 1000. So this was combined Load 00:42:32.148 --> 00:42:36.750 shed and EEA3. Right. But this is because when 00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.389 you get in that situation, so didn't have anything 00:42:40.398 --> 00:42:43.918 to do with conservative operations. It shouldn't affect 00:42:44.148 --> 00:42:47.000 the procurement of a like services because at this 00:42:47.010 --> 00:42:50.878 point, anything we have, we run everything's on, everything's 00:42:50.889 --> 00:42:51.619 on the table. 00:42:53.188 --> 00:42:58.688 But loaded films 500 megawatts earlier. The reason 00:42:58.699 --> 00:42:59.648 I ask the question is 00:43:01.168 --> 00:43:04.780 I hear the physical condition that you're attempting 00:43:04.789 --> 00:43:07.059 to prevent. I'm trying to make sure that everything 00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:12.949 else that we're doing on market design and value signals. 00:43:12.958 --> 00:43:15.820 For price responsive behavior are synced up with that 00:43:15.829 --> 00:43:19.188 effort as well. So I'm trying to make sure that. One 00:43:19.688 --> 00:43:23.418 and, and now ancillaries are being viewed by the market 00:43:23.429 --> 00:43:27.369 as a major driver of market activity. Um That's a major 00:43:27.378 --> 00:43:32.079 discussion. Um A shift in the resource mix would change 00:43:32.090 --> 00:43:35.320 this again if we were to ship to have more synchronous 00:43:35.329 --> 00:43:36.079 generation, 00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:40.219 that would be different. (item:20:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on ancillary procurement) Kind of an engineering question 00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.579 and then sort of a public education observation. I 00:43:45.590 --> 00:43:50.079 guess. So. So your your change to the EEA levels is 00:43:50.090 --> 00:43:54.289 largely driven by the um. You know, because there's 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:57.239 going to be more murder based resources on the system 00:43:57.250 --> 00:44:01.159 system inertia is, is gonna reduce. So it's a system 00:44:01.168 --> 00:44:03.668 strength issue. I guess you want to be able to use 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:07.340 your tools earlier um to maintain frequency and, and 00:44:07.659 --> 00:44:12.000 everything else that comes with more expedited loss 00:44:12.010 --> 00:44:16.789 of, of inertia. What about um the asynchronous condensers 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:21.119 that you're considering for system stability and strength. 00:44:21.128 --> 00:44:26.168 I mean, how does that feed into if any um relation 00:44:26.429 --> 00:44:30.340 to helping maintain system strength? Because in one 00:44:30.349 --> 00:44:32.769 hand, we're adjusting our EEA levels. But on the other 00:44:32.780 --> 00:44:36.449 hand, and I don't know if this is related or not and 00:44:36.458 --> 00:44:38.849 and I just wanna see if there's a clarification or 00:44:38.860 --> 00:44:42.418 or explanation or whether or not they're related. ERCOT 00:44:42.429 --> 00:44:45.309 is proposing those like eight asynchronous condensers 00:44:45.530 --> 00:44:48.708 to, you know, West Texas to strengthen the system. 00:44:49.010 --> 00:44:55.280 So I mean do they relate? (item:20:Woody Rickerson's response to Commissioner Cobos' question on ancillary procurement) They do provide inertia 00:44:56.719 --> 00:45:01.179 but those have not been specked out yet. So we don't 00:45:01.188 --> 00:45:03.840 know how much inertia? We don't know how, I mean, it's 00:45:03.849 --> 00:45:06.619 going to depend on what technology, what brand, that 00:45:06.628 --> 00:45:10.500 kind of thing you buy, how big they are. I mean, you 00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:14.469 buy 2, 150 or one 300. I mean, that all 00:45:14.478 --> 00:45:17.320 makes, makes a difference. And so those numbers will 00:45:17.329 --> 00:45:20.010 be eventually calculated back into this. But uh and 00:45:20.019 --> 00:45:22.809 they also have to be running when during this time 00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:29.438 And so those are often run during periods, maybe not 00:45:29.449 --> 00:45:36.679 peak periods, off peak periods. OK. And so now, as 00:45:36.688 --> 00:45:41.590 you know, this, this new EEA um matrix rolls out. Um 00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:43.918 there's a potential to be in emergency conditions more 00:45:43.929 --> 00:45:48.208 often. And so I, I'm just wondering what ERCOT plans 00:45:48.219 --> 00:45:51.398 are in terms of communicating. Now, why you know, with 00:45:51.409 --> 00:45:54.280 with these changes in mind, um how you're going to 00:45:54.289 --> 00:45:58.679 communicate to the public um out there um what these 00:45:58.688 --> 00:46:03.949 new EEA levels now mean and why they're changing. Because 00:46:04.878 --> 00:46:07.958 now EEA 3 is gonna be triggered earlier in the 00:46:07.969 --> 00:46:10.378 process potentially. And so, I mean, I think there 00:46:10.389 --> 00:46:14.739 needs to be a broader public education aspect to this 00:46:14.750 --> 00:46:18.340 change. That, you know, again you know the markets 00:46:18.349 --> 00:46:21.019 in flux, right? We're, now we're dealing with not only 00:46:21.030 --> 00:46:23.079 peak demand during the day and the usual hours from 00:46:23.090 --> 00:46:25.429 4 to 7. But we're also dealing with a solar ramp down 00:46:25.438 --> 00:46:28.539 at night. That as I stated, last open meeting. I think 00:46:28.550 --> 00:46:30.860 we need to do, you know some kind of education on why 00:46:30.869 --> 00:46:33.188 we're why we're in, you know, emergency conditions 00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:36.429 at night or in conservation. But now with these EEA 00:46:36.438 --> 00:46:39.039 levels being changed in the whole matrix. I think 00:46:39.050 --> 00:46:43.719 that a public education effort is really important 00:46:43.728 --> 00:46:48.429 um as emergency conditions may be triggered earlier. 00:46:48.949 --> 00:46:52.599 And secondly, if we're looking at the physical system 00:46:52.610 --> 00:46:55.769 and installing engineering components to it. To add 00:46:55.780 --> 00:46:57.750 system strength and the ratepayers are ultimately going 00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:01.010 to be paying potentially billions of dollars. Then 00:47:01.019 --> 00:47:04.929 we gotta make sure that it's all syncing up together 00:47:04.938 --> 00:47:07.260 right? Because if those those condensers are approved 00:47:07.269 --> 00:47:09.889 they're gonna be expensive. And if we're adding things 00:47:09.898 --> 00:47:12.728 to increase the strength of the system and those could 00:47:12.739 --> 00:47:15.639 maybe help. But then we're changing the EEA levels 00:47:15.648 --> 00:47:19.168 and we're in emergency all the time. I mean that or 00:47:19.179 --> 00:47:23.688 more often. I'm just trying to look out into the future. 00:47:25.628 --> 00:47:30.010 (item:20:Woody Rickerson on synchronous condenser) The synchronous condenser, increasing system strength 00:47:30.019 --> 00:47:36.659 is for voltage reasons in West Texas. Doesn't really 00:47:36.668 --> 00:47:39.820 it's not really related to when you get into scarcity 00:47:39.829 --> 00:47:42.398 capacity conditions. So I think those two things are 00:47:42.409 --> 00:47:44.110 a little bit different. We're solving two different 00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:49.619 problems there. Okay. Now the solutions do add a little 00:47:49.628 --> 00:47:53.228 bit of inertia, but that's not a major contributor 00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:56.728 here. Okay. So I think if we want to make sure the 00:47:56.739 --> 00:47:59.469 public knows why the synchronous condensers are being 00:47:59.478 --> 00:48:04.128 put in. Then that's a fairly technical explanation. 00:48:04.139 --> 00:48:09.989 But we can talk about inverters and, and how wind and 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:13.369 solar uses inverters. And synchronous generation 00:48:13.378 --> 00:48:19.489 doesn't need those. Um as far as EEA being more uh 00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:23.760 frequent. I don't think it'll be any more frequent 00:48:24.628 --> 00:48:27.780 We were talking about going into EEA 1 at 200 Megawatt 00:48:27.789 --> 00:48:31.739 different level. I mean, statistically, it could be 00:48:31.750 --> 00:48:35.110 a little bit more frequent. It's not gonna be multiple, 00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:37.739 multiple times more frequently when we have a bad night 00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.010 or bad evening. I think that the risk is about the 00:48:42.019 --> 00:48:46.639 same. But we will be putting out more reports every 00:48:46.648 --> 00:48:49.719 month and these numbers will be factored into those 00:48:49.728 --> 00:48:53.250 reports. And those reports will have a probability of 00:48:53.260 --> 00:48:56.760 how often we expect or where we expect to go. And whether 00:48:56.769 --> 00:49:00.139 it's a 20% chance or a 5% chance or whatever. And so 00:49:00.148 --> 00:49:02.929 that is a report we're putting out publicly every month. 00:49:02.938 --> 00:49:05.639 to show what the risks are gonna be for given months 00:49:05.648 --> 00:49:08.628 and the probability of those risks. And these EEA levels 00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:12.500 will be incorporated in those reports. What he did 00:49:12.510 --> 00:49:15.019 anybody, nobody voted against this TAC, correct? 00:49:15.030 --> 00:49:18.860 This is all these, all of these were unanimous except 00:49:18.869 --> 00:49:25.378 for, I think the very first one, 1165. Right. One, one thing I'd highlight. 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:32.719 (item:20:Commissioner McAdams' thoughts on policy change) This, this is a policy change based on technical analysis 00:49:32.728 --> 00:49:36.179 and modeling. Okay. So it, it, it is in my mind, an 00:49:36.188 --> 00:49:40.139 engineering constraint of the system. Based on a high, 00:49:41.139 --> 00:49:46.398 high intermittent penetration and the resource mix. 00:49:47.398 --> 00:49:51.739 And as a result, any outcomes are unavoidable. It's 00:49:51.750 --> 00:49:53.478 it's going to be a fact of life for us to have 00:49:53.489 --> 00:49:57.510 to deal with. So, and the Technical Advisory Committee 00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:00.500 again, the so-called technical experts of the industry 00:50:00.510 --> 00:50:03.260 did not vote against it. I would highlight that's why 00:50:03.269 --> 00:50:05.889 those votes are very important to this Commission. To 00:50:05.898 --> 00:50:10.769 see where they come down on this to verify ERCOT Staff 00:50:10.780 --> 00:50:14.349 analysis, ERCOT models. Again, we're supposed to all 00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:19.679 be working in one, one direction. And but I do think the 00:50:19.688 --> 00:50:21.458 reason we're asking these questions, Woody. Is I think 00:50:21.469 --> 00:50:24.750 these numbers again, that that's what we base all the 00:50:24.760 --> 00:50:27.398 other stuff we're looking at around. Like how do we 00:50:27.409 --> 00:50:31.239 stay out of this technical condition of potential system 00:50:31.250 --> 00:50:37.019 failure? And um so it's, it's important and I think 00:50:37.030 --> 00:50:41.000 the stakeholder votes on these policies are extremely 00:50:41.010 --> 00:50:44.110 important and we look to those. So if they're not 100% 00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:48.340 on board, we need to know that. Um, don't wanna stress 00:50:48.349 --> 00:50:51.019 it. Yeah. Yeah, those are good points. Commissioner 00:50:51.030 --> 00:50:55.168 McAdams. (item:20:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on policy change) I, I have visited with um, ERCOT about these 00:50:55.179 --> 00:50:58.340 changes in the past. And, and I, I think it was highlighted 00:50:58.349 --> 00:51:00.898 that it was driven by more inverter based resources 00:51:00.909 --> 00:51:06.418 less inertia. Um again I, I think it's just kind of 00:51:06.429 --> 00:51:09.688 trying to understand how everything works together. 