WEBVTT 00:00:10.202 --> 00:00:11.860 So, we are going to get going. 00:00:11.860 --> 00:00:14.170 My name is Laura Arkley with Tetra Tech. 00:00:14.170 --> 00:00:15.940 I have the privilege of leading 00:00:15.940 --> 00:00:19.140 the Evaluation Measurement and Verification. 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:20.863 I'll call it EM&V from here on out, 00:00:20.863 --> 00:00:22.870 because it's such a mouthful, 00:00:22.870 --> 00:00:26.060 the EM&V effort for the Commission, 00:00:26.060 --> 00:00:28.717 working with the Investor Owned Utilities, the IOUs 00:00:29.590 --> 00:00:33.470 and Therese Harris is here with me from Commission Staff. 00:00:33.470 --> 00:00:35.870 And we're looking forward to a great session today 00:00:35.870 --> 00:00:38.820 going over 2020 accomplishments, 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:43.520 what we're doing on 2021 and what's on deck for 2022. 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.350 We are gonna start with introductions. 00:00:45.350 --> 00:00:47.680 We're gonna start in the room. 00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:48.820 And then on the phone, 00:00:48.820 --> 00:00:50.160 we're actually gonna go by groups. 00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:53.523 So I think we'll do group, a group in person on the phone. 00:00:54.510 --> 00:00:56.930 So let's start with our utilities first. 00:00:56.930 --> 00:00:58.030 We'll go in person. 00:00:58.030 --> 00:01:00.687 And then who's on the phone. 00:01:02.315 --> 00:01:03.545 I'm ready when you are. 00:01:03.545 --> 00:01:04.378 (laughing) 00:01:04.378 --> 00:01:05.211 I'm not. 00:01:05.211 --> 00:01:06.249 Oh, you tell him he's first- 00:01:06.249 --> 00:01:08.739 I was following Gary's instructions. 00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:09.572 (laughing) 00:01:09.572 --> 00:01:10.599 Well, Gary he doesn't even want to go first. 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:11.432 Gary, you go first. 00:01:11.432 --> 00:01:13.443 Hi, I'm Gary Jones with Oncor. 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:19.373 Shea Richardson with CenterPoint Energy. 00:01:22.059 --> 00:01:23.819 All right. 00:01:23.819 --> 00:01:26.319 All right. On the phone please from the utilities. 00:01:31.150 --> 00:01:34.163 This is Ron from office for A contestants. 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:38.117 We got a few of our team members on the board as well. 00:01:38.117 --> 00:01:39.573 Great. Great to have y'all. 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:47.049 Good morning. Sorry there Shelly. 00:01:47.049 --> 00:01:48.299 Okay. Go ahead. 00:01:52.941 --> 00:01:57.210 Good morning. (indistinct) 00:01:57.210 --> 00:02:01.070 Good morning. This is Anna from El Paso Electric 00:02:01.070 --> 00:02:02.770 with members of our team, as well. 00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:04.553 Wonderful. 00:02:10.893 --> 00:02:13.670 , Hi this is Jerry Mobley with Xcel Energy 00:02:14.689 --> 00:02:16.739 and we also have Brian and Rob O'Connell. 00:02:18.160 --> 00:02:18.993 Fabulous. 00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:24.570 (indistinct talking on phone speaker) 00:02:24.570 --> 00:02:26.167 I'm here with Ken Griffith 00:02:26.167 --> 00:02:27.584 from CenterPoint. 00:02:30.380 --> 00:02:31.213 Great. 00:02:32.670 --> 00:02:35.063 This is Mary from CenterPoint Energy. 00:02:36.820 --> 00:02:37.653 Wonderful. 00:02:38.877 --> 00:02:39.963 I'm here with Jeremy. 00:02:41.760 --> 00:02:43.540 How bout EnterG? Kelly or Mark? 00:02:43.540 --> 00:02:46.143 Do we have anyone from EnterG on? 00:02:54.237 --> 00:02:57.740 I think, I think EnterG has only one I didn't hear on yet. 00:02:57.740 --> 00:02:59.910 So I'll check back with that. 00:02:59.910 --> 00:03:03.993 All right, so how about contractors that work directly 00:03:03.993 --> 00:03:07.010 with the utilities, implementation, database, anything? 00:03:07.010 --> 00:03:08.957 Derek is ready to go, so. 00:03:08.957 --> 00:03:09.790 (laughing) 00:03:09.790 --> 00:03:10.623 Derek, go first. 00:03:10.623 --> 00:03:11.783 Sure, I'm Derek. I'm with Frontier Energy. 00:03:14.828 --> 00:03:17.068 I'm Tim McConkey with TLC Companies. 00:03:17.068 --> 00:03:18.430 With Frontier Energy. 00:03:18.430 --> 00:03:19.493 Great. All right. 00:03:20.330 --> 00:03:21.793 Steve Alison with ICF. 00:03:25.730 --> 00:03:27.133 Yes, Phil? 00:03:27.133 --> 00:03:29.560 Phil Odette, Inner Choice. 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:30.700 Ilya Odette, Inner Choice. 00:03:30.700 --> 00:03:32.830 Great, wonderful to have y'all. 00:03:32.830 --> 00:03:33.663 All right. 00:03:34.858 --> 00:03:36.730 (indistinct talking) 00:03:36.730 --> 00:03:38.630 I have Joey from TC. 00:03:38.630 --> 00:03:40.680 Who does your onsites, came in from EM&V, 00:03:42.025 --> 00:03:43.270 so I will go ahead and introduce him too. 00:03:43.270 --> 00:03:45.760 All right, so our stakeholders that we're so pleased 00:03:45.760 --> 00:03:47.560 to have you with us. 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:50.122 Back in the corner there. 00:03:50.122 --> 00:03:52.292 (laughing) 00:03:52.292 --> 00:03:54.300 3rd grade choir. 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:55.700 Cyrus Reed with Sierra club. 00:03:58.100 --> 00:03:59.490 Are you in our stakeholder group? 00:03:59.490 --> 00:04:00.870 Yes, so my name is Brooke Commit. 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:02.570 I'm here on behalf of Opaque. 00:04:02.570 --> 00:04:03.500 Okay, great. 00:04:03.500 --> 00:04:05.190 Wonderful to have you. 00:04:05.190 --> 00:04:06.023 All right. 00:04:06.980 --> 00:04:10.087 On the phone, those from our stakeholder groups. 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:18.550 All right. 00:04:18.550 --> 00:04:21.970 So the way we are going to do today's presentation 00:04:21.970 --> 00:04:24.290 is I think it is really nice to go ahead 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:27.980 and take questions in person if they come up. 00:04:27.980 --> 00:04:32.980 So let's still do that, but for those on the phone, 00:04:33.090 --> 00:04:34.370 I know it's, it's, you know, 00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:36.233 I can't see you raise your hand. 00:04:37.542 --> 00:04:39.900 And so we're gonna pause at the end of each session 00:04:39.900 --> 00:04:42.730 to take questions from those on the phone. 00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:45.870 So we'll, we'll kind of have a mix of both questions 00:04:45.870 --> 00:04:49.110 here in person and on the phone. 00:04:49.110 --> 00:04:52.720 We did disable the chat on the Teams meeting, 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.910 just because we want us all to be able to, you know, 00:04:55.910 --> 00:04:57.450 actively dialogue. 00:04:57.450 --> 00:05:00.330 And since we can't see the chat here, 00:05:00.330 --> 00:05:04.370 we do ask that you go ahead and ask your questions 00:05:04.370 --> 00:05:06.990 on the teleconference, when we take that pause, 00:05:06.990 --> 00:05:09.520 we definitely want your participation. 00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:11.440 We just tried to facilitate it in a way 00:05:11.440 --> 00:05:14.173 we could all hear the questions. 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:16.133 All right. 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:21.940 So getting going. 00:05:21.940 --> 00:05:23.510 We're gonna start, 00:05:23.510 --> 00:05:26.280 I'm gonna present first this morning, 00:05:26.280 --> 00:05:28.700 going over 2020 accomplishments, 00:05:28.700 --> 00:05:31.770 key findings and recommendations from the EM&V, 00:05:31.770 --> 00:05:34.740 what we're currently doing for 2021. 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:36.350 And then we're really pleased 00:05:36.350 --> 00:05:40.650 to have the Texas Energy Poverty Research Institute 00:05:40.650 --> 00:05:44.030 will be joining us for an in depth study 00:05:44.030 --> 00:05:47.530 that they did for Oncor and presenting those results. 00:05:47.530 --> 00:05:48.790 So that will be next. 00:05:48.790 --> 00:05:50.240 And then we will take a break 00:05:51.515 --> 00:05:55.210 and Therese will introduce the TRM and the approval process. 00:05:55.210 --> 00:05:59.550 And then Derek with EUMMAT will present the TRM updates. 00:05:59.550 --> 00:06:04.163 And we are condensed, going from 9:30 to 12:30 this morning. 00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:06.890 We figured we'd lose everyone on the phone 00:06:06.890 --> 00:06:09.063 if we took a break, so. 00:06:11.550 --> 00:06:12.383 All right. 00:06:16.400 --> 00:06:20.660 So, this will be the last year when we show the map 00:06:20.660 --> 00:06:22.950 of the various utility territories, 00:06:22.950 --> 00:06:25.980 where you will see nine different territories. 00:06:25.980 --> 00:06:29.290 AEP, Texas is one utility now, 00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:33.880 but through 2020 they still had their separate goals 00:06:33.880 --> 00:06:35.280 for the separate territories. 00:06:35.280 --> 00:06:38.410 But, starting in 2021, we'll redo this map 00:06:38.410 --> 00:06:40.033 and we'll be down to eight IOUs. 00:06:41.397 --> 00:06:44.840 So you can see very good coverage across the state. 00:06:44.840 --> 00:06:48.150 Some of the utility territories are very far flung, 00:06:48.150 --> 00:06:50.622 like AEP's and Oncor. 00:06:50.622 --> 00:06:53.000 Some of them are more concentrated around a particular area 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:56.490 like CenterPoint, so quite a diversity there. 00:06:56.490 --> 00:07:00.290 Huge amount of savings delivered through the programs. 00:07:00.290 --> 00:07:02.410 I can't help but get to the punchline. 00:07:02.410 --> 00:07:03.700 I just work that way. 00:07:03.700 --> 00:07:06.690 So, it is the greatest accomplishment yet, 00:07:06.690 --> 00:07:10.500 even in the coronavirus pandemic, 00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:13.283 that utilities had significant accomplishments. 00:07:13.283 --> 00:07:16.140 So, looking at the energy savings 00:07:16.140 --> 00:07:19.890 we're talking about over 30,000 homes annually 00:07:19.890 --> 00:07:21.000 can be powered by that 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:23.260 using some of the averages out there. 00:07:23.260 --> 00:07:24.550 There are a few different averages, 00:07:24.550 --> 00:07:29.550 so I just pulled one and estimated on that. 00:07:29.707 --> 00:07:32.010 And the demand reductions are, you know, 00:07:32.010 --> 00:07:34.063 could be viewed as a smaller power plant. 00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:37.730 And then we have those energy savings 00:07:37.730 --> 00:07:42.160 are about 2 cents a kilowatt hour 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:46.350 and just under 12 for the KW reductions 00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.170 based on the lifetime savings cost. 00:07:48.170 --> 00:07:53.123 And we have more details on all of those results there. 00:07:55.452 --> 00:07:58.150 And as a reminder, the lifetime savings cost, 00:07:58.150 --> 00:08:00.060 those are different depending on the measure, 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:01.650 the amount of time- 00:08:01.650 --> 00:08:02.880 That's, that's exactly right. 00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:06.030 So those are based on the measure of life 00:08:06.030 --> 00:08:08.080 for all the measures that are put in. 00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:11.870 So we have some measures that last a long time, 00:08:11.870 --> 00:08:13.750 such as insulation. 00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:17.000 And we have some that which are shorter times like HVAC, 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.033 but, you know, still considerable. 00:08:19.930 --> 00:08:22.280 Demand response is just one year. 00:08:22.280 --> 00:08:25.730 So that's the one that is only had the one year lifetime, 00:08:25.730 --> 00:08:27.700 because that is annual participation 00:08:27.700 --> 00:08:29.250 to get those demand reductions. 00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:34.163 All right. 00:08:34.163 --> 00:08:37.050 So what are some huge accomplishments for 2020? 00:08:37.050 --> 00:08:39.500 How can we not lead off with the fact 00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:43.403 that the utilities were very successful, 00:08:44.410 --> 00:08:48.080 responding to the challenges of the pandemic. 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:51.437 They all made time to talk with me and Therese 00:08:52.730 --> 00:08:55.500 about how things were going, how they were responding, 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:57.390 just like work all over, 00:08:57.390 --> 00:08:58.980 they had to immediately shift 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:03.980 to most utilities staff being remote, at least for awhile. 00:09:04.050 --> 00:09:06.940 There were also some areas where it shut down any work 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:07.993 in the homes, 00:09:08.890 --> 00:09:11.070 then things lifted and they had to figure out 00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:13.680 and help contractors, work with contractors 00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:16.513 to get them back out and safely into homes. 00:09:17.550 --> 00:09:18.530 Then all of a sudden 00:09:18.530 --> 00:09:21.319 we started having supply chain shortages. 00:09:21.319 --> 00:09:22.210 So there, you know, 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:25.680 there were immense challenges that the utilities 00:09:25.680 --> 00:09:28.050 and their contractors really worked hard 00:09:28.050 --> 00:09:30.300 and rose to the occasion. 00:09:30.300 --> 00:09:32.820 So, I think it's just really worth noticing 00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:34.370 that that was accomplished 00:09:34.370 --> 00:09:36.470 through a lot of hard work and commitment. 00:09:36.470 --> 00:09:40.940 So, very successful response to the COVID pandemic. 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:43.930 We'll talk a little bit about some of the things 00:09:43.930 --> 00:09:48.920 from going to remote QAQC in a few slides, 00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:50.890 that is something that we might carry over, 00:09:50.890 --> 00:09:53.380 some best practices that utilities might want to do 00:09:53.380 --> 00:09:54.353 that going forward. 00:09:56.790 --> 00:09:57.780 In that they continue to expand 00:09:57.780 --> 00:10:01.910 energy efficiency offerings of the different ways 00:10:01.910 --> 00:10:03.700 that they were reaching customers. 00:10:03.700 --> 00:10:06.980 Some of that got an extra boost from the pandemic. 00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:10.390 You'll see, when we get to the types of programs, 00:10:10.390 --> 00:10:13.940 we saw more through an upstream or midstream model, 00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:17.800 so where you're not working directly with the customers, 00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:20.860 but through someone in the distribution chain, 00:10:20.860 --> 00:10:22.820 a distributor for the midstream 00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:24.930 or a retailer for the upstream. 00:10:24.930 --> 00:10:28.200 So we did see an increase in that for 2020. 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:30.400 That is the way that some of the utilities 00:10:30.400 --> 00:10:32.550 also were successful is, you know, 00:10:32.550 --> 00:10:34.970 they did some more through upstream and midstream 00:10:34.970 --> 00:10:36.070 in order to respond 00:10:36.070 --> 00:10:38.773 to not being able to get into as many homes in 2020. 00:10:40.650 --> 00:10:43.530 It's the highest cost effectiveness to date. 00:10:43.530 --> 00:10:44.760 We'll see that graph. 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:47.410 It was 4.0 Statewide, 00:10:47.410 --> 00:10:48.910 but it's also the highest avoided cost. 00:10:48.910 --> 00:10:50.853 So that is a lot to do with it. 00:10:50.853 --> 00:10:53.810 It goes down slightly in 2021, 00:10:53.810 --> 00:10:57.300 and we don't quite know what it's gonna be in 2022 yet, 00:10:57.300 --> 00:10:59.370 but we'll know that soon. 00:10:59.370 --> 00:11:01.290 But that's not the only driver. 00:11:01.290 --> 00:11:03.670 It was also that upstream and midstream model 00:11:03.670 --> 00:11:05.580 was very cost-effective. 00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:09.180 So, that also helped the cost effectiveness. 00:11:09.180 --> 00:11:12.300 We already talked about the increased savings 00:11:12.300 --> 00:11:15.230 and we just really want to point out 00:11:15.230 --> 00:11:16.610 with all the challenges, 00:11:16.610 --> 00:11:19.490 there were also things that really required 00:11:19.490 --> 00:11:23.480 a lot of collaboration on improvements. 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:27.390 And, so despite everything going on 00:11:27.390 --> 00:11:31.240 the utilities and EUMMAT worked very closely with staff 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:32.950 and the EM&V team 00:11:32.950 --> 00:11:35.320 on some improvements that were identified 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.140 as being needed to be done. 00:11:37.140 --> 00:11:39.270 The big one, which we'll talk about today 00:11:39.270 --> 00:11:42.510 is the eligibility process for the low income 00:11:42.510 --> 00:11:44.520 and Hard2Reach programs. 00:11:44.520 --> 00:11:45.680 So add on, 00:11:45.680 --> 00:11:49.895 they were already responding to TRM updates in the pandemic, 00:11:49.895 --> 00:11:51.500 and then we had a big process improvement 00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:53.290 that everybody had to work on together. 00:11:53.290 --> 00:11:56.254 So, really just noting that collaboration, 00:11:56.254 --> 00:12:00.120 even with all the challenges is really a big success. 00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:03.333 All right. 00:12:06.890 --> 00:12:09.231 I'm giving a little pause. 00:12:09.231 --> 00:12:11.210 Cyrus, I don't think you're shy about jumping in. 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:13.620 Please don't be shy about jumping in at any time 00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:14.930 when you have a question. 00:12:14.930 --> 00:12:16.780 All right, this is the slide I talk about 00:12:16.780 --> 00:12:20.070 where we show the savings by program type 00:12:20.070 --> 00:12:23.820 and things are fairly consistent over the five years, 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:26.650 we do trend analysis over the last five years. 00:12:26.650 --> 00:12:29.590 And, but the big change is what I already talked about. 00:12:29.590 --> 00:12:33.530 We have that new kind of forest green bar, 00:12:33.530 --> 00:12:36.260 which is the upstream, midstream. 00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:38.900 Before that was kind of lumped into an other category. 00:12:38.900 --> 00:12:40.400 It wasn't that much. 00:12:40.400 --> 00:12:43.150 The utilities were already beginning to explore that more 00:12:43.150 --> 00:12:43.983 and do more. 00:12:43.983 --> 00:12:47.370 They did already have programs there, not all of them, 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:49.060 but about half, 00:12:49.060 --> 00:12:52.560 but that is something we really saw expand in 2020, 00:12:52.560 --> 00:12:54.023 partly because of the pandemic. 00:12:56.140 --> 00:12:59.080 Could, Laura, could you give an example 00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:02.747 or will you get into some examples of what that would be? 00:13:02.747 --> 00:13:04.250 Yeah, I'm happy to, 00:13:04.250 --> 00:13:06.360 or I am happy to put the utilities, 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.433 they both, both CenterPoint and Oncor 00:13:08.433 --> 00:13:09.920 have a Upstream program. 00:13:09.920 --> 00:13:13.443 Would you like to hear directly from them, Gary and Shea? 00:13:13.443 --> 00:13:14.540 (Laura laughing) 00:13:14.540 --> 00:13:15.820 Sure. 00:13:15.820 --> 00:13:18.070 We actually have an Upstream lighting program. 00:13:18.070 --> 00:13:21.870 We work with several big box retailers 00:13:21.870 --> 00:13:25.373 and provide point of sale discounts on Upstream Lighting. 00:13:27.090 --> 00:13:28.240 LED lights, excuse me. 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.270 And additionally, 00:13:29.270 --> 00:13:34.270 we offer a $50 off coupon on smart thermostats 00:13:35.330 --> 00:13:38.440 and that's, that's two of the programs we offer. 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:39.680 We're expanding it this year 00:13:39.680 --> 00:13:43.683 to a commercial Midstream program for commercial HPAC. 00:13:46.930 --> 00:13:48.520 We have very similar offerings too, Cyrus. 00:13:48.520 --> 00:13:50.440 We have that streamlining 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:52.243 and thermostat programs as well. 00:13:54.570 --> 00:13:58.620 And does the seller have to provide zip code information 00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:01.260 or anything just so you know that section of new territory? 00:14:01.260 --> 00:14:02.093 Yes. 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:05.153 Just don't want to, 00:14:05.153 --> 00:14:06.520 I don't want to help those Louisiana folks. 00:14:06.520 --> 00:14:07.801 Yeah. 00:14:07.801 --> 00:14:10.780 (laughing) 00:14:10.780 --> 00:14:12.891 All right, welcome. 00:14:12.891 --> 00:14:14.523 It's great to have you. 00:14:14.523 --> 00:14:15.356 Thank you. 00:14:15.356 --> 00:14:16.189 Okay. 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.450 This is like I said, I can't help, but get to the punchline. 00:14:23.450 --> 00:14:27.260 So you all already know that 2020 saw the largest savings, 00:14:27.260 --> 00:14:29.480 but it's just kind of represents here 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:33.040 in both the demand reductions and the energy savings, 00:14:33.040 --> 00:14:37.020 despite all the challenges, there were the highest savings. 00:14:37.020 --> 00:14:42.020 So a mix of things going on, all that hard work, certainly, 00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:46.090 you know, avoided costs probably helped out 00:14:46.090 --> 00:14:48.290 and all the things that could be done as well, 00:14:48.290 --> 00:14:49.823 but just noting that. 00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:58.760 And then this shows the cost effectiveness by utility. 00:14:59.170 --> 00:15:01.220 Getting to a little more detail 00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:05.460 that I mentioned we would show behind that 4.0 Statewide. 00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:10.020 That did range across the utilities from 3.3 to 5.0. 00:15:11.930 --> 00:15:16.400 I wouldn't read too much into that range so much. 00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:19.590 It's really just shows we, we want things over one, right? 00:15:19.590 --> 00:15:22.880 So it really just shows all of the programs 00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:24.960 are cost-effective. 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.480 There, the utilities have very unique territories, 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:28.800 different challenges. 00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:31.030 So they're reasons, you know, 00:15:31.030 --> 00:15:32.740 sometimes when you dig deeper 00:15:32.740 --> 00:15:35.160 or you're trying to do more new construction, 00:15:35.160 --> 00:15:37.030 you might see cost effectiveness go down, 00:15:37.030 --> 00:15:37.990 but that's not a bad thing. 