WEBVTT 00:00:07.940 --> 00:00:10.279 Good morning. This meeting of the Public utility Commission 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:12.429 of texas will come to order to consider matters that 00:00:12.429 --> 00:00:14.429 have been duly posted with the secretary of State of 00:00:14.429 --> 00:00:18.469 texas for january 27th 2022 for the record. My name 00:00:18.469 --> 00:00:21.210 is Peter Lake and with me today. Or will Mcadams, Lori 00:00:21.210 --> 00:00:24.250 Cobos and jimmy Glodfelty. Mr johnny. Could you please 00:00:24.250 --> 00:00:26.920 start us off with our consent agenda? Good morning 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.620 (item:1) Commissioners by individual ballot. The following items 00:00:29.620 --> 00:00:37.039 were placed on your consent agenda 1, 14 15, 17 20, 21 23 00:00:37.049 --> 00:00:38.159 and 24. 00:00:39.729 --> 00:00:41.609 Is there a motion to approve the items just described 00:00:41.609 --> 00:00:46.270 by Mr. Your name? Second, all in favor say, aye. None 00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:50.350 opposed the motion passes as a reminder before we begin 00:00:50.350 --> 00:00:53.429 today's proceedings. I'd like to remind parties and 00:00:53.429 --> 00:00:55.560 stakeholders they should not approach the table unless 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.840 oral arguments have been granted or they have been 00:00:58.850 --> 00:01:03.009 invited by a commissioner. At this point we will open 00:01:03.009 --> 00:01:06.530 for public comment. Oral comments related to. A specific 00:01:06.540 --> 00:01:09.650 agenda item will be heard when that item is taken up 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.349 This segment is for general comments. Only speakers 00:01:13.349 --> 00:01:15.430 will be limited to three minutes. Mr johnny. Do we 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:19.450 have anyone from the public signed up to speak? Yes 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:23.000 sir. Michelle Brandon has signed up to speak. MS Brandon 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:23.760 Please come on up. 00:01:38.140 --> 00:01:41.239 Good morning Commissioners. My name is Michelle Brannan 00:01:41.250 --> 00:01:44.760 and I am the co founder of Power Line safety Initiative 00:01:45.340 --> 00:01:48.250 I'm also a mother of Will Brandon. I'm here today with 00:01:48.260 --> 00:01:51.959 my husband and our new research assistant Catherine 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:55.859 Thank you. We want to thank you for your continued 00:01:55.859 --> 00:01:58.359 support and opportunity to speak here this morning 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:04.760 We are here to discuss project 52667 which is the 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:10.770 utility filings concerning Compliance with Pura 38.004 00:02:10.780 --> 00:02:14.389 power line height compliance over bodies of water. 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:18.020 Four years ago, our sun and two of his friends were 00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:20.960 fatally electrocuted while sailing when their mast 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.439 hit a power line. The power line was significantly 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.590 lower than the heights required by the National Electric 00:02:27.590 --> 00:02:31.580 Safety code. After the initial incident, we were assured 00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:35.000 by industry experts that low power lines and related 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:39.069 fatalities were rare occurrences. We asked to see the 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:41.930 proof, but there was none because the utilities were 00:02:41.930 --> 00:02:45.360 not required by law to inspect their lines, collect 00:02:45.370 --> 00:02:51.310 data or publicly report on such things. In 2019 the 00:02:51.310 --> 00:02:56.069 legislature this commission and interested stakeholders 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:00.099 came together to write and pass legislation that resulted 00:03:00.099 --> 00:03:03.740 in new trainings inspections reporting requirements 00:03:04.340 --> 00:03:07.300 The new law also required that the height of power 00:03:07.300 --> 00:03:12.509 lines over water at 172 listed lakes be verified and 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:18.699 if needed Fixed by December 31, 2021. New laws are 00:03:18.699 --> 00:03:22.900 great. The hard part is enforcing them. Over the past 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:26.409 two years, the puc has collected and reviewed the reports 00:03:26.409 --> 00:03:29.699 required by the William thomas Heath Power line Safety 00:03:29.699 --> 00:03:33.139 Act. These reports have provided the information the 00:03:33.139 --> 00:03:37.449 puc and the public need to assess power line safety 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:42.129 We appreciate all the utilities, all that the utilities 00:03:42.129 --> 00:03:47.969 have put, I'm sorry. We appreciate all the utilities 00:03:48.020 --> 00:03:50.560 that have put time and effort into following the new 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.250 legislation creating new inspection processes, training 00:03:54.250 --> 00:03:58.310 employees finding solutions for low hanging lines and 00:03:58.310 --> 00:04:02.650 self reporting the ones that are not fixed yet. We 00:04:02.650 --> 00:04:05.509 will never know how many lives this legislation has 00:04:05.509 --> 00:04:11.120 saved the latest set of reports, concern over water 00:04:11.129 --> 00:04:16.139 line height requirements and in compliance. So you 00:04:16.139 --> 00:04:20.329 guys probably know this but so far by our count, 52 00:04:20.329 --> 00:04:23.569 utilities have submitted the required compliance at 00:04:23.569 --> 00:04:26.850 test stations. These reports are accessible to the 00:04:26.850 --> 00:04:30.860 public. So we have read every report submitted today 00:04:31.339 --> 00:04:33.959 Many of the utilities verified that all their power 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:37.149 lines are compliant. The reports show that several 00:04:37.149 --> 00:04:41.420 utilities located and fixed non compliant lines before 00:04:41.420 --> 00:04:45.129 the, before the deadline. We know that some of the 00:04:45.129 --> 00:04:48.569 utilities invested in new technologies such as lidar 00:04:48.579 --> 00:04:53.170 Just to complete these surveys. However, 20% of the 00:04:53.170 --> 00:04:56.870 utilities reported that they still have noncompliant 00:04:56.870 --> 00:05:03.540 lines By our count as of 1231, 30 lakes in Texas have 00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:07.000 at least one non compliant power line crossing their 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:07.500 lakes 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.160 crossing the water. This contradicts the claim that 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:17.519 low power lines are rare occurrences. We appreciate 00:05:17.529 --> 00:05:21.339 the financial burden and regulatory complexity of correcting 00:05:21.339 --> 00:05:25.079 these noncompliant power lines. Projects like these 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:28.529 can take years to complete. However, these lines are 00:05:28.529 --> 00:05:33.319 still dangerous and pose deadly hazards for the unsuspecting 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:38.290 public. That is why we are here today. Our organization's 00:05:38.290 --> 00:05:42.089 mission is to use legislative action, industry oversight 00:05:42.100 --> 00:05:46.389 and public education to prevent another family from 00:05:46.389 --> 00:05:50.449 experiencing our loss. We're here to ask the puc to 00:05:50.449 --> 00:05:53.810 require utilities to provide corrective action plans 00:05:53.810 --> 00:05:58.269 That detail how hazards will be remediated until the 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:02.680 lines can be permanently brought into compliance. We 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.980 think hazard remediation should include warning signs 00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:11.209 buoys and line markers as well as notification of lake 00:06:11.209 --> 00:06:15.069 operators, county officials, local emergency services 00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:20.029 and law enforcement. The Power line Safety initiative 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.629 is currently working with the recreational boating 00:06:22.629 --> 00:06:26.730 community to develop resources for lake managers, utilities 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:30.490 and the public. We have also recently spoken with a 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:34.540 state representative who wants to discuss funding solutions 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:38.199 for small utilities who might need assistance, pain 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:42.170 for line remediation. We would welcome any opportunity 00:06:42.170 --> 00:06:46.490 to discuss and share these resources. In conclusion 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:49.990 we want to applaud the commitment of the public utility 00:06:49.990 --> 00:06:53.459 commission and our texas, utilities to power line safety 00:06:54.139 --> 00:06:59.569 Together we are saving lives, look up and live. We 00:06:59.569 --> 00:07:05.350 have here our new logo and slogan. So this is gonna 00:07:05.350 --> 00:07:10.899 be featured prominently. Hopefully with um any materials 00:07:10.899 --> 00:07:11.860 we can help develop. 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:16.160 I'd be welcome to take any questions if you have them 00:07:16.540 --> 00:07:18.600 Thank you mrs Brandon for being here and thank you 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:21.550 for your continued dedication to this issue. Thanks 00:07:21.939 --> 00:07:24.670 appreciate it. I would like to second that I've had 00:07:24.670 --> 00:07:27.220 the opportunity to meet you and your family the first 00:07:27.220 --> 00:07:32.790 time yesterday and and uh, your story touched my heart 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:37.310 and uh, you know, I think that, um, the word safety 00:07:37.319 --> 00:07:41.930 is in probably every utilities, uh, motto, this is 00:07:41.930 --> 00:07:44.410 what they do. They do it for their employees when they're 00:07:44.410 --> 00:07:47.730 building lines, uh, they have safety meetings, um, 00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:50.459 but we've got to make sure that it's safe for the general 00:07:50.459 --> 00:07:53.629 public as well. So I support your efforts and I would 00:07:53.629 --> 00:07:56.750 like to see what I can do to help their, their, the 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:00.170 the filings. The vast majority of them said they were 00:08:00.170 --> 00:08:02.620 not, they were not issues. They were in compliance 00:08:02.620 --> 00:08:06.500 but there were some that it seemed to me, um, to be 00:08:06.509 --> 00:08:09.029 grossly out of compliance and hopefully we can work 00:08:09.029 --> 00:08:12.220 with them to think the goal is compliance. So people 00:08:12.220 --> 00:08:15.079 don't get hurt. But thank you for your efforts. Thank 00:08:15.079 --> 00:08:16.649 you. Thank you, ma'am. 00:08:19.139 --> 00:08:21.170 Do we have anyone else? That's right. 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.920 Thank you. Mr Johnny. Public comment is now closed 00:08:26.930 --> 00:08:32.379 We will not be taking up items five and 22 today. Moving 00:08:32.379 --> 00:08:36.120 through someone was consented, which brings us to item 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:40.960 number two, you have a memo on this. (item:2) This is a follow 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:45.740 up to my discussions about The Southern Cross project 00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:48.639 trying to develop a path forward, a regulatory path 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:52.330 forward. Um, so that we can get projects like this 00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:55.490 out of regulatory limbo. Uh, this has been in that 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:59.519 state for 11 years now. Um, I'm not prejudging the 00:08:59.529 --> 00:09:02.710 value of the line. Um, I believe that these types of 00:09:02.710 --> 00:09:05.649 facilities can be very valuable to archive, especially 00:09:05.649 --> 00:09:10.419 when we have emergencies. Um I think that being in 00:09:10.419 --> 00:09:13.759 regulatory limbo is not what we it's not what good 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.360 governments about. So I'm trying to uh finalize these 00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:24.700 um directives um ERCOT in the in the the companies 00:09:24.710 --> 00:09:27.279 I think are making good progress on that. Um I think 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:30.340 ERCOT said that they expect to be finished by september 00:09:30.340 --> 00:09:35.120 of this year, hopefully sooner. Um and I think we you 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:37.200 know, our our commitment is to tell the board look 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:39.159 we wanna we wanna get the sink to the end so we 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.320 hope you all will as well. Um The there are two other 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:48.120 issues, one of them um deals with um export tariffs 00:09:48.129 --> 00:09:51.440 Um um I don't want to prejudge an issue about export 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:55.970 tariffs. Um but I want to facilitate a dialogue and 00:09:55.970 --> 00:09:59.830 a discussion and a place where this issue can be discussed 00:09:59.830 --> 00:10:03.139 among all of the parties who have an interest in this 00:10:03.139 --> 00:10:06.149 So I'm in the memo, I I've asked the staff to open 00:10:06.149 --> 00:10:10.870 up a a project released a staff draft. We've gone down 00:10:10.870 --> 00:10:15.360 this road before um and the commission chose not to 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.120 move forward a number of years ago. It's my thought 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:20.909 that we ought to move forward with this and again get 00:10:20.909 --> 00:10:24.039 some certainty here and finally the transmission planning 00:10:24.049 --> 00:10:29.519 um I tried to develop HV Dc lines in 11 states and 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:31.899 not one of them had an H. P. D. C. Interconnection 00:10:31.899 --> 00:10:34.950 process or transmission planning process. Um it is 00:10:34.950 --> 00:10:41.159 very hard um finding that pathway so they can at least 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.860 be part