00:51:09.909 --> 00:51:12.619 And making sure that we're all on the same page moving 00:51:12.628 --> 00:51:18.820 forward. As part of some kind of public um transparency. 00:51:18.829 --> 00:51:20.949 And I think that you're highlighting what in the more 00:51:20.958 --> 00:51:25.550 report this will be all sort of baked in. So, um I 00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:29.349 think the discussion is helpful. So me too. (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's question on ratings) Woody, 00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:33.769 you on number on this same one? It does note in there 00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:40.780 that changing these EEA levels allows you to consider 00:51:40.789 --> 00:51:43.519 alternative transmission ratings. Can you explain that 00:51:43.530 --> 00:51:45.829 to me? I, I don't. I didn't understand how you were 00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:50.860 able to do that. And if that goes awry of NERC facility 00:51:50.869 --> 00:51:53.750 rating guidelines or if I'm totally missing the boat 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:54.099 there. 00:51:55.918 --> 00:51:56.619 (item:20:Woody Rickerson on ratings) Well, 00:51:58.949 --> 00:52:02.369 we have dynamic ratings, right? So we are considering 00:52:02.378 --> 00:52:04.010 those. Um 00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:09.559 when we have congestion on the system, one of the first 00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:13.369 things we asked TSPs is what's causing the, what's 00:52:13.378 --> 00:52:14.469 causing the limitation. 00:52:16.228 --> 00:52:21.860 And so occasionally it's not the wires, it's actually 00:52:21.869 --> 00:52:25.539 a something connected to the wires, maybe a uh a current 00:52:25.550 --> 00:52:29.179 transformer or a wave trap or something like that. 00:52:29.188 --> 00:52:33.148 So for a small price of replacing that small piece 00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:36.269 of equipment, you can increase the rating of 100 mile 00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:42.519 long line. And so we, we do have a process in place 00:52:42.530 --> 00:52:44.389 when we see congestion. That's the first thing we do 00:52:44.398 --> 00:52:47.530 is we go, we ask about the dynamic ratings. Is it dynamically 00:52:47.539 --> 00:52:49.929 rated? If it's not, we try to get dynamic ratings? 00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:53.599 Secondly, what's the constraint? Is it something that 00:52:53.610 --> 00:52:56.878 could be fixed without building a whole new line? Can 00:52:56.889 --> 00:52:59.110 we get more out of that line? Are we, are we realizing 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:03.360 the full capability of that line? So that, that's the 00:53:03.409 --> 00:53:06.000 those are the two things we do when we do have problems 00:53:06.010 --> 00:53:09.719 with the line. So the contingency, the alternative 00:53:09.728 --> 00:53:15.059 transmission ratings is more of a, it's not an operational 00:53:15.070 --> 00:53:19.320 issue in this context. Is that right? I wouldn't call 00:53:19.329 --> 00:53:22.458 it an operational issue. I mean, it is an operational 00:53:22.469 --> 00:53:23.659 issue but we fix it 00:53:25.898 --> 00:53:30.809 through modeling. So, I mean, the context was September 00:53:30.820 --> 00:53:36.079 6. When we went into EEA South of San Antonio because 00:53:36.090 --> 00:53:40.800 we had a limited transmission element. Is this something 00:53:40.809 --> 00:53:43.989 that can be considered and fixed under that, under that 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:48.769 or? Potentially we are still exploring that. There is 00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:52.519 the potential that, that we can get some ratings changes 00:53:52.530 --> 00:53:56.418 there that will help we're working with CPS on that. 00:53:56.648 --> 00:54:03.489 Okay. And it's, it's am I correct in saying. That it's 00:54:03.500 --> 00:54:07.349 the TDU that provides you all the ratings based upon 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:09.918 what the vendor provides them. Is that correct? That's 00:54:09.989 --> 00:54:13.719 right. (item:20:Woody Rickerson on rating methodology) Most, I think all TSPs have a rating methodology 00:54:13.728 --> 00:54:18.500 that they use. They decide what, how they want to rate 00:54:18.510 --> 00:54:21.478 their lines, the different ratings and, and how, how 00:54:21.489 --> 00:54:24.219 to apply them what's acceptable for because there is 00:54:24.228 --> 00:54:26.159 some risk to their equipment. So they all make those 00:54:26.168 --> 00:54:29.780 decisions. They're not all uniform, some are more conservative 00:54:29.789 --> 00:54:33.648 than others. But what we put in the model, well, actually 00:54:33.659 --> 00:54:37.260 what they put in our model is their rating based on 00:54:37.269 --> 00:54:40.688 their methodology. So they directly input that into 00:54:40.699 --> 00:54:43.780 our model. And then there's a follow up process where 00:54:43.789 --> 00:54:45.168 we look at that and say, well, 00:54:47.300 --> 00:54:49.708 process, we just talked about where we look and say 00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:51.329 well, is there something else that could be done with 00:54:51.340 --> 00:54:53.619 this? Could this be dynamically rated that kind of 00:54:53.750 --> 00:54:57.289 thing? And we're getting into the world of, of NERC 00:54:57.340 --> 00:55:01.728 guidelines on facility writings for TOs and, and such. 00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:02.280 is that right? 00:55:04.449 --> 00:55:07.369 Um okay, that's all I have on that one. Thank you. I 00:55:07.378 --> 00:55:10.090 appreciate the clarification. So I just had one more 00:55:10.099 --> 00:55:13.250 thing. (item:20:Chairwoman Jackson's review of the Commissioners and ERCOT's thought') So I guess just to clarify, you know, the risk 00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:15.708 has always been there, right? And we've always kind 00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:20.648 of had an eye both on uh inertia as well as capacity 00:55:20.978 --> 00:55:24.878 and as the resource mix has changed. I mean, it's been 00:55:25.168 --> 00:55:29.039 prudent that ERCOT would go in and evaluate that. And 00:55:29.050 --> 00:55:33.159 so the change here is really driven by again, that 00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:37.619 engineering evaluation to maintain reliability for 00:55:37.628 --> 00:55:41.000 the system and then going forth, we'll continue to 00:55:41.010 --> 00:55:45.228 evaluate that as things change within the system, potentially 00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:49.188 you know, we get, you know, a change in resource mix 00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:51.789 or more batteries or, or anything that could kind of 00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:55.349 impact these. So this, this will be an ongoing basis 00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:58.320 And I think the other point you made is and again to 00:55:58.489 --> 00:56:01.398 um Commissioner Cobos' question. Um the public now 00:56:01.409 --> 00:56:06.269 has uh through the mora you know, some more information 00:56:06.530 --> 00:56:12.648 to kind of be able to if you will predict going forward 00:56:12.929 --> 00:56:17.059 what the probability is going into these challenging 00:56:17.070 --> 00:56:21.139 seasons. Uh in terms of, you know, how, how close we 00:56:21.148 --> 00:56:25.510 are to coming to these various conditions. That's correct. 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:29.179 It will be I mean, this analysis just went through 00:56:29.188 --> 00:56:30.438 June 2022. 00:56:32.119 --> 00:56:35.500 So we'll continue to look at periods when the grid 00:56:35.510 --> 00:56:39.188 is in scarcity conditions and continue to look at that. 00:56:40.309 --> 00:56:45.590 I mean, this is, you gotta remember, this is um this 00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:47.878 is with, you got this much headroom left. 00:56:49.539 --> 00:56:51.679 Everything's online, everything's running, there's 00:56:51.688 --> 00:56:56.739 this much left what can pick up and the ability is 00:56:56.750 --> 00:56:58.659 changing as the resource mix changes. 00:57:00.429 --> 00:57:03.300 And I guess that's where I do have an interest in this 00:57:03.309 --> 00:57:08.228 discussion about facility ratings, single contingencies 00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:10.059 double contingencies. Something that we probably ought 00:57:10.070 --> 00:57:12.760 to get to, that's beyond the scope of this, this 00:57:12.849 --> 00:57:17.269 NPRR change. But, but something that could have 00:57:18.969 --> 00:57:22.409 an impact on the flows across the system at different 00:57:22.418 --> 00:57:23.769 times. So 00:57:26.789 --> 00:57:31.590 on to the next one. (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's question on constraint competitiveness test) Which is NPRR1182 very generically. 00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:34.570 What is the constraint competitiveness test? I haven't 00:57:34.579 --> 00:57:37.128 heard that before in the context of what we do over 00:57:37.139 --> 00:57:41.090 here. So I'm, I'm interested in what that is? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on constraint competitiveness test) So the 00:57:41.099 --> 00:57:44.519 the constraint competitive test is a methodology that 00:57:44.530 --> 00:57:47.840 we use to measure whether an entity has a local market 00:57:47.849 --> 00:57:50.789 power. That's the, that's the purpose of the test. 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.599 It's a, it's a market concentration test applied to 00:57:53.610 --> 00:57:57.449 local constraints adjusted by shift factor. The test 00:57:57.458 --> 00:58:00.869 is used exclusively exclusively for real time offer 00:58:00.878 --> 00:58:07.369 mitigation by resources. Um CLRs and, and batteries 00:58:07.378 --> 00:58:09.668 or new resource types that need to be included in the 00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:14.039 test, they're not included now. They will be with this. 00:58:14.809 --> 00:58:17.590 So is are there any regions of the state right now 00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:20.829 that fail the competitive, the constraint competitiveness 00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:23.809 test? I don't know the answer to that. 00:58:25.938 --> 00:58:31.019 Um I don't well. I don't know the answer to that. 00:58:32.300 --> 00:58:34.918 I don't know, I'm not going to speculate. 00:58:37.829 --> 00:58:41.849 So I, I guess the question is on this. So the, the 00:58:42.699 --> 00:58:48.000 constraint competitiveness tests takes a region of 00:58:48.010 --> 00:58:52.458 the state. Is that right? Just a local region is that. 00:58:52.469 --> 00:58:56.179 It's a market concentration test applied to local constraints. 