00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:41.793 It just shows that they're doing more, so. 00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:44.853 Great to have you. 00:15:47.370 --> 00:15:48.203 All right. 00:15:49.060 --> 00:15:52.480 We're gonna do a pause for, it's great to have a, 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.730 I know some of the new members that came in, but not all. 00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:57.780 We're gonna do a pause for questions 00:15:57.780 --> 00:16:00.270 for the people on the phone, after the overview. 00:16:00.270 --> 00:16:02.770 So we'll get our three newcomers in person. 00:16:02.770 --> 00:16:04.530 And if there's anyone on the phone 00:16:04.530 --> 00:16:06.170 who has yet to introduce themselves, 00:16:06.170 --> 00:16:07.630 that would be a great time to, 00:16:07.630 --> 00:16:10.280 we did get going really right on the dot 00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:12.480 and at least here in Austin, it's raining 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.590 and Austin traffic is bad anyways. 00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:16.503 So, the rain probably didn't help. 00:16:18.500 --> 00:16:20.090 All right. 00:16:20.090 --> 00:16:24.836 This is a slide that we put together for the first time, 00:16:24.836 --> 00:16:27.740 a couple of years ago and so we update it. 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:30.180 We actually have four slides that show this. 00:16:30.180 --> 00:16:31.560 I just pull that one 00:16:31.560 --> 00:16:33.610 because I think the point is just so important 00:16:33.610 --> 00:16:37.280 to demonstrate to Cyrus's point about that. 00:16:37.280 --> 00:16:39.210 When you put in an energy efficiency measure, 00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:41.610 you just don't get the savings that year. 00:16:41.610 --> 00:16:44.880 You get them for how long that equipment is going to be on. 00:16:44.880 --> 00:16:49.720 So this is just one slide of showing the lifetime savings 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:53.550 from these programs, starting back the first year 00:16:53.550 --> 00:16:55.610 that the Statewide EM&V started was, 00:16:55.610 --> 00:16:58.990 it started in 2013 looking at program year 2012. 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:01.280 So that's as far back as we have data 00:17:02.327 --> 00:17:05.540 and you see benefits going out to 2048 now. 00:17:05.540 --> 00:17:07.390 We just update this slide every year. 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:10.903 So, it's not really changing all that much. 00:17:11.770 --> 00:17:14.570 Just HVAC, Building and Shell are a big driver 00:17:14.570 --> 00:17:17.780 of those savings that last over time. 00:17:17.780 --> 00:17:20.140 So just really an important part of the story. 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:25.030 And to be clear, your overall achievements 00:17:25.030 --> 00:17:27.850 you're only counting what was, 00:17:27.850 --> 00:17:30.235 what was paid for in that year. 00:17:30.235 --> 00:17:31.068 Right. 00:17:31.068 --> 00:17:33.236 So that, you know, the slides where we're showing, 00:17:33.236 --> 00:17:36.213 you know, the, you know, about 700 GWh lots. 00:17:37.656 --> 00:17:39.780 And, yeah, you know, our big, our big savings. 00:17:39.780 --> 00:17:42.670 Those are just the first year savings. Correct. 00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:44.280 Yeah. 00:17:44.280 --> 00:17:46.123 So we just show a different looks. 00:17:47.230 --> 00:17:48.900 That's why we thought this was an important part 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:50.820 of the story, Cyrus, so that people understood 00:17:50.820 --> 00:17:52.640 they're actually more savings than this, 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.063 but that's what the goals and everything are based on. 00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:01.940 All right. 00:18:01.940 --> 00:18:05.000 I am going to do a pause here 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.280 because those are kind of a high-level summary 00:18:07.280 --> 00:18:09.420 on the program's accomplishments. 00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:12.950 And now we're going to get into the EM&V effort. 00:18:12.950 --> 00:18:14.900 So if you guys don't mind, 00:18:14.900 --> 00:18:17.860 I'll pick on EM&V team members first. 00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:20.697 I did already introduce Joey, so. 00:18:20.697 --> 00:18:21.530 (Laura laughs) 00:18:21.530 --> 00:18:22.363 Hi, I'm Sadie Bronk. 00:18:22.363 --> 00:18:25.520 I'm with Energy Bees and we are working alongside Tetra Tech 00:18:25.520 --> 00:18:28.033 for some qualitative EM&V. 00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:31.220 Sorry. I'm Ashley Myers Black. 00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:32.557 I'm with her. 00:18:32.557 --> 00:18:33.435 (laughing) 00:18:33.435 --> 00:18:34.268 Same thing. 00:18:34.268 --> 00:18:35.600 Thank you. 00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:37.120 Hi everybody. I'm Leshawn Johnson. 00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:39.747 I'm the Program Implementation Manager at CenterPoint. 00:18:39.747 --> 00:18:40.580 Nice to meet you. 00:18:40.580 --> 00:18:42.340 It's so nice to meet you in person. 00:18:42.340 --> 00:18:43.620 Yes, we've met on the phone. 00:18:43.620 --> 00:18:45.370 So, welcome. 00:18:45.370 --> 00:18:47.406 We've got Shea though, by himself. 00:18:47.406 --> 00:18:49.390 (laughing) 00:18:49.390 --> 00:18:50.590 All right. 00:18:50.590 --> 00:18:52.730 Is there anybody on the phone 00:18:52.730 --> 00:18:55.760 who didn't get in the initial roll call 00:18:55.760 --> 00:18:57.803 that would like to introduce themselves? 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:01.900 All right. 00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:05.110 So we did take questions here in person 00:19:05.110 --> 00:19:07.660 as we were going on some of the accomplishments. 00:19:07.660 --> 00:19:10.490 Are there any questions from the phone 00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:12.163 on any of those accomplishments? 00:19:15.967 --> 00:19:17.450 Yeah, this is Krystal. 00:19:17.450 --> 00:19:18.410 I just thought I'd say, 00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:20.750 it's really difficult to hear 00:19:20.750 --> 00:19:22.140 when the speakers are speaking. 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:23.967 Is there a microphone by chance? 00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:31.923 There are, I just am not sure they're on. 00:19:33.450 --> 00:19:35.530 Okay. Thank you. 00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:37.760 Well, this would be, this would be the speaker phone. 00:19:37.760 --> 00:19:39.510 Let me, I don't know if that was near that. 00:19:39.510 --> 00:19:43.240 I will try and stay closer to the phone. 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:45.980 Krystal, you've seen me in person, I walk around, 00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:49.233 but I'll try not to walk around so much. 00:19:49.233 --> 00:19:50.635 How about we repeat the questions? 00:19:50.635 --> 00:19:53.508 Oh, you're coming in loud and clear, Laura. 00:19:53.508 --> 00:19:54.727 It's the guest speakers. 00:19:54.727 --> 00:19:55.976 Oh, thank you so much. 00:19:55.976 --> 00:19:56.846 Yes. Okay. 00:19:56.846 --> 00:19:58.570 So, what we'll do going forward and thank you, 00:19:58.570 --> 00:20:02.100 we should have thought to get some of these mic's hot, 00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:03.250 but they aren't. 00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:04.900 We will repeat the questions. 00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:06.680 So since you can hear me okay, 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:08.360 I will just repeat the question. 00:20:08.360 --> 00:20:12.223 So thank you so much, Krystal, for letting us know that. 00:20:15.635 --> 00:20:16.468 Thank you. 00:20:16.468 --> 00:20:18.656 Thank you, you got what she was saying? 00:20:18.656 --> 00:20:19.595 (Laura laughing) 00:20:19.595 --> 00:20:20.660 Thank you, Therese. 00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:21.493 All right. 00:20:21.493 --> 00:20:24.340 So moving on to the EM&V infrastructure. 00:20:24.340 --> 00:20:26.490 This is a slide people see every year, 00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:28.430 but because we have new people, 00:20:28.430 --> 00:20:33.140 just making sure everyone is aware of the infrastructure 00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:36.730 behind the EM&V and how that rolled out, 00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:39.914 that at first was in the Senate bill 00:20:39.914 --> 00:20:42.200 and then really how it would operate, 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.560 then was addressed in a rulemaking 00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:47.770 that led to other four year contracts 00:20:47.770 --> 00:20:49.840 that selected EM&V contractor. 00:20:49.840 --> 00:20:54.840 2020 is the first year in the third, four year contract. 00:20:56.776 --> 00:20:59.480 And there are a lot of things in the rule 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:01.120 that give us a lot of guidance 00:21:01.120 --> 00:21:04.470 as is also the case in lots of places in the rule. 00:21:04.470 --> 00:21:07.836 There are places where we kind of have to talk about it 00:21:07.836 --> 00:21:08.669 (Laura laughs) 00:21:08.669 --> 00:21:10.210 and figure out what's inconsistent 00:21:10.210 --> 00:21:12.583 and keeping with the rule in what we do. 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:16.033 All right. 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.113 Hi, it's great to have you. 00:21:20.113 --> 00:21:20.980 (Laura laughs) 00:21:20.980 --> 00:21:22.518 You're on next, so. 00:21:22.518 --> 00:21:24.530 (Laura laughs) 00:21:24.530 --> 00:21:26.513 Okay, so what do we do? 00:21:27.820 --> 00:21:29.850 It varies a little bit every year, 00:21:29.850 --> 00:21:32.760 since this was the first year of the four contract, 00:21:32.760 --> 00:21:34.610 four year contract, 00:21:34.610 --> 00:21:37.810 we did a little bit less than in other years. 00:21:37.810 --> 00:21:39.620 Cause we normally, like right now, 00:21:39.620 --> 00:21:43.090 2021 has been going on since June. 00:21:43.090 --> 00:21:44.240 In the first year of a contract 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.200 you can't get going until the next year. 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:47.790 So we're really rolling out in February. 00:21:47.790 --> 00:21:49.830 So we have a condensed timeline. 00:21:49.830 --> 00:21:52.530 So it's pretty impact heavy. 00:21:52.530 --> 00:21:54.810 So, what we do is for everything, 00:21:54.810 --> 00:21:58.350 we get all the tracking data and for every single program, 00:21:58.350 --> 00:22:00.200 every single plane savings, 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.640 we make sure that the EM&V team can verify that 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:05.720 with the program tracking data. 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:07.520 For residential deemed savings, 00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:11.830 we do a hundred percent making sure that they match the TRM. 00:22:11.830 --> 00:22:13.930 We cannot do that on the commercial side 00:22:13.930 --> 00:22:16.060 because they're more complex. 00:22:16.060 --> 00:22:19.490 All the calculations we need are not on the tracking system, 00:22:19.490 --> 00:22:21.110 they're in the savings calculator. 00:22:21.110 --> 00:22:25.710 So we have to sample and dive deeper on those. 00:22:25.710 --> 00:22:28.900 One of the things that I think will be very interesting 00:22:28.900 --> 00:22:31.090 to everyone from the new scope 00:22:31.090 --> 00:22:36.090 is the amount of meter data we're using. 00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:40.260 We have consumption analysis going on every single year. 00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:41.793 In this first year, 00:22:41.793 --> 00:22:44.843 we look at commercial lighting as the biggest contributor. 00:22:46.135 --> 00:22:47.870 This is probably not gonna surprise anyone, 00:22:47.870 --> 00:22:51.150 even trying to, you know, 00:22:51.150 --> 00:22:54.990 go back with the meter data and take building types 00:22:54.990 --> 00:22:58.150 that maybe were less effected by the pandemic. 00:22:58.150 --> 00:23:02.050 We weren't able to get to kind of normal business operations 00:23:02.050 --> 00:23:06.180 enough to really tease out the commercial lighting. 00:23:06.180 --> 00:23:09.210 Again, that is we're trying to, how good is the TRM doing? 00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:10.450 Do we need to revisit? 00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:13.320 Are there things we need to do to get the TRM better? 00:23:13.320 --> 00:23:15.780 So we will be expanding, 00:23:15.780 --> 00:23:19.360 adding data onto that commercial consumption analysis 00:23:19.360 --> 00:23:23.010 in 2021 to hopefully get some results 00:23:23.010 --> 00:23:23.900 on commercial lighting. 00:23:23.900 --> 00:23:25.820 So we can all look at it and figure out, 00:23:25.820 --> 00:23:27.630 hey, is the TRM doing a good job 00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:29.230 or are there some business types 00:23:30.795 --> 00:23:31.628 we need to collect a little more data on, 00:23:31.628 --> 00:23:33.003 those kinds of questions. 00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:37.153 All right. 00:23:39.350 --> 00:23:43.130 So through that impact evaluation piece, 00:23:43.130 --> 00:23:44.900 where we look at all the savings 00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:48.150 and we sample if we find things where we differ, 00:23:48.150 --> 00:23:50.290 we provide those results to the utilities 00:23:50.290 --> 00:23:51.740 and their contractors. 00:23:51.740 --> 00:23:53.180 We discuss them to date. 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:55.530 We've always reached agreement on, 00:23:55.530 --> 00:23:57.650 yes, here are some things that are a little off 00:23:57.650 --> 00:23:59.930 and where we need to make savings adjustments. 00:23:59.930 --> 00:24:01.940 Things can go up, things can go down. 00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:03.790 So this just kind of shows by utility 00:24:03.790 --> 00:24:07.590 where adjustments were made at the end of the day. 00:24:07.590 --> 00:24:09.260 If you work in other jurisdictions, 00:24:09.260 --> 00:24:11.830 you probably hear something called realization rates, 00:24:11.830 --> 00:24:14.810 which is where we compare evaluated savings 00:24:14.810 --> 00:24:16.220 to claim savings. 00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:18.070 We pretty much force those to a hundred percent 00:24:18.070 --> 00:24:19.020 here in Texas, 00:24:19.020 --> 00:24:22.230 because we worked through this collaborative agreement 00:24:22.230 --> 00:24:25.090 with the utilities to adjust anything 00:24:25.090 --> 00:24:26.933 that the EM&V team finds. 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.910 Laura? Like as a percentage, 00:24:30.910 --> 00:24:32.500 like if you look at that overall 00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:35.220 that's way less than one percent, right? 00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:36.490 Yeah, yeah, 00:24:36.490 --> 00:24:39.735 because it's just for the sampled projects. 00:24:39.735 --> 00:24:40.847 Oh, it's just for the sampled, okay. 00:24:40.847 --> 00:24:41.680 Right. 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:44.163 It's just the sampled projects that we do that for. 00:24:45.255 --> 00:24:48.010 And one of the reasons why we also only do that 00:24:48.010 --> 00:24:51.300 for the sampled projects is we try to really work 00:24:51.300 --> 00:24:55.000 and identify as where some of the recommendations come from. 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.474 Why are we off, so that we can put forward recommendations, 00:24:59.474 --> 00:25:01.830 so that hopefully the context is broader 00:25:01.830 --> 00:25:03.230 of kind of improving things, 00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:06.623 so we're not off going forward or closer, so. 00:25:13.050 --> 00:25:13.883 All right. 00:25:13.883 --> 00:25:16.930 So, at the end of the day, 00:25:16.930 --> 00:25:19.580 these are very successful programs and, 00:25:19.580 --> 00:25:22.190 but they're operating in very dynamic markets. 00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:23.920 So we just want to keep working together 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.440 to keep making the programs as good as possible. 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.740 So, you know, it is kind of our job too, 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:32.580 to look up there areas where we can offer opportunities 00:25:32.580 --> 00:25:33.900 for improvement. 00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:38.620 So from 2020, we do have 31 recommendations. 00:25:38.620 --> 00:25:41.273 They're all detailed in the report. 00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:44.280 And then if you don't want to go into all the details 00:25:44.280 --> 00:25:45.640 in the executive summary, 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:49.620 we put together a table that summarizes the recommendation 00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:51.160 and what we call action plan. 00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:55.730 So, before this meeting staff and myself 00:25:55.730 --> 00:25:58.000 meet with each utility individually, 00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.450 and we talk about the results, 00:25:59.450 --> 00:26:01.300 we talk about the recommendations 00:26:01.300 --> 00:26:03.700 and we agree on that action plan. 00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:06.540 So that shows how the utilities are gonna respond. 00:26:06.540 --> 00:26:11.540 And then I report on that in, so that'll be in 2022. 00:26:11.590 --> 00:26:15.270 So in the 2022 EM&V will report 00:26:15.270 --> 00:26:17.620 on how well the utilities responded 00:26:17.620 --> 00:26:19.163 to those recommendations. 00:26:20.750 --> 00:26:24.790 So, I'm just gonna highlight a couple here today 00:26:24.790 --> 00:26:25.730 and then move on 00:26:25.730 --> 00:26:28.303 because we have lots of great content this morning. 00:26:29.320 --> 00:26:31.270 So, on the commercial side, 00:26:31.270 --> 00:26:33.500 we have the first three bullets on custom, 00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:36.220 EM&V, reCommissioning, 00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:39.920 the utilities really are looking at doing more 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:41.950 serving buildings more comprehensively. 00:26:41.950 --> 00:26:44.220 So there are kind of some more questions 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:47.110 around some of these M&V approaches, 00:26:47.110 --> 00:26:50.900 particularly more challenges came up because of the pandemic 00:26:50.900 --> 00:26:53.730 and how do we get to normal operating conditions. 00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:57.960 So, quite a few things around those this year. 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:00.010 And then we did have some recommendations 00:27:00.010 --> 00:27:03.480 on the consumption analysis to help us strengthen that 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:04.660 on the commercial side. 00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:07.760 So we can really get at those results, 00:27:07.760 --> 00:27:09.943 hopefully this next program year. 00:27:13.210 --> 00:27:15.840 And then moving on to residential, 00:27:15.840 --> 00:27:18.760 we had a couple of things on the tracking system. 00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:21.060 It didn't affect savings overall, 00:27:21.060 --> 00:27:22.740 but just to keep an eye out 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:24.060 to make sure those deemed savings 00:27:24.060 --> 00:27:25.590 are done in line with the TRM. 00:27:25.590 --> 00:27:27.750 Some of them were clarifications. 00:27:27.750 --> 00:27:29.820 Since we talked about the smart thermostats, 00:27:29.820 --> 00:27:32.610 that is something we really seen expanded as a, 00:27:32.610 --> 00:27:36.420 it is an energy saving device. 00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:38.780 It is something that also can be tapped into 00:27:38.780 --> 00:27:40.423 for demand response. 00:27:41.347 --> 00:27:43.080 And we found things really in good shape 00:27:43.080 --> 00:27:44.560 for those smart thermostats. 00:27:44.560 --> 00:27:46.930 So, we were really pleased 00:27:46.930 --> 00:27:49.360 with how the utilities are implementing 00:27:49.360 --> 00:27:50.700 those smart thermostats 00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:54.790 and the information that they are collecting at that time. 00:27:54.790 --> 00:27:57.190 So I had alluded to earlier 00:27:57.190 --> 00:28:00.960 how we really needed to collaborate with the utilities 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.890 this year on this low income process improvement. 00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:07.350 And we had, TEPRI will be here to present. 00:28:07.350 --> 00:28:09.780 So, I don't want to steal any of their thunder 00:28:09.780 --> 00:28:12.240 because they're gonna give a great presentation. 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.330 But, to put a kind of high-level context, 00:28:16.330 --> 00:28:19.710 we had forms use to certify households 00:28:19.710 --> 00:28:23.860 coming into the low income and Hard2Reach programs annually 00:28:23.860 --> 00:28:26.560 that really hadn't been revised for over a decade. 00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:30.690 So, together we looked at let's, 00:28:30.690 --> 00:28:33.140 let's look at improving those forms 00:28:33.140 --> 00:28:35.350 with a couple objectives in mind, 00:28:35.350 --> 00:28:39.120 making sure the services go to the intended audience 00:28:39.120 --> 00:28:41.560 and how we do that in the most streamlined 00:28:41.560 --> 00:28:44.080 and efficient manner as possible 00:28:44.080 --> 00:28:47.220 while also hopefully getting the utilities 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:51.270 and their contractors more engagement and outreach tools, 00:28:51.270 --> 00:28:53.920 as well as part of that process. 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:56.060 We did a lot of brainstorming together. 00:28:56.060 --> 00:28:57.960 We came up with a lot of good ideas. 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.100 I think we were really excited about. 00:29:00.100 --> 00:29:03.830 And then Oncor brought TEPRI in who has deep knowledge 00:29:03.830 --> 00:29:07.170 in this area who kind of furthered the study 00:29:07.170 --> 00:29:09.260 and brought back some other recommendations, 00:29:09.260 --> 00:29:11.880 which were all used to revise these forms. 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.740 They will be going out to EEIP in November. 00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:19.520 They're currently with the utilities for review. 00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:20.850 We gave that a month long 00:29:20.850 --> 00:29:23.370 so the utilities could also get feedback 00:29:23.370 --> 00:29:26.120 directly from contractors working in the field, 00:29:26.120 --> 00:29:29.620 people actually out there who would be using these. 