of that process and be considered I think is 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:48.009 important. Um ERCOT is, has started to look at, they 00:10:48.009 --> 00:10:50.980 looked at an initially a dc line as part of the process 00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:54.419 Um they're looking at one from west texas into central 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:57.870 texas. Um these things are likely to come more and 00:10:57.870 --> 00:11:01.309 more so we, I believe that we ought to have the process 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:06.639 Um and um one thing that I say is we're taking care 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.830 of our own house projects that deal with other R. T 00:11:10.830 --> 00:11:13.419 O. S and I. S. O. S and other regions. They have 00:11:13.419 --> 00:11:16.870 a much harder Barrier declined because they may have 00:11:16.870 --> 00:11:20.360 to get approval out of two or 3 different um entities 00:11:20.370 --> 00:11:24.700 And my view is let's make sure that it's it's it's 00:11:24.710 --> 00:11:27.720 understood in ours, we don't wanna waste capital, we 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:29.850 want capital spent wisely and efficiently here in our 00:11:29.850 --> 00:11:32.519 ERCOT and if we can get through these uh that would 00:11:32.529 --> 00:11:33.549 be my hope. 00:11:35.139 --> 00:11:42.500 Well mr Chairman um commissioners, I uh I have a bit 00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:45.519 of a confession to make. Um I was one of the ones 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:48.549 in 2015 that helped put southern cross in limbo 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:52.870 and I worked for the man that passed the bill that 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:57.399 required a public interest finding and conditions conditional 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.830 approval specifically for that project and uh the reason 00:12:01.830 --> 00:12:05.950 we did that is because of a prevalent fear that um 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:08.909 I agree with you and, and the statute agrees with you 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:14.879 Dc lines are different Dc ties with other ISOS are 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:21.019 supremely different and carrie a definite need for 00:12:21.019 --> 00:12:23.639 a public interest determination because if we see our 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:27.009 jurisdiction to the federal government, I'd like to 00:12:27.009 --> 00:12:29.250 remind everybody and this is going to come up in a 00:12:29.259 --> 00:12:34.419 later update that I'll give Ercot currently has 11% 00:12:34.429 --> 00:12:37.059 of the total load for the United States of America 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:42.029 and um, that means transmission costs, all kinds of 00:12:42.029 --> 00:12:45.899 costs can be allocated to that load. Um, that's a big 00:12:45.899 --> 00:12:49.690 deal for our consumers and ratepayers. So, and and 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:52.690 none of these comments are designed to uh, to attack 00:12:52.690 --> 00:12:56.580 this memo. Um, I agree with this memo. I agree that 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:59.029 Southern Cross needs to be looked at. They have complied 00:12:59.029 --> 00:13:03.629 with every condition of the statute and I believe the 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.149 commission under previous leadership and ERCOT Um, 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:11.009 and I hope that this project will be able to stand 00:13:11.009 --> 00:13:15.000 on its own or fall on its own economic merit and that's 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.850 what we should be about in texas and within ERCOT itself 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:25.629 Um, I believe that we need to reaffirm to the ERCOT 00:13:25.710 --> 00:13:29.019 that this is not opening the door for interconnections 00:13:29.029 --> 00:13:33.179 into uh, every other I s o under the country to where 00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:36.769 we are used as a donor state for everybody's wazoo 00:13:36.769 --> 00:13:41.740 transmission ideas. Um, just my thinking, appreciate 00:13:41.740 --> 00:13:42.549 the technical term. 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:49.570 What does wazoo stand for broad, definitely public 00:13:49.570 --> 00:13:54.139 interest will follow memo on that well, but appreciate 00:13:54.139 --> 00:13:54.960 the confession, 00:13:56.940 --> 00:14:01.730 but more importantly, appreciate your focus on maintaining 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:07.330 jurisdiction and independence and ensuring the public 00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:11.379 interest is served discrete connection by discrete 00:14:11.379 --> 00:14:16.990 connection not opening up um, the floodgate that would 00:14:16.990 --> 00:14:20.029 lead to federal intervention and I think that's consistent 00:14:20.029 --> 00:14:21.009 with commission block felt 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.639 commissioner outfielders intentions agree with everything 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.309 you laid out Mr covers. I I agree with all of the 00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:33.809 comments laid out and um, you know, commissioner got 00:14:33.809 --> 00:14:35.789 filthy thank you for your leadership on this issue 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.799 Um, I agree with the sentiments that Commissioner Mcadams 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:42.379 and the chairman have laid out. Um, I think we do need 00:14:42.379 --> 00:14:44.909 to create regulatory certainty and some kind of a pathway 00:14:44.909 --> 00:14:48.909 to evaluate those dc ties in the future. Um, I am glad 00:14:48.909 --> 00:14:51.169 to see that a public interest finding was added to 00:14:51.169 --> 00:14:55.190 the statute um, because these DC ties are expensive 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.379 when they are uplifted to the ratepayers in texas um 00:14:58.389 --> 00:15:01.179 recognizing that the southern cross project is a merchant 00:15:01.190 --> 00:15:05.009 tie, that the cost wouldn't be uplifted to the ratepayers 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:08.620 in texas. But as we have um, developers come in and 00:15:08.620 --> 00:15:12.509 look at building those those projects, um, seeking 00:15:12.509 --> 00:15:16.350 to um justify them as reliability Dc ties or economic 00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:19.909 dc ties. Um, that that will require our review from 00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:23.990 a ratepayer cost benefit analysis um, as well, but 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.169 I commend you for your leadership on this. I think 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:29.299 the more regulatory certainty we can provide to review 00:15:29.299 --> 00:15:34.240 transmission. ERCOT the better. Thank you. Well put 00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:38.570 I don't know we've seen what concentrated focused on 00:15:38.570 --> 00:15:42.129 leadership from this commission can do in terms of 00:15:42.129 --> 00:15:44.399 yielding results and projects that have been stuck 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:47.220 in limbo for years as a result of commissioner Cobos 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:49.929 work and I have every confidence we'll see similar 00:15:49.929 --> 00:15:52.669 results from you're focused on this issue and look 00:15:52.669 --> 00:15:55.259 forward to it. Thank you sir. 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:02.759 Next do we need to chairman? I just wanted to verify 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:05.200 part of the request and the memo was for staff to follow 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.480 discussion draft. Do you guys need to see the copy 00:16:08.490 --> 00:16:11.149 at an open meeting or his memo is pretty explicit. 00:16:11.149 --> 00:16:13.100 Staff can move forward under the direction we have 00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:17.049 now I added the copy that we discussed as part of the 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:19.070 memo and it would be my hope that we could just go 00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:22.309 forward with that for and publish it so that folks 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:23.450 can comment on that. 00:16:25.460 --> 00:16:27.200 Yeah, we we don't need your signature anything I just 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.460 wanted to make sure that you didn't. Okay, thank you 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.679 Thanks. 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.370 Okay. Alright. I don't have anything on items three 00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:39.000 through five which brings us to (item:6) item number six we 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:40.649 have two millas filed on this. 00:16:42.529 --> 00:16:46.980 Well I asked both of y'all to lay those out as well 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:50.879 Go back date of appointment 1st 60 days. 00:16:53.570 --> 00:16:57.629 Well, so mr chairman, I had hoped that the brevity 00:16:57.629 --> 00:17:02.120 of my memo spoke for itself. It was pretty direct hope 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:07.349 it wasn't too aggressive with ERCOT but as it noted 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:12.269 at the in response to our blueprint adoption in december 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:19.049 um as a part of our ERCOT reform reforms and evaluation 00:17:20.339 --> 00:17:24.819 ERCOT expressed questions on what a firm fuel ancillary 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:28.690 service should entail and they were very detailed questions 00:17:28.690 --> 00:17:32.380 and I hoped to give them detailed answers that's enshrined 00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:39.589 in the memo. Um I need to clarify one in the memo 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.480 I specified that costs associated, I'm sorry. Additionally 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:48.380 yeah, additionally, during cold weather events qualifying 00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:51.140 resources should have a must offer requirement in the 00:17:51.140 --> 00:17:57.490 day ahead ERCOT um the must offer a requirement in 00:17:57.500 --> 00:18:01.819 uh continued consultation with ERCOT it is not necessary 00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:05.809 right now um and they can come up and better clarify 00:18:05.809 --> 00:18:08.849 after they've engaged with stakeholders in those generators 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.690 they believe a little bit of flexibility on on that 00:18:13.700 --> 00:18:17.910 point um would actually help them expedite implementation 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.019 quicker. And I don't want to do anything, as you could 00:18:21.019 --> 00:18:25.119 tell from my memo to slow this project down at ERCOT 00:18:25.130 --> 00:18:30.279 or the puc. So the overarching objective was to have 00:18:30.289 --> 00:18:33.400 expeditious implementation so that we know that we 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:38.529 have our generators out there filling tanks scouring 00:18:38.529 --> 00:18:42.079 tanks, purging them building tanks in the next two 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.789 years and um I also want to say that I believe my 00:18:46.789 --> 00:18:50.240 memo and Commissioner Cobos memo are consistent with 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.930 one another um and I'll certainly let her lay hers 00:18:53.930 --> 00:18:57.730 out, but I do support the broad parameters that she 00:18:57.730 --> 00:19:02.599 articulated in the memo and with that I'll yield the 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:06.599 floor. All right, thank you. Commissioner Mcadams. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.960 My memo was intended to memorialize my thoughts from 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.910 the last open meeting and to provide recommendations 00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:15.240 on additional direction that we can provide ERCOT at 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.450 this time to help ensure that the firm fueled product 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:21.269 is in the ERCOT by next winter. Um So I've stated that 00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:23.339 is very important, I think that's the expectation of 00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:27.660 the leadership and so my goal here, um this is to, 00:19:27.670 --> 00:19:30.329 you know, have a starting point, it's not the end point 00:19:30.339 --> 00:19:33.460 it's the starting point just to help launch the product 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:38.170 and get it, get it up and going. Um So from my 00:19:38.170 --> 00:19:40.809 perspective, I was just trying to come at it. How do 00:19:40.809 --> 00:19:43.670 we build this project in an efficient scalable phased 00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:48.759 in manner so that we can um Implement the directives 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.819 of sp three and get this product in the ERCOT by next 00:19:51.819 --> 00:19:56.240 winter and start, you know, getting this project providing 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.440 reliability and resiliency for future cold weather 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:06.289 events. Um so the parameters that I provided recommendations 00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:10.069 um for commission direction on, we're just um the parameters 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:13.490 that I thought could be right for direction at this 00:20:13.490 --> 00:20:16.349 time because from my perspective I think the more we 00:20:16.349 --> 00:20:18.990 can give ERCOT at the beginning, the better recognizing 00:20:18.990 --> 00:20:23.539 that throughout this process, um ERCOT will have, We'll 00:20:23.539 --> 00:20:27.119 need to engage additional analysis by independent 3rd 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.769 Party independent consultant on issues such as how 00:20:29.769 --> 00:20:33.430 to price the the product and what I mean by that, is 00:20:33.430 --> 00:20:35.759 it, is it a budget limit is a cost per megawatt hour 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.470 and I think that's gonna