00:58:56.329 --> 00:58:58.280 So if you have a local constraint that's affecting 00:58:58.289 --> 00:59:02.340 prices. If you had an entity that had complete control 00:59:02.349 --> 00:59:07.369 over that, then that would fail the test. And this 00:59:07.378 --> 00:59:08.570 would say that 00:59:10.418 --> 00:59:16.050 if you add in storage and CLRs, you're going to rerun 00:59:16.059 --> 00:59:19.469 it and say, do they still fail the test if you get 00:59:19.780 --> 00:59:25.389 x additional megawatts of storage or CLRs into that 00:59:25.398 --> 00:59:29.949 market? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on battery charges) So currently, when a battery charges, we treat 00:59:29.958 --> 00:59:33.099 it like a controllable Load resource. Okay. And when 00:59:33.110 --> 00:59:35.898 it discharges, we treat it like a generation resource 00:59:35.909 --> 00:59:38.728 And that's part of the limitations of not having a 00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:42.809 unified model for a battery yet, which we should have 00:59:42.820 --> 00:59:45.659 in the next couple of years. This method, all it's 00:59:45.668 --> 00:59:51.599 it's suboptimal. Um but it was a, it was a way to 00:59:51.958 --> 00:59:55.978 incorporate batteries into the model into the market 00:59:55.989 --> 00:59:59.639 and get them online even though we didn't have the 00:59:59.648 --> 01:00:03.309 unified model yet. So this was a suboptimal. What we 01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:06.418 have today is a suboptimal way of incorporating batteries 01:00:06.429 --> 01:00:09.559 as early as possible. Does this take into consideration 01:00:09.570 --> 01:00:12.878 their state of charge? And if they are only available 01:00:12.889 --> 01:00:14.949 in the Ancillary service market or does it just look 01:00:14.958 --> 01:00:18.599 on a per Megawatt basis? So once we have RT C plus 01:00:18.610 --> 01:00:22.800 batteries, it will. But what about under this today? This. 01:00:25.898 --> 01:00:29.019 Yes, it does recognize the limits on the duration. 01:00:29.409 --> 01:00:33.289 Ok. Yes. So it will be treating batteries and dispatchable 01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:36.418 resources and take into account their state of charge 01:00:36.429 --> 01:00:40.949 and duration. I guess I'd be interested. This seems 01:00:40.958 --> 01:00:44.530 a little bit deeper than what I had anticipated on 01:00:44.539 --> 01:00:47.500 this question. But it makes me think of different areas 01:00:47.510 --> 01:00:50.289 of the state that have 01:00:52.739 --> 01:00:58.530 uh that, that could be, that could fail this test. Where 01:00:58.539 --> 01:01:01.679 transmission should be built or could be built to solve 01:01:01.688 --> 01:01:05.878 that solution. I, I seriously think Houston. Is that 01:01:05.889 --> 01:01:10.239 a, are those parallel discussions or are they? 01:01:12.260 --> 01:01:14.840 Well, I think, I think a lot of this is. Uh I 01:01:14.849 --> 01:01:18.510 mean, we think of the grid as this uh transmission 01:01:18.519 --> 01:01:20.889 set of transmission lines and resources, but it's actually 01:01:20.898 --> 01:01:24.619 something different every 15 minutes because of outages. 01:01:25.889 --> 01:01:28.128 And so you've got a grid that's constantly changing 01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:30.750 and moving. So there may be times when this has to 01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:33.099 be applied that wouldn't apply at other times. So I 01:01:33.110 --> 01:01:34.750 think you have to think about that as well. 01:01:38.628 --> 01:01:39.320 Um 01:01:41.329 --> 01:01:45.809 And again, so, so do other regions include storage 01:01:45.820 --> 01:01:49.869 and controllable Load resources and their, I mean, 01:01:50.010 --> 01:01:53.719 similar test. I'm sorry, do they have a similar test 01:01:53.728 --> 01:01:57.619 for? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on battery testing) They include batteries? I'm sure they do. I don't 01:01:57.628 --> 01:01:59.530 know if they include batteries or not. This is the 01:01:59.539 --> 01:02:01.789 right way to go though, to make sure this competitive 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:03.668 test includes all the different resources that are 01:02:03.679 --> 01:02:05.820 on the grid. So this is an improvement and it'll get 01:02:05.829 --> 01:02:08.179 even better after RTC because we'll have a unified 01:02:08.188 --> 01:02:10.945 model for. So this will be a step in that direction 01:02:11.764 --> 01:02:13.833 I would be interested to know if there are any regions 01:02:13.844 --> 01:02:18.813 that have failed this, that would be really good because 01:02:18.824 --> 01:02:21.023 I think there are provisions of PURA that say that 01:02:21.074 --> 01:02:24.905 if there are regions of the state that market power 01:02:24.914 --> 01:02:25.824 exists, 01:02:27.793 --> 01:02:31.625 transmission solutions can be ordered to help solve 01:02:31.635 --> 01:02:34.985 those solutions and or help solve those problems. And 01:02:35.570 --> 01:02:38.619 we're getting into a new area here but beyond this 01:02:38.628 --> 01:02:44.289 NPRR. Um So anyway, um I will defer to that until a 01:02:44.300 --> 01:02:45.030 later discussion. 01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:49.579 I'm gonna go back and do some homework on that. That's 01:02:49.590 --> 01:02:51.010 interesting. Um 01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:57.800 I think I'm, I have a solution. (item:20:Commissioner Glotfelty's question on remedial action schemes) Or I have my answer 01:02:57.809 --> 01:03:04.659 on the next question um on No. 7, limiting the 01:03:04.668 --> 01:03:09.340 use of remedial action schemes. Can you explain? This 01:03:09.349 --> 01:03:13.688 is one that has been around for three or three years 01:03:13.699 --> 01:03:18.128 I think one that was tabled for the better part of 01:03:18.139 --> 01:03:22.188 three years and then came back very quickly and passed 01:03:22.489 --> 01:03:25.250 There was quite a bit of discussion between the transmission 01:03:25.260 --> 01:03:30.550 owners. My limited knowledge of this tells me that 01:03:30.570 --> 01:03:35.260 by putting this in a Nodal operating guide, you're 01:03:35.269 --> 01:03:37.340 tying one of your hands behind your back when you have 01:03:37.349 --> 01:03:42.360 tools in the toolbox for if a, if a remedial action 01:03:42.369 --> 01:03:45.679 scheme can help system reliability, why would you limit 01:03:45.688 --> 01:03:48.978 your use of that? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on remedial action schemes) So I think it's just the opposite 01:03:48.989 --> 01:03:54.019 of that. Actually, I'll tell you why. So um back around 01:03:54.030 --> 01:03:56.719 uh 2019 and 2020. We were getting a large number of 01:03:56.728 --> 01:04:00.378 requests for, we looked at implementing them and we 01:04:00.389 --> 01:04:04.989 started seeing problems. Uh We had problems with uh 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.369 like I, like I just said that the grid is changing 01:04:07.378 --> 01:04:10.378 all the time. So if you put a, a ras on the 01:04:10.389 --> 01:04:14.159 system and then you take an outage that ras potentially 01:04:14.168 --> 01:04:19.728 is modified, it reacts differently. So just OKING a 01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:23.039 ras was a problem because when you take an outage near 01:04:23.050 --> 01:04:27.300 the ras or as part of the ras, then that remedial action 01:04:27.309 --> 01:04:29.760 scheme behaves differently. And we have to account 01:04:29.769 --> 01:04:32.898 for that or if you take a remedial action scheme and 01:04:32.909 --> 01:04:35.978 put it next to another one and they affect each other 01:04:36.958 --> 01:04:38.628 or if you have two next to each other and you put 01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:42.309 an outage in the middle of or if you have different 01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:45.030 wind and solar generation patterns at the same time 01:04:45.228 --> 01:04:48.239 So there are a lot of moving parts and so we took 01:04:48.250 --> 01:04:51.019 a step back and said this is causing potentially gonna 01:04:51.030 --> 01:04:54.958 cause some reliability problems putting rass in place. 01:04:55.110 --> 01:04:58.090 So we went to work with the market participants. I 01:04:58.099 --> 01:05:01.050 think I looked and saw 38 separate comments that were 01:05:01.059 --> 01:05:03.159 submitted on this over the course of two years, we 01:05:03.168 --> 01:05:09.659 worked with them. And um what came out of this was 01:05:09.668 --> 01:05:15.409 a set of, of qualifications for ras to be used. So 01:05:15.418 --> 01:05:19.000 I think of this as actually opening the door for rass 01:05:19.019 --> 01:05:23.739 is not closing the door. So with this is a, this is 01:05:23.750 --> 01:05:26.969 a list of and this is in the protocols. Uh you know 01:05:26.978 --> 01:05:30.469 10 things that rass needs to take into account before 01:05:30.478 --> 01:05:33.750 it gets implemented and we can read through them if 01:05:33.760 --> 01:05:37.030 you want me to. But it's 10 technical things that say 01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:39.719 as long as it doesn't do this or do this or do 01:05:39.728 --> 01:05:43.800 this or do this, then we can implement it. So I think 01:05:43.809 --> 01:05:48.250 of this as opening the toolbox up but making sure the 01:05:48.260 --> 01:05:50.860 tools we have in there are safe tools to use. Okay. 01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:57.679 So what do you look this gets bottled up inside the 01:05:57.688 --> 01:06:00.728 the committees for 3 years? Two years. Three years, 01:06:01.099 --> 01:06:03.869 three years. How does this thing pop out all of a sudden 01:06:03.878 --> 01:06:06.000 unanimously and I'm looking at other stakeholders, 01:06:06.010 --> 01:06:08.269 I'm going to bring this up under other agenda items. 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:12.208 People need to wake up within the market and the industry. 01:06:12.219 --> 01:06:15.148 I mean, we're asked to be approved, approving all this 01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:17.579 stuff and we need feedback and all of a sudden this 01:06:17.590 --> 01:06:21.239 thing comes out. How did that happen? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on implementing tools) Well, there were 01:06:21.250 --> 01:06:24.438 a lot of meetings behind the scenes in that three years. 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:27.590 There were a lot of interest, a lot. We, I sat through 01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:30.449 a lot of these different meetings and you know, it 01:06:30.458 --> 01:06:30.978 was, 01:06:33.010 --> 01:06:37.929 it was a uh discussion about reliability versus getting 01:06:37.938 --> 01:06:39.349 the most out of the system. 