00:29:29.620 --> 00:29:32.670 So, they will be going out for EEIP review, 00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:36.360 but they're a bit behind the TRM timeline, 00:29:36.360 --> 00:29:39.623 which we'll talk about later this afternoon. 00:29:41.450 --> 00:29:42.930 (phone beeps) 00:29:42.930 --> 00:29:45.150 All right, load management. 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:49.590 A couple of takeaways from load management in 2020, 00:29:49.590 --> 00:29:52.360 and a couple of recommendations we made there. 00:29:52.360 --> 00:29:55.350 It was the highest number of participants 00:29:55.350 --> 00:29:58.020 we had ever seen enrolled. 00:29:58.020 --> 00:29:59.020 At the same time, 00:29:59.020 --> 00:30:04.020 we saw more discrepancy between test event results 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:06.780 and what was contracted. 00:30:06.780 --> 00:30:08.020 And there were reasons for that. 00:30:08.020 --> 00:30:11.780 There were some decisions not to curtail certain customers, 00:30:11.780 --> 00:30:15.800 such as hospitals given the challenges of the pandemic, 00:30:15.800 --> 00:30:17.610 but we did recommend that the utilities 00:30:17.610 --> 00:30:19.800 really do they're required to do an annual test events 00:30:19.800 --> 00:30:24.800 so that they use those to refine their estimates 00:30:24.860 --> 00:30:26.210 of the load management. 00:30:26.210 --> 00:30:27.730 And also coming out of there 00:30:27.730 --> 00:30:31.450 is making sure that the utility load management programs 00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:35.860 do not include critical load customers 00:30:35.860 --> 00:30:40.050 with one exception as a possibility, if it is, 00:30:40.050 --> 00:30:41.790 if they do have backup generation 00:30:41.790 --> 00:30:44.660 and they still think that they can perform, 00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:46.460 we kind of heard mixed things from some hospitals, 00:30:46.460 --> 00:30:47.780 yes, that's really important, 00:30:47.780 --> 00:30:49.890 and they can go to backup, some hospitals, 00:30:49.890 --> 00:30:52.840 it's not worth the flickering lights if they're in surgery. 00:30:53.869 --> 00:30:56.850 So kind of, that is an option for critical load customers, 00:30:56.850 --> 00:30:58.320 if they have backup generation 00:30:58.320 --> 00:31:00.283 and feel they can safely participate. 00:31:01.820 --> 00:31:04.440 So note that was a change in the TRM this year, 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.670 making that clearly defined for 2022. 00:31:10.670 --> 00:31:13.530 All right. And then on the portfolio recommendations, 00:31:13.530 --> 00:31:16.410 a couple of things we wanted to note here 00:31:16.410 --> 00:31:18.330 is we do have an ETRM, 00:31:20.310 --> 00:31:22.880 an Electric Technical Reference Manual 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:24.530 that one of the utilities has. 00:31:24.530 --> 00:31:26.480 So we are trying to work closely with them 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:28.980 to support that streamlined process 00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:30.600 in the savings calculation 00:31:30.600 --> 00:31:33.473 and what kind of program documentation you need. 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:37.230 Solar PV that uses a DOE tool. 00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:39.980 PV Watts is another good example. 00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:43.670 We just happen to have a deep dive into Solar PV in 2020 00:31:43.670 --> 00:31:47.503 of calculations that are using an API. 00:31:49.190 --> 00:31:50.460 It's an electronic interface. 00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:52.420 I apologize, I can't define that. 00:31:52.420 --> 00:31:54.858 Anyone want to find an acronym for me? 00:31:54.858 --> 00:31:57.150 (laughing) 00:31:57.150 --> 00:31:59.430 It rolls off of Mark Bergen's tongue, 00:31:59.430 --> 00:32:00.880 but it's the same thing 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.880 where there's less paperwork generated, right? 00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:05.970 So, we're trying to really work, stay up, 00:32:05.970 --> 00:32:08.160 this is the way the industry is going. 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.440 So working with the utilities as they roll these things out 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.950 to support that we can both be streamlined and transparent. 00:32:15.950 --> 00:32:19.340 So kind of getting those tool goals. 00:32:19.340 --> 00:32:22.000 And then Energy Bees who is based here in Austin 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.697 and is new on this four year contract I- 00:32:25.697 --> 00:32:26.806 (indistinct talking on speaker phone) 00:32:26.806 --> 00:32:30.007 Oh, yes? Was there a question on the phone? 00:32:30.007 --> 00:32:31.913 No, I think just background. 00:32:31.913 --> 00:32:32.920 (indistinct talking on speaker phone) 00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:36.443 Oh, could we, do you mind going on mute? 00:32:37.590 --> 00:32:39.597 Unless there's a question. 00:32:42.810 --> 00:32:45.670 Gina, could you, could you mute, go back to mute all? 00:32:45.670 --> 00:32:47.453 We're getting some feedback here. 00:32:49.110 --> 00:32:52.660 So Energy Bees, again, thank you to all the utilities. 00:32:52.660 --> 00:32:55.460 All the utilities took time out to talk to Energy Bees 00:32:55.460 --> 00:32:58.660 to talk about Therese and I did the kind of initial calls 00:32:58.660 --> 00:33:02.690 on how they were responding to COVID-19. 00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:05.880 We talked about some of the ways to do remote QAQC, 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.320 and it came up in those calls. 00:33:07.320 --> 00:33:08.480 Here would be great to see, 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.200 did we learn anything that could be a best practice 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:12.240 going forward. 00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:14.530 So Energy Bees talked to all the utilities 00:33:14.530 --> 00:33:17.410 and put together a very nice piece 00:33:17.410 --> 00:33:19.930 that is in volume one of the report, 00:33:19.930 --> 00:33:23.520 summarized in the executive summary of some takeaways. 00:33:23.520 --> 00:33:28.030 And one of the big ones is at a hybrid QAQC 00:33:28.030 --> 00:33:31.310 is probably appropriate going forward. 00:33:31.310 --> 00:33:33.580 A lot of the utilities and contractors 00:33:33.580 --> 00:33:37.210 really developed some good virtual tools 00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:39.620 that they were able to use successfully, 00:33:39.620 --> 00:33:40.930 but there were also, 00:33:40.930 --> 00:33:44.060 there are some times where you really do need to go onsite. 00:33:44.060 --> 00:33:48.620 So there are opportunities to kind of do a hybrid onsite, 00:33:48.620 --> 00:33:50.620 virtual going forward. 00:33:50.620 --> 00:33:55.620 And another recommendation they had at the time 00:33:56.172 --> 00:33:59.490 that they did the interviews COVID was very, very low. 00:33:59.490 --> 00:34:01.320 And they just were thinking about, 00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:05.050 we get some severe weather here in Texas, right? 00:34:05.050 --> 00:34:06.360 You know, Hey, this is really great 00:34:06.360 --> 00:34:08.800 to bring into contingency planning. 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:11.640 So they also put forth that recommendation. 00:34:11.640 --> 00:34:15.940 Of course, after they did that we also saw a spike, 00:34:15.940 --> 00:34:18.380 which gratefully, it looks like we're coming off of now, 00:34:18.380 --> 00:34:22.477 but that was kind of a really apropos at the time 00:34:22.477 --> 00:34:23.410 we were talking to the utilities 00:34:23.410 --> 00:34:26.090 of the value of contingency planning for that kind of thing, 00:34:26.090 --> 00:34:27.750 as well as severe weather events. 00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:30.270 So, there's some really good information 00:34:30.270 --> 00:34:32.820 on what the utilities did and some best practices 00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:35.573 that can go forward on the remote QAQC. 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:39.243 All right. 00:34:42.870 --> 00:34:45.186 I am almost at time, I'm gonna- 00:34:45.186 --> 00:34:47.456 Yes, oh, I'm sorry, Dana, you were just, 00:34:47.456 --> 00:34:48.945 I'm just adjusting sorry. 00:34:48.945 --> 00:34:49.778 (laughing) 00:34:49.778 --> 00:34:50.611 Out loud there. 00:34:50.611 --> 00:34:51.444 (laughing) 00:34:51.444 --> 00:34:53.640 It's a mess out there right now. 00:34:53.640 --> 00:34:55.370 For those on the phone, 00:34:55.370 --> 00:35:00.370 we are now going onto the 2021 EM&V overview. 00:35:01.990 --> 00:35:06.160 We're gonna be wrapped up here at 10:15 on that. 00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:07.710 And then turn it over to TEPRI. 00:35:07.710 --> 00:35:10.280 Does anyone have questions on the phone, 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.003 on what was done in 2020 before we move on? 00:35:17.830 --> 00:35:18.663 All right. 00:35:21.600 --> 00:35:23.470 So again, we do all the bare, 00:35:23.470 --> 00:35:26.090 all the things we talked about that we do every year, 00:35:26.090 --> 00:35:28.670 the tracking system verification of all the savings, 00:35:28.670 --> 00:35:31.800 residential deemed, sampling of commercial, 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.048 but we also pick out programs 00:35:34.048 --> 00:35:35.720 we're gonna keep a high priority on. 00:35:35.720 --> 00:35:38.670 So I'm really gonna talk about those things. 00:35:38.670 --> 00:35:43.670 A couple of things that we are going to do this year 00:35:44.420 --> 00:35:47.340 is everybody probably remembers 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:49.920 the big TRM updates last year, 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.880 that came into effect in 2021 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.090 on some of the envelope measures. 00:35:55.090 --> 00:35:58.770 In particularly we had some difficulties 00:35:58.770 --> 00:36:01.700 around air infiltration where the, 00:36:01.700 --> 00:36:05.700 there was normally distributed around zero overall, 00:36:05.700 --> 00:36:08.610 but in Hard2Reach, we saw some savings. 00:36:08.610 --> 00:36:11.980 So we really decided let's take a step back 00:36:11.980 --> 00:36:14.910 and focus on Hard2Reach and the implementation, 00:36:14.910 --> 00:36:17.960 successful implementation of air infiltration 00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:19.660 for the Hard2Reach sector. 00:36:19.660 --> 00:36:21.310 And then hopefully we start seeing results 00:36:21.310 --> 00:36:23.420 and we can talk about expanding it back out. 00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:26.830 So, that will be in this next scope 00:36:26.830 --> 00:36:31.207 is when we do our data requests for all of 2021 00:36:32.420 --> 00:36:33.990 in the new year, 00:36:33.990 --> 00:36:38.330 we'll also be getting 24 months of meter data 00:36:38.330 --> 00:36:39.163 for all of those, 00:36:39.163 --> 00:36:43.550 get back up air infiltration in the Hard2Reach, 00:36:43.550 --> 00:36:46.470 in the hopes that we can see some savings there. 00:36:46.470 --> 00:36:48.450 We already had a huge, 00:36:48.450 --> 00:36:51.430 we also had a big change in ceiling insulation 00:36:51.430 --> 00:36:55.738 within our five baseline coming into effect. 00:36:55.738 --> 00:36:57.650 Oncor had already implemented that, 00:36:57.650 --> 00:37:00.660 and we were already doing, able to do analysis on that 00:37:00.660 --> 00:37:04.903 and saw that that really did bring the TRM savings in mind. 00:37:05.850 --> 00:37:08.170 But we also got some really valuable feedback 00:37:08.170 --> 00:37:10.590 from the utilities and contractors 00:37:10.590 --> 00:37:14.100 that there are those that are below. 00:37:14.100 --> 00:37:17.070 So we really needed to make sure those homes 00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:19.620 weren't getting missed without some incentives. 00:37:19.620 --> 00:37:22.850 So we kind of have a, that was based on a midpoint. 00:37:22.850 --> 00:37:26.430 We have slightly higher savings of a true RFI now, 00:37:26.430 --> 00:37:30.570 for those that have very low levels of insulation, 00:37:30.570 --> 00:37:32.500 we won't, since that's new, 00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:36.100 we won't really know how that worked this year. 00:37:36.100 --> 00:37:38.270 So we'll have to look at that later. 00:37:38.270 --> 00:37:42.090 So really the focus is gonna be on air infiltration 00:37:42.090 --> 00:37:43.110 this year. 00:37:43.110 --> 00:37:44.510 But we'll be looking at the other things. 00:37:44.510 --> 00:37:46.120 We are back on site. 00:37:46.120 --> 00:37:48.465 Again, Joey is here. 00:37:48.465 --> 00:37:52.900 Also based here in Austin and they have been onsite 00:37:52.900 --> 00:37:55.020 and things have been going very well. 00:37:55.020 --> 00:37:58.340 You know, we went over protocols 00:37:58.340 --> 00:38:02.220 and things that we have not had any difficulties 00:38:02.220 --> 00:38:03.240 at this time. 00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:06.410 We will be communicating to the utilities if we do, 00:38:06.410 --> 00:38:09.610 of course, run into any customer concerns 00:38:09.610 --> 00:38:10.923 with our onsite work. 00:38:15.038 --> 00:38:18.040 So, that's why we have the high priorities. 00:38:18.040 --> 00:38:21.270 We have the residential programs continuing 00:38:21.270 --> 00:38:23.170 given the fact that we will be doing that 00:38:23.170 --> 00:38:26.470 consumption analysis for the air infiltration. 00:38:26.470 --> 00:38:30.203 And then commercial programs always stay fairly high, 00:38:31.090 --> 00:38:32.980 but we will hope, you know, 00:38:32.980 --> 00:38:36.050 be continuing that consumption analysis as well. 00:38:36.050 --> 00:38:39.940 And then on medium load management never falls below medium. 00:38:39.940 --> 00:38:43.580 We always do a census review of interval meter data 00:38:43.580 --> 00:38:45.880 for all the participants. 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.510 But small business was low in 2020, 00:38:49.510 --> 00:38:52.240 cause we had identified several recommendations 00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:53.470 that were ongoing. 00:38:53.470 --> 00:38:57.023 It is coming back into medium priority for 2021. 00:38:59.750 --> 00:39:01.620 And I believe that should be at 00:39:01.620 --> 00:39:03.760 other than technical assistance. 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:05.820 And that, this is just something really important 00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:07.453 we wanted to point out. 00:39:08.580 --> 00:39:10.720 When the Commission did the RFP, 00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:13.850 they included this task 40, that was kind of a catchall. 00:39:13.850 --> 00:39:16.840 And it became very clear as we were all working together. 00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:19.730 It was really great to put technical assistance in there 00:39:19.730 --> 00:39:23.380 so that we can work hand in hand with utilities 00:39:23.380 --> 00:39:26.650 when we have new measures, new types of projects, custom, 00:39:26.650 --> 00:39:30.600 any questions so that we can all feel more confident 00:39:30.600 --> 00:39:33.400 in the savings from these programs. 00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:35.610 So with that, I'm gonna turn it, 00:39:35.610 --> 00:39:37.583 I'm gonna pull up TEPRI's presentation. 00:39:40.820 --> 00:39:42.280 And I will let you introduce yourself. 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:43.878 It's so great to have you. 00:39:43.878 --> 00:39:44.711 Thank you. 00:39:44.711 --> 00:39:45.544 Here is a clicker that does work well. 00:39:45.544 --> 00:39:47.133 Okay. Thank you. 00:39:50.909 --> 00:39:52.803 Do I need to wait for you to switch it or is it? 00:39:54.509 --> 00:39:56.320 You know, I'm just pulling up your presentation 00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.160 and then we should be good. 00:39:58.160 --> 00:39:59.250 Hi everyone. 00:39:59.250 --> 00:40:00.083 Hello. 00:40:06.953 --> 00:40:11.953 Well. 00:40:12.314 --> 00:40:14.731 (man laughs) 00:40:17.814 --> 00:40:20.460 (indistinct talking) 00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:22.263 Let me see. 00:40:26.140 --> 00:40:27.940 So your presentation is a PDF, 00:40:27.940 --> 00:40:29.180 so I'm just trying to figure out 00:40:29.180 --> 00:40:32.310 how to get it to show that on PowerPoint. 00:40:32.310 --> 00:40:34.163 Maybe if I take everything else off. 00:40:34.163 --> 00:40:35.980 Oh, I'm sorry- 00:40:35.980 --> 00:40:37.057 There we go. There we go. 00:40:37.057 --> 00:40:37.990 I just had to get rid of everything else. 00:40:37.990 --> 00:40:40.010 It must have a order that it... 00:40:40.010 --> 00:40:41.275 Okay, let's see. 00:40:41.275 --> 00:40:42.610 Make sure the clicker will click. 00:40:42.610 --> 00:40:45.510 It looks like it will. Is there a presentation mode? 00:40:45.510 --> 00:40:46.343 Do you think? 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:52.323 Fit to page, maybe. 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:56.313 That's closer. 00:40:56.313 --> 00:40:58.164 Does that, can you guys see that okay? 00:40:58.164 --> 00:40:58.997 (audience members talking over each other) 00:40:58.997 --> 00:40:59.830 Okay. 00:40:59.830 --> 00:41:01.263 And on the phone, can they see this as well? 00:41:01.263 --> 00:41:03.896 So they have the slides. 00:41:03.896 --> 00:41:04.729 Okay. 00:41:04.729 --> 00:41:06.940 The person advancing them are very familiar 00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:07.970 with my slides. 00:41:07.970 --> 00:41:10.085 It might be helpful if you- 00:41:10.085 --> 00:41:10.918 Just say next slide. 00:41:10.918 --> 00:41:11.751 Yeah. 00:41:11.751 --> 00:41:12.584 (women laugh) 00:41:12.584 --> 00:41:14.210 Okay. I'm gonna try to pull this off. 00:41:14.210 --> 00:41:16.020 Okay, so, hello everybody. 00:41:16.020 --> 00:41:17.620 My name is Dana Harmon. 00:41:17.620 --> 00:41:19.050 I'm the Executive Director 00:41:19.050 --> 00:41:22.490 of the Texas Energy Poverty Research Institute. 00:41:22.490 --> 00:41:26.460 It's certainly a pleasure to be with you all here today. 00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:29.720 For those of you who attended the March meeting, 00:41:29.720 --> 00:41:31.061 I believe it was March. 00:41:31.061 --> 00:41:31.987 It got moved to March. 00:41:31.987 --> 00:41:33.630 It was February. It got moved to March. 00:41:33.630 --> 00:41:34.720 We talked about this study 00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:37.110 that we conducted a little bit at that point. 00:41:37.110 --> 00:41:40.223 And now we're here to follow up with the results. 00:41:41.170 --> 00:41:43.520 I wanted to just take a moment to acknowledge 00:41:43.520 --> 00:41:45.040 my colleague Jackie Moss, 00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:46.940 who unfortunately wasn't able to be here 00:41:46.940 --> 00:41:47.780 to present this work. 00:41:47.780 --> 00:41:50.210 But she is the lead author on the study 00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:51.840 and has really done a great job 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.830 and worked a lot with Oncor and with Tetra Tech, 00:41:54.830 --> 00:41:57.750 and really deserves the credit for this work. 00:41:57.750 --> 00:41:58.960 She's given me a lot of notes. 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:00.710 And so I'm gonna do my best, 00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:02.410 but if there are questions that I can't answer, 00:42:02.410 --> 00:42:04.893 I'll, may have to defer to Jackie. 00:42:06.660 --> 00:42:09.630 So, for those of you who may not be familiar with, 00:42:09.630 --> 00:42:13.220 with TEPRI or weren't there for the March meeting, 00:42:13.220 --> 00:42:16.610 we are a 501C3 nonprofit research institute 00:42:16.610 --> 00:42:19.860 based here in Austin, serving the state of Texas. 00:42:19.860 --> 00:42:22.920 So we work with, with utilities, 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:24.660 with affordable housing providers, 00:42:24.660 --> 00:42:26.870 with social service organizations, 00:42:26.870 --> 00:42:28.890 both in the competitive market 00:42:28.890 --> 00:42:31.250 and municipally owned utility areas 00:42:31.250 --> 00:42:35.220 and co-op areas 00:42:35.220 --> 00:42:38.350 with a mission to inspire lasting energy solutions 00:42:38.350 --> 00:42:40.530 for underserved communities across the state. 00:42:40.530 --> 00:42:42.560 So we do a lot of work in energy efficiency, 00:42:42.560 --> 00:42:44.840 residential energy efficiency, of course, 00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:46.990 but then also we do a good amount of work 00:42:46.990 --> 00:42:49.020 with regard to access to solar, 00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:51.863 utility assistance programs and those sorts of things. 00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:56.710 Our work has four kind of key pillars. 00:42:56.710 --> 00:42:59.270 Really, we work in research evaluation 00:42:59.270 --> 00:43:01.500 is kind of our bread and butter. 00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:04.590 We've noticed that with the proliferation of datasets 00:43:04.590 --> 00:43:06.785 and so much data out there, 00:43:06.785 --> 00:43:09.000 it's very helpful to offer decision-making tools 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.130 that can help utilities, policymakers 00:43:11.130 --> 00:43:13.970 and others advance their program design. 00:43:13.970 --> 00:43:17.210 We host a series of stakeholder forums, 00:43:17.210 --> 00:43:19.190 convening stakeholders of different types 00:43:19.190 --> 00:43:20.790 on different topic areas. 00:43:20.790 --> 00:43:21.623 And then of course, 00:43:21.623 --> 00:43:24.020 outreach and education directly within the community 00:43:24.020 --> 00:43:25.990 and with industry members. 00:43:25.990 --> 00:43:27.803 So that's a little bit about us. 00:43:28.770 --> 00:43:31.530 So next I'll take it to the study. 00:43:31.530 --> 00:43:34.590 This is a kind of a summarized version 00:43:34.590 --> 00:43:36.400 of the presentation that, 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:38.770 the full presentation that we've given. 00:43:38.770 --> 00:43:42.830 This study was conducted from January to May of this year 00:43:44.494 --> 00:43:46.198 and Commissioned by Oncor 00:43:46.198 --> 00:43:47.620 to develop a set of recommendations, 00:43:47.620 --> 00:43:49.670 to provide assurance that the low-income 00:43:49.670 --> 00:43:52.380 and Hard2Reach energy efficiency programs 00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:56.120 are reaching the population they're intended to serve. 00:43:56.120 --> 00:43:59.223 I think that along the lines was collectively, 00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:02.807 there was collective alignment on that mission 00:44:02.807 --> 00:44:04.570 throughout the whole process. 00:44:04.570 --> 00:44:06.380 We thought it was very important to make sure 00:44:06.380 --> 00:44:09.500 that we're avoiding instituting any additional barriers 00:44:09.500 --> 00:44:10.760 to program participation. 00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:11.880 So we didn't want to make it harder 00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.200 for people to participate. 