be really important to have 00:20:37.470 --> 00:20:42.200 our own figure on that. Um with respect to the NPR 00:20:42.210 --> 00:20:47.119 are that I referenced in the memo, um ERCOT per our 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:49.420 direction at the last open meeting is drafting an NPR 00:20:49.430 --> 00:20:52.890 are that captures primarily the settlement aspects 00:20:52.900 --> 00:20:58.460 of creating the firm fuel product and based on my understanding 00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:03.579 from ERCOT, um that is where the most intensive tedious 00:21:03.579 --> 00:21:08.039 work is, is um working on the settlement systems to 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.920 accommodate the new product. So the earlier we can 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.869 tell we can give ERCOT direction for the NPR are on 00:21:13.869 --> 00:21:16.200 the settlement process for the new product the better 00:21:16.740 --> 00:21:21.269 And based on my discussions with ERCOT and the timeline 00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:25.589 it would be best to have that NPR are approved by the 00:21:25.589 --> 00:21:29.390 board in March, so that ERCOT has um a sort of a 00:21:29.390 --> 00:21:32.460 final framework to continue to zone in on building 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:37.069 the settlement process for the firm fuel product. And 00:21:37.069 --> 00:21:42.130 then um as commissioner Mcadams said um you know, from 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:47.980 my, I had recommended um payment on a quarterly basis 00:21:47.980 --> 00:21:50.400 or a block period basis and that was based on ERCOT 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:55.470 feedback um that was provided to me on how to pay out 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.539 money to those selected resources um in an efficient 00:21:59.539 --> 00:22:02.710 manner that wouldn't require, you know, tedious settlement 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:07.680 process changes and uh that, so, but based on recent 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.039 feedback, I believe that ERCOT has at least identified 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:13.480 one more option that could be considered um, to make 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:16.059 the settlement process efficient from a payout standpoint 00:22:16.539 --> 00:22:18.890 So I sort of see it in two ways, I see it 00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:22.269 as you know, giving ERCOT direction for the NPR are 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.829 so they can get that approved by the board in March 00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:26.940 and get to working on the settlement process and then 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:30.210 giving them giving ERCOT direction on sort of the overall 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:35.039 RFP process so they can continue to work towards that 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:40.509 goal, which I believe would be in august RFP issuance 00:22:40.509 --> 00:22:41.670 at least for the first one? 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.309 Yes, you want to come up here? I'm willing to come 00:22:48.309 --> 00:22:49.509 on up, come on up. 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:51.559 Yeah, 00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:00.650 and I think, but both of y'all, some memos are consistent 00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:03.859 in the direction we want to go. I think the settlement 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.990 element is the most critical part. Soonest agree with 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.220 the phased approach, let's get the first iteration 00:23:11.220 --> 00:23:15.039 out and we can fine tune the next next winter. But 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:18.000 let's, let's get it out there. I think the, the questions 00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:20.829 that, that we can move forward without having all of 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:25.849 the questions answered today. Cannon, can you, you 00:23:25.849 --> 00:23:29.940 have, what are the specific questions for Canon or 00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:36.230 is it just straightforward? What do you need to proceed 00:23:36.390 --> 00:23:42.059 with the settlement piece and what do you need answered 00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:45.460 that can be provided at a later date, 00:23:47.430 --> 00:23:51.579 Kennedy gelman with ERCOT Good morning Chairman Commissioners 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.390 I guess the first thing I would like to say is thank 00:23:54.390 --> 00:24:00.839 you very much for both the memos and I would probably 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:04.650 need to make a confession as well that I think in my 00:24:04.650 --> 00:24:10.230 letter, both kind of items in question, we're in there 00:24:10.230 --> 00:24:14.940 as an ask um two things uh, you know, as we try 00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:18.460 and develop this, one thing we found is that when a 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:24.279 unit tries to switch from burning gas to oil it, actually 00:24:24.289 --> 00:24:28.950 some of them have to shut down and start back up um 00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:32.720 upon discovery of that they must offer and the day 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:39.549 ahead, it seems unfavorable requirement um, on the 00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:44.190 issue of uh, kind of a more quarterly payout to the 00:24:44.190 --> 00:24:47.880 generators that was originally our most expeditious 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.640 way to proceed with this, but as the team worked through 00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:55.869 it, we actually found a quicker way that involved daily 00:24:55.869 --> 00:25:00.650 payments. Um, so I feel responsible for both of those 00:25:00.650 --> 00:25:07.039 elements in, in the memos. Um, but uh, I think we have 00:25:07.049 --> 00:25:11.089 what we need to get the settlement items in in in place 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:15.539 and move forward. Uh, I can confirm that our target 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:22.920 is an august RFP, um, for that august RFP, um, the 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:26.210 outstanding items that I think would be helpful for 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:30.930 us as kind of quantity, um, and uh, in discussion with 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:34.150 staff, they would like to get a better understanding 00:25:34.150 --> 00:25:38.130 of some of the drivers for that. So, um, uh, we're 00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:41.640 we're happy to follow up on that front and then uh 00:25:41.650 --> 00:25:45.450 if the commission wants to impose any cost controls 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:52.910 on, on the procurement via RFP, I think that is a future 00:25:52.910 --> 00:25:57.440 item that we would be looking for input on. So Canon 00:25:57.450 --> 00:26:01.730 um at the last open meeting, um we asked that are cut 00:26:01.730 --> 00:26:05.009 issue out a survey to the generators to get more information 00:26:05.009 --> 00:26:10.769 on um what existing existing dual fuel capability with 00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:13.910 on site fuel storage was out there right now with tank 00:26:13.910 --> 00:26:17.779 school and what existing infrastructure is out there 00:26:17.779 --> 00:26:21.569 right now fulfill capability with on sites fuel storage 00:26:21.569 --> 00:26:25.039 that doesn't have to take school and so that that those 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:29.059 responses will be back february 4th, is that correct 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.890 That's that's my recollection. Okay, so I think that 00:26:33.890 --> 00:26:37.240 information because we we at least know that based 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:42.569 on prior feedback, that there's 4440.5 megawatts of 00:26:42.579 --> 00:26:45.140 dual fuel capability and on site field storage in the 00:26:45.140 --> 00:26:49.950 ERCOT today with tanks full for primarily two days 00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:53.759 but some three days, is that correct? So the way the 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.549 question was asked was at least 48 hours. Um so some 00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:03.109 could have more than 48 hours but they have at a minimum 00:27:03.109 --> 00:27:09.430 48 hours of ability to operate um that maybe at a slight 00:27:09.450 --> 00:27:13.910 Dear eight or a modified output level but Their answers 00:27:13.910 --> 00:27:17.890 were based on at least 48 hours. Okay, great. And so 00:27:17.890 --> 00:27:20.509 then the second question on what, what infrastructure 00:27:20.509 --> 00:27:23.900 is out there with tanks that are unfilled. Um I know 00:27:23.900 --> 00:27:26.039 there's some preliminary data that, but we're still 00:27:26.039 --> 00:27:28.480 waiting for the final data to come in and that preliminary 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:31.210 data shows there could be somewhere around 1000 megawatts 00:27:31.210 --> 00:27:33.759 But again, we want to see the final data around february 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.279 4th. So que, natively speaking, We could have as much 00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:43.619 as 5000 ish megawatts out there with that infrastructure 00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:46.359 But again, I think it's very important for us to wait 00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:49.059 til february 4th two to really kind of get that final 00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:52.650 information to help us size the megawatt hour or the 00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:55.529 megawatt amount. From my perspective, the other thing 00:27:55.529 --> 00:27:57.519 that I think is important as we sort of go through 00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:01.920 this analysis of phasing in this product is um, to 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.549 look beyond our ERCOT borders and see what other markets 00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:09.390 how much firm fuel, what number one, what other markets 00:28:09.390 --> 00:28:12.230 have from, have a firm fuel product or firm fuel like 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:18.880 service and how many, how much megawatts are are in 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.599 the ERCOT just to sort of comparatively um, look at 00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:26.380 ERCOT versus, you know, the Northeastern markets, especially 00:28:26.380 --> 00:28:29.529 like P J. M. I saw New England even probably maybe 00:28:29.529 --> 00:28:32.220 my, so there's some pretty cold states in the midwest 00:28:32.230 --> 00:28:36.369 as you know, and um, so I think that would be a 00:28:36.369 --> 00:28:39.940 very important exercise and that you would be very 00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:44.210 helpful for us to kind of get a big picture perspective 00:28:44.210 --> 00:28:46.640 as to where we may be sitting and where we want to 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:50.589 build up to in the future. I think we can follow up 00:28:50.589 --> 00:28:53.990 on that. Okay and and when you do that. Query, it's 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.789 it's gonna be interesting. Uh you're gonna have to 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.130 drill down a little bit further cannon because um and 00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:06.430 all those other uh S. O. S. Where they have an elk 00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:10.029 certification accreditation, expected load carrying 00:29:10.029 --> 00:29:13.299 capacity. Um It's my understanding at least through 00:29:13.299 --> 00:29:16.400 my interaction with the Southwest power pool. Uh that 00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.059 is a part of their E. L. C. C. Accreditation and they 00:29:20.059 --> 00:29:22.690 haven't exactly checked to that standard for a long 00:29:22.690 --> 00:29:25.970 time. So when texas cut their gas, it was a big deal 00:29:25.970 --> 00:29:29.299 to them because they didn't have those tanks filled 00:29:29.309 --> 00:29:31.500 which was a part of the accreditation which their capacity 00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:34.849 payment was based on. So if if you can try to get 00:29:34.849 --> 00:29:38.049 what they actually know is on site because a lot of 00:29:38.049 --> 00:29:42.160 those guys have let those tanks go to go to pasture 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:46.319 I mean they're they're not there anymore. So um that 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:49.119 may require some one on one phone calls with those 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:53.309 I. S. O. Counterparts. Absolutely, I would agree with 00:29:53.309 --> 00:29:57.000 you and and we're prepared to do that. That's an important 00:29:57.000 --> 00:29:59.589 distinction. We need the help of, part is knowing the 00:29:59.589 --> 00:30:02.569 requirements, what they put in their books. The fact 00:30:02.569 --> 00:30:05.539 that they didn't follow up is an important lesson for 00:30:05.539 --> 00:30:07.910 us to take heed of as we go throughout all of this 00:30:07.910 --> 00:30:10.819 that no matter what we put in the rules for this product 00:30:10.819 --> 00:30:14.119 or anything else, it's only as good as our enforcement 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:18.490 of it. Very, very important point and a very good idea 00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:22.519 I think those, those would both be very, very helpful 00:30:22.529 --> 00:30:26.839 commission that filthy. My only thought is, uh, it's 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.670 really a question and that is, um, as we move through 00:30:30.670 --> 00:30:33.809 this commissioner Cobos, are you, um, I don't know 00:30:33.809 --> 00:30:37.880 where like coal plants um, fall in this discussion 00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:41.299 um, cole is an easy pile to sit there, that's on site 00:30:41.299 --> 00:30:44.339 storage. Um, if you can get the railroads to get it 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:48.809 to you, but that's another story. Um, but uh, in your 00:30:48.809 --> 00:30:51.730 plan, are you saying that we, they are not eligible 00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:53.670 in the first chance, but they may be eligible in a 00:30:53.670 --> 00:30:58.150 second tranche or, and, and it may be, I think further 00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:02.799 I admit my um lack of understanding about gas storage 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:06.430 and whether it be in salt domes are in line pack in 00:31:06.430 --> 00:31:10.220 the pipeline. Um, but I think there are others out 00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:12.509 there that we might, that might provide a valuable 00:31:12.509 --> 00:31:14.799 service and we don't want to, just, my view is, I don't 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.150 want, we don't want to cut them off, but we want to 00:31:17.150 --> 00:31:20.099 give them a path to be a part of our solution. And 00:31:20.099 --> 00:31:21.849 then the question would be, when would that happen 00:31:21.849 --> 00:31:24.230 when was, when would phase to happen or when would 00:31:24.230 --> 00:31:27.549 we, how do you see us going down that road? All very 00:31:27.549 --> 00:31:30.819 good questions. I, I believe that we should focus on 00:31:30.819 --> 00:31:34.259 gas generation for the firm fuel product. Um, those 00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:37.869 are the issues that are tremendously the gas supply 00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:41.210 system of our reliability and resiliency in the winter 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:45.019 is critically important. And I think that is the bullseye 00:31:45.019 --> 00:31:47.390 of the target for this firm fuel product, recognizing 00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.109 as you said that, you know, I understand your perspective 00:31:50.109 --> 00:31:52.480 on the coal and I know utilities that have coal plants 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:57.019 planned for x amount of days of stacked cole. Um, I 00:31:57.029 --> 00:32:01.230 think as we develop this product, um, we have to be 00:32:01.230 --> 00:32:05.329 also mindful, uh, the cost impacts and, and broadening 00:32:05.329 --> 00:32:09.289 it out too much may result in, in, um, even even more 00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:13.259 cost. But I think the bull's eye right now, given our 00:32:13.259 --> 00:32:16.299 experiences in the winter storm yuri and, and you know 00:32:16.349 --> 00:32:20.539 just evaluating where we're at today. I think focusing 00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:25.269 on the gas generation, um, area for the firm fuel product 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:29.339 is critically important. Um, to get for this product 00:32:29.349 --> 00:32:32.390 Um, your other question in terms of, when would the 00:32:32.390 --> 00:32:35.990 second RFP go out? I believe the second RFP should 00:32:35.990 --> 00:32:42.650 go out, um, fairly soon after the august RFP And why 00:32:42.650 --> 00:32:44.799 I believe that is because we can start sending the 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:49.460 ERCOT a signal well in advance for winter 2024, that 00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:53.019 uh, these companies, the generation companies can start 00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:57.160 you know, talking to vendors and contractors and, and 00:32:57.740 --> 00:33:00.920 Coming up with, with potential plans for submission 00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:02.990 in the bid process that they can build out throughout 00:33:02.990 --> 00:33:07.390 the year of 2020 for uh, 2023 for winter 2024. So I 00:33:07.390 --> 00:33:10.480 think the sooner the better. And I believe we, you 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:13.640 know, I didn't put a date in here. Um, but I think 00:33:13.650 --> 00:33:17.259 you know, no later than January 2023 would be ideal 00:33:17.740 --> 00:33:20.079 so that we could start sending that signal for the 00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:23.460 year ahead. Um, You had a really good question in between 00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:26.289 there, um, that I wanted to address and it skipped 00:33:26.289 --> 00:33:33.339 my mind. But what was that? Another really good question 00:33:33.349 --> 00:33:37.170 Another really good question. So, um, 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.039 when you think of it, asked me again, because I was 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:46.670 I had a good answer for it. I'd like to jump in 00:33:46.670 --> 00:33:50.410 on that. I think it's important to consider uh, on 00:33:50.410 --> 00:33:52.970 on a resource basis, what is already baked into the 00:33:52.970 --> 00:33:57.690 price of power that you're selling? Uh, coal stacks 00:33:57.700 --> 00:34:01.759 are endemic of the resource. You have to have them 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:06.319 Nuclear rods are endemic of a nuclear opera. I mean 00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:10.789 they have on site to, um, but, but use long duration 00:34:10.789 --> 00:34:14.150 I mean, it's a great revenue stream for them. But, 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.329 but I think natural gas by virtue of the resource, 00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.730 it doesn't have to have it. I mean, they can just be 00:34:19.730 --> 00:34:22.690 off takers right there at the line. So, uh, in the 00:34:22.690 --> 00:34:26.989 interest of addressing the jury scenario, it is the 00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:32.159 on site tanks, the fuel, oil, the reserve tanks, the 00:34:32.539 --> 00:34:35.500 the dual fuel capability. Again, that those coal generators 00:34:35.500 --> 00:34:40.170 don't necessarily, they don't have that. So, to stay 00:34:40.179 --> 00:34:45.360 with the statute, uh, and to get it done now, um, that's 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:50.639 why I advocate phase One gas only and phase two consideration 00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:55.039 we still stay in alignment with the spirit of the statute 00:34:55.050 --> 00:34:57.650 and that, and that's gas centric. And I just thought 00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:01.349 of your second question. It was a very important question 00:35:01.349 --> 00:35:04.800 that I think, um, folks out there may want feedback 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:08.039 on. And the third question I had asked ERCOT to survey 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.650 the generators on was the, um, whether or not there 00:35:10.650 --> 00:35:14.739 was power plants that owned pipeline to offsite natural 00:35:14.739 --> 00:35:17.949 gas facilities. I would want to venture to say we're 00:35:17.949 --> 00:35:20.000 probably not gonna get any megawatts on that, but we'll 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:23.179 wait till you see what we get on February four. But 00:35:23.179 --> 00:35:27.989 the other aspect that I think, you know, it is important 00:35:27.989 --> 00:35:30.599 to, to sort of think about um, going forward again 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:33.480 this is the starting point for this product as we look 00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:39.409 to scale up in the future, is the other aspect of power 00:35:39.409 --> 00:35:43.650 plants that have firm transportation contracts, um 00:35:43.659 --> 00:35:47.039 verifiable contracts, the offsite natural gas facilities 00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:49.679 Um, I think it's important to start with the dual fuel 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:54.389 capability um, that has on site fuel storage, I think 00:35:54.389 --> 00:35:56.329 there's still some more information and things we need 00:35:56.329 --> 00:36:00.460 to work out on that end, before we um add that to 00:36:00.469 --> 00:36:04.650 our, our initial phase of phasing in that product, 00:36:05.230 --> 00:36:07.519 but that, that's kind of where I'm at right now, um 00:36:07.530 --> 00:36:08.960 I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, Commissioner 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:12.969 Mcadams well, and I know the chairman does as well 00:36:12.980 --> 00:36:16.309 I, I think what we're seeing in the ERCOT right now 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:19.480 that this winter is incredibly important as a test 00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:23.860 case to see how ERCOT participants up and down the 00:36:23.860 --> 00:36:29.030 supply chain behave, to give us uh, certainty that 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:32.210 and again, the beauty of this program is, it's an incentive 00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:35.889 based program. It pays you more for a megawatt based 00:36:35.889 --> 00:36:38.659 on the redundant supply chain security that you have 00:36:39.230 --> 00:36:41.460 Um, that's why we're starting it on site, because we 00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:46.889 know you can control that as you spread out through 00:36:46.889 --> 00:36:52.250 the supply chain. Ah, it's going to take generators 00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:56.500 and gas producers to prove to us that they can actually 00:36:56.510 --> 00:37:00.469 uh, get these molecules to ERCOT. And, and we've got 00:37:00.469 --> 00:37:03.880 to have certainty there, um, that's a broad term, just 00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:09.210 like wazoo and public interest. Um, so, uh, the devil 00:37:09.210 --> 00:37:12.039 is going to be in the details on that. And, uh, the 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:16.070 more uncertainty that we have in firm contracts, the 00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:19.750 further it degrades our ability to put faith in, uh 00:37:20.190 --> 00:37:22.699 and this incentive, the expansion of this incentive 00:37:22.699 --> 00:37:24.449 program that Mr chairman, I know you have thought, 00:37:24.869 --> 00:37:27.840 well, there's always reliability is paramount, yep 00:37:28.429 --> 00:37:30.050 and we worked, we worked from there, 00:37:32.130 --> 00:37:35.949 gasses, the gas generation element of our fleet is 00:37:35.949 --> 00:37:39.909 the first crack at it. I do want to keep consideration 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.500 of coal on the table. Um, and that's why it's important 00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:46.670 to see what other I. S. O. S do especially cost consumer 00:37:46.670 --> 00:37:50.059 costs are important. But if we can and I don't know 00:37:50.059 --> 00:37:53.170 the answer yet, but I want to make sure we examine 00:37:54.030 --> 00:37:59.559 the dynamic of coal and if we can move it from currently 00:37:59.570 --> 00:38:02.969 uh, cole is probably a combination of working capital 00:38:02.969 --> 00:38:05.389 and supply chain. The amount of columns where they 00:38:05.389 --> 00:38:09.940 keep in stock, if we can switch that from working capital 00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:13.679 issue to a reliability issue, whether they keep, you 00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:15.210 know, they keep the amount of coal they keep in the 00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:18.829 back is based on the train schedule, not reliability 00:38:18.969 --> 00:38:23.210 And if we're, you know, if it's for a very few marginal 00:38:23.210 --> 00:38:26.460 dollars we can expand, expand that from two days because 00:38:26.460 --> 00:38:29.469 that's what the trains run to a four days and all it 00:38:29.469 --> 00:38:32.670 takes is a few dollars to move a little further out 00:38:32.670 --> 00:38:36.019 in the yard. I certainly would love to have those megawatts 00:38:36.019 --> 00:38:37.940 redundant. I don't know the answer. I just want to 00:38:37.940 --> 00:38:41.989 make sure we keep it on the table. Um, and, and also 00:38:41.989 --> 00:38:47.840 want to make sure that we keep firm gas from storage 00:38:48.730 --> 00:38:51.900 and firm transport on the table. There are a lot of 00:38:51.900 --> 00:38:55.519 contracting issues to address their, as you correctly 00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:59.360 point out, But I also don't want to thumb my nose at 00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:04.949 500 BCF of storage we have in Texas and, and we've 00:39:04.949 --> 00:39:09.579 got these resources and it's incumbent on the relevant 00:39:09.579 --> 00:39:15.659 industries to prove to us that they can deliver what 00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:20.079 their contracts oblige them to deliver. But it's also 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.869 incumbent on us to be smart about integrating all of 00:39:23.869 --> 00:39:26.179 the resources we have in place to deliver, the most 00:39:26.179 --> 00:39:29.030 cost effective reliability. Uh, so I don't want to 00:39:29.030 --> 00:39:31.920 ignore these resources may not be in phase one, but 00:39:31.929 --> 00:39:33.980 I certainly want to make sure we take a hard look at 00:39:33.980 --> 00:39:35.639 it into 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.340 Your point about timing. I don't know, I don't think 00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:43.369 today we're going to know exactly what the timing is 00:39:43.369 --> 00:39:49.429 for winter 24 We're aiming for August 1-23 but the 00:39:49.429 --> 00:39:52.929 more advanced notice we can give the better both road 00:39:52.929 --> 00:39:55.670 generators so they can put in the infrastructure. Procure 00:39:55.670 --> 00:39:57.739 the fuel supplies they need, but also better for our 00:39:57.739 --> 00:40:00.329 retail providers because that gives them more visibility 00:40:00.710 --> 00:40:04.059 on the cost. There will be assigned as part of this 00:40:04.059 --> 00:40:07.139 reliability program. So the more the more 00:40:08.710 --> 00:40:11.860 visibility and more advanced we can procure these, 00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:15.139 the better it is for both our generators, retailer 00:40:15.139 --> 00:40:17.750 providers and then at the end of the day the customers 00:40:17.750 --> 00:40:20.519 they serve. So another thing to keep in mind, I think 00:40:20.530 --> 00:40:22.820 for today, the primary, 00:40:24.909 --> 00:40:27.030 the thing we need to focus on is using these memos 00:40:27.030 --> 00:40:29.710 as a foundation to move forward and one wait for this 00:40:29.710 --> 00:40:33.170 to get the survey results from ERCOT next week, I think 00:40:33.170 --> 00:40:38.199 they'll be there in the next week and then to get the 00:40:38.210 --> 00:40:42.409 results from ERCOT on comparable firm fuel products 00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:44.570 and or the, 