01:06:41.449 --> 01:06:43.789 And there's a tug of war there all the time. It's a 01:06:43.800 --> 01:06:47.119 natural tug of war that happens. And I think where 01:06:47.128 --> 01:06:50.208 we landed is a is a safe place to implement these tools 01:06:50.219 --> 01:06:54.398 But um the discussion wasn't quiet during those three 01:06:54.409 --> 01:06:58.539 years. It was ongoing. It just uh once we reached a 01:06:58.550 --> 01:07:02.610 point and I think uh we had market participants that 01:07:02.619 --> 01:07:05.989 own generation involved, we had a TSP that stepped 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:09.159 in and we had ICO. So we had all three segments that 01:07:09.168 --> 01:07:11.969 helped craft that. And I think maybe that's what causes 01:07:11.978 --> 01:07:17.059 it to uh to be voted for unanimously. Okay. 01:07:19.820 --> 01:07:24.418 So I think you've answered my question here that you're 01:07:24.429 --> 01:07:27.099 not limiting yourself, but you're creating the guidelines 01:07:27.110 --> 01:07:30.329 by which these remedial action schemes will be accepted 01:07:30.708 --> 01:07:34.530 And therefore, they can be used in the context of this 01:07:34.539 --> 01:07:38.500 list of 10. If they are used correctly to make the 01:07:38.510 --> 01:07:42.179 system more reliable, then they're acceptable. If not 01:07:43.070 --> 01:07:47.090 well, then you're going to sign up and, and the nor 01:07:47.099 --> 01:07:52.199 itself has a pretty good write up in it about the problems 01:07:52.219 --> 01:07:55.378 that we were facing. And there's a good section in 01:07:55.389 --> 01:07:57.659 there that here were the problems that we were having 01:07:57.668 --> 01:08:01.168 that caused us to write this note here and then in 01:08:01.179 --> 01:08:04.760 the nor itself, it says as long as the rass can meet 01:08:04.769 --> 01:08:06.550 these standards, it can be implemented 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:12.000 that's helpful on that one. Do you still want to remand? 01:08:12.429 --> 01:08:15.869 No, I think. I think I'm okay on it and I would 01:08:15.878 --> 01:08:19.600 make that in, in whatever motion we have at the end 01:08:19.609 --> 01:08:25.180 of this. Just two, two more. Uh 01:08:28.288 --> 01:08:31.389 So the, the question was, I, I didn't quite understand 01:08:31.578 --> 01:08:36.029 nor 247. Could you take me back and help me understand 01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:40.048 how that works in real time? It doesn't seem like this 01:08:40.060 --> 01:08:42.539 is that big of a deal upon reading about it. But I 01:08:42.548 --> 01:08:45.770 just can you, can you walk me through that? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on frequency) Back in 01:08:45.779 --> 01:08:48.890 Uri, we saw some seam turbines that had a little bit 01:08:48.899 --> 01:08:53.390 of instability. Because frequency rose very quickly 01:08:54.338 --> 01:09:00.488 because of the UFLS. And so this is simply taking those 01:09:00.498 --> 01:09:04.069 steps and making them smaller so that they won't be 01:09:04.079 --> 01:09:06.640 as show. That's right. So you're hoping that frequency 01:09:06.649 --> 01:09:08.890 doesn't go up, frequency doesn't rock the system quite 01:09:08.899 --> 01:09:12.819 as much. And so the total amount is the same. Uh It 01:09:12.829 --> 01:09:16.560 doesn't change anything that has the OS designated 01:09:16.569 --> 01:09:18.770 to do Load shed, it doesn't change anything like that 01:09:19.220 --> 01:09:21.270 Um It's just, the programming is a little different 01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:26.069 instead of 5% 10% 10% it just goes to 555 and five 01:09:26.079 --> 01:09:28.770 So the total amount is the same. So it is a uh 01:09:28.779 --> 01:09:31.208 we're smoothing it out instead of making it quite so 01:09:31.220 --> 01:09:34.188 rocky. Okay. That's the only change though. 01:09:36.418 --> 01:09:42.489 And then on figure 103, this was my last question. Um I 01:09:42.500 --> 01:09:47.878 had I, the way project development works is sometimes 01:09:47.890 --> 01:09:49.970 you have supply changes, especially in this day and 01:09:49.979 --> 01:09:53.500 age clearly. What you're trying to do is you're trying 01:09:53.509 --> 01:09:57.479 to get facilities on the system commercial projects 01:09:57.489 --> 01:10:02.668 operational. Are there exceptions to that? Or do you 01:10:02.958 --> 01:10:07.088 if you don't pass this 300 days, do you go back to 01:10:07.100 --> 01:10:12.789 score one or are you given? They're just, you know 01:10:12.798 --> 01:10:15.720 in project development, Woody as you know. On the system 01:10:15.729 --> 01:10:18.989 these things take a long time, 300 days is less than 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:23.109 a year. You all are put in the position of a facility 01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:26.899 that wants to be on in 10 days most of the time. 01:10:27.289 --> 01:10:30.509 Unless there are, you know, supply chain issues. I'm 01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:33.939 just wondering, are there exceptions to this rule? 01:10:33.949 --> 01:10:38.579 Are there processes that can be implemented that would 01:10:39.588 --> 01:10:41.878 allow facilities to? 01:10:44.069 --> 01:10:47.109 We're not encouraging this. We want to encourage them 01:10:47.119 --> 01:10:49.899 to get on within the 300 days. But you've worked up 01:10:49.909 --> 01:10:53.930 to 300 days and your equipment still hasn't arrived. 01:10:55.548 --> 01:11:01.208 What happens? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on commissioning problems) Yes, I think first of all, we've got 01:11:01.220 --> 01:11:03.529 a almost 12,000 megawatts 01:11:05.159 --> 01:11:07.659 stuck in Part 2 trying to get to Part 3. 01:11:09.289 --> 01:11:11.909 Some of those have been there three years. 01:11:13.458 --> 01:11:17.770 Right. That's a problem. So those are not fully commissioned 01:11:17.779 --> 01:11:21.048 units and we can't get them across the finish line 01:11:21.509 --> 01:11:24.579 So I wouldn't think of this as waiting for equipment 01:11:24.588 --> 01:11:28.439 to arrive. These are fully functioning plants that 01:11:28.449 --> 01:11:30.890 have all their equipment they're running. 01:11:33.060 --> 01:11:36.399 So they're not waiting for another something to arrive 01:11:36.409 --> 01:11:38.418 in the supply chain. It's not a supply chain problem 01:11:38.430 --> 01:11:42.899 It's a commissioning problem and like with a wind farm 01:11:42.909 --> 01:11:46.279 if you've got 200 turbines. It does take a while to 01:11:46.289 --> 01:11:48.180 do each one of those turbines. You have to have a wind 01:11:48.189 --> 01:11:50.770 blowing first of all and things like that. And that's 01:11:50.779 --> 01:11:53.149 where the 300 days came from. We felt like that was 01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:56.329 a good co we wanted less. We compromised to 300. Probably 01:11:56.338 --> 01:12:00.949 like, well, 300 is a good, a good amount. Um If there 01:12:00.958 --> 01:12:03.319 is a good technical justification for not being able 01:12:03.329 --> 01:12:08.168 to do it, then we can, we can give them a uh 01:12:09.958 --> 01:12:17.668 we can, we can defer that 300 but at 300 days, if 01:12:17.680 --> 01:12:20.149 they've been there for 300 days and they haven't gone 01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:23.640 past, then we're going to report them. Does this have 01:12:23.649 --> 01:12:28.399 to do with any of this? Have them, does any of this 01:12:28.409 --> 01:12:30.989 have to do with them giving you models of their, of 01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:34.168 their. The operational models associated with their 01:12:34.180 --> 01:12:39.628 facilities? (item:20:Woody Rickerson on operational models associated with facilities) Um It could, it could. I don't think that's 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:42.878 the biggest thing that keeps those things from happening 01:12:42.890 --> 01:12:46.640 now. Um There may be some updates to some models that 01:12:46.649 --> 01:12:48.708 they still owe us or things like that, but I don't 01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:50.270 think they even get to part two without giving us a 01:12:50.279 --> 01:12:55.470 good model. Generally, this is, this is uh is just 01:12:55.479 --> 01:12:58.649 the final performance testing before they are, get 01:12:58.659 --> 01:13:00.819 the check to say you're commercially operational. 01:13:02.489 --> 01:13:03.048 And, well. 01:13:07.060 --> 01:13:09.729 And these are these megawatts included in CDR? 01:13:11.270 --> 01:13:14.649 Yes they are. Okay. So they are. Even though they're D rated scale, right? 01:13:14.659 --> 01:13:18.520 Because they're not fully rated up. No, they are included 01:13:18.529 --> 01:13:23.649 at their ELCC. They're using this average waiting 01:13:23.659 --> 01:13:24.009 thing. 01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:27.720 So we're looking at them like they're fully commissioned 01:13:27.729 --> 01:13:32.449 units from CDR more perspective. But you're trying 01:13:32.458 --> 01:13:36.060 to, you're trying to close the book on this operation. 01:13:36.069 --> 01:13:38.600 Let's get it done, guys. Come in the door, finish this 01:13:38.609 --> 01:13:41.470 thing so we can go on to the next one. Yeah. Okay. 01:13:43.208 --> 01:13:48.930 Um I'm, I am satisfied with these answers and, and 01:13:48.939 --> 01:13:54.168 appreciate your discussion. I would say that I'm not 01:13:54.449 --> 01:13:58.310 in the mindset to remand anything as noted on No. 01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:01.949 7 in my memo. And would be happy to have discussion 01:14:01.958 --> 01:14:06.430 or move that these be approved. Before we go forward. 01:14:06.439 --> 01:14:09.659 (item:20:Chairwoman Jackson gives appreciation to Commissioner Glotfelty and Woody Rickerson) I just wanted to say thank you for taking, you know 01:14:09.668 --> 01:14:13.458 this, this effort to go through and from a due diligence 01:14:13.470 --> 01:14:16.310 standpoint. I mean, not only, I mean, these came to 01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:19.479 us, I think and were considered by ERCOT because there 01:14:19.489 --> 01:14:23.029 was a case for action. But I mean, to me, it's pretty 01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:25.640 clear we're not just looking at, you know, how do we 01:14:25.649 --> 01:14:28.220 solve, you know, the issue of the day at this point 01:14:28.229 --> 01:14:32.119 in time, but also as you stated in the discussion, 01:14:32.378 --> 01:14:36.220 you know, that kind of ensued is that we're also considering 01:14:36.229 --> 01:14:38.979 what is the impact for the future and how does that 01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:41.439 implicate everything else that we're kind of working 01:14:41.449 --> 01:14:47.149 on? So I think the the questioning and um the due diligence 01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:51.310 and the opportunity for ERCOT to come and to um really 01:14:51.319 --> 01:14:53.509 kind of showcase. I think the good work that's been 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:56.729 done here and, and the, and the path forward is, is 01:14:56.739 --> 01:14:59.229 was, was really beneficial. And I just wanted to thank 01:14:59.239 --> 01:15:01.579 you for, for drilling down and taking the time to do 01:15:01.588 --> 01:15:05.458 this. (item:20:Commissioner McAdams' provides final thoughts) I think it was that's great. And I just want to highlight 01:15:05.470 --> 01:15:08.779 for the system is like, look, it's, it's our signatures 01:15:08.789 --> 01:15:12.539 that are going on this thing and, and, and ultimately 01:15:12.759 --> 01:15:15.479 it's the body of work that ERCOT conducts over these 01:15:15.489 --> 01:15:20.140 years that, that we look to as that evidentiary record 01:15:20.430 --> 01:15:23.739 to, to base our decisions on. And if people are muted 01:15:24.069 --> 01:15:27.069 if they don't participate, we're at a point now where 01:15:27.079 --> 01:15:29.810 the system, hard decisions have to be made. And these 01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:32.390 even though these are the easy ones, Woody. These are 01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:35.600 hard decisions, adjusting those EEA conditions is a 01:15:35.609 --> 01:15:37.569 weighty decision and you guys were working on this 01:15:37.579 --> 01:15:38.338 well in advance. 