00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:16.430 We've done a decent amount of research at TEPRI 00:44:16.430 --> 00:44:18.360 showing there's, you know, 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:21.420 already enough barriers in place for program participation 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:22.980 and awareness. 00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:25.240 And then we had the goal of operating 00:44:25.240 --> 00:44:27.380 within the existing regulatory framework. 00:44:27.380 --> 00:44:31.430 So new rule change, new policy changes required. 00:44:31.430 --> 00:44:35.790 And so this time today is really us presenting the findings 00:44:35.790 --> 00:44:37.853 and the analysis from that research. 00:44:41.130 --> 00:44:42.650 Okay. For those on the phone, 00:44:42.650 --> 00:44:45.010 I'm on a background information slide, 00:44:45.010 --> 00:44:47.025 which I think is slide five. 00:44:47.025 --> 00:44:47.858 (Dana chuckles) 00:44:47.858 --> 00:44:51.010 So, I will touch briefly on just kind of the background 00:44:51.010 --> 00:44:52.690 of the study. 00:44:52.690 --> 00:44:54.080 You all are probably familiar, 00:44:54.080 --> 00:44:57.690 but Texas utilities provide energy efficiency services 00:44:57.690 --> 00:44:59.060 to low income customers 00:44:59.060 --> 00:45:01.357 through a combination of the Hard2Reach 00:45:01.357 --> 00:45:02.720 and low-income programs 00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:06.360 as specified by the Texas Administrative Code. 00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:08.430 So ERCOT utilities, such as Oncor 00:45:08.430 --> 00:45:10.530 are required to spend no less than 10% 00:45:10.530 --> 00:45:12.800 of each program years energy efficiency budget 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.490 on targeted low income energy efficiency programs. 00:45:16.490 --> 00:45:18.640 That program follows similar guidelines 00:45:18.640 --> 00:45:21.660 to the Federal Weatherization Assistance Program 00:45:21.660 --> 00:45:23.590 and program income verification 00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:25.640 and targeted low income programs 00:45:25.640 --> 00:45:26.950 is considered sufficient 00:45:26.950 --> 00:45:30.410 and not being addressed by this specific study. 00:45:30.410 --> 00:45:32.460 But in addition to the targeted Low Income 00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:34.230 Energy Efficiency Program, 00:45:34.230 --> 00:45:36.880 all regulated Texas electric utilities 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:40.106 are required to achieve no less than 5% 00:45:40.106 --> 00:45:41.040 of total demand reduction 00:45:41.040 --> 00:45:43.900 through serving Hard2Reach customers. 00:45:43.900 --> 00:45:47.900 And so that is really where we focus this study. 00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:48.733 As Laura mentioned, 00:45:48.733 --> 00:45:51.670 the utility eligibility certification forms 00:45:51.670 --> 00:45:53.710 are maintained by the PUC. 00:45:53.710 --> 00:45:56.383 There's a single family form and a multifamily form, 00:45:57.614 --> 00:46:00.890 and both include a way to qualify for the programs 00:46:00.890 --> 00:46:02.990 through other low-income programs and services, 00:46:02.990 --> 00:46:05.410 which is referred to as category one, 00:46:05.410 --> 00:46:07.860 as well as through self-reported income, 00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:09.093 which is category two. 00:46:10.550 --> 00:46:12.410 This study addresses alternatives 00:46:12.410 --> 00:46:14.280 to that self-certification method 00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.533 for the Hard2Reach programs. 00:46:17.570 --> 00:46:18.810 And although, 00:46:18.810 --> 00:46:20.720 although the programs are implemented differently, 00:46:20.720 --> 00:46:23.110 both do use the federal poverty, 00:46:23.110 --> 00:46:25.370 200% of the federal poverty line or FPL 00:46:25.370 --> 00:46:27.723 as the income qualification for both programs. 00:46:30.757 --> 00:46:34.280 So next I'll go into a little bit of the research questions. 00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:36.600 As a research Institute kind of our, 00:46:36.600 --> 00:46:39.730 our normal method is to clearly identify research questions 00:46:39.730 --> 00:46:40.920 that we're looking to answer 00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.230 at the beginning of our studies. 00:46:43.230 --> 00:46:45.040 So as Commissioned by Oncor, 00:46:45.040 --> 00:46:48.410 this study was designed to explore certification options 00:46:48.410 --> 00:46:50.370 with the following questions. 00:46:50.370 --> 00:46:51.480 What are the advantages 00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.840 and disadvantages of different certification methods? 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:57.160 Since there was strong interests with, 00:46:57.160 --> 00:46:58.520 really from all whom we spoke 00:46:58.520 --> 00:47:01.320 in geography based eligibility. 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.970 We wanted to understand how effective is that method 00:47:03.970 --> 00:47:05.850 in identifying low-income households 00:47:05.850 --> 00:47:09.070 across Oncor service areas, specifically. 00:47:09.070 --> 00:47:11.050 We wanted to know how many low income people 00:47:11.050 --> 00:47:13.820 would be captured by a geo-eligibility model. 00:47:13.820 --> 00:47:16.410 And I'll go into geo-eligibility a bit more in detail 00:47:16.410 --> 00:47:17.610 in a few minutes. 00:47:17.610 --> 00:47:18.980 And we also wanted to understand 00:47:18.980 --> 00:47:21.410 how many people might fall outside of those areas, 00:47:21.410 --> 00:47:24.150 if we use strictly geo-eligibility. 00:47:24.150 --> 00:47:26.650 We also wanted to explore what other methods 00:47:26.650 --> 00:47:29.210 were available and achievable 00:47:29.210 --> 00:47:32.310 to efficiently qualify eligible households, 00:47:32.310 --> 00:47:36.363 again, without setting up institutional barriers as well. 00:47:38.590 --> 00:47:42.690 So, we followed our standard research process 00:47:42.690 --> 00:47:45.773 of discovery analysis and developing recommendations. 00:47:46.773 --> 00:47:48.550 So it really, that was kind of the three phases 00:47:48.550 --> 00:47:50.620 with which we conducted this work. 00:47:50.620 --> 00:47:51.870 During the discovery phase, 00:47:51.870 --> 00:47:54.310 we gathered and synthesized information 00:47:54.310 --> 00:47:57.920 about existing rules, procedures, programs, 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:00.010 we interviewed several utility stakeholders, 00:48:00.010 --> 00:48:02.800 other implementers, and other stakeholders, 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:05.660 and really try to tease out knowledge gaps 00:48:05.660 --> 00:48:09.343 that would serve as the foundation for subsequent phases. 00:48:10.620 --> 00:48:12.090 During the analysis phase, 00:48:12.090 --> 00:48:15.770 then we evaluated the materials that we collected 00:48:15.770 --> 00:48:17.820 and the opportunities that we identified 00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:19.400 in the discovery phase. 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.500 We collected insights from other geo-eligibility programs 00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:24.160 across the country. 00:48:24.160 --> 00:48:25.310 We gathered data sources 00:48:25.310 --> 00:48:28.250 and compared methods of geo-eligibility. 00:48:28.250 --> 00:48:30.430 And we also continue to collect insights 00:48:30.430 --> 00:48:32.560 from across the state and across, 00:48:32.560 --> 00:48:34.800 really from a national perspective, 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:37.640 reaching out to partners across the Southeast 00:48:37.640 --> 00:48:40.790 who may be facing similar challenges 00:48:40.790 --> 00:48:42.717 with energy efficiency programs. 00:48:42.717 --> 00:48:45.480 And so this, this report is a high-level summary 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.133 of those recommendations. 00:48:48.640 --> 00:48:50.010 Okay, for those on the phone. 00:48:50.010 --> 00:48:52.803 Now I'm on the theme slide, which is slide eight. 00:48:54.426 --> 00:48:56.100 So there are a couple of key themes 00:48:56.100 --> 00:48:58.480 that really emerged from this work 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:00.230 that we wanted to highlight 00:49:00.230 --> 00:49:02.630 from the stakeholder interviews. 00:49:02.630 --> 00:49:05.530 Firstly, there was consensus among the people 00:49:05.530 --> 00:49:07.660 with whom we spoke that, 00:49:07.660 --> 00:49:10.083 and this is within and outside of Texas, 00:49:10.970 --> 00:49:13.770 that any barriers that we introduced to eligibility 00:49:13.770 --> 00:49:17.253 is likely to create more problems than we want to solve. 00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:21.380 If it, it's already hard to serve these households 00:49:21.380 --> 00:49:22.880 and we wanted to make sure 00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:24.810 that we weren't putting up additional barriers 00:49:24.810 --> 00:49:29.040 to program awareness or trust or language differences 00:49:29.040 --> 00:49:30.073 or home ownership. 00:49:30.950 --> 00:49:32.910 There was also a reluctance 00:49:32.910 --> 00:49:35.810 from really all the parties that we spoke with, 00:49:35.810 --> 00:49:37.730 utilities and implementers alike, 00:49:37.730 --> 00:49:39.210 to assume responsibility 00:49:39.210 --> 00:49:42.033 for handling personal identifying information. 00:49:42.900 --> 00:49:46.050 If asked to provide documentation of household income 00:49:46.050 --> 00:49:48.223 with tax records or pay stubs, 00:49:49.060 --> 00:49:50.870 a customer may either knowingly 00:49:50.870 --> 00:49:53.360 or inadvertently provide incomplete 00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:55.360 or inaccurate information. 00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:58.140 And we at TEPRI agree that neither contractors 00:49:58.140 --> 00:50:02.320 nor implementers nor utilities should be responsible 00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.430 or accountable for verifying the accuracy 00:50:04.430 --> 00:50:05.470 of that information. 00:50:05.470 --> 00:50:07.770 So we wanted to look for other, other options. 00:50:10.230 --> 00:50:12.660 So that comes to our primary recommendations 00:50:12.660 --> 00:50:13.713 for alternatives. 00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:17.090 So as time allows, we can go into details, 00:50:17.090 --> 00:50:18.670 more details on each of these. 00:50:18.670 --> 00:50:21.270 But first primary recommendation 00:50:21.270 --> 00:50:24.530 is to institute a geo-eligibility process. 00:50:24.530 --> 00:50:28.780 And so that is the process by using an address to look up, 00:50:28.780 --> 00:50:31.350 to verify that a premises within the boundaries 00:50:31.350 --> 00:50:34.370 of some geographically determined area. 00:50:34.370 --> 00:50:38.420 We recommend two different HUD based geo group, 00:50:38.420 --> 00:50:41.074 geographic datasets, which I'll go into here 00:50:41.074 --> 00:50:42.883 in a few moments. 00:50:43.830 --> 00:50:47.040 The second option for recommendations 00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:49.170 is real-time verification. 00:50:49.170 --> 00:50:54.170 So we agree that a third party model of income verification, 00:50:54.500 --> 00:50:58.985 such as the LIDA List, that's maintained by Solar X, 00:50:58.985 --> 00:51:01.060 for those of you who are familiar. 00:51:01.060 --> 00:51:03.390 Provides a greater degree of confidence, 00:51:03.390 --> 00:51:06.230 but we also acknowledge that it can slow down the process 00:51:06.230 --> 00:51:08.210 and we appreciate the need 00:51:08.210 --> 00:51:10.920 for real-time, on-site verification. 00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:14.740 And so we recommend exploring ways that a third-party list 00:51:14.740 --> 00:51:17.300 could be created that is, 00:51:17.300 --> 00:51:21.204 can enable real time address verification 00:51:21.204 --> 00:51:23.640 that could occur onsite through a web based tool. 00:51:23.640 --> 00:51:26.225 We'll go into a little bit more detail about that 00:51:26.225 --> 00:51:27.853 recommendation as well. 00:51:28.810 --> 00:51:31.450 Thirdly, we recommend using opportunities 00:51:31.450 --> 00:51:33.553 to leverage existing programs. 00:51:34.443 --> 00:51:35.753 And so to avoid, 00:51:37.225 --> 00:51:38.440 in the spirit of avoiding barriers 00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:40.241 and increasing confidence, 00:51:40.241 --> 00:51:42.930 it's important to allow redacted documentation 00:51:42.930 --> 00:51:45.830 of participation in social service programs 00:51:45.830 --> 00:51:47.430 as proof of eligibility. 00:51:47.430 --> 00:51:50.880 And then finally, we recommend that self-certification 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.720 does continue as permissible as the last result. 00:51:53.720 --> 00:51:56.070 If those, as the last resort, 00:51:56.070 --> 00:51:59.203 if those other three methods don't suffice. 00:52:00.620 --> 00:52:01.740 Let me pause there, 00:52:01.740 --> 00:52:03.570 just to, that's a lot of information so far. 00:52:03.570 --> 00:52:04.403 Any questions so far? 00:52:04.403 --> 00:52:05.658 Yes, Cyrus. 00:52:05.658 --> 00:52:07.208 On that third bullet, 00:52:08.380 --> 00:52:13.200 are other programs also did they use the 200% 00:52:13.200 --> 00:52:14.870 of the federal? 00:52:14.870 --> 00:52:17.070 Because I know in Austin Energy, 00:52:17.070 --> 00:52:21.173 they started going to the 80% of AMI versus 200% of- 00:52:21.173 --> 00:52:22.050 That is correct. 00:52:22.050 --> 00:52:25.305 So not all programs do use 200% FPL, 00:52:25.305 --> 00:52:28.940 some use 150% of FPL and some will use 80% AMI 00:52:28.940 --> 00:52:30.970 or even 60% AMI. 00:52:30.970 --> 00:52:33.470 But what we have found is 200% FPL 00:52:33.470 --> 00:52:37.140 does tend to be the most relaxed, 00:52:37.140 --> 00:52:40.830 meaning if other program eligibility should suffice 00:52:40.830 --> 00:52:42.157 for that 200%. 00:52:42.157 --> 00:52:45.376 Okay, so you don't need to try to compare the- 00:52:45.376 --> 00:52:46.496 Exactly. Exactly. 00:52:46.496 --> 00:52:47.329 Okay. 00:52:47.329 --> 00:52:48.560 I can check with Jackie 00:52:48.560 --> 00:52:49.970 just to make sure we can look 00:52:49.970 --> 00:52:51.940 at exactly how those numbers fall out 00:52:51.940 --> 00:52:54.840 because household size matters as well. 00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.290 But, that is the conclusion that she'd come to, 00:52:57.290 --> 00:52:58.883 that 200% is sufficient. 00:53:02.350 --> 00:53:03.350 Any other questions? 00:53:06.560 --> 00:53:07.818 Okay. 00:53:07.818 --> 00:53:10.990 So next I'll go into a little bit of detail 00:53:10.990 --> 00:53:13.170 on each of the recommendations 00:53:14.030 --> 00:53:16.140 and really what those may look like. 00:53:16.140 --> 00:53:18.520 So again, we envisioned geo-eligibility 00:53:18.520 --> 00:53:20.800 as kind of the first step in the process. 00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:22.940 Frankly, it's the easiest to verify, 00:53:22.940 --> 00:53:25.570 it's easiest to access the datasets 00:53:25.570 --> 00:53:28.030 and frankly, it can be done relatively simple 00:53:28.030 --> 00:53:32.723 through a platform that can access those data sets. 00:53:34.070 --> 00:53:37.110 So if a premise address meets the criteria, 00:53:37.110 --> 00:53:38.050 they fill out a form 00:53:38.050 --> 00:53:40.560 which includes self certifying their income 00:53:40.560 --> 00:53:41.720 and are ready for service. 00:53:41.720 --> 00:53:43.670 And so it's fairly basic. 00:53:43.670 --> 00:53:45.590 So, the study did show 00:53:45.590 --> 00:53:48.210 that geographic based eligibility verification 00:53:48.210 --> 00:53:52.430 is emerging really across the US as an innovative approach. 00:53:52.430 --> 00:53:55.110 One case study that's included in the materials 00:53:55.110 --> 00:53:56.470 is from NYSERDA, 00:53:56.470 --> 00:53:59.623 which is using geo-eligibility quite successfully. 00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:05.680 In our analysis, we looked at both the LMISD group data, 00:54:05.680 --> 00:54:10.470 which is the low, HUD low-income summary data, 00:54:10.470 --> 00:54:14.940 as well as the QCTs, which are HUD qualified census tracts, 00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:17.850 which use different eligibility criteria. 00:54:17.850 --> 00:54:20.440 Each approach has its advantages. 00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:23.500 And, we were going along the lines of trying to pick one 00:54:23.500 --> 00:54:25.030 and making one recommendation. 00:54:25.030 --> 00:54:26.870 But I think come to the, came to the conclusion, 00:54:26.870 --> 00:54:28.510 along with Tetra Tech and Oncor 00:54:29.378 --> 00:54:31.155 that it makes sense to try to use both. 00:54:31.155 --> 00:54:35.316 And so if either of those data sets do confirm eligibility, 00:54:35.316 --> 00:54:37.470 that would be our recommendation 00:54:37.470 --> 00:54:41.300 to certify as eligibility in the process. 00:54:41.300 --> 00:54:42.240 For this study, 00:54:42.240 --> 00:54:45.380 we were really focusing on Oncor's service territory, 00:54:45.380 --> 00:54:48.900 but we believe that this process would work across the state 00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:52.090 and those data sets are available publicly 00:54:52.090 --> 00:54:55.033 and across the state of Texas. 00:54:57.430 --> 00:54:59.780 So next, so that's kind of step one, 00:54:59.780 --> 00:55:02.620 then step two for people who would not qualify 00:55:02.620 --> 00:55:05.220 based on geo-eligibility, 00:55:05.220 --> 00:55:06.710 we suggest having another way 00:55:06.710 --> 00:55:09.480 to achieve real-time onsite verification there 00:55:09.480 --> 00:55:12.410 while the contractor is on the premise. 00:55:12.410 --> 00:55:15.770 And we envisioned this looking something like 00:55:15.770 --> 00:55:18.930 the Low Income Discount Administrator List that exists now, 00:55:18.930 --> 00:55:21.540 which is being accessed by retail electric providers 00:55:21.540 --> 00:55:23.003 on a monthly basis. 00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:26.540 We, this list is an example. 00:55:26.540 --> 00:55:29.510 We don't yet have permission to use this list specifically, 00:55:29.510 --> 00:55:32.080 but we would like to explore opportunities 00:55:32.080 --> 00:55:34.000 to find another agency to partner with 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:37.400 so that we can maintain a database of participation 00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:39.610 in a program that has income qualification 00:55:39.610 --> 00:55:43.630 at the same threshold of the 200% federal poverty line 00:55:43.630 --> 00:55:44.603 or less. 00:55:46.530 --> 00:55:49.680 Because primary eligibility verification issue 00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:53.850 involves the Hard2Reach single family residential programs. 00:55:53.850 --> 00:55:55.340 It's especially important to make sure 00:55:55.340 --> 00:55:57.840 that this is achievable in real time there onsite. 00:55:58.963 --> 00:56:01.760 And we recognize that time delays are meaningful barrier 00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:05.270 to customer participation and effective implementation. 00:56:05.270 --> 00:56:08.020 And we believe that this would be both cost effective 00:56:08.020 --> 00:56:10.780 and solve for privacy concerns 00:56:10.780 --> 00:56:13.040 because we're not having to collect customer information 00:56:13.040 --> 00:56:14.380 there onsite. 00:56:14.380 --> 00:56:17.050 And they're paired with the GFL eligibility method, 00:56:17.050 --> 00:56:19.520 it could improve confidence while, 00:56:19.520 --> 00:56:22.123 while avoiding, you know, costly time delays. 00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:27.320 Dana, when you say agency partner, 00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:29.370 does that mean state agency or just? 00:56:29.370 --> 00:56:30.850 Good question. Sorry. 00:56:30.850 --> 00:56:33.240 We were referring to community action agencies. 00:56:33.240 --> 00:56:37.800 So we work with a lot of the agencies who administer LIHEAP, 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.600 which is the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program 00:56:40.600 --> 00:56:43.890 funding and Weatherization Assistance Program funding 00:56:43.890 --> 00:56:46.740 are the partners that we'd like to explore. 00:56:46.740 --> 00:56:49.060 You know, again, the LIDA list, 00:56:49.060 --> 00:56:50.980 there's a list already maintained. 00:56:50.980 --> 00:56:52.560 That would be nice if we're able to access, 00:56:52.560 --> 00:56:54.692 but we think there are a couple of other ways 00:56:54.692 --> 00:56:57.930 to access those lists as well, to consolidate and access. 00:56:57.930 --> 00:56:59.945 And as an example, 00:56:59.945 --> 00:57:02.040 TDHCA doesn't have something like this, 00:57:02.040 --> 00:57:05.070 given that they oversee a lot of those programs. 00:57:05.070 --> 00:57:09.320 We have reached out to TDHCA to explore this topic, 00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:12.800 and frankly not gotten very far down the path 00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:14.700 of whether there's something there that could, 00:57:14.700 --> 00:57:16.090 we could access, 00:57:16.090 --> 00:57:18.050 but we do think that that would be an avenue 00:57:18.050 --> 00:57:18.973 worth exploring. 00:57:19.831 --> 00:57:21.510 And just for clarification, we're also, 00:57:21.510 --> 00:57:23.870 when we're talking about other social programs, 00:57:23.870 --> 00:57:26.640 we're talking about SNAP, Medicaid, TANF, 00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:28.780 and those types of participant, programs, 00:57:28.780 --> 00:57:31.271 in addition to potentially LIHEAP 00:57:31.271 --> 00:57:32.603 and the Weatherization Assistance Program. 00:57:37.990 --> 00:57:38.823 Okay. 00:57:41.610 --> 00:57:45.120 Next, and these, I guess these two real-time verification 00:57:45.120 --> 00:57:48.450 and leveraging existing programs do kind of go together 00:57:48.450 --> 00:57:49.880 to really bucket it under that, 00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.310 that's kind of second recommendation. 00:57:52.310 --> 00:57:55.660 But we do think that if we're not able to access that list, 00:57:55.660 --> 00:57:58.670 then allowing a customer to show proof of participation 00:57:58.670 --> 00:58:02.090 in those programs that could be captured and documented. 00:58:02.090 --> 00:58:04.730 But, with personal information redacted, 00:58:04.730 --> 00:58:07.470 so crossed out in a way that doesn't share, 00:58:07.470 --> 00:58:10.150 it doesn't encourage a contractor 00:58:10.150 --> 00:58:11.960 to collect personal information, 00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:15.970 could be another opportunity to leverage existing programs 00:58:15.970 --> 00:58:19.263 that have, that meet the income qualification criteria. 00:58:23.270 --> 00:58:25.570 Here is a very fuzzy picture. 00:58:25.570 --> 00:58:29.490 I apologize of the list of the category one programs. 00:58:29.490 --> 00:58:33.350 But there, and again, SNAP, Medicaid, TANF 00:58:33.350 --> 00:58:37.175 and others would be included. 00:58:37.175 --> 00:58:40.260 And a lot of this is in a memo created by Tetra Tech 00:58:40.260 --> 00:58:42.120 January of this year? 00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:44.270 Yeah, it may be in the state-wide report, 00:58:44.270 --> 00:58:45.804 the volume one. 00:58:45.804 --> 00:58:46.904 There's a detailed section. 