00:40:47.750 --> 00:40:50.050 the standards they put in either their capacity or 00:40:50.050 --> 00:40:52.730 E L. C C. Whatever requirements they put in wherever 00:40:52.730 --> 00:40:55.530 that exists in their ecosystem. What are those standards 00:40:57.090 --> 00:40:59.599 and whether or not the unfortunate a different question 00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:02.409 But let's start with the, let's start with what they 00:41:02.409 --> 00:41:07.280 are. And it would be most helpful for me if you could 00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.369 almost do a matrix of the questions you need us to 00:41:10.369 --> 00:41:14.719 answer on the y axis and then other I S. O S 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.329 on the X axis so we can see it was a procurement 00:41:18.809 --> 00:41:22.550 Yeah dollars versus megawatts. Let's see what myself 00:41:22.550 --> 00:41:26.119 Spp. Okay, so see what they do. Um, that would be a 00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:28.429 helpful format so we can see the exact questions you 00:41:28.469 --> 00:41:32.800 need answered. Um, and how it's done on each issue 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:38.170 across across the other ISOS, I think we can get that 00:41:38.170 --> 00:41:41.250 prepared for you. Okay. Hopefully that's not a hopefully 00:41:41.250 --> 00:41:44.599 it's a quick turnaround. I believe. Research product 00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:48.199 project, we want to, I think to Commissioner Mcadams 00:41:48.199 --> 00:41:51.429 point there may need to be a little bit of digging 00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:59.159 beyond just the reported ah performance or quantity 00:41:59.170 --> 00:42:04.500 within each isso. Fair enough. Well, get back to us 00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:05.650 on that. Yes sir, 00:42:07.300 --> 00:42:10.320 timing as soon as you can and we'll work from there 00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:13.619 Does that make sense? Because because I have one question 00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:16.309 for commissioner Cobos about, about the penalty provisions 00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:22.469 Obviously the goal is to have deliver ability. We want 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.630 entities that are in this program, who are going to 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.500 be there when we need them. Um this is the, we have 00:42:29.500 --> 00:42:32.969 electromechanical systems. We have challenges that 00:42:32.980 --> 00:42:37.949 happen either at plants. What happened? We may not 00:42:37.949 --> 00:42:40.219 know the answer, but I throw this out for for a thought 00:42:40.230 --> 00:42:46.210 What happens if if we have a a gas generator that has 00:42:46.219 --> 00:42:50.769 been paid for this and a transmission element fails 00:42:50.780 --> 00:42:55.940 and they cannot deliver? Um, we have a issue, where 00:42:55.949 --> 00:42:59.079 are they going to be penalized as a result or is that 00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:03.690 gonna is the ERCOT going to re adjust to that? Um, 00:43:03.699 --> 00:43:07.530 just thoughts that we that need to be taken into consideration 00:43:07.530 --> 00:43:11.260 because not all of these plants fail because of poor 00:43:11.260 --> 00:43:13.849 maintenance or I mean they're they're maintained. We 00:43:13.849 --> 00:43:16.869 know that they are, they are well maintained but they're 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:20.030 they're mechanical systems and sometimes other things 00:43:20.030 --> 00:43:23.190 happen to our, this network that we call an electric 00:43:23.190 --> 00:43:26.269 system that cause outages on other other assets assets 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:31.239 That's a great question. But one thing, how does our 00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.230 s how does regular Greg down work if you're on tap 00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:38.730 for an existing ancillary service and there is a transmission 00:43:38.730 --> 00:43:41.639 constraint and you cannot comply with the contractual 00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:46.170 obligations of the ancillary service. So currently 00:43:46.250 --> 00:43:52.449 if we issue a spasm and only in that instance because 00:43:52.449 --> 00:43:57.730 of this un deliver ability. The resource in question 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.960 would have to pay for the replacement ancillary service 00:44:04.289 --> 00:44:08.300 our proposal and this is a little bit more dynamic 00:44:08.309 --> 00:44:11.650 where we would focus on an availability factor for 00:44:11.650 --> 00:44:15.260 the resource. I need to go back and check and see if 00:44:15.269 --> 00:44:18.809 transmission outages impact the availability factor 00:44:19.289 --> 00:44:25.280 But my initial thought is that it does not in that 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:31.170 instance and the availability factor that that we have 00:44:31.179 --> 00:44:38.639 has kind of 36 hours of una unavailability in the procurement 00:44:38.650 --> 00:44:43.880 period. That's allowed if you if that if you fall below 00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:47.289 that we don't claw back all the money. It is aligned 00:44:47.289 --> 00:44:51.110 with your availability factor again, because that's 00:44:51.110 --> 00:44:54.829 the proposal. Sorry. And great question Commissioner 00:44:54.829 --> 00:44:56.619 got penalty. I think there's there's things we need 00:44:56.619 --> 00:45:00.860 to think about it from a penalty rock, uh, not rough 00:45:00.869 --> 00:45:04.230 but payment clawback perspective. And I think there's 00:45:04.230 --> 00:45:07.730 you know, um as you look at those facts, when you know 00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:11.239 should those circumstances, you know, arise in the 00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:13.329 future as we get this product out there. You know, 00:45:13.329 --> 00:45:15.460 there's obviously ways of looking at that through the 00:45:15.460 --> 00:45:18.010 ERCOT process and also through our enforcement process 00:45:18.010 --> 00:45:21.230 here at the puc to to make a determination on a factual 00:45:21.230 --> 00:45:22.010 legal basis. 00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:25.929 I don't think it's it's a big part of why it would 00:45:25.929 --> 00:45:29.500 be helpful to see what other ideas do. Like other folks 00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:32.219 have thought about this before. Let's borrow some of 00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:34.000 the good ideas and discard the bad ones. 00:45:35.989 --> 00:45:38.380 Right? Thank you appreciate the work on this. 00:45:42.289 --> 00:45:45.159 I don't have anything on mr before we leave it. Um 00:45:45.170 --> 00:45:47.739 so I wonder if this is the appropriate time to talk 00:45:47.739 --> 00:45:51.550 about um forecasting and Cdr and Sarah's and stuff 00:45:51.550 --> 00:45:54.920 like that. I have some thoughts that I'd like to gather 00:45:54.929 --> 00:45:58.000 from from you all if I may. Where do you think that's 00:45:58.000 --> 00:45:59.000 appropriate for later 00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:03.769 discussion? I did not file a memo on this topic. This 00:46:03.769 --> 00:46:07.349 is purely discussion. I'm happy to hear it if it's 00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:14.800 we've considered Germaine to 373. Sure. So we have 00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:18.909 discussed at length as a part of our review on ERCOT 00:46:18.909 --> 00:46:24.090 design how woefully inadequate the current Cdr and 00:46:24.090 --> 00:46:27.650 Sarah are in the face of anticipated load growth and 00:46:27.650 --> 00:46:30.800 dramatically changing resource mix in the ERCOT system 00:46:31.250 --> 00:46:33.599 The reason I say woefully inadequate is because we're 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.440 missing key components as the resource makes changes 00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:40.860 on a seasonally adjusted basis what what we're gonna 00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:45.449 have available. Um both the commission and ERCOT over 00:46:45.449 --> 00:46:49.860 the last years have identified flaws and shortcomings 00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:53.340 in both documents in both documents that at a high 00:46:53.340 --> 00:46:57.320 level formed the basis for expectations that the ERCOT 00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.900 and the public used to determine the health of the 00:46:59.900 --> 00:47:02.780 ERCOT and the reliability of our grid. I mean this 00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:05.829 is what we're carrying over to the legislature to demonstrate 00:47:05.900 --> 00:47:10.309 or to explain that we know we have on system and that's 00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:14.869 how we're going to address this moving forward as as 00:47:14.869 --> 00:47:18.679 things change within a reasonable range the blueprint 00:47:18.730 --> 00:47:22.139 that we adopted in january is predicated on both. ERCOT 00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:24.969 and the commission having a firm grasp on how much 00:47:24.969 --> 00:47:28.570 power we believe our system needs in order to satisfy 00:47:28.570 --> 00:47:31.780 demand, the performance capabilities of the generating 00:47:31.780 --> 00:47:35.110 resources that make up our installed supplies and a 00:47:35.110 --> 00:47:38.150 reasonable forecast of weather conditions that may 00:47:38.150 --> 00:47:42.380 influence both. Each of us has identified that we are 00:47:42.380 --> 00:47:44.719 interested in a more detailed approach on a seasonal 00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:47.889 basis as a result of ERCOT peaks that are shifting 00:47:47.889 --> 00:47:51.360 away from the twice a year paradigm in a renewable 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:52.289 heavy environment. 00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:57.469 So, and and each of us has argued, argued over accreditation 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:01.659 and the question of our reserve margins as as healthy 00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:04.769 as they appear on paper Because obviously right now 00:48:04.769 --> 00:48:07.900 under the forecast, we're looking at 20% and more reserved 00:48:07.909 --> 00:48:10.590 growing but it's all how you count the intermittent 00:48:10.590 --> 00:48:14.760 sea and frankly are base load generation, how they 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.179 perform and we all know that load is not monolithic 00:48:19.369 --> 00:48:23.250 The economy of texas is forcing load into many disparate 00:48:23.250 --> 00:48:26.289 profiles, not just industrial and residential anymore 00:48:26.670 --> 00:48:30.889 Those subsets are breaking apart and their performance 00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:34.119 and their responsiveness to price prices are becoming 00:48:34.309 --> 00:48:38.139 more variable and just case in point, we don't know 00:48:38.139 --> 00:48:41.889 how crypto mining is going to play as bulk load comes 00:48:41.889 --> 00:48:45.320 into the system. The answer to all these questions 00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:48.289 lie in the CDR in the serra and how it's computed. 00:48:48.769 --> 00:48:51.869 They will also help us determine the appropriateness 00:48:51.869 --> 00:48:54.679 and scale of our Phase one ancillary services, everything 00:48:54.679 --> 00:48:58.869 that we argued and adopted and uh in order to satisfy 00:48:58.869 --> 00:49:01.440 our near-term resource adequacy demands and reliability 00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:07.900 demands is baked into the CDR and and we certainly 00:49:07.900 --> 00:49:12.409 have big decisions coming up on scaling and expeditious 00:49:12.409 --> 00:49:17.150 implementation. So with all that said, I would propose 00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:21.179 that you consider that we instruct staff to open up 00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:25.949 a project to evaluate the reliability reports that 00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:29.929 ERCOT has, it's consistent with our substantive rules 00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:32.250 and there will be a rulemaking but that rulemaking 00:49:32.250 --> 00:49:35.670 proceeds over a two phased approach, splicing out the 00:49:35.670 --> 00:49:39.920 CDR and Sarah requirement from the uh scarcity pricing 00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:45.269 mechanism rule to have its own issue. Um but this project 00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:48.940 would serve as a informal repository so that we can 00:49:48.940 --> 00:49:52.079 start gathering feedback, consensus driven feedback 00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:55.440 from the stakeholders so that it could serve as the 00:49:55.449 --> 00:49:59.699 uh, the bones for a more substantive rulemaking later 00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:03.300 in the year to where we actually have, have something 00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:06.260 in place for next year that will guide our ancillary 00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:08.960 service procurement and are further resource. Adequacy 00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:13.889 conversations, what do you think? We'll we'll put uh 00:50:16.059 --> 00:50:20.639 I can agree with everything he said there's a lot of 00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:25.559 improvements we made. I am encouraged by ERCOT is proactive 00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:29.800 efforts to increase the probabilistic analysis that's 00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:35.119 going into the next version of Sarah and Cdr. That's 00:50:35.119 --> 00:50:38.039 a that's a work in progress going on behind the scenes 00:50:38.050 --> 00:50:40.989 that will be good to build on and I'm sure you will 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:45.760 I don't think it's a good idea to get get these efforts 00:50:45.769 --> 00:50:49.599 formalized and centralized in a in a project and will 00:50:49.610 --> 00:50:52.690 helpful that be helpful to staff and stakeholders. 00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:57.380 I think it's a good idea, comments. Thank you. Commissioner 00:50:57.380 --> 00:50:59.309 Mcadams on your for your leadership on this issue. 