01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:42.838 And, and then people will come back to me and say, 01:15:42.850 --> 01:15:44.458 well, you signed it. I'm like, you're darn right I 01:15:44.470 --> 01:15:46.640 signed it. I mean, given the information I had at the 01:15:46.649 --> 01:15:52.180 time. But um, we need help and we need help from the 01:15:52.189 --> 01:15:54.579 rest of the system. And if, and if they don't help 01:15:54.588 --> 01:15:58.708 then they have what they have. But I echo your compliments 01:15:58.720 --> 01:16:01.000 Madam Chair. I think Commissioner Glotfelty, you did 01:16:01.009 --> 01:16:04.399 exactly what the Legislature intended and we'll continue 01:16:04.409 --> 01:16:09.199 to do so. (item:20:Commissioner Cobos provides final thoughts and appreciation) Yes. I, I am in agreement with Chair Jackson 01:16:09.208 --> 01:16:11.069 and Commissioner McAdams statement. Thank you, Commissioner 01:16:11.390 --> 01:16:15.430 Glotfelty. I think this is a worthy exercise to have 01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:18.899 a worthy discussion to have. As you know, Commissioner 01:16:18.909 --> 01:16:20.869 McAdams highlighted at the end of the day, we have 01:16:20.878 --> 01:16:24.619 to approve, deny or remand these protocols per 1500 01:16:24.750 --> 01:16:26.899 it's incumbent on us to exercise our due diligence 01:16:26.909 --> 01:16:29.048 and, and really try to understand where we may have 01:16:29.060 --> 01:16:32.430 questions um where the NPRR is whether non unanimous 01:16:32.439 --> 01:16:35.899 or unanimous um where they're headed and why and, and 01:16:35.909 --> 01:16:40.350 I, I have always found it very um educational and informative 01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:43.770 to hear, you know, ERCOT's perspective. And obviously 01:16:43.779 --> 01:16:45.548 you know, when we have time to go back and dig through 01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:48.079 stakeholder comments, you know, I certainly do that. 01:16:48.520 --> 01:16:51.259 But to Commissioner McAdams point, you know, there 01:16:51.270 --> 01:16:53.239 are issues we need to hear from the stakeholders too. 01:16:53.250 --> 01:16:56.289 So anyway, thank you, Woody for all your feedback on that. 01:16:56.449 --> 01:17:00.140 Thank you Woody very much. And Commissioner Glotfelty for your work on this. Just so 01:17:00.149 --> 01:17:04.338 there's a motion. Yeah, I would move that we pass all 01:17:04.350 --> 01:17:05.399 29. 01:17:09.128 --> 01:17:11.890 What are they? Well, one procedural thing you could 01:17:11.899 --> 01:17:14.109 do is move to approve the proposed order that's before 01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:16.489 you. (item:20:Motion to approve proposed order) I would move to approve the proposed order that's before us. 01:17:17.878 --> 01:17:21.569 Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, say 01:17:21.609 --> 01:17:23.729 aye. Aye. Motion passes. 01:17:28.259 --> 01:17:31.878 I don't have anything on Item No. 21. (item:22:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project No. 55323) Next up is 01:17:31.890 --> 01:17:36.640 Item No. 22, Project No. 55323. This is the Commission's 01:17:36.649 --> 01:17:40.119 rule making regarding its review of the renewable portfolio 01:17:40.128 --> 01:17:42.939 standard. Shelah, do we have anyone from the public 01:17:42.949 --> 01:17:45.970 signed up to speak on Item No. 22? (item:22:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No, ma'am. No 01:17:46.009 --> 01:17:50.128 one signed up to speak. We have um Zachary Dollar, 01:17:50.140 --> 01:17:54.569 Dollar here. Um, and David Smeltzer with PUC Staff. 01:17:54.579 --> 01:17:58.009 Um do y'all want to provide a brief overview of the 01:17:58.020 --> 01:18:01.619 proposal for publication? (item:22:Zachary Dollar with Commission Staff lays out overview of proposal for publication) Yes, ma'am. Good morning 01:18:01.628 --> 01:18:04.708 Commissioners. Zachary Dollar for Commission Staff. House 01:18:04.720 --> 01:18:07.588 Bill 1500 from the 88th Legislative Session repealed 01:18:07.600 --> 01:18:10.119 the renewable energy credits trading program under 01:18:10.128 --> 01:18:13.579 Section 39.904 of the Public Utility Regulatory Act. 01:18:13.918 --> 01:18:16.100 But required the Commission to continue the trading 01:18:16.109 --> 01:18:18.729 program and a mandatory renewable portfolio standard 01:18:18.789 --> 01:18:21.479 for only solar generation until the program's complete 01:18:21.489 --> 01:18:26.520 repeal. Effective September 1, 2025. House Bill 1500 01:18:26.529 --> 01:18:29.220 also required ERCOT to create and maintain a voluntary 01:18:29.229 --> 01:18:32.000 accreditation banking system. To award and track all 01:18:32.009 --> 01:18:35.458 renewable energy credits. To comply with statute, Commission 01:18:35.470 --> 01:18:38.039 proposes repeal and replace language for Section 25.173. 01:18:38.048 --> 01:18:42.479 That will establish compliance periods for 2024 01:18:42.489 --> 01:18:46.520 and 2025 to meet statutory deadlines. Modify the trading 01:18:46.529 --> 01:18:48.878 program to only allow the use of rex and compliance 01:18:48.890 --> 01:18:52.720 premiums generated by solar energy resources. Restrict 01:18:52.729 --> 01:18:55.680 the usage of compliance premiums to the 2024 compliance 01:18:55.689 --> 01:18:59.979 period. Adjust RPS obligations for retail entities 01:18:59.989 --> 01:19:02.619 to remain consistent with the intent of the modified 01:19:02.628 --> 01:19:05.829 program. And instruct ERCOT to create a voluntary rec 01:19:05.838 --> 01:19:09.539 accreditation and banking system. Also, Commission 01:19:09.548 --> 01:19:11.770 Staff is recommending two changes from the file draft 01:19:11.779 --> 01:19:14.229 to correct editorial errors identified after the filing. 01:19:15.009 --> 01:19:18.149 Firstly, compliance premiums will continue to be generated 01:19:18.159 --> 01:19:21.489 by all certified solar generators, not just those certified 01:19:21.500 --> 01:19:25.829 after 2024. Secondly, we will be correcting the reference 01:19:25.838 --> 01:19:28.409 subsection within the renewable energy credit definition. 01:19:28.619 --> 01:19:31.319 The definition references Subsection E and it will 01:19:31.329 --> 01:19:33.439 be changed to reference the correct subsection which 01:19:33.449 --> 01:19:37.259 is Subsection D as was the original intent. Commission 01:19:37.270 --> 01:19:39.989 Staff recommends that the Commission approve the proposal 01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:42.479 for publication with these changes in the Texas Register. 01:19:42.779 --> 01:19:44.600 Thank you and I'm happy to take any questions. 01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:49.359 I would entertain a motion to approve the proposal 01:19:49.369 --> 01:19:52.539 for publication as modified by Staff's recommendation. 01:19:52.829 --> 01:19:55.189 (item:22:Commissioner McAdams' thoughts on Commission Staff's proposal for publication) So Madam Chair, I'd highlight that this is a proposal 01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:57.628 for publication. Look forward to the comments. I think 01:19:57.640 --> 01:20:00.859 they gave a they constructed a great target for the 01:20:00.869 --> 01:20:05.418 industry to to fire at to to inform our decision. And 01:20:05.430 --> 01:20:08.100 if there's any further conversation. (item:22:Motion to approve proposal for publication) I would move to 01:20:08.109 --> 01:20:10.779 approve the proposal for publication. May I just say 01:20:10.789 --> 01:20:15.970 one thing. Again during the comment period. I hope the 01:20:15.979 --> 01:20:20.109 stakeholders in the industry. The part that interests 01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:24.048 me on this is. (item:22:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on proposal for publication) If we move to a world where we 01:20:24.060 --> 01:20:28.659 utilize these different colored hydrogens and our renewable 01:20:28.668 --> 01:20:31.878 facilities are producing green hydrogen, there has 01:20:31.890 --> 01:20:35.850 to be some credit program to or certification program 01:20:35.859 --> 01:20:40.338 to credit that, that it's green. So I would love for 01:20:40.350 --> 01:20:44.088 the industry to come and say does section, Subsection 01:20:44.100 --> 01:20:49.458 F. Allow them what they need to ensure that these facilities 01:20:49.470 --> 01:20:52.079 if they're producing green hydrogen are eligible for 01:20:52.088 --> 01:20:54.029 federal tax credits under that program. 01:20:56.100 --> 01:21:00.020 Both are renewable, right? No, just kidding. Both are 01:21:00.039 --> 01:21:02.689 renewable. We just got to make sure we just got to 01:21:02.699 --> 01:21:07.628 make sure one's tracked. So, and with that, I'm supportive 01:21:07.640 --> 01:21:11.628 of your motion and second. Thank you. Okay. (item:22:Chairwoman Jackson confirmed motion language was modified) And you modified 01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:15.119 it by the Staff's recommendation as well? Consistent with 01:21:15.350 --> 01:21:19.289 recommendation. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Motion and a 01:21:19.298 --> 01:21:24.180 second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Motion passes. (item:23:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project No. 55421) Next up is 01:21:24.189 --> 01:21:28.529 Item No. 23, Project No. 55421. This is the Commission's 01:21:28.539 --> 01:21:31.470 project for the Texas Advanced Nuclear Reactor Working 01:21:31.479 --> 01:21:34.079 Group. Shelah, do we have anyone from the public signed 01:21:34.088 --> 01:21:37.708 up to speak on Item No. 23? (item:23:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No, ma'am. Commissioner 01:21:38.229 --> 01:21:40.838 Glotfelty, do you have an update? I promise I won't 01:21:40.850 --> 01:21:43.970 ever talk as much like I have in this meeting. 01:21:45.779 --> 01:21:47.958 (item:23:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on recent working group meeting) I just want to say thank you all for your support. 01:21:48.699 --> 01:21:52.989 On October 10, we released a list of working group 01:21:53.000 --> 01:21:57.489 members. We have a very good rounded list of members 01:21:57.500 --> 01:22:00.489 from all over the state. Different types of entities 01:22:00.500 --> 01:22:05.628 whether they be educational or construction or reactor 01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:09.390 design companies. Education institutions, wholesale 01:22:09.399 --> 01:22:13.359 customers, high tech customers they're all have been 01:22:13.369 --> 01:22:16.628 named on this. And we are going to be moving at pretty 01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:20.449 quick speed but we are excited to be moving forward. 01:22:20.458 --> 01:22:24.140 And I'm just happy that we got over this hurdle. For 01:22:24.149 --> 01:22:27.418 for those that I know there was some disappointment 01:22:27.430 --> 01:22:30.390 for some that didn't get on this, the actual working 01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:33.729 group. But we have, we're going to have 6 more. Six 01:22:33.739 --> 01:22:38.319 or 7 more groups of very specific issues that we 01:22:38.329 --> 01:22:40.819 need to solve. The oil and gas interest in this. The 01:22:40.829 --> 01:22:43.548 high technology interest in this. Workforce and supply 01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:47.168 chain. So please don't think that you're not part of 01:22:47.180 --> 01:22:49.418 this group. We want everybody to be part of this group. 