00:58:46.904 --> 00:58:47.737 Thank you. Thank you. 00:58:47.737 --> 00:58:48.570 I think the one, 00:58:48.570 --> 00:58:50.410 one program that we did not see that included 00:58:50.410 --> 00:58:51.630 was the Lifeline program, 00:58:51.630 --> 00:58:53.923 that was one recommendation that we had to add. 00:58:57.820 --> 00:58:58.730 Okay. 00:58:58.730 --> 00:59:00.630 Next for those following along on the phone, 00:59:00.630 --> 00:59:02.770 I am now on slide 14, 00:59:02.770 --> 00:59:06.360 which is the user journey of the Oncor proposed 00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:08.640 single family verification process. 00:59:08.640 --> 00:59:10.360 What you'll see in yellow there 00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:13.940 is where TEPRI was recommending additional amendments 00:59:13.940 --> 00:59:14.890 to that process 00:59:14.890 --> 00:59:17.690 and where kind of these key recommendations will fit in. 00:59:18.550 --> 00:59:20.280 So when the, 00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:22.981 when the service provider looks up the premise 00:59:22.981 --> 00:59:24.511 and the address in the tool, 00:59:24.511 --> 00:59:26.550 we suggest that the underlying database use both, 00:59:26.550 --> 00:59:27.680 both of those datasets, 00:59:27.680 --> 00:59:30.030 the LMISD block root dataset 00:59:30.030 --> 00:59:34.250 and the HUD qualified census dataset to, 00:59:34.250 --> 00:59:39.250 to verify through geo-eligibility as a first step. 00:59:39.610 --> 00:59:42.100 If a customer passes that step, move on, you know, 00:59:42.100 --> 00:59:44.743 capture the information and then we can move on. 00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:48.673 If a customer is either, 00:59:50.460 --> 00:59:52.670 is eligible based on either look up method, 00:59:52.670 --> 00:59:55.220 the last step would be to allow self-certification. 01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:02.963 Is there a way to move this up just a little bit? 01:00:03.970 --> 01:00:05.690 There we go. Okay. 01:00:05.690 --> 01:00:08.240 So next I want to go through just a few details 01:00:08.240 --> 01:00:11.050 specific to Oncor's service territory. 01:00:11.050 --> 01:00:13.440 Again, I think this data could be easily accessible 01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:16.080 for other service territories as well. 01:00:16.080 --> 01:00:18.580 But we really wanted to understand how this process 01:00:18.580 --> 01:00:22.870 would work based on, based on their service territory. 01:00:22.870 --> 01:00:25.220 So again, just kind of a difference 01:00:25.220 --> 01:00:28.473 between the two data sets that we're recommending, 01:00:29.470 --> 01:00:32.890 the LMISD dataset issues 01:00:32.890 --> 01:00:37.590 for the community development grants, block grant program. 01:00:37.590 --> 01:00:40.690 It operates with their resolution of block group 01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:45.100 and a qualified block group is one in which 51% or more 01:00:45.100 --> 01:00:49.260 of its population is at or below 80% area median income 01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:50.093 or AMI. 01:00:51.150 --> 01:00:54.640 This data set comes from the US Census 01:00:54.640 --> 01:00:56.040 American Community Survey, 01:00:56.040 --> 01:00:58.920 which is updated every five years. 01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:03.430 The other data set is the Qualified Census Tracts dataset, 01:01:03.430 --> 01:01:04.263 which had used, 01:01:04.263 --> 01:01:07.353 that produced the low Income Housing Tax Credit, or LIHTC. 01:01:08.610 --> 01:01:10.500 This method, Qualified Census Tracts, 01:01:10.500 --> 01:01:12.570 based on AMI as well. 01:01:12.570 --> 01:01:15.370 This formula is a bit more complex 01:01:15.370 --> 01:01:16.970 and these are Jackie's notes. 01:01:16.970 --> 01:01:19.310 The easiest way to explain it is that for the most part 01:01:19.310 --> 01:01:23.570 tracts must have 50% of households with incomes below 60% 01:01:23.570 --> 01:01:25.970 of area median gross income, 01:01:25.970 --> 01:01:28.463 or have a poverty rate of 25% or more. 01:01:29.582 --> 01:01:33.030 And this dataset comes from the household account 01:01:33.030 --> 01:01:35.561 from the 2010 bicentennial census, 01:01:35.561 --> 01:01:40.561 plus three sets of five-year tabulations from ACS. 01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:43.732 If y'all have any questions on that you have to ask Jackie. 01:01:43.732 --> 01:01:45.170 (audience laughing) 01:01:45.170 --> 01:01:47.250 But, I do know there's, again, 01:01:47.250 --> 01:01:50.910 the recommendation was each of the datasets 01:01:50.910 --> 01:01:52.770 has its advantages and disadvantages. 01:01:52.770 --> 01:01:56.143 And again, we recommend using both to qualify customers. 01:01:59.562 --> 01:02:00.630 Okay. 01:02:00.630 --> 01:02:03.770 Next, to give you a sense of our analysis, 01:02:03.770 --> 01:02:08.450 we included these maps of the Oncor service territory. 01:02:08.450 --> 01:02:10.560 The one on the left shows three years worth 01:02:10.560 --> 01:02:13.090 of Oncor low-income weatherization installations 01:02:13.090 --> 01:02:16.382 relative to LMISDs, 01:02:16.382 --> 01:02:19.760 and the map on the right shows one year of data for QCTs. 01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:21.790 We generated these maps for QCTs 01:02:21.790 --> 01:02:25.180 for each of the three years since the data updates annually. 01:02:25.180 --> 01:02:28.237 Whereas LMISD is every five years. 01:02:28.237 --> 01:02:31.770 And so it changes left, less often. 01:02:31.770 --> 01:02:34.180 So, really our objective here was to evaluate 01:02:34.180 --> 01:02:37.570 how effective each method was in identifying 01:02:37.570 --> 01:02:39.573 low-income households in Texas. 01:02:40.674 --> 01:02:43.130 And so these maps offer a glimpse of the Statewide coverage 01:02:43.130 --> 01:02:45.163 of the two methods. 01:02:45.163 --> 01:02:48.410 And you'll notice that the LMISDs capture more areas 01:02:48.410 --> 01:02:51.773 because that data is at a finer resolution. 01:02:55.580 --> 01:02:57.860 Here's just a little bit about the process, 01:02:57.860 --> 01:02:59.560 which I won't go into in detail, 01:02:59.560 --> 01:03:01.590 but really to perform the analysis 01:03:01.590 --> 01:03:03.600 that we described just a second ago, 01:03:03.600 --> 01:03:08.350 we associated Oncor service area zip codes to block groups 01:03:08.350 --> 01:03:10.700 and census tracks to kind of do that match 01:03:10.700 --> 01:03:11.533 with that look up, 01:03:11.533 --> 01:03:13.960 which is the same method that we would recommend 01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:16.380 the platform would do behind the scenes 01:03:16.380 --> 01:03:18.143 to perform this check. 01:03:21.350 --> 01:03:24.300 Okay. So what we found. 01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:27.610 So again, specific to Oncor service area, 01:03:27.610 --> 01:03:29.210 this summarizes the results, 01:03:29.210 --> 01:03:31.630 and it's really meant to answer the question, 01:03:31.630 --> 01:03:33.840 if we use this geo-eligibility method, 01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:35.767 how many low income people would be included 01:03:35.767 --> 01:03:38.340 and how many non low income people 01:03:38.340 --> 01:03:40.490 would be unintentionally ineligible 01:03:40.490 --> 01:03:42.623 just for this geo-eligibility method. 01:03:44.164 --> 01:03:46.870 And what we found is that while sending fewer percent 01:03:46.870 --> 01:03:49.824 of people in QCTs are low income, 01:03:49.824 --> 01:03:52.440 only 31 low-income, percent of low-income individuals 01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:54.450 reside in QCTs. 01:03:54.450 --> 01:03:55.980 So they're reliable, 01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:59.960 QCTs are reliable in excluding ineligible households, 01:03:59.960 --> 01:04:02.610 but there reach isn't all that large. 01:04:02.610 --> 01:04:07.420 Conversely, 70% of the people in the LMISD block groups 01:04:07.420 --> 01:04:10.410 are low income and 59% of low income people 01:04:10.410 --> 01:04:12.717 are in LMISD block groups. 01:04:12.717 --> 01:04:16.170 And so with the LMISD method we improved the reach, 01:04:16.170 --> 01:04:19.990 which is why we came to the recommendation of using both. 01:04:19.990 --> 01:04:21.860 And so we think by both methods, 01:04:21.860 --> 01:04:25.340 we capture, help households who may be in only one 01:04:26.208 --> 01:04:27.893 of those two types of categories. 01:04:28.750 --> 01:04:31.040 And again, this information is in your packets, 01:04:31.040 --> 01:04:33.763 if you're interested in looking in more detail there. 01:04:36.040 --> 01:04:38.050 So in conclusion, 01:04:38.050 --> 01:04:40.793 kind of as a result of all of this analysis, 01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:46.610 we, to summarize, we conclude that the following measures 01:04:46.610 --> 01:04:49.280 are appropriate solutions to increase confidence, 01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:52.690 reach the intended customers and avoid institution, 01:04:52.690 --> 01:04:54.380 additional barriers. 01:04:54.380 --> 01:04:57.050 So build a geo-eligibility lookup tool 01:04:57.050 --> 01:04:58.490 that all utilities can share 01:04:58.490 --> 01:05:01.570 that integrates the existing dataset 01:05:01.570 --> 01:05:02.570 using both models. 01:05:02.570 --> 01:05:03.570 Again, we recommend. 01:05:04.820 --> 01:05:06.910 Secondly, explore ways to share data 01:05:06.910 --> 01:05:09.180 from social service agencies 01:05:09.180 --> 01:05:12.190 to cross reference their recipients address 01:05:12.190 --> 01:05:14.250 to the premise address, 01:05:14.250 --> 01:05:15.487 which would allow contractors- 01:05:15.487 --> 01:05:16.600 [Automated Voice On Phone] You've been muted. 01:05:16.600 --> 01:05:18.653 To unmute yourself, press *6. 01:05:20.466 --> 01:05:21.299 Jaime? 01:05:21.299 --> 01:05:24.080 (audience laughing) 01:05:24.080 --> 01:05:26.500 So that process would allow contractors to, 01:05:26.500 --> 01:05:27.667 to look up an address 01:05:27.667 --> 01:05:30.440 and see if a customer is income eligible 01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:33.183 without seeing or handling any personal information. 01:05:34.410 --> 01:05:35.670 So for customers who don't qualify 01:05:35.670 --> 01:05:38.400 using one of those two look up methods, 01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:41.380 allow documentation to show active participation 01:05:41.380 --> 01:05:42.963 in qualifying programs. 01:05:44.028 --> 01:05:46.551 And in the absence of all of those, 01:05:46.551 --> 01:05:49.610 of that self certification, 01:05:49.610 --> 01:05:52.040 we recommend the self-certification persist 01:05:52.040 --> 01:05:54.760 as a last resort method for customers 01:05:54.760 --> 01:05:57.663 who don't fall with any of the above categories. 01:05:58.570 --> 01:06:00.350 And to understand that that's an issue, 01:06:00.350 --> 01:06:02.170 we do recommend an audit process 01:06:02.170 --> 01:06:05.130 of a sampling of self-certified households 01:06:05.130 --> 01:06:07.043 in Oncor's compliance audit. 01:06:08.610 --> 01:06:12.171 Laura, Amy was saying that she thinks they lost 01:06:12.171 --> 01:06:13.631 the feed on the Teams meeting. 01:06:13.631 --> 01:06:16.800 So I think you both get muted. 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:18.397 Okay. 01:06:18.397 --> 01:06:19.580 Or at least some people are affected. 01:06:19.580 --> 01:06:21.867 Okay, let me let them know. 01:06:27.640 --> 01:06:29.000 Is there something I can do here? 01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.210 No, I think I'll just give a quick call 01:06:31.210 --> 01:06:33.159 and let them know some people are off. 01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:36.450 But I would say just for time, I would keep going, Dana. 01:06:36.450 --> 01:06:39.630 So, this is actually all I had to present. 01:06:39.630 --> 01:06:43.163 So I think we can open up to questions at this point. 01:06:44.452 --> 01:06:45.570 I have a general question. 01:06:45.570 --> 01:06:48.640 I love the idea of a lookup tool 01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:51.190 that all utilities could use. 01:06:51.190 --> 01:06:55.000 Do you have any sense of a timeline for something like that? 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:55.879 Well- 01:06:55.879 --> 01:06:57.220 Have you discussed it all? 01:06:57.220 --> 01:06:59.719 And the cost. And the cost. 01:06:59.719 --> 01:07:00.840 Yes. 01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:03.411 We can no longer hear the presenter. 01:07:03.411 --> 01:07:08.090 Yeah, we're working on it at the moment. 01:07:08.090 --> 01:07:10.650 Maybe we can actually repeat these questions. 01:07:10.650 --> 01:07:13.590 So we are looking into developing- 01:07:13.590 --> 01:07:15.558 [Automated Voice On Phone] You are not allowed to unmute. 01:07:15.558 --> 01:07:18.160 To raise your hand, press *5. 01:07:18.160 --> 01:07:20.135 You are allowed to unmute. 01:07:20.135 --> 01:07:22.552 To unmute yourself, press *6. 01:07:24.027 --> 01:07:24.860 (audience members laughing) 01:07:24.860 --> 01:07:27.173 Do you think you have to unmute yourself- 01:07:27.173 --> 01:07:30.181 Maybe, did I put, muted it somehow? 01:07:30.181 --> 01:07:31.764 I bet so. 01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:34.113 Can you hear us now? 01:07:34.113 --> 01:07:34.946 Can you hear us now? 01:07:34.946 --> 01:07:36.644 [Automated Voice On Phone] Hand raise. 01:07:36.644 --> 01:07:39.462 (laughing) 01:07:39.462 --> 01:07:40.493 I think, was it *6? 01:07:41.427 --> 01:07:43.320 Laura, are you having problems? 01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:44.614 Yep. 01:07:44.614 --> 01:07:46.093 Can't hear you, can you check your mic? 01:07:47.032 --> 01:07:48.798 (phone beeps) 01:07:48.798 --> 01:07:49.631 Can you hear us now? 01:07:52.654 --> 01:07:53.980 [Automated Voice On Phone] You are no longer muted. 01:07:53.980 --> 01:07:55.424 Great. 01:07:55.424 --> 01:07:56.724 Gina, can you hear us now? 01:07:57.980 --> 01:07:59.240 Yes, we can. Thank you. 01:07:59.240 --> 01:08:01.390 Oh, great. We accidentally got muted. 01:08:01.390 --> 01:08:03.130 So, we're unmuted now. 01:08:03.130 --> 01:08:04.865 Do you think I did that with this? 01:08:04.865 --> 01:08:05.924 I'm sorry. 01:08:05.924 --> 01:08:07.543 I don't know what happened. 01:08:07.543 --> 01:08:10.112 I think it's our first hybrid. 01:08:10.112 --> 01:08:12.770 (laughing) 01:08:12.770 --> 01:08:14.790 So, maybe could you repeat the question? 01:08:14.790 --> 01:08:15.960 Sure, yeah. I'll be happy to. 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:20.330 So the question was whether we had looked into developing 01:08:20.330 --> 01:08:22.960 a platform, a look up tool, 01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:25.230 and if we had an idea of a timeline or you know, 01:08:25.230 --> 01:08:27.300 about how much that would cost. 01:08:27.300 --> 01:08:28.650 I think that the good news is 01:08:28.650 --> 01:08:32.300 from a platform development standpoint 01:08:32.300 --> 01:08:33.870 is a fairly easy query. 01:08:33.870 --> 01:08:35.060 It's a large data set, 01:08:35.060 --> 01:08:37.420 but it's not all that complicated. 01:08:37.420 --> 01:08:39.510 And so Oncor has asked us to go ahead 01:08:39.510 --> 01:08:42.530 and start developing a prototype for testing. 01:08:42.530 --> 01:08:44.010 That would be really, you know, 01:08:44.010 --> 01:08:46.560 we're kind of looking for the, to test it with a, 01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:48.520 to pilot it with a few contractors first 01:08:48.520 --> 01:08:50.620 and then potentially roll it out more and more largely, 01:08:50.620 --> 01:08:54.063 but it's relatively, relatively cost-effective. 01:08:55.360 --> 01:08:57.270 Now that would also be for that first 01:08:57.270 --> 01:08:58.580 geo-eligibility lookup, 01:08:58.580 --> 01:09:02.200 not necessarily the second look up for participation 01:09:02.200 --> 01:09:05.060 in qualifying programs. 01:09:05.060 --> 01:09:06.943 That one, again, the, 01:09:06.943 --> 01:09:08.610 I think the lookup is fairly simple. 01:09:08.610 --> 01:09:11.980 The challenge is getting access to the data sets. 01:09:11.980 --> 01:09:14.040 And so that, that's the piece that we're- 01:09:14.040 --> 01:09:15.900 And that's why I asked about THCA, 01:09:15.900 --> 01:09:18.810 because I feel like they would have, 01:09:18.810 --> 01:09:20.073 they must collect. 01:09:20.910 --> 01:09:22.900 I know they do spot checks of all the- 01:09:22.900 --> 01:09:23.733 They would as well. 01:09:23.733 --> 01:09:26.633 And certainly the agencies themselves for it would 01:09:26.633 --> 01:09:28.270 but there's what 41 agencies. 01:09:28.270 --> 01:09:29.930 40, yeah whatever. 01:09:29.930 --> 01:09:32.450 Yeah. And so I'm just not sure at what level 01:09:32.450 --> 01:09:34.640 that personal information gets rolled up. 01:09:34.640 --> 01:09:37.860 And the other thing that we do need to be careful of 01:09:37.860 --> 01:09:41.870 is matching a qualifying customer with an address. 01:09:41.870 --> 01:09:44.130 So a name with an address is, you know, 01:09:44.130 --> 01:09:46.740 the piece that we'll have to make sure we can work out 01:09:46.740 --> 01:09:47.930 the kinks to. 01:09:47.930 --> 01:09:52.620 Dana, on the TDHCA you let me sort of get some 01:09:52.620 --> 01:09:55.673 of the areas or the properties that are participating. 01:09:56.580 --> 01:09:58.085 Yes. Yeah. 01:09:58.085 --> 01:09:59.431 So, you might need to work that way 01:09:59.431 --> 01:10:01.080 and a lot of times they like to have a certain percentage 01:10:01.080 --> 01:10:04.550 of their properties that are considered either VLI or LI. 01:10:04.550 --> 01:10:09.090 So that might also be a way of, your geographic areas. 01:10:09.090 --> 01:10:11.800 Okay, yeah. That could be worth exploring. Certainly. 01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:16.500 So I think in terms of sort of where we are now 01:10:16.500 --> 01:10:17.333 in this process, 01:10:17.333 --> 01:10:19.700 is let's move forward on the geo-eligibility piece 01:10:19.700 --> 01:10:22.100 and kind of develop that tool and that platform 01:10:22.100 --> 01:10:24.380 while we explore kind of that step two 01:10:24.380 --> 01:10:27.100 and look for other kind of list 01:10:27.100 --> 01:10:29.330 that we can have access to that would, 01:10:29.330 --> 01:10:32.480 that we could potentially hold into, ideally the same tool. 01:10:32.480 --> 01:10:34.517 Although I don't want to speak out of turn on that. 01:10:34.517 --> 01:10:36.383 No, that's correct. Yes. 01:10:36.383 --> 01:10:38.190 Okay. Yeah. 01:10:38.190 --> 01:10:39.323 Any other questions? 01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:44.060 So our intent is to have this prototype tool 01:10:44.060 --> 01:10:47.640 up and running by early to mid January. 01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:49.883 In time for our 2022 programs. 01:10:55.390 --> 01:10:58.960 I think I had 45 minutes. I'm not sure I've taken that. 01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:00.870 I think maybe on the phone, I know we, 01:11:00.870 --> 01:11:02.460 I'm not sure at what point we cut out, 01:11:02.460 --> 01:11:03.690 but if there are any other questions, 01:11:03.690 --> 01:11:05.040 we'd be happy to take them. 01:11:12.550 --> 01:11:15.333 Great, I think, are we good? 01:11:16.321 --> 01:11:17.480 All right. 01:11:17.480 --> 01:11:18.790 Yeah, thank you so much. 01:11:18.790 --> 01:11:20.340 Yeah, of course. My pleasure. 01:11:23.190 --> 01:11:27.810 So, we are gonna break til 11, does that sound good? 01:11:27.810 --> 01:11:28.810 We'll break till 11. 01:11:30.380 --> 01:11:32.730 Wait, I, sorry I have one more question. 01:11:32.730 --> 01:11:37.730 On the, on that first type of lookup tool, or even using it, 01:11:38.160 --> 01:11:39.460 as you mentioned for Gina, 01:11:40.505 --> 01:11:42.150 having that in place for January. 01:11:42.150 --> 01:11:47.150 Is that expense one that can be part of the regular, 01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:51.530 is that considered a regular sort of administrative cost? 01:11:53.334 --> 01:11:54.170 It's okay. 01:11:54.170 --> 01:11:57.090 But, what about building, you know, 01:11:57.090 --> 01:11:58.620 a bigger utility wide tool? 01:11:58.620 --> 01:12:00.430 Is that something that could be paid for 01:12:00.430 --> 01:12:03.417 as part of the VE programs 01:12:03.417 --> 01:12:04.755 or that would be something the Commission 01:12:04.755 --> 01:12:06.256 would need to look at? 01:12:06.256 --> 01:12:07.473 They would probably need to consider it. 01:12:12.950 --> 01:12:16.760 I'm trying to think about, out loud about ways that maybe, 01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:20.170 you know, we could get additional money from like THCA 01:12:20.170 --> 01:12:24.130 or some of this, the large amounts of funding coming down. 01:12:24.130 --> 01:12:26.570 Maybe there's a way to not have rate payers pay for. 01:12:26.570 --> 01:12:28.576 I mean, I think it's a good tool, 01:12:28.576 --> 01:12:31.330 but maybe there's another funding stream for it. 01:12:31.330 --> 01:12:32.994 Certainly worth exploring. 01:12:32.994 --> 01:12:34.577 Yeah, definitely. 01:12:37.485 --> 01:12:38.318 Thanks. 01:12:41.605 --> 01:12:45.933 Great. Anything else? 01:12:45.933 --> 01:12:49.474 All right, for those- Hi, is there a question? 01:12:49.474 --> 01:12:52.462 (indistinct talking on phone) 01:12:52.462 --> 01:12:55.175 But you guys can also kind of pitch that 01:12:55.175 --> 01:12:56.101 and that was great. 01:12:56.101 --> 01:12:58.806 Like any kind of (indistinct) 01:12:58.806 --> 01:13:02.180 (audience laughing) 01:13:02.180 --> 01:13:03.400 All right. 01:13:03.400 --> 01:13:04.570 I think we, we're gonna break 01:13:04.570 --> 01:13:07.165 for those on the phone until 11. 01:13:07.165 --> 01:13:08.445 (laughing) 01:13:08.445 --> 01:13:11.113 So, hang on or call back at 11. 01:13:17.420 --> 01:13:18.300 Back, everybody. 01:13:18.300 --> 01:13:21.326 Welcome back on the phone and in the room 01:13:21.326 --> 01:13:23.260 and it was nice to have a short break 01:13:23.260 --> 01:13:26.005 and reconnect with people before we proceed, 01:13:26.005 --> 01:13:26.910 so we are on time. 01:13:26.910 --> 01:13:31.910 so I'd like to kick off the TRM portion of today's meeting 01:13:31.927 --> 01:13:34.720 and just start with the approval process. 01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:37.130 So the Commissions Evaluation Measurement 01:13:37.130 --> 01:13:38.610 and Verification Contractor, 01:13:38.610 --> 01:13:40.840 which is Laura with Tetra Tech. 01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:45.210 Review the TRM at least annually for needed updates 01:13:45.210 --> 01:13:48.023 and already we're on version 9.0. 01:13:49.167 --> 01:13:51.040 You know, we, I think our very first version 01:13:51.040 --> 01:13:55.150 was published in 2014 after quite a bit of work in 2013. 01:13:55.150 --> 01:13:58.910 So we've come a long way and the TRM is greatly expanded. 01:13:58.910 --> 01:14:03.300 So, any utility or stakeholder can request additions 01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:05.760 or modifications to the TRM 01:14:05.760 --> 01:14:07.840 as long as they provide documentation 01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:09.473 specific to the request. 01:14:10.970 --> 01:14:12.760 The second really important point 01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:15.850 is that the Commission staff approves of TRM 01:14:15.850 --> 01:14:18.010 using the EEIP process. 01:14:18.010 --> 01:14:21.190 And why this is important is it allows the stakeholders 01:14:21.190 --> 01:14:25.090 to weigh in on the proposed changes and modifications. 01:14:25.090 --> 01:14:27.723 So it is an open and transparent project. 01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:31.280 The regular TRM process, 01:14:31.280 --> 01:14:32.710 if you want to go to the next slide. 