00:50:59.309 --> 00:51:02.369 I think it's just I mean a really important central 00:51:02.369 --> 00:51:06.760 issue to all of our evaluation um and blueprint um 00:51:06.769 --> 00:51:09.940 just understanding where we're headed in the future 00:51:09.940 --> 00:51:12.599 because the CDR, even though, you know, the companies 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.150 use other models and other reports to make decisions 00:51:15.150 --> 00:51:19.440 the CDR is often looked at and um by, you know, a 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.719 lot of the stakeholder community and as you noted, 00:51:21.730 --> 00:51:25.449 you know, our reserve margins are showing um that they're 00:51:25.460 --> 00:51:27.780 they're thick into the future and there's a lot that 00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:30.190 goes in there and I think that needs to be reevaluated 00:51:30.659 --> 00:51:33.179 um so that we have a much clearer picture on what, 00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:36.480 what dispatch Herbal Generation we have on our system 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.829 and how that fluctuates throughout the year, like as 00:51:38.829 --> 00:51:41.989 you mentioned, a peak net load. Um so all of that I 00:51:41.989 --> 00:51:44.179 agree with and um thank you so much. 00:51:47.260 --> 00:51:51.179 Uh I would say um if this effort by opening up a 00:51:51.179 --> 00:51:54.949 project helps move the Cdr and Sarah from an excel 00:51:54.949 --> 00:51:57.369 spreadsheet format to something that's more readable 00:51:57.369 --> 00:51:59.960 than I am all for than it will be a success. 00:52:02.550 --> 00:52:05.880 Um I think that's the changing nature of the audience 00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:09.030 where these reports are going. It was initially all 00:52:09.030 --> 00:52:11.780 to the ERCOT participants. They want to take that data 00:52:11.780 --> 00:52:14.980 which they still should have the ability to do um use 00:52:14.980 --> 00:52:17.699 their analytical capability to understand it a little 00:52:17.699 --> 00:52:21.280 bit more and make financial decisions as a result of 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:25.099 yuri we obviously have a populist that's interested 00:52:25.099 --> 00:52:27.070 in this, we have a legislature that's interested in 00:52:27.070 --> 00:52:30.619 this and executive branch agencies. So looking into 00:52:30.619 --> 00:52:34.750 this is clearly what we need to do. Um the other thing 00:52:34.750 --> 00:52:38.070 that I would just say is um as you talked about the 00:52:38.079 --> 00:52:41.719 changing nature of our generation, we have loads today 00:52:41.769 --> 00:52:44.590 that will be generators as well and we have to take 00:52:44.590 --> 00:52:48.590 those into consideration and I don't say this um trying 00:52:48.590 --> 00:52:51.780 to be negative, but sometimes our processes here at 00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:54.059 the commission and at ERCOT are hard for new entrants 00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:57.079 to get involved in. So if we have this process here 00:52:57.090 --> 00:52:59.389 we should be informed to let everybody, you know, have 00:52:59.389 --> 00:53:04.489 their views. Finally, I would just say that these reports 00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:08.059 have always frustrated me and not just these two reports 00:53:08.059 --> 00:53:11.579 but the seasonal assessments at Newark and every other 00:53:11.579 --> 00:53:17.059 RTO because they always say we're going to all be okay 00:53:17.650 --> 00:53:21.219 and less a transmission element breaks, generation 00:53:21.219 --> 00:53:24.760 element breaks or we have extreme weather. Those those 00:53:24.769 --> 00:53:28.260 seem to be the problems always so we have to figure 00:53:28.260 --> 00:53:32.780 out a way to to minimize those caveats to use things 00:53:32.780 --> 00:53:36.489 that are real rather than just big exceptions to um 00:53:36.500 --> 00:53:39.710 to get us out of Well we were okay except for the 00:53:39.710 --> 00:53:40.369 weather got cold. 00:53:41.949 --> 00:53:47.329 Just just get to okay without the qualifiers disclaimers 00:53:48.150 --> 00:53:51.880 Well put or cuts not just for engineers anymore, 00:53:54.650 --> 00:53:57.170 appreciate you watching this project. Does staff need 00:53:57.170 --> 00:54:01.639 any other direction? No, I believe that we can bring 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:08.000 you a proposed rule um your blueprint instruct staff 00:54:08.010 --> 00:54:11.849 to initiate a rulemaking to decouple the ball from 00:54:11.849 --> 00:54:14.860 the system wide offer cap and that's contained in the 00:54:14.860 --> 00:54:18.059 same rule as we're doing that. We'll bring you a draft 00:54:18.070 --> 00:54:21.880 that would as Commissioner Mcadams suggested, split 00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:27.280 out into topical areas, removing the reporting requirements 00:54:27.289 --> 00:54:30.179 and putting them in a separate rule from the scarcity 00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:31.059 pricing mechanism. 00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.849 Well put what I'd do. That 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:40.639 pile of many moving pieces and our rulemaking. Thank 00:54:40.639 --> 00:54:43.760 you. I think that Commissioner Mcadams, that's your 00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:50.559 best memo yet. See, didn't you fall for you last time 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:57.400 I'm sorry. Next item please. Mr generic. Just be careful 00:54:57.400 --> 00:54:58.360 about those mothers. 00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:04.849 Oh, you're up Adam. 12 Sir. As a memo that you have 00:55:06.139 --> 00:55:07.260 we need to automate. 00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:15.429 I'm sorry. I turned my page Yes sir, item eight, project 00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:19.360 52934. Its review rules adopted by the Independent 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.750 organization. Commission staff has filed a memorandum 00:55:22.750 --> 00:55:28.559 in a proposed order that would approve um another protocol 00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:32.769 revision. It's related to logistics for new address 00:55:33.329 --> 00:55:35.719 ERCOT pretty straightforward. Any questions, comments 00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:40.920 or a motion to approve the proposed order some of second 00:55:41.150 --> 00:55:45.780 all in favor say, aye, opposed the motion passes. I 00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:51.269 will now bring us to (item:11) item 11, Commissioner Mcadams 00:55:51.389 --> 00:55:55.920 has an update on sdP. Yes, sir, thank you. Mr Chairman 00:55:56.510 --> 00:56:00.119 commissioners this past monday I attended virtually 00:56:00.130 --> 00:56:02.690 a quarterly regional state committee meeting of the 00:56:02.690 --> 00:56:06.840 Southwest power pool. It was a truly an excellent opportunity 00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:09.309 to hear from fellow commissioners from the other states 00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:13.150 as well as to here that what the other I. S. O 00:56:13.150 --> 00:56:15.739 S are facing and that they are facing many of the same 00:56:15.739 --> 00:56:19.869 challenges that we are here in our ERCOT from that 00:56:19.869 --> 00:56:23.570 meeting. I wanted to bring one topic of concern to 00:56:23.570 --> 00:56:26.610 this commission's attention at monday's meeting and 00:56:26.750 --> 00:56:29.519 subsequently at the board of directors meeting for 00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:34.690 SBP, they passed a proposal granting a waiver process 00:56:34.690 --> 00:56:37.840 to certain transmission projects for cost allocation 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:43.639 purposes. Um, myself representing texas voted against 00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:46.349 the proposal on behalf of the affected ratepayers and 00:56:46.349 --> 00:56:50.860 utilities here in texas ultimately, um, it was my belief 00:56:50.860 --> 00:56:54.210 that the proposed waiver process created an unnecessary 00:56:54.219 --> 00:56:57.659 uh, second bite at the apple on cost allocation for 00:56:57.659 --> 00:57:02.260 these projects and asked Texans and Spp to pay the 00:57:02.260 --> 00:57:05.010 bill for projects and other states that are ratepayers 00:57:05.010 --> 00:57:08.340 will never see the benefits from and to put it in layman's 00:57:08.340 --> 00:57:11.989 terms. What happens in S. P. P as in the rest of 00:57:11.989 --> 00:57:14.730 the country is we have a highway and byways cost allocation 00:57:14.730 --> 00:57:17.539 process. Commissioner Blofeld is certainly familiar 00:57:17.539 --> 00:57:23.489 with this and that mirrors sort of transportation funding 00:57:23.489 --> 00:57:28.349 processes where the home region of a generation um 00:57:28.730 --> 00:57:32.670 uh, facility that has transmission interconnecting 00:57:32.670 --> 00:57:36.559 it pays a portion of that and then uh the rest of 00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:38.909 the system pays a greater portion just like you would 00:57:38.909 --> 00:57:42.650 fund a interstate off ramp or something like that. 00:57:43.429 --> 00:57:50.619 Well, the the allowance passed by sbp bypassed the 00:57:50.630 --> 00:57:54.809 highway by way, cost allocation process, um, and in 00:57:54.809 --> 00:58:00.769 effect socialized cost for a certain um generation 00:58:00.769 --> 00:58:04.480 facilities in their home regions. The interconnection 00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:06.940 of those facilities that socialized those costs to 00:58:06.940 --> 00:58:10.219 the rest of the SPP. And I want, I want to note 00:58:10.230 --> 00:58:14.500 that Texas represents over 30% of the load in the southwest 00:58:14.500 --> 00:58:19.119 power pool. So, um, if this is reflective of future 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.300 policy adjustments at SbP, it bears watching on the 00:58:22.300 --> 00:58:26.460 part of texas and, and I wanted to highlight it for 00:58:26.460 --> 00:58:28.809 you here. This kind of cost shifting to texas ratepayers 00:58:28.809 --> 00:58:31.409 is something that continues to concern me and I will 00:58:31.409 --> 00:58:33.920 be working with our utilities and other state commissioners 00:58:33.920 --> 00:58:37.849 to share our concerns. Um, so the texas, ratepayers 00:58:37.849 --> 00:58:42.130 and Spp are not unduly subsidizing un beneficial projects 00:58:42.190 --> 00:58:48.130 were we see no benefit, incredibly important point 00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:52.349 Thank you for staying on top of that and keeping more 00:58:52.349 --> 00:58:54.659 importantly, keeping an eye on and going forward at 00:58:54.659 --> 00:58:56.079 the end of the day. Everything we're doing here is 00:58:56.079 --> 00:58:59.179 for the customers of texas. We don't want them saddled 00:58:59.179 --> 00:59:02.820 with additional costs that you'll no benefit and reliability 00:59:02.820 --> 00:59:06.760 or even additional power. Well, I mean, just to put 00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:09.679 it in context, if if they're connecting transmission 00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:12.329 projects to facilities in the western end of the SPP 00:59:12.340 --> 00:59:15.550 to trail along and go into my, so that then go and 00:59:15.550 --> 00:59:19.179 connect into the eastern grids. Um, and we don't see 00:59:19.179 --> 00:59:22.969 the, the net benefit of of that transmission cost. 00:59:22.980 --> 00:59:26.699 Again, we're seeing lower wholesale power costs because 00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:30.539 of that, that wholesale power but are non by passable 00:59:30.539 --> 00:59:32.840 charges are going up because we're paying for the transmission 00:59:32.840 --> 00:59:35.820 that's going across us. So we don't see any benefit 00:59:35.949 --> 00:59:41.119 So I think we're going to have to be vigilant as you 00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:45.070 said, commissioner Cobos across the board. I would 00:59:45.070 --> 00:59:46.909 say, the only, the only thing that we got to keep an 00:59:46.909 --> 00:59:48.739 eye or one of the things we gotta keep an eye on 00:59:48.750 --> 00:59:51.739 is that's reverse. Also, if they build transmission 00:59:51.750 --> 00:59:54.250 in our part of the Southwest power pool and it gets 00:59:54.250 --> 00:59:58.429 allocated to others, there's a benefit that we get 00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:00.659 that they don't, but they're still paying for it as 01:00:00.659 --> 01:00:04.940 well. So it's just, it's each of these regions has 01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:07.420 a different way of doing cost allocation and it's very 01:00:07.420 --> 01:00:09.780 hard, but we have to be diligent about it. It does 01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:12.840 But, but again, remember what we've got in our Spp 01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.659 regions, we've got vertically integrated incumbent 01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:19.780 utilities that are LSC serving load serving entities 01:00:19.829 --> 01:00:22.849 And um, so they don't necessarily have the nimbleness 01:00:22.849 --> 01:00:25.530 or flexibility of just interconnecting all these merchants 01:00:26.010 --> 01:00:29.010 generators, it's a different animal there and were 01:00:29.010 --> 01:00:31.360 somewhat restricted on what we can approve in rape 01:00:31.369 --> 01:00:35.360 cases, they have their own statutory um, you know areas 01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:39.269 of law. So it's a, it's a tough nut to crack. We 01:00:39.269 --> 01:00:43.210 just need to watch it. I'm supportive of that, appreciate 01:00:43.210 --> 01:00:43.719 your vigilance 01:00:47.010 --> 01:00:52.550 brings us now to (item:12) item number 12 related to NPR are 01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:58.670 10 92. I filed a memo regarding adjustments to the 01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:03.929 offer floor four rock units and also the changing the 01:01:03.929 --> 01:01:06.579 existing opt out provision for units that have been 01:01:06.590 --> 01:01:07.139 rocked. 01:01:09.809 --> 01:01:12.809 I know the, this is something this is NPR sponsored 01:01:12.809 --> 01:01:14.730 by the I. M. M I believe she is here today 01:01:16.510 --> 01:01:22.519 and can oh there she is. Carrie, would you mind coming 01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:27.139 on up and laying out the logic behind your NPR and 01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:33.050 the impact oh for the commission and I will follow 01:01:33.050 --> 01:01:38.030 with some thoughts on top of what is your NPR? 01:01:39.710 --> 01:01:41.900 Good morning, good morning. 