01:22:49.430 --> 01:22:53.529 Just like ADER. We had a few leaders and we had 70 01:22:53.539 --> 01:22:55.759 people participating. That's what we want in this. 01:22:57.500 --> 01:23:01.640 Thank you. (item:23:Chairwoman Jackson gives appreciation to Commissioner Glotfelty) Well, congratulations to the working group 01:23:01.649 --> 01:23:04.890 members. Um a lot of exciting and very important work 01:23:04.899 --> 01:23:07.759 ahead. And I would echo your thoughts and continue to 01:23:07.770 --> 01:23:10.000 encourage all stakeholders and members of the public 01:23:10.009 --> 01:23:14.878 to be engaged on this very important topic. Uh I don't 01:23:14.890 --> 01:23:20.439 have anything on items 24, 25, 26 or 27. Next up is 01:23:20.449 --> 01:23:23.659 Item No. 28. Shelah, do we have anyone from the public 01:23:23.668 --> 01:23:27.759 signed up to speak on Item No. 28? (item:28:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No, ma'am. This 01:23:27.770 --> 01:23:30.850 Saturday, October 14, the solar eclipse will be visible 01:23:30.859 --> 01:23:34.369 from many parts of Texas. (item:28:Chairwoman Jackson asks ERCOT for grid update on solar eclipse happening 10/14/2023) I would like for ERCOT to 01:23:34.378 --> 01:23:37.579 provide an update on any impact to the grid. And so 01:23:37.588 --> 01:23:41.199 if you could please come, come up Woody. And state your 01:23:41.208 --> 01:23:44.100 name and organization and tell us how we're prepared 01:23:44.109 --> 01:23:45.329 for the solar eclipse. 01:23:47.668 --> 01:23:49.220 (item:28:Woody Rickerson with ERCOT on solar eclipse) Woody Rickerson with ERCOT. 01:23:50.819 --> 01:23:54.689 So we don't expect any reliability impacts from the 01:23:54.699 --> 01:23:59.298 eclipse. Uh obviously, the eclipse is going to have 01:23:59.310 --> 01:24:02.250 an effect on solar output, but it also has an effect 01:24:02.259 --> 01:24:08.048 on Load. And you also have not an effect, don't have 01:24:08.060 --> 01:24:10.029 an effect on wind. But you actually have wind moving 01:24:10.039 --> 01:24:12.579 at the same time as well. So all those things have 01:24:12.588 --> 01:24:15.259 to be incorporated. And so we've, we've put all those 01:24:15.270 --> 01:24:17.838 forecasts in and we'll make sure we have enough generation 01:24:17.850 --> 01:24:20.739 online. With enough headroom to make up for the decreasing 01:24:20.750 --> 01:24:23.079 solar amounts. And so we don't expect any problems. 01:24:25.020 --> 01:24:28.759 So you forecast, I guess what, you anticipate the average 01:24:28.770 --> 01:24:32.180 demand to be during the event on Saturday. And then 01:24:32.189 --> 01:24:36.060 what the impact would be from the, from the reduced 01:24:36.069 --> 01:24:38.548 amount of solar. And then you've got kind of a game 01:24:38.560 --> 01:24:41.579 plan where the peakers would pick up the difference. 01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:47.529 Yeah. So the ERCOT uh SCED engine actually looks at 01:24:47.539 --> 01:24:50.279 this and make sure that there's enough ramp right there. 01:24:50.289 --> 01:24:52.789 And if there is a problem, if we were to have a 01:24:52.798 --> 01:24:54.798 forced outage of a unit that was supposed to be there. 01:24:54.810 --> 01:24:57.918 We do have ERCOT contingency, reserve service, the 01:24:57.970 --> 01:25:01.759 ECRS product there available that can be deployed to 01:25:01.770 --> 01:25:06.029 help make up for a potential unknown unforeseen issue 01:25:06.039 --> 01:25:08.529 with a, with a plant or something or maybe a forecast 01:25:08.539 --> 01:25:11.869 issue or something. Like that and, and MDR POC has 01:25:11.878 --> 01:25:16.329 been um uh thoughtfully adjusted to account for the 01:25:16.338 --> 01:25:19.319 need of those dispatchable units over the period. Yeah. 01:25:19.329 --> 01:25:25.350 The uh that's right. (item:28:Woody Rickerson's additional thoughts on solar eclipse) Um, the solar down ramp is actually 01:25:25.359 --> 01:25:31.128 faster than a sunset. Really. So, and you have to think 01:25:31.140 --> 01:25:37.970 about that. Uh the, the shadow as it moves from the 01:25:38.458 --> 01:25:41.600 Northwest to the Southeast, it's not in one place at 01:25:41.609 --> 01:25:47.430 all. So a wind, a solar plant is going to experience 01:25:47.439 --> 01:25:49.479 that shadow moving over it, but it will be at a different 01:25:49.489 --> 01:25:50.609 time from other solar plants. 01:25:52.850 --> 01:25:56.548 And so there are several dynamics in involved and there's 01:25:56.560 --> 01:26:00.829 some good maps out there that uh show that that shadow 01:26:00.838 --> 01:26:03.588 moving across the different plants. But it's actually 01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:07.640 a faster down around than you would expect to see in 01:26:07.649 --> 01:26:11.520 any given. Is, is this going to be a pretty good test 01:26:11.529 --> 01:26:13.878 case? Aren't we going to have one in April as well 01:26:13.890 --> 01:26:17.520 Okay. Do you think it will be very similar to what we 01:26:17.529 --> 01:26:20.338 experience or in terms of how you'll have to adjust? 01:26:20.350 --> 01:26:21.750 It should be a really good test case. 01:26:25.539 --> 01:26:28.128 Okay. Well, we appreciate the update and it sounds like 01:26:28.140 --> 01:26:31.548 uh ERCOT is prepared. (item:28:Chairwoman Jackson lays out safety information on solar eclipse) Of course, we know that safety 01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:34.989 is always number one. And during an eclipse, um it's 01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:38.449 never safe to look directly at the sun without a specialized 01:26:38.628 --> 01:26:42.270 eye protection designated for solar viewing. So I wanted 01:26:42.279 --> 01:26:46.435 to make sure that all had so that they 01:26:48.503 --> 01:26:48.574 have to 01:26:51.534 --> 01:26:54.845 you can look at the eclipse and then save the glasses 01:26:54.854 --> 01:26:57.444 for the total solar eclipse which will be next year 01:26:57.454 --> 01:26:59.384 on April 8, 2024. Fantastic. 01:27:01.154 --> 01:27:03.463 Thank you. Madam Chair, before we moved on. Could I 01:27:03.475 --> 01:27:05.515 make an announcement under this heading which I believe 01:27:06.185 --> 01:27:11.979 Staff has cleared. Sorry, sorry to deviate from script a bit. (item:28:Commissioner McAdams on upcoming ERCOT Budget Hearing) It has come 01:27:11.989 --> 01:27:20.359 to my attention that the stakeholder awareness of the 01:27:20.369 --> 01:27:24.890 upcoming budget related hearing for the ERCOT budget 01:27:24.899 --> 01:27:30.509 is not exactly well known. It, it was not posted to 01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:34.708 our Commission website as a, as an event. But it was 01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:44.378 posted under the Project No. Which is Project 38533, 01:27:44.588 --> 01:27:49.939 Control No. 38533. This is one of those items that. 01:27:50.739 --> 01:27:54.739 Look I, I've told people I'm interested in industry, 01:27:54.750 --> 01:27:58.520 market and stakeholder feedback, and questions around 01:27:58.899 --> 01:28:02.250 the system administration fee. This is one of those 01:28:02.259 --> 01:28:05.489 core functions that the PUC does in interrelation with 01:28:05.628 --> 01:28:10.159 ERCOT and a core part of our relationship. The magnitude 01:28:10.168 --> 01:28:16.039 of the increase is, is significant. And I, I want to 01:28:16.048 --> 01:28:19.560 hear from stakeholders. We, we so far have heard nothing 01:28:19.569 --> 01:28:24.119 about that within the ERCOT process, voted out unanimously 01:28:24.789 --> 01:28:32.640 with within those, those groups. Um I'd like to know a little 01:28:32.649 --> 01:28:36.329 bit more detail about if there are questions or concerns. 01:28:36.338 --> 01:28:39.859 And then how that affects the Commission's deliberations. 01:28:39.869 --> 01:28:43.259 So I want to highlight for everybody if I may. That 01:28:43.270 --> 01:28:47.989 tomorrow Friday, October 13, 2023 at 9:30am in 01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:53.789 this room. There will be a hearing to discuss the system 01:28:53.798 --> 01:28:58.000 administration fee increase in ERCOT's budget. I'd 01:28:58.009 --> 01:29:02.109 like to hear that there are questions asked around 01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:06.009 this topic. Because this is a weighty decision on the 01:29:06.020 --> 01:29:08.810 part of the Commission and we need to have those facts. 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:13.020 But thank you for humoring me on that. Madam Chair. Okay. 01:29:13.298 --> 01:29:21.048 So tomorrow, on Friday at 9:30am. In this room. Hearing on the budget 01:29:21.418 --> 01:29:26.470 ERCOT will be laying out all of the um, I guess ask 01:29:26.479 --> 01:29:30.060 for the coming two years. And be giving information 01:29:30.069 --> 01:29:33.579 regarding what those tasks are, that kind of go into 01:29:33.708 --> 01:29:37.220 the fee that you discuss. So, so again I'd repeat 01:29:37.270 --> 01:29:42.180 market wake up. We need engagement and we need feedback 01:29:42.189 --> 01:29:45.259 from a Commissioner's point of view. This is important 01:29:45.270 --> 01:29:47.859 as, as most of these things are. But at the year end 01:29:47.949 --> 01:29:50.600 we're taking on some weighty issues and, and we need 01:29:50.609 --> 01:29:53.909 their engagement. (item:28:Thomas Gleeson, PUC Executive Director gives information on ERCOT Budget Hearing) And Madam Chair, if I might just provide 01:29:53.918 --> 01:29:55.989 just a little more detail. So that hearing will be 01:29:56.000 --> 01:30:00.100 administered by our agency counsel, Kasey Feldman. ERCOT will 01:30:00.109 --> 01:30:03.600 be here to give a brief budget presentation and then 01:30:03.609 --> 01:30:06.359 we'll, we'll have the hearing part after that. Thank 01:30:06.588 --> 01:30:09.899 you. Is it worth having Staff post on the website? 01:30:09.909 --> 01:30:12.338 The information about I don't, I mean, I guess you 01:30:12.350 --> 01:30:15.350 said that it wasn't posted. So yeah, and it typically 01:30:15.359 --> 01:30:17.869 is Commissioner Cobos. I think there was just an oversight. 01:30:17.878 --> 01:30:20.168 We, I think accidentally posted a different meeting 01:30:20.180 --> 01:30:22.878 on that day than, than what should have been. So, we're 01:30:22.890 --> 01:30:25.838 we're rectifying that right now. No problem. Thank 01:30:25.958 --> 01:30:30.909 you. Okay. I don't have anything on Item No. 29. (item:30:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project No. 54446) Next 01:30:30.918 --> 01:30:36.189 up is Item No. 30, Project No. 54446. Today we'll 01:30:36.199 --> 01:30:39.680 be discussing the Commission's Fiscal year 2024 Internal 01:30:39.689 --> 01:30:42.989 Audit plan and Internal Audit Charter. Shelah, do we 01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:45.579 have anyone from the public signed up to speak on Item 01:30:45.588 --> 01:30:49.520 No. 30? (item:30:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No, ma'am. Okay. Today we have uh Nicky Carter 01:30:49.529 --> 01:30:53.310 with PUC Staff here. Nicky, if you would please 01:30:53.319 --> 01:30:56.369 state your name for the record. (item:30:Nicky Carter, PUC Internal Audit Division on FY '24 Plan and Internal Audit Charter) Good morning. I'm Nicky 01:30:56.378 --> 01:30:59.529 Carter with the Internal Audit Division for the Commission. 