01:14:32.710 --> 01:14:34.007 Oh, you're- 01:14:34.007 --> 01:14:37.154 I'm sorry (women talk over each other) 01:14:37.154 --> 01:14:39.304 (women laugh) 01:14:39.304 --> 01:14:40.873 okay. So the TRA, 01:14:40.873 --> 01:14:44.120 the TRM project is collaborative. 01:14:44.120 --> 01:14:48.063 Like I said, the EM&V contractor does an annual review. 01:14:48.940 --> 01:14:50.460 There is input received 01:14:50.460 --> 01:14:53.460 from the group of utilities called EUMMAT, 01:14:53.460 --> 01:14:57.890 which is the Electric Utilities Marketing Managers at Texas. 01:14:57.890 --> 01:14:59.640 They make, they make updates 01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.500 as well as individual utilities can propose updates 01:15:03.500 --> 01:15:05.263 along with documentation, 01:15:06.290 --> 01:15:08.690 proposed updates can come from the EEIP. 01:15:08.690 --> 01:15:11.763 It can also come from EM&V research. 01:15:13.790 --> 01:15:15.520 Is that next slide? Oh, yep. 01:15:15.520 --> 01:15:16.940 Did you want to, I'm sorry. 01:15:16.940 --> 01:15:20.240 Did you, here we go. 01:15:20.240 --> 01:15:22.066 Yes, okay. So the goal- 01:15:22.066 --> 01:15:22.899 (Presenter chuckles) 01:15:22.899 --> 01:15:25.540 The goal of the updates is to improve the accuracy 01:15:25.540 --> 01:15:27.050 of the deemed savings measures, 01:15:27.050 --> 01:15:31.670 expand savings, opportunities for electric customers, 01:15:31.670 --> 01:15:34.940 and to clarify the program delivery documentation 01:15:34.940 --> 01:15:36.740 and tracking requirements. 01:15:36.740 --> 01:15:39.700 And so with that, I'd like to turn it over to Laura. 01:15:39.700 --> 01:15:43.250 Great. Well, I get to turn it over to Derek here, 01:15:43.250 --> 01:15:45.580 so we're very pleased to introduce Derek 01:15:45.580 --> 01:15:46.620 with Frontier Energy. 01:15:46.620 --> 01:15:49.280 Who's gonna present on behalf of EUMMAT. 01:15:49.280 --> 01:15:52.650 Should I use this or do you wanna try and follow along? 01:15:52.650 --> 01:15:54.350 Do you want to use that? 01:15:54.350 --> 01:15:55.470 Unless we mute ourselves again. 01:15:55.470 --> 01:15:56.420 Yes, okay. 01:15:56.420 --> 01:15:57.761 I'll try to use this. 01:15:57.761 --> 01:15:59.633 All right. Let me just get you pulled up here. 01:16:02.470 --> 01:16:03.330 Seems straightforward. 01:16:03.330 --> 01:16:06.026 There's just back arrow and forward arrow. 01:16:06.026 --> 01:16:06.859 Mhm. 01:16:14.070 --> 01:16:15.320 All right. 01:16:15.320 --> 01:16:16.153 All right. Hi everyone. 01:16:16.153 --> 01:16:18.050 I'm Derek Newman with Frontier Energy 01:16:18.050 --> 01:16:19.607 presenting on behalf of EUMMAT. 01:16:20.820 --> 01:16:24.964 And so we're just gonna go over a few of the key updates 01:16:24.964 --> 01:16:26.325 to this year's TRM. 01:16:26.325 --> 01:16:28.060 I'm not gonna go over, over everything in detail. 01:16:28.060 --> 01:16:32.800 If I did, we'd be here for too long, but, and honestly, 01:16:32.800 --> 01:16:34.500 most of you probably aren't that interested 01:16:34.500 --> 01:16:36.990 in the details of each measure. 01:16:36.990 --> 01:16:39.680 But, I will say this year's update 01:16:39.680 --> 01:16:43.590 was a little bit more qualitative than quantitative. 01:16:43.590 --> 01:16:46.935 Last year, we went through pretty much every measure 01:16:46.935 --> 01:16:48.380 of the TRM, except for a few sections 01:16:48.380 --> 01:16:51.430 that I'll talk about a little bit later 01:16:51.430 --> 01:16:52.440 in the presentation today, 01:16:52.440 --> 01:16:54.550 but we went through each measure 01:16:54.550 --> 01:16:56.147 with more of a fine tooth comb last year 01:16:56.147 --> 01:16:59.530 and make sure all the citations were current. 01:16:59.530 --> 01:17:02.406 As we were just talking about here, 01:17:02.406 --> 01:17:04.290 the TRM is getting into the later versions now. 01:17:04.290 --> 01:17:05.900 We're already at 9.0. 01:17:05.900 --> 01:17:08.800 And even before the TRM existed, 01:17:08.800 --> 01:17:10.320 deemed savings were filed separately. 01:17:10.320 --> 01:17:13.280 And so some of these measures were pretty old 01:17:13.280 --> 01:17:15.010 and hadn't been reviewed in some time. 01:17:15.010 --> 01:17:17.010 So that's kind of what last year's 01:17:18.317 --> 01:17:20.463 very thorough review was for. 01:17:21.707 --> 01:17:23.970 And so this year we're trying to do a little bit more 01:17:23.970 --> 01:17:27.070 cleaning up of the, the language around the savings. 01:17:27.070 --> 01:17:29.830 So explaining different applications or scenarios 01:17:29.830 --> 01:17:31.500 that might be uncommon, 01:17:31.500 --> 01:17:34.323 but needed to have some additional explanation. 01:17:35.355 --> 01:17:36.860 And so you'll see that as a theme, 01:17:36.860 --> 01:17:40.210 not as many changes to savings values this year, 01:17:40.210 --> 01:17:41.730 as we've seen in some of the previous years, 01:17:41.730 --> 01:17:42.680 but certainly some. 01:17:44.390 --> 01:17:46.043 Start with volume one. 01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:51.610 The, the peak methodology is unique in Texas, 01:17:51.610 --> 01:17:53.540 very different than it is in other states. 01:17:53.540 --> 01:17:56.170 And so we're always having to clarify 01:17:56.170 --> 01:17:57.600 certain scenarios there. 01:17:57.600 --> 01:18:00.500 One of the ones this year is just that with the, 01:18:00.500 --> 01:18:01.333 the fact that in Texas, 01:18:01.333 --> 01:18:04.130 you can claim either winter or summer peak, 01:18:04.130 --> 01:18:05.233 the higher of the two. 01:18:06.110 --> 01:18:09.460 We did want to just point out that you can, 01:18:09.460 --> 01:18:12.060 you can claim either/or as long at, 01:18:12.060 --> 01:18:14.500 for a site that has multiple projects 01:18:14.500 --> 01:18:15.870 occurring at that site, 01:18:15.870 --> 01:18:17.870 but only if they have independent operations. 01:18:17.870 --> 01:18:20.290 So I have a few examples here on the slide. 01:18:20.290 --> 01:18:23.790 But, an example where you would not be able to claim 01:18:23.790 --> 01:18:25.600 both winter and summer for the same project 01:18:25.600 --> 01:18:28.940 would be an HVAC system that also had BAS controls, 01:18:28.940 --> 01:18:33.033 because both of those are operating in tandem. 01:18:34.290 --> 01:18:35.380 On the other hand, 01:18:35.380 --> 01:18:38.030 if you looked at something like residential lighting. 01:18:40.200 --> 01:18:44.093 That if you did lighting and HVAC in a residential setting, 01:18:44.992 --> 01:18:47.720 the lighting is allowed to claim winter peak, 01:18:47.720 --> 01:18:50.230 and the HVAC would claim summer peak 01:18:50.230 --> 01:18:53.400 unless you're replacing an electric resistance furnace. 01:18:53.400 --> 01:18:55.740 In which case you could, you could claim the winter peak. 01:18:55.740 --> 01:18:57.620 So there's lots of variations here, 01:18:57.620 --> 01:18:59.600 but in that second example, 01:18:59.600 --> 01:19:04.443 the lighting and HVAC equipment are separate systems. 01:19:04.443 --> 01:19:06.320 And so that can also occur with the same measure. 01:19:06.320 --> 01:19:08.720 If you look at commercial lighting, for example, 01:19:09.580 --> 01:19:12.120 the interior lighting is allowed to claim 01:19:12.120 --> 01:19:13.210 summer peak savings, 01:19:13.210 --> 01:19:15.290 but the outdoor lighting would be allowed to claim 01:19:15.290 --> 01:19:16.123 winter peak. 01:19:16.123 --> 01:19:18.630 So those are two examples of that are detailed 01:19:18.630 --> 01:19:20.710 a little bit more in volume one. 01:19:20.710 --> 01:19:22.680 But that was a key, 01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:25.260 key thing we wanted to point out. Phil? 01:19:25.260 --> 01:19:26.970 So you may have some measures that say, 01:19:26.970 --> 01:19:30.800 save in summertime and others that save in wintertime. 01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:32.280 Correct. 01:19:32.280 --> 01:19:33.763 And some, that save both. 01:19:35.620 --> 01:19:37.920 If you have a measure that saves both 01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:40.470 why do you all have to claim one or the other, 01:19:40.470 --> 01:19:41.723 why can't you claim both? 01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:46.930 Well, it's, it's not, they're not additive. 01:19:46.930 --> 01:19:48.953 It's a savings. 01:19:48.953 --> 01:19:49.786 But there's a benefit. 01:19:49.786 --> 01:19:51.050 There's a summer and winter benefit. 01:19:51.050 --> 01:19:52.260 Right. 01:19:52.260 --> 01:19:53.940 The way that the measures have always been reported, 01:19:53.940 --> 01:19:56.690 it's the maximum benefit that a certain measure provides, 01:19:56.690 --> 01:19:59.370 whether that, and initially it was just summer. 01:19:59.370 --> 01:20:02.430 Most states will have only either summer or winter. 01:20:02.430 --> 01:20:05.610 We've had our own issues with, with winter storms, 01:20:05.610 --> 01:20:09.545 not just this last year, but a while back, 01:20:09.545 --> 01:20:10.686 I think back in 2012, 01:20:10.686 --> 01:20:11.670 because I think that led to the introduction 01:20:11.670 --> 01:20:15.233 of this kind of dual peak approach and- 01:20:16.330 --> 01:20:19.820 But there is value in measures that save both. 01:20:19.820 --> 01:20:23.230 So, so Phil, we don't necessarily disagree, 01:20:23.230 --> 01:20:25.170 but this is really clear in the rules. 01:20:25.170 --> 01:20:26.860 So in under the current rule, 01:20:26.860 --> 01:20:29.250 there's no flexibility in that. 01:20:29.250 --> 01:20:30.923 It's very clear. 01:20:30.923 --> 01:20:32.260 It's winter or summer peak. 01:20:32.260 --> 01:20:34.760 So, if the rule ever opens, 01:20:34.760 --> 01:20:36.690 that's a great point to make, 01:20:36.690 --> 01:20:39.630 but it's not anything that EM&V team 01:20:39.630 --> 01:20:41.613 or the utilities can do anything about. 01:20:43.914 --> 01:20:46.070 And I know a number of groups like Sierra Club 01:20:46.070 --> 01:20:48.210 have advocated for a bigger role in part, 01:20:48.210 --> 01:20:52.100 because we want to focus on both winter and summer. 01:20:52.100 --> 01:20:54.393 And that's, it would be nice to clarify that. 01:20:56.270 --> 01:20:57.620 Okay. 01:20:57.620 --> 01:20:58.453 Thanks. 01:21:01.570 --> 01:21:04.590 And another thing I wanted to just point out 01:21:04.590 --> 01:21:06.660 this isn't so much an update to the TRM. 01:21:06.660 --> 01:21:08.630 Although we did add a few citations, 01:21:08.630 --> 01:21:11.620 pointing people to the Texas Efficiency website, 01:21:11.620 --> 01:21:13.560 It's a website maintained by the utilities. 01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:16.110 So there are several things that have been built 01:21:16.110 --> 01:21:20.160 into the TRM that if implementers, for example, 01:21:20.160 --> 01:21:23.882 may want to extract and put into database form, 01:21:23.882 --> 01:21:25.922 that could be a little bit difficult. 01:21:25.922 --> 01:21:26.840 You had to reproduce some of those tables. 01:21:26.840 --> 01:21:29.450 So a lot of those things are now being made available 01:21:29.450 --> 01:21:31.393 on the Texas Efficiency website. 01:21:32.780 --> 01:21:35.480 The example I have here relating to peak methodology 01:21:35.480 --> 01:21:37.320 is in the TRM. 01:21:37.320 --> 01:21:40.663 We have a list of the highest probability peak hours, 01:21:41.633 --> 01:21:43.480 and we have temperature associated with those hours, 01:21:43.480 --> 01:21:46.240 but there are lots of additional data points available 01:21:46.240 --> 01:21:47.810 in these TMY weather files. 01:21:47.810 --> 01:21:50.760 So all of those files for all five of the climate zones 01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:53.200 will be available on Texas Efficiency, 01:21:53.200 --> 01:21:55.170 as well as a climate zone mapping, 01:21:55.170 --> 01:22:00.170 mapping each county to it's relative climate zone, 01:22:00.490 --> 01:22:03.900 an EOL spreadsheet just to point out year to year, 01:22:03.900 --> 01:22:07.073 what's changed from one version of the TRM to the next, 01:22:08.190 --> 01:22:10.240 the Lighting Survey Form Fixture Code listing, 01:22:10.240 --> 01:22:12.270 which is the primary tabulator that's used. 01:22:12.270 --> 01:22:14.950 Although other calculators are available 01:22:14.950 --> 01:22:17.563 for specific utilities. 01:22:17.563 --> 01:22:18.750 But these fixture codes form 01:22:18.750 --> 01:22:20.350 what we call a Standard Wattage Table. 01:22:20.350 --> 01:22:21.810 I'll talk a little bit more about that 01:22:21.810 --> 01:22:24.372 when we get to commercial lighting. 01:22:24.372 --> 01:22:25.205 And this is not a change, 01:22:25.205 --> 01:22:26.750 but I just also wanted to remind everyone 01:22:26.750 --> 01:22:29.010 that the residential HVAC tables, 01:22:29.010 --> 01:22:32.310 which make up probably over half of volume two 01:22:32.310 --> 01:22:35.200 in terms of volume or size, 01:22:35.200 --> 01:22:38.580 those tables are also available in a Excel spreadsheet form 01:22:38.580 --> 01:22:39.683 on Texas Efficiency. 01:22:44.380 --> 01:22:47.550 So moving on to volumes two and three, 01:22:47.550 --> 01:22:50.020 there were some high-level changes 01:22:50.020 --> 01:22:52.060 that were consistent across both. 01:22:52.060 --> 01:22:53.100 So I'll touch on those here 01:22:53.100 --> 01:22:55.250 rather than for each individual measure 01:22:55.250 --> 01:22:56.910 and consistently be repeating myself. 01:22:56.910 --> 01:23:01.143 But, we did a review of all of the, 01:23:02.120 --> 01:23:04.750 this was kind of following up on last year's update 01:23:04.750 --> 01:23:07.940 where we reviewed all the various aspects of each measure, 01:23:07.940 --> 01:23:09.500 including measure life. 01:23:09.500 --> 01:23:13.180 And for those, we have quite a few measures, 01:23:13.180 --> 01:23:14.930 maybe about a third of the measures in the TRM, 01:23:14.930 --> 01:23:18.000 refer to the database of Energy Efficiency Resources, 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:20.530 or DEER, for that value. 01:23:20.530 --> 01:23:22.570 And they've kind of consolidated all their reports 01:23:22.570 --> 01:23:26.700 into this software called the READI or READI tool. 01:23:26.700 --> 01:23:29.770 And so we verified all of those values 01:23:29.770 --> 01:23:33.440 against the latest and greatest that exists in that report. 01:23:33.440 --> 01:23:36.560 And then on the RUL side. 01:23:36.560 --> 01:23:39.420 So for measures that have an early retirement baseline 01:23:39.420 --> 01:23:40.950 where you're replacing the equipment 01:23:40.950 --> 01:23:43.660 before the end of its natural life, 01:23:43.660 --> 01:23:47.340 we have these tables that associate the age of the equipment 01:23:47.340 --> 01:23:49.825 with how many expected years that equipment 01:23:49.825 --> 01:23:52.950 would be expected to continue operating. 01:23:52.950 --> 01:23:57.250 And, but you're only eligible to use those tables 01:23:57.250 --> 01:23:58.990 for equipment that was installed 01:23:58.990 --> 01:24:00.890 after the current code existed. 01:24:00.890 --> 01:24:03.040 And so we have some formatting on each of these tables 01:24:03.040 --> 01:24:04.290 that has to be incremented annually, 01:24:04.290 --> 01:24:08.080 just to kind of clarify which years are eligible. 01:24:08.080 --> 01:24:10.760 And this will be an update that will happen consistently, 01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:13.200 but still something to pay attention to. 01:24:13.200 --> 01:24:14.033 We do, 01:24:15.090 --> 01:24:17.310 you might be wondering why we don't just get rid 01:24:17.310 --> 01:24:20.790 of the values for the years that are not eligible. 01:24:20.790 --> 01:24:22.350 We try to maintain those 01:24:22.350 --> 01:24:26.130 because at some point the code or standard will change 01:24:26.130 --> 01:24:27.110 and we don't want to have to go back 01:24:27.110 --> 01:24:28.310 and recreate those values. 01:24:28.310 --> 01:24:29.710 So they are still listed. 01:24:29.710 --> 01:24:32.260 They're just made ineligible 01:24:32.260 --> 01:24:34.110 through some formatting on the table. 01:24:37.180 --> 01:24:38.480 Okay. 01:24:38.480 --> 01:24:39.543 Residential lighting. 01:24:40.700 --> 01:24:42.170 So volume two in general, 01:24:42.170 --> 01:24:45.310 the residential volume went through quite a bit of changes 01:24:45.310 --> 01:24:48.810 last year in part due to the EM&V teams 01:24:48.810 --> 01:24:50.070 consumption analysis. 01:24:50.070 --> 01:24:54.603 This year, volume two didn't have as many changes, 01:24:54.603 --> 01:24:56.560 the kind of higher impact changes 01:24:56.560 --> 01:24:58.960 happened on the commercial volume, volume three. 01:25:00.103 --> 01:25:05.103 So, and for this measure, the lighting measure, 01:25:05.990 --> 01:25:09.570 the only changes were to the measure is, 01:25:09.570 --> 01:25:12.100 has always been focused around screw-in 01:25:12.100 --> 01:25:15.370 or plug-in lamps, LED lamps. 01:25:15.370 --> 01:25:17.900 And we just clarified that the methodology can also apply 01:25:17.900 --> 01:25:19.690 to integrated LED fixtures, 01:25:19.690 --> 01:25:22.460 something you see more on the new construction side 01:25:23.370 --> 01:25:25.080 and some new construction programs 01:25:25.080 --> 01:25:28.770 use the prescriptive savings from these individual measures. 01:25:28.770 --> 01:25:31.610 So that clarification was made. 01:25:31.610 --> 01:25:34.400 And then also, Laura mentioned the focus on midstream, 01:25:34.400 --> 01:25:36.520 especially in light of the pandemic. 01:25:36.520 --> 01:25:40.270 So there were some confusing changes. 01:25:40.270 --> 01:25:42.090 I think it's fair to say. 01:25:42.090 --> 01:25:46.040 Related to midstream lighting last year, 01:25:46.040 --> 01:25:51.040 we attempted to kind of improve the implementation 01:25:53.210 --> 01:25:55.160 or streamline the implementation 01:25:55.160 --> 01:25:56.860 between the residential and commercial measure. 01:25:56.860 --> 01:25:59.920 When you do midstream for certain lamps, 01:25:59.920 --> 01:26:03.202 you split your savings between residential and commercial. 01:26:03.202 --> 01:26:05.100 Cause you're not certain where that that lamp 01:26:05.100 --> 01:26:06.470 is being installed. 01:26:06.470 --> 01:26:09.310 And that methodology is discussed in detail in TRM, 01:26:09.310 --> 01:26:14.310 but the attempts to streamline that implementation last year 01:26:15.260 --> 01:26:16.093 was incomplete. 01:26:16.093 --> 01:26:19.030 So we, Tetra Tech issued a guidance memo 01:26:19.030 --> 01:26:21.853 kind of reverting back to the TRM 7.0 methodology. 01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:27.880 And this year, we didn't change anything 01:26:27.960 --> 01:26:29.660 relative to how the measures implemented, 01:26:29.660 --> 01:26:31.860 but we just removed some of that language 01:26:31.860 --> 01:26:33.430 that had been added last year 01:26:33.430 --> 01:26:38.210 to align with Tetra Tech's guidance and that EM&V memo. 01:26:38.210 --> 01:26:42.120 There are some more changes related to midstream, 01:26:42.120 --> 01:26:42.970 but that's, 01:26:42.970 --> 01:26:45.533 I'll talk about that when we get to the commercial slide. 01:26:48.830 --> 01:26:49.663 All right. 01:26:51.504 --> 01:26:53.623 So for HVAC there, 01:26:54.560 --> 01:26:56.260 I probably won't touch on some of these things. 01:26:56.260 --> 01:26:58.680 If it's just a unit correction, those are important. 01:26:58.680 --> 01:27:01.140 But I would just point out 01:27:01.140 --> 01:27:03.780 that when there are things like this, 01:27:03.780 --> 01:27:06.820 unit corrections that have a impact 01:27:06.820 --> 01:27:07.870 on the savings calculation, 01:27:07.870 --> 01:27:12.010 just because it's being updated in the TRM now 01:27:12.010 --> 01:27:13.870 doesn't mean that the savings were wrong last year. 01:27:13.870 --> 01:27:17.380 In most cases, these things are found early on 01:27:17.380 --> 01:27:20.270 when utilities are updating their databases 01:27:20.270 --> 01:27:21.820 and deemed savings calculations 01:27:23.042 --> 01:27:24.430 and they're corrected in real time, 01:27:24.430 --> 01:27:27.860 but those things are not worth issuing a new version 01:27:27.860 --> 01:27:29.018 to the TRM. 01:27:29.018 --> 01:27:31.730 So we flag those things for the next year's TRM updates. 01:27:31.730 --> 01:27:34.210 So whenever you see things like unit correction, 01:27:34.210 --> 01:27:37.650 that's just kind of some of that, those housekeeping items. 01:27:37.650 --> 01:27:41.633 And, for central AC and heat pumps, 01:27:42.530 --> 01:27:46.420 we've seen a growing issue more so with mini splits 01:27:46.420 --> 01:27:50.044 and you see here on the slide that the same updates 01:27:50.044 --> 01:27:51.733 were made to the mini-split measure, 01:27:51.733 --> 01:27:52.566 but we're seeing a growing issue 01:27:52.566 --> 01:27:54.510 where you have high seer systems 01:27:54.510 --> 01:27:56.640 or high part load efficiency systems 01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:00.380 that affect the energy savings calculation from the TRM, 01:28:00.380 --> 01:28:04.247 but they have EER or full load efficiency ratings 01:28:05.640 --> 01:28:07.150 that are not compliant 01:28:07.150 --> 01:28:10.293 with the minimum efficiency requirements from the TRM. 01:28:11.474 --> 01:28:16.070 And there is no EER code requirement. 01:28:16.070 --> 01:28:19.510 So, we did decide to go ahead and update the eligibility 01:28:19.510 --> 01:28:22.600 to say that if the system did not meet the TRM guidance 01:28:22.600 --> 01:28:23.980 for the minimum EER, 01:28:23.980 --> 01:28:26.070 that that would not make that system ineligible 01:28:26.070 --> 01:28:27.170 to claim savings. 01:28:27.170 --> 01:28:31.700 It just means that you're only able to claim energy savings, 01:28:31.700 --> 01:28:35.290 be it cooling or heating and winter demand savings, 01:28:35.290 --> 01:28:39.290 but you would not be eligible to claim summer demand savings 01:28:39.290 --> 01:28:43.063 unless it meets that minimum EER thresholds from the TRM. 01:28:45.130 --> 01:28:47.630 And the other clarification. 01:28:47.630 --> 01:28:51.280 So when you look at the HVAC tables, 01:28:51.280 --> 01:28:53.690 I mentioned that there's a large number of them, 01:28:53.690 --> 01:28:57.640 but they're specified based on the capacity 01:28:57.640 --> 01:29:01.230 of the system and the efficiency of the system. 01:29:01.230 --> 01:29:05.970 And so, the capacity we've gotten the question 01:29:05.970 --> 01:29:06.930 over the years about whether 01:29:06.930 --> 01:29:09.150 or not you're supposed to use cooling capacity 01:29:09.150 --> 01:29:09.983 for the cooling savings 01:29:09.983 --> 01:29:12.170 and heating capacity for the heating savings. 01:29:12.170 --> 01:29:13.720 But, we did clarify 01:29:13.720 --> 01:29:16.363 that you were supposed to use the cooling capacity 01:29:16.363 --> 01:29:17.990 for all of the savings, 01:29:17.990 --> 01:29:20.300 that adjustment for the difference between cooling 01:29:20.300 --> 01:29:22.350 and heating capacity already takes place 01:29:22.350 --> 01:29:25.163 within the deemed savings derivation. 01:29:29.760 --> 01:29:31.450 We also have a, 01:29:31.450 --> 01:29:35.713 a large capacity HVAC measure that applies to measures 01:29:35.713 --> 01:29:39.903 in systems that are sized regular 01:29:39.903 --> 01:29:41.810 than what you'd normally find in a typical home. 01:29:41.810 --> 01:29:44.890 So this is like 5.4 to up to 20 tons, 01:29:44.890 --> 01:29:47.090 probably not finding something that often 01:29:47.090 --> 01:29:48.230 near the 20 ton value, 01:29:48.230 --> 01:29:51.120 but we added, this measure applies 01:29:51.120 --> 01:29:52.930 to both standard AC and heat pump, 01:29:52.930 --> 01:29:55.435 but also to ground source heat pumps. 01:29:55.435 --> 01:29:57.120 So we added some coincidence factors 01:29:57.120 --> 01:30:00.860 to kind of allow that measure to apply for ground source. 