01:01:43.409 --> 01:01:46.590 Carrie Bivens with potomac economics, we filed this 01:01:46.590 --> 01:01:52.639 NPR to address the incentives that are created um, 01:01:52.650 --> 01:01:56.869 that have existed for some time but are exacerbated 01:01:56.869 --> 01:01:59.739 by the changing operational posture of ERCOT and the 01:01:59.739 --> 01:02:02.349 more frequent use of the reliability unit commitment 01:02:02.349 --> 01:02:08.070 tool. And we have concerns about how those incentives 01:02:08.070 --> 01:02:12.929 interact for large suppliers who um, you know, may 01:02:12.929 --> 01:02:18.230 be able to um behave in ways that are not efficient 01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:23.780 and so we filed a NPR that reduced the rock offer floor 01:02:23.780 --> 01:02:28.079 to $75 which is the current Non-spin Ding reserve service 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:35.219 floor From $1500, a megawatt hour. Thank you And ERCOT 01:02:35.219 --> 01:02:39.159 currently is using the reserves for Non-spin service 01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:43.170 and rock resources and uh, for similar operational 01:02:43.170 --> 01:02:47.369 purposes. And so that is why we decided to go ahead 01:02:47.369 --> 01:02:51.099 and make those the same for now. Uh, in addition removing 01:02:51.099 --> 01:02:56.309 the rock opt out is currently, it's a free option for 01:02:56.400 --> 01:03:01.679 resources to wait and not self commit, see if ERCOT 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:05.179 needs them and then they can opt out of rock settlement 01:03:05.190 --> 01:03:09.019 which also means opting out of clawback of profits 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:15.380 but opting out of make whole payments. And this will 01:03:15.449 --> 01:03:19.820 incentivize resources to more accurately reflect their 01:03:19.829 --> 01:03:24.420 expectation to run in the current and the future operating 01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:27.900 days because they will no longer be able to make that 01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:30.489 determination at the last minute. So what I expect 01:03:30.489 --> 01:03:34.320 to see is improve self commitment of resources and 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:38.670 fewer and fewer less need for or caught to do reliability 01:03:38.670 --> 01:03:43.599 commitments in the first place. Thank you uh, mm hmm 01:03:44.099 --> 01:03:47.269 This is the changing ERCOT dynamic as you all know 01:03:47.269 --> 01:03:50.150 as you mentioned, is related to the enhanced, increased 01:03:50.150 --> 01:03:54.630 reserves, enhanced reliability. We've built in to our 01:03:54.630 --> 01:03:57.019 operations, increased the answering services and increased 01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:01.239 the conservative approach that we're taking to running 01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:05.800 the grid which has resulted in more rugs. So this is 01:04:05.800 --> 01:04:08.360 very much designed to level the playing field for ERCOT 01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:11.110 participants and ensure the lowest costs for customers 01:04:12.989 --> 01:04:18.219 And um, at this time there was some talk about a natural 01:04:18.219 --> 01:04:21.139 gas based price index. We've been as a commission and 01:04:21.139 --> 01:04:24.630 moving away from that. I think right now, Having the 01:04:24.630 --> 01:04:29.590 $75 consistent with non spend makes sense. And once 01:04:29.590 --> 01:04:32.599 we get to real time co optimization, we can reevaluate 01:04:33.090 --> 01:04:37.280 Mhm. How that clears. I'll stop there, questions, comments 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:40.960 thoughts. Of course the goal is to get this to the 01:04:40.969 --> 01:04:44.059 ERCOT board in March, the third board meeting. 01:04:45.650 --> 01:04:49.340 Mr Chairman. I I personally agree with your memo. Um 01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:53.050 I had, I shared the same concerns about the fuel index 01:04:53.050 --> 01:04:58.760 price tie. Um I I don't want the puc in the position 01:04:58.769 --> 01:05:01.929 of setting the wholesale price of natural gas in any 01:05:01.929 --> 01:05:08.739 way and um I think that the gas markets watch what 01:05:08.739 --> 01:05:12.050 we say very closely and they know our limits are limitations 01:05:12.050 --> 01:05:15.909 they know our tops, they know our floors and what we 01:05:15.909 --> 01:05:20.260 say here impacts how they offer their products in the 01:05:20.260 --> 01:05:24.769 markets. So um I think your memo is the best approach 01:05:24.769 --> 01:05:25.099 forward. 01:05:27.989 --> 01:05:28.610 I agree. 01:05:30.590 --> 01:05:33.849 Right as a result of this discussion will go ahead 01:05:33.849 --> 01:05:37.400 and file comments that reflect the memo that Chairman 01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:40.190 Lake filed so that the stakeholders can consider that 01:05:40.190 --> 01:05:43.150 language and um it's moving through the stakeholder 01:05:43.150 --> 01:05:45.760 process and you know, if it goes expeditiously, hopefully 01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:48.599 it can go to the March or cardboard, appreciate that 01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:50.730 carrying. I will know if there was an element about 01:05:50.730 --> 01:05:54.380 related to the timing of between a very rare instance 01:05:54.380 --> 01:05:58.639 of timing between the rocks snapshot and a self commitment 01:05:58.659 --> 01:06:01.400 that's something that we definitely want to consider 01:06:02.250 --> 01:06:06.880 They need to fix just. But for the sake of expeditious 01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:10.630 implementation of this, let's call Well, let's move 01:06:10.630 --> 01:06:13.610 that to a different NPR are different proceeding so 01:06:13.610 --> 01:06:17.940 we can get this done. It is his merit wanted want to 01:06:17.940 --> 01:06:20.650 resolve that. Let's just get this done first. Thank 01:06:20.650 --> 01:06:22.000 you very much. Thank you Carrie, 01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:28.210 I don't have anything on 13 next few items were consented 01:06:28.219 --> 01:06:30.500 which brings us to item 16 01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:37.219 item 16 stock at 509 4/4 application of monarch utilities 01:06:37.230 --> 01:06:40.750 to change rates. A proposed order was filed January 01:06:40.750 --> 01:06:43.869 10. The correction memo was filed on January January 01:06:43.869 --> 01:06:48.119 20 and I have a memorandum with proposed changes to 01:06:48.119 --> 01:06:48.809 that order 01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:54.730 and I am recused from this case. I'm sorry. 01:06:56.579 --> 01:06:57.000 Thank you. 01:06:59.380 --> 01:07:02.320 This is a case in which we have a settlement but there 01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:04.300 were a couple of things that bothered me about it. 01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:07.530 It boils down to actuals are better than average is 01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:11.199 especially when it comes to protecting customers interest 01:07:11.210 --> 01:07:14.409 and fairness and cost allocation. 01:07:16.380 --> 01:07:19.690 We see a pretty high proposed it comes to the taffy 01:07:19.690 --> 01:07:24.059 and the damage service diversion fee averages or danger 01:07:24.059 --> 01:07:26.349 Well, everything at this point, everyone knows how 01:07:26.349 --> 01:07:31.050 I feel about averages, skydiving but in this particular 01:07:31.050 --> 01:07:32.199 case it's 01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:38.239 a few very high costs connections could bring up the 01:07:38.239 --> 01:07:42.150 average for folks. So which would mean a large number 01:07:42.150 --> 01:07:45.909 of low cost taps. Well, it would be subsidizing the 01:07:45.909 --> 01:07:47.030 few high costs 01:07:49.079 --> 01:07:53.909 peace. I think it's more fair and more straightforward 01:07:53.909 --> 01:07:56.829 Just to go with the actual costs on both the diversion 01:07:57.059 --> 01:08:01.739 or the damage and the tap fee dot Yeah, for a while 01:08:01.739 --> 01:08:05.500 Mr Chairman, I was torn but it took me all about two 01:08:05.500 --> 01:08:08.550 minutes. And then I came into your line of thinking 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:13.699 because look, I was thinking about hill country, granite 01:08:14.170 --> 01:08:16.100 in order to get water service in the hill country, 01:08:16.100 --> 01:08:20.199 it's more expensive um or some places in west texas 01:08:20.210 --> 01:08:23.250 you name it, This is a big utility, it's got footprints 01:08:23.250 --> 01:08:26.770 all over the place. Um It's the kind of utility that 01:08:26.770 --> 01:08:29.189 we've been trying to drive, you know, to expand and 01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:32.890 get service uh out to folks and their ability to socialize 01:08:32.890 --> 01:08:37.409 cost is a virtue most of the time. But I want folks 01:08:37.409 --> 01:08:41.859 to remember that and this is what I realized that if 01:08:41.859 --> 01:08:44.579 they're doing actual cost, if we're imposing actual 01:08:44.579 --> 01:08:47.470 costs on them, it's not really a deviation from what 01:08:47.470 --> 01:08:50.960 they would do anyway in the hill country, if they run 01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:56.069 into a really expensive project out and say granite 01:08:56.069 --> 01:08:59.569 shoals which its name is appropriate for the place 01:09:00.069 --> 01:09:02.100 Um And they have to drill through, granted they're 01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:05.699 going to impose a non standard installation or they're 01:09:05.699 --> 01:09:08.369 going to invoke that non standard installation provisions 01:09:08.369 --> 01:09:10.970 from their contract anyway, which will would allow 01:09:10.970 --> 01:09:13.659 for those expensive costs to be directed to that project 01:09:13.670 --> 01:09:18.739 regardless. So, um I think actual costs in this this 01:09:18.750 --> 01:09:20.399 circumstance is appropriate 01:09:23.630 --> 01:09:28.239 on both. Taffy and damaged diversion service diversion 01:09:28.239 --> 01:09:33.680 v alright, in that case, I'd say we prove this proposed 01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:37.859 order with modifications to adjust the tap fee and 01:09:37.859 --> 01:09:41.729 the damage of service diversion fee to actual cost 01:09:42.369 --> 01:09:44.810 that work for you? All. All right. Is there a motion 01:09:44.810 --> 01:09:47.560 to approve the proposed order as modified by our discussion 01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:51.500 and commission council's january 26th memo. Second 01:09:51.859 --> 01:09:55.000 All in favor say, aye, I don't oppose the motion passes 01:09:57.170 --> 01:09:59.439 That brings us to 18 and believe Mr 01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:11.659 Out of 18 in stock at 51552. So, petition of Willowbrook 01:10:11.659 --> 01:10:14.729 water systems to discontinue water service and cancel 01:10:14.729 --> 01:10:18.979 it. CCN. A proposed order was filed on October five 01:10:19.460 --> 01:10:22.779 No corrections or exceptions were filed. I have a memorandum 01:10:22.779 --> 01:10:24.789 with proposed changes to the order. 01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:30.680 Thank you sir. I think this is out of the gates or 01:10:31.060 --> 01:10:38.539 Processing this under the correct 24.245 and this is 01:10:38.770 --> 01:10:45.289 in good shape. The only concern I have is in this, 01:10:45.300 --> 01:10:48.109 in this case, it's there's no customers so it's not 01:10:48.109 --> 01:10:50.579 really an issue. But I am wary of setting a precedent 01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.289 from this commission that we don't, we don't require 01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:59.279 CCN holders to provide notice to customers and landowners 01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:02.689 in the event they're going to discontinue service. 01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:05.859 So I'd ask that you will consider 01:11:07.760 --> 01:11:09.979 remaining this back to Willowbrook so they can do that 01:11:09.979 --> 01:11:12.449 In this case it's zero customers and I would do want 01:11:12.449 --> 01:11:15.779 to say I appreciate this CCN holder doing the right 01:11:15.779 --> 01:11:20.039 thing being proactive in coming the commission to just 01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:22.850 continue that that CCN when it's not not providing 01:11:22.850 --> 01:11:26.020 service. So this this this these folks are doing the 01:11:26.020 --> 01:11:28.989 right thing. I appreciate that this is more about setting 01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.569 a precedent for future cases than it is about this 01:11:31.569 --> 01:11:33.939 particular. Well CCM 01:11:35.770 --> 01:11:39.699 I agree. I would I would have a probably a different 01:11:39.699 --> 01:11:42.750 opinion if it was a huge class of customers. But I 01:11:42.750 --> 01:11:45.149 think there were three customers that aren't customers 01:11:45.149 --> 01:11:48.689 anymore and uh it's a pretty small area. So you know 01:11:48.689 --> 01:11:51.039 I think setting the precedent that look, we've got 01:11:51.039 --> 01:11:53.369 to notify customers is the right thing to do. Going 01:11:54.460 --> 01:11:58.750 Yeah. Sorry go ahead please. Yeah. In terms of the 01:11:58.750 --> 01:12:01.329 broad policy I want to continue to reinforce and I 01:12:01.329 --> 01:12:05.979 believe we are doing that um wanna enhance our ability 01:12:05.979 --> 01:12:08.470 to clean up defunct utilities. You know, get them off 01:12:08.470 --> 01:12:11.439 the books, get that territory freed up for someone 01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:15.460 else to come in and serve hopefully in the future but 01:12:15.539 --> 01:12:20.789 but to also continue to reinforce the enshrined policy 01:12:20.789 --> 01:12:25.399 of requiring notice so that folks are informed when 01:12:25.630 --> 01:12:28.329 when their utility is gonna go away. So I agree with 01:12:28.329 --> 01:12:32.100 you. Mr Chairman And I agree on both points and the 01:12:32.100 --> 01:12:35.890 processing of the case under 16 to 24 - 45 and especially 01:12:35.890 --> 01:12:39.050 the notice. Um That's really that's a very important 01:12:39.050 --> 01:12:42.220 issue. Um You know, each customer and landowner needs 01:12:42.220 --> 01:12:45.529 to receive notice. Public notice is not sufficient 01:12:45.539 --> 01:12:48.800 Um This is a critical service right? Water. We want 01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:51.770 to make sure that um each customer and each landowner 01:12:52.250 --> 01:12:54.930 gets noticed and said that president clear precedent 01:12:54.930 --> 01:13:00.479 for the future and we'll put all in its customers and 01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:04.010 landowners customers and if folks are running they 01:13:04.010 --> 01:13:07.890 get noticed as well. I appreciate your thoughts on 01:13:07.890 --> 01:13:10.199 that. Is there a motion to remand the case to document 01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:13.069 management to require Willowbrook to provide individual 01:13:13.069 --> 01:13:16.720 notice of the CCN revocation to all customers and landowners 01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:21.710 in the service territory. All in favor say aye. I'm 01:13:21.710 --> 01:13:25.880 not opposed. The motion passes brings us to item 19 01:13:26.449 --> 01:13:31.109 Mr. Please item 19 is docked at 5168 eight's application 01:13:31.109 --> 01:13:33.479 of T. And W. Water services company for an accounting 01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:38.590 order. We did not file a draft preliminary order in 01:13:38.590 --> 01:13:42.060 this case because we issued a briefing order that if 01:13:42.069 --> 01:13:44.689 depending on how the commission answers, it may resolve 01:13:44.689 --> 01:13:49.100 the case. Uh And so parties have filed briefs and reply 01:13:49.100 --> 01:13:52.149 briefs on those threshold issues in there before you 01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:56.430 today. Thank you sir. A couple of things to tackle 01:13:56.430 --> 01:13:58.939 in this first and foremost, we have the authority to 01:13:58.939 --> 01:14:02.609 issue accounting orders. Oh yes, very clear that we 01:14:02.609 --> 01:14:07.979 do right. Yes. Whether we should on this. If our authority 01:14:07.979 --> 01:14:12.609 extends to a contract dispute or by some means working 01:14:12.609 --> 01:14:18.079 around a contract dispute to avoid obligations incurred 01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:21.659 as part of a otherwise legally binding contract between 01:14:21.659 --> 01:14:25.359 sophisticated parties. Absolutely, do we? I don't think 01:14:25.359 --> 01:14:28.529 we have that authority to use the accounting order 01:14:28.529 --> 01:14:32.329 tool for contract work arounds. And more importantly 01:14:33.439 --> 01:14:37.140 I don't want anyone to think this commission is to 01:14:37.140 --> 01:14:41.000 be used as a mechanism to weasel out of contracts. 