01:31:01.168 --> 01:31:03.668 I'm here this morning requesting approval of the Fiscal 01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.609 Year '24 Internal Audit Plan and the Internal Audit 01:31:06.619 --> 01:31:10.189 Charter. Before I begin, I just want to take this opportunity 01:31:10.350 --> 01:31:13.548 to express my sincere appreciation to Staff, Management, 01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:17.100 Executive Administration and the Commission. For participating 01:31:17.109 --> 01:31:20.319 in this year's risk assessment process and for contributing 01:31:20.329 --> 01:31:22.500 towards the development of this year's audit plan. 01:31:22.979 --> 01:31:25.338 The Commission's internal audit program is carried 01:31:25.350 --> 01:31:27.859 out with objectivity and independence. And we have the 01:31:27.869 --> 01:31:31.048 resources that are necessary to carry out what's outlined 01:31:31.060 --> 01:31:34.350 in this plan. The Texas Internal Auditing Act, as well 01:31:34.359 --> 01:31:36.979 as the professional auditing standards require the 01:31:36.989 --> 01:31:39.739 development of an audit plan that's based on a systematic 01:31:39.750 --> 01:31:43.509 assessment of risk for the agency. The act also requires 01:31:43.520 --> 01:31:46.729 that the plan be presented to the Commission for approval. 01:31:46.739 --> 01:31:49.729 A risk based methodology was used to prioritize audit 01:31:49.739 --> 01:31:53.369 coverage for Fiscal Year 24 and agency operations were 01:31:53.378 --> 01:31:57.048 analyzed based on multiple risk factors. We've incorporated 01:31:57.060 --> 01:31:59.509 input from each of the Commissioners from Executive 01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:03.079 Administration, Agency Management as well as key Staff 01:32:03.088 --> 01:32:06.918 into this analysis. The FY '24 Plan consists of the 01:32:06.930 --> 01:32:10.298 following audit projects. The first one is a risk based 01:32:10.310 --> 01:32:13.720 audit of the consumer complaint process and the second 01:32:13.729 --> 01:32:16.250 one will be a carry forward audit of compliance with 01:32:16.259 --> 01:32:19.470 select Texas Administrative Code Chapter 202. Which 01:32:19.479 --> 01:32:22.560 is information security standards. The plan will also 01:32:22.569 --> 01:32:26.609 include follow up on work prior for audit recommendations 01:32:26.619 --> 01:32:30.020 consultations, investigative reviews and other administrative 01:32:30.029 --> 01:32:33.208 audit activities. In addition, the professional auditing 01:32:33.220 --> 01:32:36.500 standards also require us to document the purpose, 01:32:36.509 --> 01:32:39.250 the authority and responsibility of all internal audit 01:32:39.259 --> 01:32:43.168 activities and to be formally defined in an audit charter. 01:32:43.479 --> 01:32:45.729 That is consistent with the definition of internal 01:32:45.739 --> 01:32:49.048 auditing, the Code of Ethics and the standards. The 01:32:49.060 --> 01:32:51.548 charter must be presented to the Commission and Executive 01:32:51.560 --> 01:32:54.649 Administration for approval also. In accordance with 01:32:54.659 --> 01:32:57.289 these requirements, internal audit is requesting approval 01:32:57.298 --> 01:33:00.930 of the FY '24 Plan, as well as the Internal Audit 01:33:00.939 --> 01:33:02.899 Charter. And we'll be more than happy to answer any 01:33:02.909 --> 01:33:03.989 questions that you have. 01:33:05.770 --> 01:33:08.159 (item:30:Chairwoman Jackson on FY '24 Plan) Thank you so much for your presentation. As you mentioned 01:33:08.390 --> 01:33:11.020 this is a thorough and independent process based on 01:33:11.029 --> 01:33:15.390 a risk based methodology. And uh really, really glad 01:33:15.399 --> 01:33:18.479 to have uh to have you on Board. And uh, I think 01:33:18.489 --> 01:33:22.810 it's been uh, a very uh, intense uh, indulgent process. 01:33:22.819 --> 01:33:25.250 So far as well as, you know, you have your new Staff 01:33:25.259 --> 01:33:29.520 member here. So um, anyway I just really, really 01:33:29.529 --> 01:33:31.600 appreciate all the work that you've done and look forward 01:33:31.609 --> 01:33:33.909 to working with you and the value that I think you 01:33:33.918 --> 01:33:39.810 bring, um to, to the PUC. Thank you. (item:30:Commissioner Glotfelty on FY '24 Plan) I totally agree. 01:33:39.819 --> 01:33:43.439 I think it's professional. I think it's on top of every 01:33:43.449 --> 01:33:47.739 issue and I just applaud your efforts here. I think 01:33:47.750 --> 01:33:51.588 it's uh for audits that I've seen for audit plans that 01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:53.859 I've seen. It's, it's a pretty darn good model and 01:33:53.869 --> 01:33:57.838 you've done it, you've done it great. (item:30:Commissioner McAdams on FY '24 Plan) Very systematic, 01:33:58.369 --> 01:33:59.640 incorporating 01:34:01.270 --> 01:34:04.600 priorities and surveys of the entire agency by division. 01:34:04.970 --> 01:34:08.890 It ably address, addresses what we were required to 01:34:08.899 --> 01:34:12.649 do by statute, But also what we believe those highest 01:34:12.659 --> 01:34:15.720 threat areas are so that we can continue to refine 01:34:15.729 --> 01:34:18.418 our processes and work through those issues. So this 01:34:18.430 --> 01:34:21.128 is great, Nicky. I, I applaud ya. (item:30:Commissioner Cobos on FY '24 Plan) Yeah, Nicky. Thank 01:34:21.140 --> 01:34:23.168 you for all your hard work. Your work has been very 01:34:23.180 --> 01:34:27.298 impressive. Your methodology, your attention to um 01:34:27.310 --> 01:34:30.529 all the different areas um that you've highlighted 01:34:30.539 --> 01:34:33.909 to us. Just very impressed with your work and um welcome 01:34:33.918 --> 01:34:35.939 aboard to your new Staff member. And what is your name? 01:34:36.378 --> 01:34:39.699 Barbette Mace. Barbette, welcome. And um look forward 01:34:39.708 --> 01:34:41.859 to continuing to working with you, um very impressive 01:34:41.869 --> 01:34:45.878 work. Thank you. (item:30:Motion to approve Fiscal year 2024 Internal Audit Plan and the Internal Audit Charter) I would entertain a motion to approve 01:34:45.890 --> 01:34:49.640 the Fiscal year 2024 Internal Audit Plan and the Internal 01:34:49.649 --> 01:34:53.069 Audit Charter. So moved. Second. Motion and a second. 01:34:53.079 --> 01:34:57.489 All in favor, say aye. Aye. Motion passes. Uh, I don't have 01:34:57.500 --> 01:35:02.289 anything on Item 31. Item 32 will not be taken up. (item:33:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Project No. 55156) Next 01:35:02.298 --> 01:35:06.930 up is Item No. 33, Project No. 55156. Shelah, 01:35:06.939 --> 01:35:09.109 do we have anyone from the public signed up to speak 01:35:09.119 --> 01:35:12.779 on Item No. 33? (item:33:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No, ma'am, Commissioner Cobos, she 01:35:12.789 --> 01:35:15.470 filed a memo. Would you please lay out your thoughts? 01:35:16.079 --> 01:35:18.909 (item:33:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on her memo) Yes, Madam Chair. So my memo is pretty straightforward 01:35:19.918 --> 01:35:23.720 you know, I lay the context behind House Bill 5066 01:35:23.729 --> 01:35:28.029 in the addition of new Section 39.167. But ultimately 01:35:28.039 --> 01:35:31.189 um you know, I just want to direct um have the Commission 01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:33.829 direct Staff to open a new projects. That will serve 01:35:33.838 --> 01:35:35.909 as a repository for all the filings related to the 01:35:35.918 --> 01:35:39.500 implementation of 39.167. That's related to the 01:35:39.548 --> 01:35:41.798 you know, uh development of the reliability plan for 01:35:41.810 --> 01:35:46.859 the Permian Basin. Um secondly, um I want to recommend 01:35:46.869 --> 01:35:49.009 that the Commission set a deadline of December 1, 01:35:49.020 --> 01:35:54.069 2023. For the applicable TSPs to submit the customer 01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:58.359 Load data to ERCOT. Um this is not the formal directive. 01:35:58.369 --> 01:36:03.859 This is just um a necessary step to um ensure that 01:36:03.869 --> 01:36:06.149 the developers out in the Permian Basin. The oil 01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:09.939 and gas developers, stakeholders um get this information 01:36:09.949 --> 01:36:14.979 to their TDUs. So that the applicable TDUs, TSPs out 01:36:14.989 --> 01:36:19.439 there. Can provide that data to ERCOT on a timely basis. 01:36:19.449 --> 01:36:22.060 That will fit into the timeline that will be rolled 01:36:22.069 --> 01:36:25.259 out later. And it it this information, the customer 01:36:25.270 --> 01:36:28.819 Load data is, is critically important um for ERCOT's 01:36:28.829 --> 01:36:31.789 ultimate development of a Permian Basin reliability 01:36:31.798 --> 01:36:34.649 plan. So I just wanted to, to get that deadline out 01:36:34.659 --> 01:36:38.640 there. So um we get that process going while we await 01:36:38.649 --> 01:36:42.359 the directive. (item:33:Commissioner Glotfelty's thoughts on memo) I'm totally supportive of this. I totally 01:36:42.369 --> 01:36:46.369 believe that I appreciate that you've taken this so 01:36:46.378 --> 01:36:50.039 quickly. And you know, this is something that folks 01:36:50.048 --> 01:36:55.439 in the Permian have been eager to solve for the last 01:36:55.449 --> 01:37:00.520 four years or more. And it's only going to continue 01:37:00.529 --> 01:37:07.489 to get worse as that area grows as a oil supply region 01:37:07.500 --> 01:37:12.779 for the world and gas. I will say that as part of 01:37:12.789 --> 01:37:15.640 this, my discussions with ERCOT, with Woody specifically 01:37:15.649 --> 01:37:19.479 is. We are going to be able to do planning here on 01:37:19.489 --> 01:37:22.140 the transmission side. We still have a generation problem 01:37:22.149 --> 01:37:24.569 over there. So those those discussions are going to 01:37:24.579 --> 01:37:27.619 have to come in as well as how much generation is needed 01:37:27.628 --> 01:37:30.619 across the system and how much generation will be needed. 01:37:30.628 --> 01:37:32.939 I know the Chairman mentioned this last time as well. 01:37:33.539 --> 01:37:35.789 But we've got to get this kicked off and I applaud 01:37:35.798 --> 01:37:38.470 you for doing this. I'm totally supportive of it. All 01:37:38.560 --> 01:37:42.759 right. (item:33:Connie Corona with Commission Staff's clarification on project) Commissioner just to make a clarification. We 01:37:42.770 --> 01:37:47.859 have an open project for regional transmission reliability 01:37:47.869 --> 01:37:50.958 plans generally. And you're requesting that we open 01:37:50.970 --> 01:37:54.199 one for the Permian specifically and we will do that. Yes. 01:37:55.289 --> 01:37:58.048 Thank you and post it on the next open meeting. Yes 01:37:58.180 --> 01:38:03.449 ma'am, thank you. Good deal. Very good. (item:34:Chairwoman Jackson lays out Standing Item for Agency Administrative Issues) Next up is 01:38:03.458 --> 01:38:06.930 Item No. 34. Our Standing Item for Agency Administrative 01:38:06.939 --> 01:38:09.270 Issues. Shelah, do we have anyone from the public sign 01:38:09.279 --> 01:38:12.579 up to speak on Item No. 34? (item:34:Shelah Cisneros with Commission Counsel confirms there are no public comments) No, ma'am. Thomas. I 01:38:12.588 --> 01:38:14.319 believe you have an update for us. Yes, ma'am. (item:17:Thomas Gleeson, PUC Executive Director gives updates on TX Energy Fund & Winter Prep) Thank 01:38:14.329 --> 01:38:16.720 you, Madam Chair. Just two items this morning. First, 01:38:17.628 --> 01:38:19.890 a reminder. So we're, we're and we've discussed this 01:38:19.899 --> 01:38:23.548 with you all. The Texas Energy Fund which was passed 01:38:23.560 --> 01:38:26.989 last Session in Senate Bill 2627 and which is up for 01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:31.668 a vote by Texans