01:30:00.860 --> 01:30:03.530 And then another kind of unique situation 01:30:03.530 --> 01:30:05.710 that came up with room ACs. 01:30:05.710 --> 01:30:07.120 We were finding some systems 01:30:07.120 --> 01:30:10.780 that were on the Energy Star qualified product listing, 01:30:10.780 --> 01:30:12.040 but did not seem to comply 01:30:12.040 --> 01:30:14.380 with the minimum efficiency requirements 01:30:14.380 --> 01:30:17.760 on Energy Star's spec and also in the TRM. 01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:19.340 And come to find out 01:30:19.340 --> 01:30:21.530 it was because there are certain systems 01:30:21.530 --> 01:30:23.840 that have what they call connected functionality, 01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:26.740 means they're tested for demand response capabilities. 01:30:26.740 --> 01:30:29.890 And if those systems have been tested in that way, 01:30:29.890 --> 01:30:33.770 they receive a 5% credit to their Energy Star qualification. 01:30:33.770 --> 01:30:36.360 So we added that additional tier 01:30:36.360 --> 01:30:38.260 so that those units would be eligible. 01:30:40.210 --> 01:30:44.110 And in the TRM, we like to focus mostly on savings, 01:30:44.110 --> 01:30:46.500 but we do occasionally get involved in, 01:30:46.500 --> 01:30:47.970 in further implementation guidance, 01:30:47.970 --> 01:30:52.180 especially if it's consistent for all applications 01:30:52.180 --> 01:30:53.013 of that measure. 01:30:53.013 --> 01:30:55.880 So for connected thermostats, smart thermostats, 01:30:55.880 --> 01:30:58.080 we did just add some guidance 01:30:58.080 --> 01:31:01.550 instructing against the use of emergency heat settings 01:31:01.550 --> 01:31:03.110 when installing a smart thermostat 01:31:03.110 --> 01:31:04.920 in combination with a heat pump. 01:31:04.920 --> 01:31:09.920 That's just to avoid additional heating consumption in, 01:31:11.850 --> 01:31:14.650 against the way that the system was designed to be used. 01:31:17.780 --> 01:31:20.470 All right, so the envelope measures. 01:31:20.470 --> 01:31:22.140 Ceiling installation was one of the measures 01:31:22.140 --> 01:31:25.193 that was most effected by last year's update. 01:31:26.610 --> 01:31:29.230 As part of the EM&V team's consumption analysis, 01:31:29.230 --> 01:31:31.850 they found that the TRM savings 01:31:31.850 --> 01:31:36.230 did not align with what they were seeing in the field 01:31:36.230 --> 01:31:38.840 for some of the lower R-value homes. 01:31:38.840 --> 01:31:41.970 And so, for those familiar with this measure, 01:31:41.970 --> 01:31:45.130 savings are specified for different bins 01:31:45.130 --> 01:31:46.523 of starting R-value. 01:31:47.543 --> 01:31:50.240 And we removed, in last year's update, 01:31:50.240 --> 01:31:55.100 we removed the R0 and R1 to four categories, 01:31:55.100 --> 01:31:57.060 and that meant that the lowest available baseline 01:31:57.060 --> 01:31:58.693 was R5 and up. 01:32:00.473 --> 01:32:03.270 And so it had a little bit of an unintended consequence 01:32:03.270 --> 01:32:07.400 where we saw a pretty dramatic decrease in participation 01:32:07.400 --> 01:32:11.120 among those homes that had the lowest insulation values, 01:32:11.120 --> 01:32:15.630 in part that's because contractors were finding it difficult 01:32:15.630 --> 01:32:20.370 to compensate themselves for the increased material 01:32:20.370 --> 01:32:23.750 that they would need to insulate those homes. 01:32:23.750 --> 01:32:28.470 So, because there's a little bit of a quirk 01:32:28.470 --> 01:32:31.050 with the way that the savings are modeled for the TRM, 01:32:31.050 --> 01:32:33.800 the lowest category is R5 to R8 01:32:33.800 --> 01:32:36.320 and those savings are modeled based on the midpoint 01:32:36.320 --> 01:32:37.787 of that range, so R6.5 01:32:38.800 --> 01:32:39.943 So since, 01:32:41.810 --> 01:32:44.150 it is still consistent with the EM&V findings 01:32:44.150 --> 01:32:48.220 to go down to R5, we established a new lower tier again, 01:32:48.220 --> 01:32:50.383 to apply to anything less than R5. 01:32:51.572 --> 01:32:53.090 Then it would be based on that R5 set point 01:32:53.090 --> 01:32:54.960 and therefore still be consistent 01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:57.470 with the consumption analysis findings. 01:32:57.470 --> 01:33:00.060 So that was added back. It was also extended. 01:33:00.060 --> 01:33:01.300 That same change was extended 01:33:01.300 --> 01:33:03.510 to the Attic Encapsulation Measure. 01:33:03.510 --> 01:33:06.570 And I'll skip forward briefly and just say, also, 01:33:06.570 --> 01:33:09.703 it will be extended to the Cool Roofs Measure. 01:33:09.703 --> 01:33:11.160 (indistinct talking in background) 01:33:11.160 --> 01:33:13.710 The cool, we don't always associate the Cool Roof Measure 01:33:13.710 --> 01:33:16.470 with the installation measures, 01:33:16.470 --> 01:33:18.800 but it does have that same dynamic 01:33:18.800 --> 01:33:21.600 where the savings vary based on starting R-value. 01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:24.150 And so that change is in progress right now. 01:33:24.150 --> 01:33:26.470 That's why I have it listed as pending, 01:33:26.470 --> 01:33:28.720 but that will be a part of the, 01:33:28.720 --> 01:33:31.930 the volumes that are distributed after EEIP. 01:33:31.930 --> 01:33:34.340 Can you say, I'm sorry, can you say one more time? 01:33:34.340 --> 01:33:39.310 So you're putting back the potential of starting at an R1, 01:33:39.310 --> 01:33:40.170 is that what you're doing? 01:33:40.170 --> 01:33:44.490 So what we found is that when these sections 01:33:44.490 --> 01:33:45.883 were removed from the TRM, 01:33:47.830 --> 01:33:50.120 a lot of times contractors were avoiding those, 01:33:50.120 --> 01:33:51.750 those homes entirely in part, 01:33:51.750 --> 01:33:53.690 because the savings were no longer. 01:33:53.690 --> 01:33:55.596 They weren't getting credit, so they weren't- 01:33:55.596 --> 01:33:57.230 Yeah, so they weren't gonna do it. 01:33:57.230 --> 01:33:59.290 And we did not go back 01:33:59.290 --> 01:34:01.550 and put the savings that were there before, 01:34:01.550 --> 01:34:03.893 because Tetra Tech's findings, 01:34:04.733 --> 01:34:07.240 that's part of their consumption analysis for those savings 01:34:07.240 --> 01:34:09.610 were not consistent with what they were seeing in the field. 01:34:09.610 --> 01:34:13.403 But, because that lowest range from last year's TRM 01:34:14.430 --> 01:34:17.141 was based on an R6.5, 01:34:17.141 --> 01:34:19.210 We were able to create a new lower tier 01:34:19.210 --> 01:34:20.600 that was higher than what the tiers 01:34:20.600 --> 01:34:21.820 that we had removed previously, 01:34:21.820 --> 01:34:24.520 but still offered an incremental improvement 01:34:24.520 --> 01:34:26.220 so that utilities can, 01:34:26.220 --> 01:34:28.570 the incentive rates are at the discretion of the utilities, 01:34:28.570 --> 01:34:32.530 but it may allow them to offer a slightly higher incentive 01:34:32.530 --> 01:34:34.890 for those lower categories and try to help, 01:34:34.890 --> 01:34:37.970 help get those homes that need the insulation the most 01:34:37.970 --> 01:34:40.640 so the, by participants in the program. 01:34:40.640 --> 01:34:41.473 Yeah, that seems like a good change. 01:34:41.473 --> 01:34:42.474 Yeah. 01:34:42.474 --> 01:34:43.307 (chuckles) 01:34:43.307 --> 01:34:44.757 Hopefully it has that effect. 01:34:45.890 --> 01:34:49.310 And then I think this is the only new measure 01:34:49.310 --> 01:34:51.630 on the residential side, but we added a, 01:34:51.630 --> 01:34:53.700 a measure for Low-E storm windows. 01:34:53.700 --> 01:34:55.170 These are not window replacements, 01:34:55.170 --> 01:34:59.430 they're added as attachments to existing windows, 01:34:59.430 --> 01:35:01.900 but that's a new measure that will be available 01:35:01.900 --> 01:35:02.763 for next year. 01:35:06.490 --> 01:35:07.723 Domestic hot water. 01:35:09.740 --> 01:35:12.300 So, I'll call this out for heat pump water heaters, 01:35:12.300 --> 01:35:15.720 but it really applies to any measure in the TRM. 01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:16.553 If there, 01:35:16.553 --> 01:35:18.740 if a measure does not have an early retirement baseline, 01:35:18.740 --> 01:35:22.180 it does not mean that you're not eligible to apply 01:35:22.180 --> 01:35:23.950 the deemed savings methodologies 01:35:23.950 --> 01:35:26.760 when you're replacing equipment that has not yet failed. 01:35:26.760 --> 01:35:27.820 So we just clarified here 01:35:27.820 --> 01:35:30.770 that when an early retirement baseline does exist, 01:35:30.770 --> 01:35:33.347 you're allowed to use the replace on burnout savings. 01:35:33.347 --> 01:35:34.550 And that definitely applies 01:35:34.550 --> 01:35:36.170 specifically to heat pump water heaters, 01:35:36.170 --> 01:35:37.920 but also any other measure 01:35:37.920 --> 01:35:41.020 that may not have an early retirement baseline. 01:35:41.020 --> 01:35:42.540 And then also pretty straightforward 01:35:42.540 --> 01:35:47.260 for these two showerhead temperature sensitive replacement, 01:35:47.260 --> 01:35:48.210 restrictor valves. 01:35:48.210 --> 01:35:50.060 That's what TSRV, I think stands for. 01:35:51.440 --> 01:35:56.440 We, the utilities were not implementing this measure 01:35:57.100 --> 01:35:58.010 to claim gas savings. 01:35:58.010 --> 01:36:00.320 We don't include gas savings in the TRM, 01:36:01.207 --> 01:36:02.920 but there was just an oversight 01:36:02.920 --> 01:36:03.940 in terms of the language here. 01:36:03.940 --> 01:36:06.160 So we went back and restricted this measure 01:36:06.160 --> 01:36:07.900 to only homes, or yeah, 01:36:07.900 --> 01:36:10.113 only to homes with electric hot water. 01:36:14.720 --> 01:36:17.603 All right. Appliances updates were pretty minor. 01:36:19.020 --> 01:36:20.330 Updated the Clothes Washer Measure 01:36:20.330 --> 01:36:22.810 to align with the current Energy Star calculator. 01:36:22.810 --> 01:36:26.830 We are always, we have several measures that are labeled 01:36:26.830 --> 01:36:28.010 as Energy Star measures. 01:36:28.010 --> 01:36:30.920 So we're always monitoring the Energy Star specifications 01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:32.130 and the calculators, 01:36:32.130 --> 01:36:34.260 usually when it makes it a little difficult, 01:36:34.260 --> 01:36:37.370 because usually when a specification is updated, 01:36:37.370 --> 01:36:42.170 the calculator updates follow a year or so later. 01:36:42.170 --> 01:36:44.340 So I'm always monitoring those. 01:36:44.340 --> 01:36:47.240 And there was a change made for clothes washers this year. 01:36:48.091 --> 01:36:51.000 A couple more unit corrections on pool pumps 01:36:51.000 --> 01:36:53.210 and refrigerator recycling. 01:36:53.210 --> 01:36:55.253 And then for advanced power strips, 01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:59.300 as part of last year's comprehensive update, 01:36:59.300 --> 01:37:00.580 one of the things we were trying to do 01:37:00.580 --> 01:37:03.730 is make sure that all of the measures in the TRM 01:37:03.730 --> 01:37:06.250 were consistent with the current peak definition, 01:37:06.250 --> 01:37:07.570 and this was one of the stragglers. 01:37:07.570 --> 01:37:12.450 And so we went ahead and updated some of those values 01:37:12.450 --> 01:37:14.980 that had a minor effect on the winter demand 01:37:14.980 --> 01:37:16.713 for advanced power strips. 01:37:19.690 --> 01:37:21.973 All right. That's it for residential. 01:37:22.920 --> 01:37:26.840 Transitioning into the commercial volume lighting 01:37:26.840 --> 01:37:29.400 is a measure that receives a high focus every year, 01:37:29.400 --> 01:37:31.993 delivers a lot of savings to the utility programs. 01:37:34.550 --> 01:37:37.540 The Standard Wattage Table that I mentioned before 01:37:37.540 --> 01:37:42.200 underwent, this is a listing of fixture codes 01:37:42.200 --> 01:37:44.610 that relate to a certain type of fixture 01:37:44.610 --> 01:37:46.430 that that may be a baseline fixture, 01:37:46.430 --> 01:37:49.410 something that's being taken out or an efficiency measure, 01:37:49.410 --> 01:37:52.310 something that typically an LED that's being installed. 01:37:52.310 --> 01:37:56.660 And so we associate different configurations with deemed 01:37:56.660 --> 01:37:58.530 or assumed wattage. 01:37:58.530 --> 01:38:02.380 And so I mentioned that a lot of the utilities 01:38:02.380 --> 01:38:06.063 utilize the same calculator, but for those that don't, 01:38:08.603 --> 01:38:11.820 and really just for any anyone who wants to quickly access 01:38:11.820 --> 01:38:14.850 and understand what wattage's may be associated 01:38:14.850 --> 01:38:16.660 with these different fixture types. 01:38:16.660 --> 01:38:18.750 We made this table available 01:38:18.750 --> 01:38:20.443 on the Texas Efficiency website. 01:38:23.560 --> 01:38:28.513 And the DLC, for commercial a lot of the products 01:38:29.730 --> 01:38:34.730 are there, energy performance is verified by a group 01:38:35.530 --> 01:38:38.870 called VLC Design Lights Consortium, 01:38:38.870 --> 01:38:41.640 and they're in the process of updating their QPL, 01:38:41.640 --> 01:38:43.410 their Qualified Product Listing. 01:38:43.410 --> 01:38:47.640 And so we just add guidance about several unique scenarios 01:38:47.640 --> 01:38:52.390 that may be affected by these frequent changes to these, 01:38:52.390 --> 01:38:53.390 these types of QPLs. 01:38:54.250 --> 01:38:57.270 One may be the products are listed at one point in time 01:38:57.270 --> 01:38:59.940 when a project may be starting, 01:38:59.940 --> 01:39:02.030 and whenever they're going through the design 01:39:02.030 --> 01:39:05.380 of that project, only to be D-listed later. 01:39:05.380 --> 01:39:07.600 So guidance about how to handle that. 01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:09.940 Model numbers that might have slight variances 01:39:09.940 --> 01:39:12.853 that don't affect the performance of the fixture, 01:39:14.092 --> 01:39:16.660 and also fixtures that may be tested and qualified 01:39:16.660 --> 01:39:17.493 for one lane, 01:39:17.493 --> 01:39:21.360 but may also be available in other incremented the length. 01:39:21.360 --> 01:39:24.743 So just providing guidance for those scenarios. 01:39:27.362 --> 01:39:30.230 And one thing that we did not address in the TRM, 01:39:30.230 --> 01:39:32.970 but I will touch on it cause it fits this category. 01:39:32.970 --> 01:39:35.950 Tetra Tech released a guidance memo recently 01:39:35.950 --> 01:39:38.970 because the DLCQPL in particular 01:39:38.970 --> 01:39:40.130 is in the process of being updated. 01:39:40.130 --> 01:39:43.670 They have a scenario right now where there's differences 01:39:43.670 --> 01:39:45.670 between parent and child products. 01:39:45.670 --> 01:39:50.020 So the parent products have tested, 01:39:50.020 --> 01:39:52.900 both reported and tested wattage's listed currently, 01:39:52.900 --> 01:39:55.890 but the child products only have the reported values. 01:39:55.890 --> 01:39:57.183 So in the meantime, 01:39:58.171 --> 01:39:59.770 if we have any contractors on the phone that aren't, 01:39:59.770 --> 01:40:01.070 aren't certain about this, 01:40:02.650 --> 01:40:04.830 you can use the reported values 01:40:04.830 --> 01:40:09.623 until the DLC finishes updating their QPL. 01:40:13.400 --> 01:40:17.060 These last things were just adding citations 01:40:17.060 --> 01:40:20.190 and making some clarifications on the table. 01:40:20.190 --> 01:40:21.050 Excuse me, Derek? 01:40:21.050 --> 01:40:22.480 Yes. 01:40:22.480 --> 01:40:24.860 The guidance on the model number variations 01:40:24.860 --> 01:40:27.410 for lighting, I could see that being useful 01:40:27.410 --> 01:40:30.280 for other similar sort of scenarios, 01:40:30.280 --> 01:40:32.640 is the guidance there sort of applicable 01:40:32.640 --> 01:40:36.270 to other measures that have variances in the model numbers 01:40:36.270 --> 01:40:38.840 where, you know, nine tenths of the model numbers the same, 01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:41.573 but there's some suffix that's a G instead of an H. 01:40:43.180 --> 01:40:44.060 Probably, yes. 01:40:44.060 --> 01:40:45.640 But it would be difficult to say for sure, 01:40:45.640 --> 01:40:47.693 unless we knew the specific scenario. 01:40:48.620 --> 01:40:50.230 I would, I would think that 01:40:52.440 --> 01:40:53.980 the decision would be the same 01:40:53.980 --> 01:40:55.430 if presented with that type of scenario, 01:40:55.430 --> 01:40:57.530 this is just the one that we see more often, 01:40:57.530 --> 01:40:59.690 because it's the measure that receives the highest focus. 01:40:59.690 --> 01:41:04.020 But, I would just say reach out to EUMMAT or Tetra Tech 01:41:04.020 --> 01:41:06.870 and just find out for sure if that's, if that's the case, 01:41:06.870 --> 01:41:08.370 we'll get something in writing. 01:41:08.370 --> 01:41:10.720 And also, just whenever there's things like this 01:41:10.720 --> 01:41:14.550 that come up, especially among implementation, 01:41:14.550 --> 01:41:17.637 it's something that's somewhat separate from the TRM 01:41:17.637 --> 01:41:19.780 and we don't always understand how these measures 01:41:19.780 --> 01:41:21.590 are gonna be applied in the field. 01:41:21.590 --> 01:41:24.120 So get that feedback is very valuable to us 01:41:24.120 --> 01:41:27.100 and we can flag those things and get them clarified. 01:41:27.100 --> 01:41:28.530 So you don't even have to worry about asking. 01:41:28.530 --> 01:41:31.520 It's written in the TRM and you can can point to it 01:41:31.520 --> 01:41:32.620 at the end of the day, so. 01:41:32.620 --> 01:41:33.523 Perfect. Thanks. 01:41:35.640 --> 01:41:36.964 All right. 01:41:36.964 --> 01:41:39.320 So the last thing with commercial lighting, 01:41:39.320 --> 01:41:43.340 I mentioned that there's some interactive effects 01:41:43.340 --> 01:41:46.880 between residential and commercial for midstream, 01:41:46.880 --> 01:41:51.060 especially for the lower wattage lamps, 01:41:51.060 --> 01:41:53.610 lamps with an equivalent wattage less than a hundred Watts 01:41:53.610 --> 01:41:58.150 that are more often seen in residential applications, 01:41:58.150 --> 01:42:01.920 but may sometimes get installed in commercial facilities. 01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:06.520 So we, but in general, 01:42:06.520 --> 01:42:08.780 the update to the commercial measure's the same 01:42:08.780 --> 01:42:10.380 as for the residential, we went, 01:42:11.580 --> 01:42:15.460 we attempted to make some streamlined, 01:42:15.460 --> 01:42:17.170 some changes to streamlined implementation 01:42:17.170 --> 01:42:18.700 in last year's update 01:42:18.700 --> 01:42:21.160 that ended up being reverted back to TRM 7.0 01:42:21.160 --> 01:42:24.660 as part of last year's Tetra Tech guidance memo, 01:42:24.660 --> 01:42:27.810 but, there are some changes in this year's update. 01:42:27.810 --> 01:42:31.140 One, is we had a specific baseline 01:42:32.210 --> 01:42:35.180 previously specified for reflector and directional lamps. 01:42:35.180 --> 01:42:37.060 That's being replaced by guidance 01:42:37.060 --> 01:42:41.490 just to refer to the whatever qualified product listing 01:42:41.490 --> 01:42:45.313 you use for product, refer to that equivalent wattage. 01:42:46.695 --> 01:42:49.404 And that, it just kind of eliminates a few steps 01:42:49.404 --> 01:42:51.950 that were involved in the older process. 01:42:51.950 --> 01:42:56.390 We also consolidated a few categories of lamp type 01:42:56.390 --> 01:42:59.280 to just have fewer options to make it a little bit easier 01:42:59.280 --> 01:43:01.610 to map those to the right savings. 01:43:01.610 --> 01:43:05.980 And there was an operating hours update to outdoor lighting 01:43:05.980 --> 01:43:09.270 that had happened in the main table for the deemed savings 01:43:09.270 --> 01:43:13.190 that had not been extended to the midstream values yet. 01:43:13.190 --> 01:43:14.690 So that change was made there. 01:43:16.880 --> 01:43:18.223 For lighting controls, 01:43:20.090 --> 01:43:21.840 we just added language to make it clear 01:43:21.840 --> 01:43:25.215 that the control savings were not applicable 01:43:25.215 --> 01:43:29.040 in to new construction scenarios where occupancy sensors 01:43:29.040 --> 01:43:31.090 are already required by code, 01:43:31.090 --> 01:43:33.670 but that you could claim savings for the incremental savings 01:43:33.670 --> 01:43:38.490 between occupancy sensors and perhaps another control type 01:43:38.490 --> 01:43:41.350 that has a deemed savings factor. 01:43:41.350 --> 01:43:43.680 That's exceeds that of an occupancy sensor. 01:43:43.680 --> 01:43:46.670 So again, in many cases control savings 01:43:46.670 --> 01:43:48.970 won't be applicable in new construction, 01:43:48.970 --> 01:43:50.650 unless you have a control type 01:43:50.650 --> 01:43:52.690 that has been deemed to achieve savings, 01:43:52.690 --> 01:43:54.863 exceeding that of an occupancy sensor. 01:44:01.070 --> 01:44:06.070 So, on HVAC, we had already made a change. 01:44:06.690 --> 01:44:07.610 I don't know if it was last year, 01:44:07.610 --> 01:44:10.773 but it was in one of the recent updates for heat pumps. 01:44:12.100 --> 01:44:15.250 There, the baseline tables in these measures, 01:44:15.250 --> 01:44:17.880 especially with the addition of early retirement can, 01:44:17.880 --> 01:44:20.720 can be pretty large and it makes it more difficult 01:44:20.720 --> 01:44:23.660 to determine exactly what baseline efficiency you should use 01:44:23.660 --> 01:44:25.020 in the deemed savings calculation. 01:44:25.020 --> 01:44:26.330 So for heat pumps, 01:44:26.330 --> 01:44:28.570 we tried to eliminate one of those factors, 01:44:28.570 --> 01:44:30.320 which was the heating section type. 01:44:30.320 --> 01:44:33.900 And we are assuming an electric resistance heating section 01:44:33.900 --> 01:44:35.830 type for all of those systems. 01:44:35.830 --> 01:44:38.320 And we did something similar for ACs this year 01:44:38.320 --> 01:44:40.670 to assume the all other heating section type, 01:44:40.670 --> 01:44:42.980 just eliminate one data point 01:44:42.980 --> 01:44:46.530 that that might be a little bit more difficult to validate 01:44:46.530 --> 01:44:49.130 if you're not getting that information in the field. 01:44:50.370 --> 01:44:51.900 And then somewhere related to lighting, 01:44:51.900 --> 01:44:54.780 we incorporated some midstream guidance. 01:44:54.780 --> 01:44:58.510 Again, we expect midstream to be more of a focus 01:44:58.510 --> 01:44:59.760 for utilities moving forward. 01:44:59.760 --> 01:45:03.190 So trying to add that to various measures. 01:45:03.190 --> 01:45:07.980 And again, midstream means you give a retailer. 01:45:07.980 --> 01:45:11.213 Or a distributor that the rebate will go- 01:45:11.213 --> 01:45:12.046 The rebate goes to them. 01:45:12.046 --> 01:45:13.100 And it encourages them 01:45:13.100 --> 01:45:15.710 to sell higher efficiency equipment. 01:45:15.710 --> 01:45:16.543 Okay. 01:45:19.050 --> 01:45:21.210 And chillers and PTACS 01:45:23.230 --> 01:45:27.180 follow very closely along with the split end package, 01:45:27.180 --> 01:45:28.430 AC and Heat Pump Measure. 01:45:29.726 --> 01:45:31.000 So very similar changes were made there as well. 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:36.000 I think the one I skipped over here is that we, 01:45:36.140 --> 01:45:37.500 you're not always, when you're, 01:45:37.500 --> 01:45:40.350 when you're dealing with an early retirement project, 01:45:40.350 --> 01:45:42.700 you're not always able to determine the age of the system 01:45:42.700 --> 01:45:43.533 in the field. 01:45:43.533 --> 01:45:45.870 Maybe a name plate is illegible or something like that, 01:45:45.870 --> 01:45:50.763 but we just provide a guidance that in those cases, 01:45:51.700 --> 01:45:53.460 you can assume that the age of the equipment 01:45:53.460 --> 01:45:55.640 is equal to the measure life 01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:58.130 for whichever these measures that you might be looking at. 01:45:58.130 --> 01:46:00.360 And that's consistent with some changes 01:46:00.360 --> 01:46:02.510 that have had already been incorporated into volume two 01:46:02.510 --> 01:46:04.360 for some of the residential measures. 