01:14:42.039 --> 01:14:44.199 If you've got a contract dispute, you take that up 01:14:44.210 --> 01:14:50.090 with the courts are. Commission is not here to help 01:14:50.090 --> 01:14:55.340 folks weasel out of contracts. No. And for for not 01:14:55.340 --> 01:14:58.369 only on the principle, but staff resources and otherwise 01:14:58.939 --> 01:15:04.729 we're not a mechanism for people to avoid liabilities 01:15:04.729 --> 01:15:08.430 that were incurred in the past just because they don't 01:15:08.430 --> 01:15:13.069 happen to like the whatever the contract they I signed 01:15:13.069 --> 01:15:13.460 up for, 01:15:15.109 --> 01:15:20.039 that's all I've got. Well said I'd like a weasel to 01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:24.829 be a defined term somewhere just like wazoo. But no 01:15:24.829 --> 01:15:28.529 I I do not believe the commission has the authority 01:15:28.529 --> 01:15:32.840 to take over um a utility under an accounting order 01:15:32.949 --> 01:15:36.560 I want to draw a bright line on that. Um I fear 01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:40.010 our power and I think that's healthy to fear our power 01:15:40.170 --> 01:15:43.210 and it should be used with great restraint and under 01:15:43.210 --> 01:15:48.079 the strict conditions of the law. So um I concur mr 01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:52.140 jim and I agree as well. Um we definitely have the 01:15:52.140 --> 01:15:54.119 statutory authority to issue had accounting order, 01:15:54.130 --> 01:16:00.060 but um the accounting order. Um the power that we have 01:16:00.630 --> 01:16:03.640 the kid is not to be used to insert ourselves into 01:16:03.640 --> 01:16:06.149 a contractual dispute that is for the courts to decide 01:16:08.529 --> 01:16:09.250 I'm in agreement. 01:16:11.229 --> 01:16:14.500 Thank you. Commissioner. That being the case, is there 01:16:14.500 --> 01:16:17.279 a motion to direct a PDM to prefer preliminary order 01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:18.600 consistent with our discussion. 01:16:20.569 --> 01:16:24.649 All in favor say aye. None opposed motion passes 01:16:26.430 --> 01:16:30.430 Which will move us ahead to item 25 I believe 01:16:32.920 --> 01:16:37.390 Item 25 is docked at 5-556 the petition of Montgomery 01:16:37.390 --> 01:16:43.630 estates to amend the gulf coast Authority CCN by expedited 01:16:43.630 --> 01:16:48.010 release we have the judge has certified an issue to 01:16:48.010 --> 01:16:51.279 you related to determining the time 01:16:52.829 --> 01:16:56.340 when you determine whether county is a qualified county 01:16:56.729 --> 01:17:00.050 parties have filed briefs on that issue and it is before 01:17:00.050 --> 01:17:01.850 you today. Thank you sir. 01:17:03.529 --> 01:17:06.460 We've got this certified issue in front of us. The 01:17:07.430 --> 01:17:10.609 Government code provides us with some guidance on this 01:17:10.609 --> 01:17:13.409 It seems pretty straightforward that points to using 01:17:13.409 --> 01:17:15.090 the 2010 federal census. 01:17:17.329 --> 01:17:18.119 Pretty straightforward 01:17:20.069 --> 01:17:24.409 thoughts, comments or a motion to instruct docket management 01:17:24.409 --> 01:17:26.590 to prepare an order on the certified issue consistent 01:17:26.590 --> 01:17:28.619 with our discussion. I would move to instruct docket 01:17:28.619 --> 01:17:32.250 manager Just to clarify too. We're pointing to government 01:17:32.250 --> 01:17:35.960 code to 2058.021. 01:17:38.930 --> 01:17:41.289 We got we got a motion and a second all in favor 01:17:41.289 --> 01:17:48.569 say aye. And opposed the motion passes Nothing on 26 01:17:48.569 --> 01:17:54.210 27 Please. Mr jr given the overlapping 01:17:56.329 --> 01:17:59.890 Issues at stake with 28. Should we take these up together 01:17:59.899 --> 01:18:02.960 I think Yes sir. On the briefing issue. They should 01:18:02.960 --> 01:18:04.350 both be discussed together. 01:18:06.520 --> 01:18:08.479 Alright, could you lay that out for us 01:18:10.420 --> 01:18:14.500 Item 27 is docked at 50965 application of community 01:18:14.500 --> 01:18:18.149 telephone to recover funds from the Texas. Universal 01:18:18.149 --> 01:18:21.189 Service Fund for reductions in federal for calendar 01:18:21.189 --> 01:18:27.180 year 2019. And doc at 50,970. Is an application to 01:18:27.180 --> 01:18:33.430 recover those funds for calendar year 2018. The commission 01:18:33.430 --> 01:18:36.920 has issued two briefing orders in this docket related 01:18:36.930 --> 01:18:43.149 to the applicability or availability of Tus F to replace 01:18:43.149 --> 01:18:48.359 federal funds that were for broadband service. Parties 01:18:48.359 --> 01:18:52.510 have filed briefs and reply briefs and that issues 01:18:52.510 --> 01:18:55.050 before you. Once you decide that issue, we do have 01:18:55.050 --> 01:18:56.609 proposed orders in both dockets 01:18:58.119 --> 01:19:02.640 that you may want to address. Okay so we can um address 01:19:02.640 --> 01:19:07.460 the briefing issue here. Loss of F USF funds due to 01:19:07.460 --> 01:19:08.449 FCC action. 01:19:10.220 --> 01:19:14.229 There's a couple different pieces of pure that address 01:19:14.229 --> 01:19:19.279 This my reading is that. And president this commission 01:19:19.279 --> 01:19:21.829 has been to replace U. S. T. S T U S. F 01:19:21.829 --> 01:19:30.489 To replace F. U. S. F. There's a list of of eligible 01:19:30.729 --> 01:19:36.119 uses but as the statute reads it's including but not 01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:38.989 limited to list and so I think it's 01:19:40.600 --> 01:19:44.119 and coming to us to replenish those funds but part 01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:45.880 certainly opened the thoughts and comments. 01:19:47.810 --> 01:19:52.229 I mean the law looks pretty clear. I mean I can read 01:19:52.229 --> 01:19:54.260 it out loud if you want but I don't think I need 01:19:54.260 --> 01:19:58.149 to to set the table on this. Um I agree as well 01:19:59.920 --> 01:20:00.430 Agreement. 01:20:02.109 --> 01:20:05.289 Okay in that case I'll entertain a motion to approve 01:20:05.289 --> 01:20:07.460 the proposed order with appropriate modifications to 01:20:07.460 --> 01:20:11.439 clarify the commissions to USF authority in accordance 01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:14.960 with our discussion. Do you need anything else? Just 01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:17.539 the clarity that were proven to proposed orders? One 01:20:17.539 --> 01:20:17.770 in the 01:20:21.510 --> 01:20:25.939 so moved second. All in favor say aye, 01:20:27.510 --> 01:20:30.229 I don't oppose the motion passes for both 01:20:32.810 --> 01:20:37.829 Talk at 50965 and Doc at 50,970 01:20:40.409 --> 01:20:45.039 both proposed orders that will bring us to 29 30. I 01:20:45.050 --> 01:20:49.779 don't have anything on those items. 31 Mr johnny, could 01:20:49.779 --> 01:20:54.069 you lay that out for us? 31 project 5 to 805. Review 01:20:54.069 --> 01:21:00.300 of title 16 in texas administrative code rule 27 .170 01:21:00.300 --> 01:21:04.449 before you uh commission staff filed a memorandum and 01:21:04.449 --> 01:21:07.460 a proposed order that would adopt amendments to that 01:21:07.470 --> 01:21:10.479 rule. Good morning Mr Spencer. Good morning Commissioner 01:21:11.180 --> 01:21:13.390 We thought that we should get at least one of these 01:21:13.390 --> 01:21:16.029 things done this month and so we are proceeding with 01:21:16.029 --> 01:21:20.489 the DJ rule. Um All this does is pull our advanced 01:21:20.489 --> 01:21:24.430 contract monitoring rules in line with statute and 01:21:24.430 --> 01:21:27.899 our current practices and it also allows you to play 01:21:27.899 --> 01:21:29.689 your music as loud as you want if you start your work 01:21:29.689 --> 01:21:32.659 day at three like jay does. So uh these are the core 01:21:32.670 --> 01:21:34.640 these are the core provisions of this rule and it is 01:21:34.649 --> 01:21:36.029 uh we recommended option. 01:21:37.909 --> 01:21:40.220 Thank you for your comprehensive approach to contract 01:21:40.220 --> 01:21:46.369 management. J I'm glad you're on it at all hours. This 01:21:46.369 --> 01:21:53.090 is music notwithstanding enhances that. He review standards 01:21:53.430 --> 01:21:57.729 and oversight relationships from the PdC and contract 01:21:57.729 --> 01:22:01.020 and vendors, contractors, vendors, which is of course 01:22:01.020 --> 01:22:04.520 a good thing and in compliance with statues, statute 01:22:04.899 --> 01:22:10.319 any Thoughts, comments or motion to approve the proposal 01:22:10.319 --> 01:22:12.119 for an option. I just want to say I feel such a 01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:14.430 profound sense of accomplishment. Every time we move 01:22:14.430 --> 01:22:18.819 one of the 40 rule makings that we have so thanks Mr 01:22:18.819 --> 01:22:21.920 Small sir, having to do it. There's been a lot of three 01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:26.409 a.m. s. and weekends from this team. He was luckily 01:22:26.409 --> 01:22:29.909 this was, this was not one of those, this is a business 01:22:29.909 --> 01:22:35.039 hours. Just take the compliment. Happy to do it so 01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:38.460 moved the motion. Is there a second, all in favor? 01:22:38.460 --> 01:22:44.130 Say, aye, opposed motion passes, Which brings us to 01:22:44.140 --> 01:22:49.319 item 33, An update from our executive director. Mr 01:22:49.319 --> 01:22:52.729 Gleason. Thank you. Mr Chairman and Good morning Commissioners 01:22:52.739 --> 01:22:56.050 Just two items this morning. First. Um, the digital 01:22:56.050 --> 01:22:59.550 transformation of the puc continues at breakneck speed 01:22:59.550 --> 01:23:02.520 I'm happy to report that our interchange file is now 01:23:02.520 --> 01:23:06.720 capable of receiving confidential filings electronically 01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:11.039 So, um, the website has been updated with instructions 01:23:11.039 --> 01:23:13.020 for doing so and if parties have any questions about 01:23:13.020 --> 01:23:15.619 doing that, they can reach out to central records. 01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:19.460 Second is the physical nature of the puc coming along 01:23:19.470 --> 01:23:25.189 You know, the same speed. Sir. We we we're still on 01:23:25.189 --> 01:23:27.329 for everyone. That would be the build out of new offices 01:23:27.329 --> 01:23:30.760 which is at including your office. You have an office 01:23:31.409 --> 01:23:34.989 It is a number one at the top of my list for 01:23:34.989 --> 01:23:37.510 our new chief administrative Officer to really get 01:23:37.510 --> 01:23:40.630 on top of. So that That your permanent office is ready 01:23:40.630 --> 01:23:46.229 to go. Hopefully before 2023 response. That's the hope 01:23:46.800 --> 01:23:49.710 The second item this morning is just a quick mapping 01:23:49.710 --> 01:23:52.260 update. We had our public meeting two weeks ago. It 01:23:52.260 --> 01:23:55.569 went very well. I would say for us to have the ability 01:23:55.569 --> 01:23:58.659 to get information out to the public and to interested 01:23:58.659 --> 01:24:00.920 parties about what we've been doing behind the scenes 01:24:01.289 --> 01:24:03.340 where we stand right now is we're working with the 01:24:03.340 --> 01:24:07.939 Railroad Commission to get pertinent information from 01:24:07.939 --> 01:24:10.880 gas facilities such as easy ideas to to have those 01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:13.649 facilities on the map and we are working with electric 01:24:13.649 --> 01:24:18.050 utilities to get geographic distribution line information 01:24:18.050 --> 01:24:21.130 which of course is critical to getting this map done 01:24:21.130 --> 01:24:23.619 We want all that information on the first iteration 01:24:23.619 --> 01:24:25.899 of the map that we've committed to getting done in 01:24:25.899 --> 01:24:29.640 april and um you know, I know that that first map is 01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:32.319 tied to the railroad commission working on their weatherization 01:24:32.319 --> 01:24:36.329 rules before next winter. And so I'm confident that 01:24:36.329 --> 01:24:38.340 we'll get all the information we need that no one wants 01:24:38.340 --> 01:24:41.270 to delay us getting that first iteration of the map 01:24:41.270 --> 01:24:41.520 out 01:24:43.289 --> 01:24:47.699 agreed that's an incredibly important part of all these 01:24:47.710 --> 01:24:50.539 coordinated efforts. Yes sir. Thank you for the update 01:24:50.539 --> 01:24:55.029 Any questions for Mr. Gleason? No, sir. All right. 01:24:55.039 --> 01:25:00.329 That's concludes our agenda for today, so having no 01:25:00.329 --> 01:25:02.329 further business to come before this commission. This 01:25:02.329 --> 01:25:04.850 meeting, the Public Utility commission of texas is 01:25:04.850 --> 01:25:08.050 hereby adjourned. Thank you.