in November. Uh the projects and programs 01:38:31.680 --> 01:38:34.359 in that we have to get started on. It's a huge 01:38:34.369 --> 01:38:39.020 task. So we are issuing an RFP to hire a firm to 01:38:39.029 --> 01:38:43.079 help us administer those programs and that fund. Um 01:38:43.088 --> 01:38:46.539 we anticipate publishing that on October 17. So this 01:38:46.548 --> 01:38:49.319 is really an advertisement for firms interested. That 01:38:49.329 --> 01:38:51.350 believe they can help us do that work to, to be on 01:38:51.359 --> 01:38:54.418 the lookout for that um for that solicitation. So that 01:38:54.430 --> 01:38:57.699 they can hopefully submit bids to help us get those 01:38:57.708 --> 01:38:59.439 programs off the ground up and running. Because the 01:38:59.449 --> 01:39:01.949 timelines on, on a couple of those programs are 01:39:01.958 --> 01:39:05.430 extremely short. We'll also be holding a bidder's conference 01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:08.689 to have a collaborative discussion with firms interested 01:39:08.699 --> 01:39:13.338 in this sometime shortly after that RFP is issued. Secondly, 01:39:13.359 --> 01:39:16.859 as what was discussed earlier. The Winter prep work 01:39:16.869 --> 01:39:19.979 session on the 20. Yesterday, Staff filed a memo in 01:39:19.989 --> 01:39:24.359 Project 55633. Kind of outlining and detailing what 01:39:24.369 --> 01:39:27.259 the topics are gonna be. We plan to file the specific 01:39:27.270 --> 01:39:31.779 agenda in the Texas Register later today. So the basic 01:39:31.789 --> 01:39:34.989 thought is we'll hear from ERCOT, TDUs, generators on 01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:37.759 what their Winter weather prep has been. We're also 01:39:37.770 --> 01:39:42.100 gonna have a certain part of that devoted to ERCOT. Talking 01:39:42.109 --> 01:39:45.168 about the RFP for capacity that they put out that was 01:39:45.180 --> 01:39:48.359 discussed earlier as well. Um It is a public meeting. 01:39:48.369 --> 01:39:52.310 It will be posted as, as an open meeting. So public 01:39:52.319 --> 01:39:55.399 participation is, is gonna happen. We'll have public 01:39:55.409 --> 01:39:58.810 comment sections for, for those items. Um and the only 01:39:58.819 --> 01:40:01.289 other thing I'd say on that is it's, it's going to 01:40:01.298 --> 01:40:04.708 be a robust detailed agenda. So we plan to post it 01:40:04.720 --> 01:40:07.899 from 8 a.m. till 5 p.m. and I would tell everyone to 01:40:07.909 --> 01:40:08.979 expect to be there all day. 01:40:11.930 --> 01:40:16.949 (item:34:Commissioner McAdams' thoughts on RFP and Winter plans) Yes, ma'am. I think this is, this is an excellent opportunity 01:40:17.569 --> 01:40:20.680 for the system to demonstrate all that we have done. 01:40:21.310 --> 01:40:24.350 And to stress for our market participants how important 01:40:24.359 --> 01:40:28.168 it is that you ably comply with existing Commission 01:40:28.180 --> 01:40:33.963 rules, ERCOT protocols. In preparation for Winter months. 01:40:34.234 --> 01:40:36.463 I think that it will be an excellent opportunity to 01:40:36.475 --> 01:40:43.095 flesh out ERCOT's concept behind the capacity driven 01:40:43.104 --> 01:40:47.185 RFP which they have issued. And demonstrate for the 01:40:47.194 --> 01:40:50.774 public that we do have plans moving into Winter to 01:40:50.784 --> 01:40:54.725 help satisfy and overcome potential challenges brought 01:40:54.734 --> 01:40:58.838 on by increasing demand on the system. I think it's 01:40:58.850 --> 01:41:03.390 also look the questions to the RFP have been rolling 01:41:03.399 --> 01:41:07.149 in for ERCOT's purposes before their technical workshop. 01:41:07.159 --> 01:41:11.439 Will be, which will be encompassed into our proceeding. 01:41:11.890 --> 01:41:15.729 And some of the questions are excellent and I look 01:41:15.739 --> 01:41:18.189 forward to the answers. One of which I would point 01:41:18.199 --> 01:41:21.509 out is your current timeline does not align with ERS 01:41:21.569 --> 01:41:24.708 procurement. This creates the very real risk that sites 01:41:24.720 --> 01:41:28.088 did not clear either capacity. Oh, they aren't public. 01:41:28.390 --> 01:41:29.449 I'll shut up. 01:41:31.548 --> 01:41:36.199 Bottom line is we will learn how, how this is going 01:41:36.208 --> 01:41:40.449 to work. And we will learn how it's harmonized with 01:41:40.838 --> 01:41:46.220 ERS and other programs that exist in the system. And how 01:41:46.229 --> 01:41:49.899 each of these capabilities complement each other to 01:41:49.909 --> 01:41:54.298 work in a coherent and market driven way. Going into 01:41:54.310 --> 01:41:57.798 peak demand on a seasonal basis. So this will prove 01:41:57.810 --> 01:42:01.220 to be a template not just for this Winter but for other 01:42:01.229 --> 01:42:05.338 seasons in the future. Especially going into a period 01:42:05.350 --> 01:42:07.529 where the Legislative framework will begin to come 01:42:07.539 --> 01:42:11.609 into play. House Bill 2627 in the Load program will 01:42:11.619 --> 01:42:15.418 come into view pending voter approval in November. 01:42:16.279 --> 01:42:20.220 But um this is our opportunity to talk through how 01:42:20.229 --> 01:42:24.199 all this can work in concert. And uh I, I believe this 01:42:24.208 --> 01:42:26.539 is uh we will rise to the occasion. 01:42:28.949 --> 01:42:31.350 Great commentary, Commissioner McAdams. (item:34:Commissioner Cobos' thoughts on Winter reliability and resiliency) I think that's really 01:42:31.359 --> 01:42:35.279 important to highlight all of the actions that we have 01:42:35.289 --> 01:42:39.500 taken since Legislative Session 21, post Uri. You 01:42:39.509 --> 01:42:43.350 know with, with respect to actions for Winter reliability 01:42:43.359 --> 01:42:47.628 and resiliency. And with a further exploration into 01:42:47.759 --> 01:42:53.060 ERCOT's RFP uh for capacity. And um providing more um 01:42:53.069 --> 01:42:55.939 transparency to everybody involved. Um the commission 01:42:55.949 --> 01:42:58.109 or, you know, the stakeholders out there and have a 01:42:58.119 --> 01:43:03.208 robust discussion on um this concept. And, and um hopefully 01:43:03.220 --> 01:43:07.699 um you know, package that up. So that um we can at 01:43:07.708 --> 01:43:11.548 some point look back and do lessons learned. And figure 01:43:11.560 --> 01:43:14.140 out what we need to do next with respect to um regulatory 01:43:14.149 --> 01:43:18.680 due diligence with the overall RFP capacity. Um driven 01:43:18.819 --> 01:43:22.899 um initiative that ERCOT has put out. Um So thank you 01:43:22.909 --> 01:43:25.609 for your comments. I think that's important to highlight. 01:43:26.939 --> 01:43:31.479 (item:34:Chairman Jackson's final thoughts) I'm very excited about the uh upcoming um workshop. 01:43:31.619 --> 01:43:33.838 I think it's an excellent opportunity for ERCOT to 01:43:33.850 --> 01:43:37.560 come in and give us an update on what what we're looking 01:43:37.569 --> 01:43:41.229 at in terms of the upcoming Winter. So that again, 01:43:41.239 --> 01:43:44.899 we, we're prepared um and key. And again the, the 01:43:44.909 --> 01:43:48.529 key part I think of the workshop is preparedness, um 01:43:48.668 --> 01:43:51.819 thinking about, you know, what tools we have, but also 01:43:51.829 --> 01:43:54.140 what other tools might be available to us or how we 01:43:54.149 --> 01:43:57.479 can expand some of our existing tools, particularly 01:43:57.489 --> 01:44:01.259 demand response. So uh again, just kind of putting 01:44:01.270 --> 01:44:04.259 everything out there ahead of time so that we're, we're 01:44:04.270 --> 01:44:07.720 totally thinking about it and that we are totally prepared 01:44:07.729 --> 01:44:12.390 So look forward to ERCOT or, or look forward to, you 01:44:12.399 --> 01:44:14.479 know, the folks who will be coming in and kind of sharing. 01:44:14.489 --> 01:44:17.479 What their existing programs and their thoughts and 01:44:17.489 --> 01:44:20.128 ideas kind of moving forward. I would highlight Madam 01:44:20.140 --> 01:44:23.319 Chair if I could. Is we're saying the word opportunity 01:44:23.329 --> 01:44:26.149 and overcoming challenges a lot. But this is an opportunity 01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:29.140 a feature of this workshop and the outcomes produced 01:44:29.149 --> 01:44:33.128 of it and from ERCOT's perspective. The proposed RFP 01:44:33.338 --> 01:44:38.369 is to expand the pool of existing demand side alternatives. 01:44:38.659 --> 01:44:42.548 For this season but also as a, as a test case, certainly 01:44:42.560 --> 01:44:48.270 for the future beyond the current pool of market participants 01:44:48.279 --> 01:44:50.770 that are very familiar with ERCOT systems. Again, we're 01:44:50.779 --> 01:44:56.560 trying to educate and broaden the pool. And I think 01:44:56.569 --> 01:45:00.279 that is absolutely something this Commission has been 01:45:00.289 --> 01:45:02.680 interested in over the last 2 1/2 years that we have 01:45:02.689 --> 01:45:06.319 been together. And, and as a clear answer to the challenges 01:45:06.329 --> 01:45:08.759 presented by Winter Storm Uri, Winter Storm Elliott. 01:45:09.640 --> 01:45:13.350 And and those other high demand periods that, that 01:45:13.359 --> 01:45:15.409 we know we will experience again at some point in the 01:45:15.418 --> 01:45:18.229 future. So did you have anything else? Just one other 01:45:18.239 --> 01:45:21.029 one other thing on this. (item:34:Thomas Gleeson sharing meeting will be livestreamed) It will be live streamed on 01:45:21.039 --> 01:45:24.069 Texas Admin. For, so for anyone who can't make portions 01:45:24.079 --> 01:45:27.270 or all of it. It will be live streamed there and archived. 01:45:28.029 --> 01:45:30.779 Excellent. Rebecca approach, she may have something 01:45:30.789 --> 01:45:32.798 to say to you. (item:34:Rebecca Zerwas, ERCOT gives clarification for Commissioner McAdams) I just want to clarify, Commissioner 01:45:32.930 --> 01:45:35.930 McAdams. You did not misspeak, the questions are public. 01:45:35.939 --> 01:45:38.789 They're posted to the ERCOT RFP page. Good, thank you. I appreciate 01:45:39.489 --> 01:45:41.128 that. All of the questions should have been added to that 01:45:41.430 --> 01:45:42.708 one. Well, it was a good question. You're going to hear 01:45:42.720 --> 01:45:43.529 about it on next Friday. 01:45:45.088 --> 01:45:48.479 Ok, very good. I don't have anything on Items 35 or 01:45:48.489 --> 01:45:53.159 36. (item:37:Chairwoman Jackson pauses Open Meeting, to hold Closed Session) This brings us to Item No. 37, Closed Session. 01:45:53.470 --> 01:45:56.399 Having convened in a duly noticed open meeting. The 01:45:56.409 --> 01:46:01.640 Commission will now at 11:25 on October 12, 2023. 01:46:01.734 --> 01:46:04.114 Hold a Closed Session to discuss personnel matters 01:46:04.125 --> 01:46:07.975 pursuant to Chapter 551 of the Texas Government Code 01:46:07.984 --> 01:46:16.895 sections 551.071, 551.074 and 551.076. We'll be back 01:46:16.904 --> 01:46:18.305 in a few minutes. Thank you. 01:46:22.979 --> 01:46:27.409 (item:37:Chairwoman Jackson concludes Closed Session, Public Meeting resumed) The Closed Session is hereby concluded at 11:46 on 01:46:27.418 --> 01:46:30.890 October 12, 2023 and the Commission will resume its 01:46:30.899 --> 01:46:33.470 Public Meeting. The Commission will take no action 01:46:33.479 --> 01:46:36.319 as a result of Closed Session deliberations. There 01:46:36.329 --> 01:46:38.689 being no further business to come before the Commission. 01:46:38.699 --> 01:46:41.128 (item:37:Chairwoman Jackson adjourns meeting) This meeting of the Public Utility Commission of Texas 01:46:41.140 --> 01:46:44.359 is hereby adjourned at 11:46am.