01:46:08.070 --> 01:46:08.903 All right. 01:46:10.830 --> 01:46:15.533 This computer room AC measure or crack units, 01:46:16.550 --> 01:46:17.750 and also I'll skip down 01:46:17.750 --> 01:46:19.900 to the small commercial evaporative cooling. 01:46:19.900 --> 01:46:23.710 We found that there are variations 01:46:23.710 --> 01:46:26.550 in terms of how the equipment is rated 01:46:26.550 --> 01:46:28.343 specifically for the crack units. 01:46:29.370 --> 01:46:34.370 The capacity might, is we're finding more where the systems, 01:46:35.170 --> 01:46:37.800 system capacity is rated in KW, but the, 01:46:37.800 --> 01:46:41.460 the deemed savings methodology was set up for a capacity 01:46:41.460 --> 01:46:42.460 in a different unit. 01:46:42.460 --> 01:46:45.250 So added some conversion factors there 01:46:45.250 --> 01:46:48.270 just to make it clear how to determine those savings. 01:46:48.270 --> 01:46:50.640 And for small commercial evaporative cooling 01:46:50.640 --> 01:46:51.530 something similar, 01:46:51.530 --> 01:46:54.648 whether you're looking at tons or BTU hours. 01:46:54.648 --> 01:46:55.481 And then on the efficiency side, 01:46:55.481 --> 01:46:59.017 whether you're talking about KW per ton or IEER, EER, 01:47:01.950 --> 01:47:04.170 just making sure that it's clear how to convert 01:47:04.170 --> 01:47:07.233 between units, depending on which system type you're using. 01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:10.793 HVAC VFDs. 01:47:12.645 --> 01:47:15.750 What we did here is we kind of reviewed 01:47:15.750 --> 01:47:18.480 and corrected the operating schedules 01:47:18.480 --> 01:47:19.520 for all the building types, 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:23.440 but then also expanded the list of available offerings, 01:47:23.440 --> 01:47:24.940 building type offerings 01:47:24.940 --> 01:47:28.029 to be more consistent with the commercial HVAC measures. 01:47:28.029 --> 01:47:30.920 Also, just to make it easier for contractors 01:47:30.920 --> 01:47:34.360 who may be participating in both measures to, 01:47:34.360 --> 01:47:36.300 to be able to determine the building type, 01:47:36.300 --> 01:47:39.020 as I don't want to speak for Tetra Tech. 01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:41.460 But I think a lot of times that leads to differences 01:47:41.460 --> 01:47:43.630 in between reported and evaluated savings 01:47:43.630 --> 01:47:45.980 is just not getting that building type correct. 01:47:47.250 --> 01:47:49.410 And I didn't mention it on the slide, it's not a change. 01:47:49.410 --> 01:47:51.860 But we do try to provide tables now 01:47:51.860 --> 01:47:54.100 that give better descriptions 01:47:54.100 --> 01:47:56.130 of what these building types are. 01:47:56.130 --> 01:47:58.510 Might give an idea for square footage associated 01:47:58.510 --> 01:47:59.720 with certain type of building type, 01:47:59.720 --> 01:48:01.870 rather than just calling it small or large, 01:48:01.870 --> 01:48:04.410 and then also providing some examples, 01:48:04.410 --> 01:48:06.680 so you know what might fall into a certain category. 01:48:06.680 --> 01:48:08.563 So that exists in the TRM 01:48:08.563 --> 01:48:11.120 and is also incorporated into a lot of the calculators 01:48:11.120 --> 01:48:12.723 that the utilities will use. 01:48:17.267 --> 01:48:19.150 Did we cover, oh, and the last thing here 01:48:19.150 --> 01:48:20.160 is there's a new measure 01:48:20.160 --> 01:48:22.210 for small commercial evaporative cooling. 01:48:23.290 --> 01:48:26.510 This is something that really only applies to our West 01:48:26.510 --> 01:48:29.400 and Northern climate zones, but it is a new, 01:48:29.400 --> 01:48:31.080 new measure that's available 01:48:31.080 --> 01:48:33.810 to help prevent the installation of refrigerated cooling 01:48:33.810 --> 01:48:35.313 in those climate zones. 01:48:39.860 --> 01:48:41.160 Yes. 01:48:41.160 --> 01:48:41.993 Where that begins, 01:48:41.993 --> 01:48:43.870 as you move west where that account kicks in. 01:48:43.870 --> 01:48:47.190 So it's only specified for climate zone one and five. 01:48:47.190 --> 01:48:49.160 So for climate zone five, that's the west, 01:48:49.160 --> 01:48:52.570 that's just El Paso and I think it's El Paso County 01:48:52.570 --> 01:48:55.140 and then maybe one or two other counties 01:48:55.140 --> 01:48:59.147 bordering on the east side of that county. 01:48:59.147 --> 01:49:01.354 Okay. And then it will go in the middle of zone one, 01:49:01.354 --> 01:49:02.647 or does it? 01:49:02.647 --> 01:49:04.154 Yeah, so I think that's on zone one, 01:49:04.154 --> 01:49:04.987 so it would apply there. 01:49:04.987 --> 01:49:06.810 We don't see it as often but if it, 01:49:06.810 --> 01:49:08.330 so utility in that area 01:49:08.330 --> 01:49:09.770 may not be focusing on that as much, 01:49:09.770 --> 01:49:11.690 but certainly if you come across it, 01:49:11.690 --> 01:49:14.197 something that they might be interested in hearing about, 01:49:14.197 --> 01:49:16.687 and it will be available in the TRA. 01:49:16.687 --> 01:49:18.270 Thank you. 01:49:19.900 --> 01:49:21.833 So window treatments, the, 01:49:23.110 --> 01:49:25.073 last year's update, we kind of, 01:49:26.810 --> 01:49:29.660 for this measure of the update was happening in stages, 01:49:29.660 --> 01:49:31.640 we're moving away from a factor 01:49:31.640 --> 01:49:32.810 that's kind of being retired, 01:49:32.810 --> 01:49:34.130 the shading coefficient factor, 01:49:34.130 --> 01:49:36.380 moving to solar heat gain coefficient. 01:49:36.380 --> 01:49:38.870 In last year's update, we had a conversion from, 01:49:38.870 --> 01:49:43.610 from SC to SHGC, and this year is up there. 01:49:43.610 --> 01:49:44.537 We've removed that conversion 01:49:44.537 --> 01:49:47.640 and we've just moved to a direct citation 01:49:47.640 --> 01:49:49.343 for the SHGC values. 01:49:51.330 --> 01:49:54.070 The majority of the work in the commercial volume 01:49:54.070 --> 01:49:58.521 happened on the food service and refrigeration measures. 01:49:58.521 --> 01:50:00.270 So it's kind of funny that on this and the next slide, 01:50:00.270 --> 01:50:03.300 I boil it down into just a couple of bullets for, 01:50:03.300 --> 01:50:07.940 for these sections that had 10 plus measures on them. 01:50:07.940 --> 01:50:11.610 But the changes were all pretty consistent 01:50:11.610 --> 01:50:13.983 across all of them for food service. 01:50:16.220 --> 01:50:20.120 Most of these updates were related to following updates 01:50:20.120 --> 01:50:22.240 that that happened in the Energy Star calculator 01:50:22.240 --> 01:50:24.200 in March of this year. 01:50:24.200 --> 01:50:25.900 And then there was also an amendment that happened 01:50:25.900 --> 01:50:28.530 in that calculator in July. 01:50:28.530 --> 01:50:30.820 So, like I said, we're always continuously monitoring, 01:50:30.820 --> 01:50:32.580 even if we have to make a change 01:50:32.580 --> 01:50:34.650 in the middle of the TRM update schedule, 01:50:34.650 --> 01:50:39.650 but we did make comprehensive updates 01:50:39.880 --> 01:50:41.540 to pretty much all the food service measures 01:50:41.540 --> 01:50:43.550 to align with these calculator updates 01:50:44.430 --> 01:50:47.610 and then updated the terminology for consistency 01:50:47.610 --> 01:50:49.047 across the measures. 01:50:49.047 --> 01:50:53.280 And in part that's to help encourage the installation 01:50:53.280 --> 01:50:54.623 of multiple measures, 01:50:55.730 --> 01:50:57.910 something that we're always interested in seeing, 01:50:57.910 --> 01:50:59.930 multiple measures at the same site. 01:50:59.930 --> 01:51:01.133 And also this is, 01:51:02.590 --> 01:51:04.640 these measures lend themselves well 01:51:04.640 --> 01:51:07.140 to midstream type delivery. 01:51:07.140 --> 01:51:10.490 And that way, if you have a distributor 01:51:10.490 --> 01:51:13.100 that's now dealing with multiple system types, 01:51:13.100 --> 01:51:15.790 making sure that the measures are easily understood 01:51:15.790 --> 01:51:17.350 moving from one to the next. 01:51:17.350 --> 01:51:20.120 So making sure that that terminology aligns 01:51:20.120 --> 01:51:22.143 across all those food service measures. 01:51:24.990 --> 01:51:27.980 Where I guess a couple of individual updates 01:51:27.980 --> 01:51:30.420 that I called out here on ovens, 01:51:30.420 --> 01:51:32.620 making a change to match the Energy Star specs, 01:51:32.620 --> 01:51:34.740 specification combination ovens. 01:51:34.740 --> 01:51:36.710 And then on pre-rinse spray valves, 01:51:36.710 --> 01:51:38.220 this is another example of a measure 01:51:38.220 --> 01:51:42.610 that did not necessarily get the same attention 01:51:42.610 --> 01:51:46.192 in last year's comprehensive update as the rest of the TRM. 01:51:46.192 --> 01:51:48.960 So, you'll see this on a couple other measures here, 01:51:48.960 --> 01:51:50.710 moving forward. 01:51:50.710 --> 01:51:53.000 Some of these that were left off 01:51:53.000 --> 01:51:56.210 mostly because we ran out of time last year, 01:51:56.210 --> 01:51:57.540 were finished in this year's update. 01:51:57.540 --> 01:52:00.440 So just a general review of all the savings algorithms, 01:52:00.440 --> 01:52:02.630 especially if it's a measure that was older, 01:52:02.630 --> 01:52:06.320 that that may have studies that are no longer accessible, 01:52:06.320 --> 01:52:08.060 replacing some of those input assumptions 01:52:08.060 --> 01:52:10.410 to make sure that everything is clearly defined 01:52:10.410 --> 01:52:14.550 and transparent as far as how the savings are derived. 01:52:14.550 --> 01:52:16.880 And then also updating peak demand coefficients 01:52:16.880 --> 01:52:19.030 to comply with the current peak definition. 01:52:24.290 --> 01:52:27.760 So this, that's also true of all the refrigeration measures. 01:52:27.760 --> 01:52:31.610 These are measures that I think have been around 01:52:31.610 --> 01:52:33.580 since one of the earlier volumes of the TRM 01:52:33.580 --> 01:52:36.220 hadn't been touched since then. 01:52:36.220 --> 01:52:40.800 And so, we were not able to find all of the studies 01:52:40.800 --> 01:52:42.440 that were used to derive the savings initially, 01:52:42.440 --> 01:52:44.130 that's part of why these measures 01:52:44.130 --> 01:52:46.230 were pushed to this year's update. 01:52:46.230 --> 01:52:49.020 So we completed that analysis in the interim 01:52:49.020 --> 01:52:51.803 and made those changes in this year's TRM update. 01:52:52.890 --> 01:52:55.660 And they're all very similar to each other. 01:52:55.660 --> 01:52:58.690 They rely on a lot of the same coefficients. 01:52:58.690 --> 01:53:02.920 There was one exception, the first strip curtains. 01:53:02.920 --> 01:53:06.850 This was a measure that relied on an M&V study. 01:53:06.850 --> 01:53:10.090 And now that those savings have been replaced 01:53:10.090 --> 01:53:12.570 by a similar methodology that's used 01:53:12.570 --> 01:53:14.670 in all these other refrigeration measures. 01:53:15.930 --> 01:53:19.880 And I guess more of a minor update 01:53:19.880 --> 01:53:22.990 to clarify the units for zero-energy doors 01:53:22.990 --> 01:53:24.980 specifying that those savings should be per door 01:53:24.980 --> 01:53:26.570 instead of per linear foot. 01:53:26.570 --> 01:53:29.647 Easy change in the TRM, but could make a, 01:53:30.550 --> 01:53:32.740 it's an important change to help prevent overstating 01:53:32.740 --> 01:53:33.753 of those savings. 01:53:37.320 --> 01:53:41.380 Hot water, this is a new section to the TRM, 01:53:41.380 --> 01:53:43.870 but it does not actually include any new measures. 01:53:43.870 --> 01:53:47.920 These are all measures that existed in the next section, 01:53:47.920 --> 01:53:49.440 the miscellaneous section, 01:53:49.440 --> 01:53:50.860 but we kind of just called these out 01:53:50.860 --> 01:53:53.540 as we're starting to see more hot water measures 01:53:53.540 --> 01:53:55.330 in the commercial volume, 01:53:55.330 --> 01:53:56.580 just wanted to put those in a section 01:53:56.580 --> 01:53:58.920 where it's easier to find them. 01:53:58.920 --> 01:54:00.940 The one change for the TSRV 01:54:02.072 --> 01:54:03.000 that I touched on on the residential side, 01:54:03.000 --> 01:54:04.560 the same change was made from commercial 01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:06.500 to restrict those to, 01:54:06.500 --> 01:54:10.190 I have homes here because I copied the bullets 01:54:10.190 --> 01:54:11.320 from the residential slide, 01:54:11.320 --> 01:54:13.780 but restricting this to buildings. 01:54:13.780 --> 01:54:14.613 In most cases, 01:54:14.613 --> 01:54:19.070 I think this is targeting lodging applications. 01:54:19.070 --> 01:54:23.570 So restricting this to hotels and things of that nature 01:54:23.570 --> 01:54:25.433 that had only electric water heating. 01:54:26.530 --> 01:54:28.360 I'm sorry, DHW? Sorry. 01:54:28.360 --> 01:54:30.080 Domestic hot water. 01:54:30.080 --> 01:54:30.913 Yeah. 01:54:30.913 --> 01:54:33.448 Sorry, I get used to all these acronyms 01:54:33.448 --> 01:54:35.813 and try to define some of them, but I forgot others. 01:54:38.870 --> 01:54:41.699 This is the last section in volume three, 01:54:41.699 --> 01:54:46.470 pretty minor updates to these measures listed on the screen. 01:54:46.470 --> 01:54:50.600 I'll skip past the first two, but PC power management. 01:54:50.600 --> 01:54:54.363 This was, again, an example of updating the, 01:54:55.569 --> 01:54:56.402 the peak demand coefficients 01:54:56.402 --> 01:54:59.650 for compliance with the current definition. 01:54:59.650 --> 01:55:03.210 I think at this point, y'all, won't have to hear me 01:55:03.210 --> 01:55:05.070 continue to say that year after year. 01:55:05.070 --> 01:55:07.923 I think we have all of them done except for one, 01:55:08.849 --> 01:55:13.020 and that's a measure that's not implemented as frequently 01:55:13.020 --> 01:55:14.840 and relies on some modeling. 01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:17.740 So that's something we'll turn our attention to next year. 01:55:18.580 --> 01:55:22.080 And then, the electric vehicle supply equipment, 01:55:22.080 --> 01:55:25.233 electric chargers, EV chargers. 01:55:26.090 --> 01:55:28.820 This measure was, when it was added to the commercial volume 01:55:28.820 --> 01:55:31.200 was based on the residential version. 01:55:31.200 --> 01:55:33.390 So it had some documentation requirements 01:55:33.390 --> 01:55:35.530 that didn't really make sense for the commercial measure. 01:55:35.530 --> 01:55:37.050 We got rid of those this year. 01:55:37.050 --> 01:55:39.190 And those are mostly related to collecting things 01:55:39.190 --> 01:55:42.080 like vehicle type or the number of miles driven per day. 01:55:42.080 --> 01:55:45.090 Something that's pretty much impossible for a commercial 01:55:45.090 --> 01:55:46.683 or a multi-family application. 01:55:49.020 --> 01:55:53.423 And then lastly, we have four new measures in this section, 01:55:55.410 --> 01:55:58.750 mostly targeting manufacturing or industrial applications, 01:55:58.750 --> 01:56:01.920 but we have VFDs for water pumping, 01:56:01.920 --> 01:56:04.110 very similar to the HVAC VFD measure, 01:56:04.110 --> 01:56:07.100 but for water pumping applications. 01:56:07.100 --> 01:56:09.190 We have a steam trap repair and replacement, 01:56:09.190 --> 01:56:10.970 which is pretty self-explanatory. 01:56:10.970 --> 01:56:13.930 And then we have two measures, hydraulic gear lubricants 01:56:13.930 --> 01:56:15.310 and hydraulic oils. 01:56:15.310 --> 01:56:18.130 These are measures that just target efficiency improvements 01:56:18.130 --> 01:56:20.570 through eliminating or minimize, 01:56:20.570 --> 01:56:22.573 not eliminating but minimizing friction, 01:56:23.650 --> 01:56:26.253 in some of these more industrial applications. 01:56:29.940 --> 01:56:34.663 And then lastly volume four, the M&V protocols volume. 01:56:36.110 --> 01:56:39.130 Have just a few kind of high-level things to point out here, 01:56:39.130 --> 01:56:40.720 we increase the EUL 01:56:40.720 --> 01:56:42.750 for ground source heat pumps from 15 to 20 01:56:42.750 --> 01:56:45.450 to align with the ground source heat pump measure 01:56:45.450 --> 01:56:49.830 that's already available in volume two. 01:56:49.830 --> 01:56:54.360 We added a few sections to the reference home 01:56:54.360 --> 01:56:56.790 in residential new construction relating to Commissioning 01:56:56.790 --> 01:56:58.353 and dehumidification. 01:56:59.740 --> 01:57:04.740 Res and non-res solar PV updated modeling instructions. 01:57:04.860 --> 01:57:08.230 As we get more used to this transition 01:57:08.230 --> 01:57:11.900 where previously we had deemed savings, 01:57:11.900 --> 01:57:15.010 and now we've transitioned to using this software PV Watts 01:57:15.010 --> 01:57:17.640 that allows us to get more accurate savings 01:57:17.640 --> 01:57:19.493 for specific sites. 01:57:20.608 --> 01:57:21.890 And so just continuing to improve that measure 01:57:21.890 --> 01:57:24.710 to make sure people have a good understanding 01:57:24.710 --> 01:57:26.460 about how to utilize that software. 01:57:27.800 --> 01:57:31.980 We had a few measures where there was no UL specified. 01:57:31.980 --> 01:57:34.050 So we went ahead and filled in that gap. 01:57:34.050 --> 01:57:35.830 Solar shingles is an example of that. 01:57:35.830 --> 01:57:37.973 So we established a 20 year UL. 01:57:38.810 --> 01:57:40.470 Solar attic fans is a measure 01:57:40.470 --> 01:57:42.390 that's been on a bit of a roller coaster ride 01:57:42.390 --> 01:57:43.590 over the last few years. 01:57:43.590 --> 01:57:47.197 It was originally added in TRM 7.0 01:57:48.320 --> 01:57:51.580 with the expectation that there would be additional M&V done 01:57:51.580 --> 01:57:55.510 to validate those savings and refine them moving forward. 01:57:55.510 --> 01:57:56.343 That didn't happen. 01:57:56.343 --> 01:58:00.160 And so as a result of that, it was removed from TRM 8.0, 01:58:00.160 --> 01:58:03.220 but we've recognized that that's in part 01:58:03.220 --> 01:58:05.980 probably due to the fact that some of those projects 01:58:05.980 --> 01:58:09.760 weren't able to occur last year due to the environment 01:58:09.760 --> 01:58:11.260 that we find ourselves in right now. 01:58:11.260 --> 01:58:13.990 And so we've added it back this time to the M&V section 01:58:13.990 --> 01:58:16.890 with a few additional M&V requirements. 01:58:16.890 --> 01:58:19.390 But that measure may eventually transition back 01:58:19.390 --> 01:58:20.460 to volume two 01:58:21.410 --> 01:58:22.680 once we get the data that we need 01:58:22.680 --> 01:58:25.630 to kind of increase the competence in those deemed savings. 01:58:29.590 --> 01:58:31.480 So I mentioned the pandemic 01:58:31.480 --> 01:58:35.700 and there was some qualitative guidance added 01:58:35.700 --> 01:58:40.110 to both the behavioral and commercial Commissioning measures 01:58:40.110 --> 01:58:42.350 to account for some unique scenarios 01:58:42.350 --> 01:58:44.580 that may be related to the pandemic 01:58:44.580 --> 01:58:47.620 or other similar scenarios. 01:58:47.620 --> 01:58:52.060 And then for residential and commercial load management, 01:58:52.060 --> 01:58:54.220 Lark already mentioned the exclusion 01:58:54.220 --> 01:58:55.300 of critical load customers. 01:58:55.300 --> 01:58:57.140 So I won't get into that again, 01:58:57.140 --> 01:58:59.770 but the main other change to these measures 01:58:59.770 --> 01:59:03.030 was to kind of remove utility specific details 01:59:03.030 --> 01:59:06.480 and instead point to their individual program manuals. 01:59:06.480 --> 01:59:09.550 So you can get all that information for the specific utility 01:59:09.550 --> 01:59:11.200 that you're used to working with. 01:59:13.691 --> 01:59:14.524 And yep, I think that's it. 01:59:14.524 --> 01:59:16.607 So, if you have any questions 01:59:18.799 --> 01:59:19.632 I'm happy to take them now. 01:59:19.632 --> 01:59:23.020 Also, and also for those folks on the phone, 01:59:23.020 --> 01:59:26.210 if there's ever anything that you have 01:59:26.210 --> 01:59:27.330 that you'd like to discuss, 01:59:27.330 --> 01:59:29.490 whether it's wanting to get a better understanding 01:59:29.490 --> 01:59:32.100 of how the savings are derived, how to use them, 01:59:32.100 --> 01:59:34.480 or if you have ideas for how to improve the TRM, 01:59:34.480 --> 01:59:36.360 my contact information is on the screen now. 01:59:36.360 --> 01:59:38.360 So, please feel free to reach out to me 01:59:38.360 --> 01:59:40.430 or reach out to Tetra Tech 01:59:40.430 --> 01:59:43.240 and we maintain what we call a TRM tracker. 01:59:43.240 --> 01:59:48.080 That's I think publicly available. Is it publicly available? 01:59:48.080 --> 01:59:50.250 Well, it's on, it's not right now. 01:59:50.250 --> 01:59:51.710 Yeah, it's on SharePoint. 01:59:51.710 --> 01:59:54.620 So we can, if you get that information to us, 01:59:54.620 --> 01:59:56.320 we'll make sure it's added to the TRM tracker 01:59:56.320 --> 02:00:00.393 so that it gets addressed in a, in an upcoming TRM update. 02:00:03.700 --> 02:00:04.623 Any questions? 02:00:07.200 --> 02:00:09.051 Okay. That's the way I like it. 02:00:09.051 --> 02:00:10.331 (laughing) 02:00:10.331 --> 02:00:11.331 Thank you. 02:00:12.299 --> 02:00:13.132 It was really nice. 02:00:13.132 --> 02:00:14.463 We're gonna wrap up at noon instead of 1230. 02:00:14.463 --> 02:00:17.340 I thought, boy, people are gonna start getting hungry. 02:00:17.340 --> 02:00:19.263 It's before 12:30, so that worked out great. 02:00:20.100 --> 02:00:21.280 Thank you all for coming. 02:00:21.280 --> 02:00:24.350 It is just lovely to actually see some faces 02:00:24.350 --> 02:00:28.510 of people again, and thank you for all on the phone as well. 02:00:28.510 --> 02:00:31.260 So Therese, let me know if I've missed anything, 02:00:31.260 --> 02:00:36.260 but I think our next step here is an EEIP distribution email 02:00:36.660 --> 02:00:40.003 that will have the red line TRM that is ready, 02:00:41.030 --> 02:00:43.050 and that staff will be working on filing this week 02:00:43.050 --> 02:00:46.810 on Interchange. So you will have that link to review. 02:00:46.810 --> 02:00:48.410 Everything is red lined, 02:00:48.410 --> 02:00:51.000 so you can easily identify the updates. 02:00:51.000 --> 02:00:53.970 There is an update memo that goes with it. 02:00:53.970 --> 02:00:56.350 So you can see the summary of all the updates 02:00:56.350 --> 02:00:59.090 and then go straight to the red lines. 02:00:59.090 --> 02:01:01.550 In our presentations were also, 02:01:01.550 --> 02:01:03.730 we always file those in the project as well. 02:01:03.730 --> 02:01:06.030 So that will be coming out this week. 02:01:06.030 --> 02:01:08.330 We do a two week comment period. 02:01:08.330 --> 02:01:10.340 If for any reason you need more time, 02:01:10.340 --> 02:01:12.870 just reach out and we can try and accommodate that. 02:01:12.870 --> 02:01:14.310 But you know, 02:01:14.310 --> 02:01:16.480 we're looking to finalize by the end of the year 02:01:16.480 --> 02:01:17.350 and get a final. 02:01:17.350 --> 02:01:19.760 So we don't have a lot of wiggle room. 02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:22.840 On the low income forms that we talked about 02:01:23.729 --> 02:01:25.800 and TEPRI did all of those, you know, again, 02:01:25.800 --> 02:01:27.690 lots of work has been done. 02:01:27.690 --> 02:01:30.880 Those forms are in utility hands 02:01:31.920 --> 02:01:34.860 and we do anticipate distributing those 02:01:34.860 --> 02:01:38.570 for EEIP review in November. 02:01:38.570 --> 02:01:40.910 They can't actually be finalized till January, 02:01:40.910 --> 02:01:43.260 cause that's when the federal poverty level information 02:01:43.260 --> 02:01:44.093 is updated. 02:01:44.093 --> 02:01:48.060 So the final that will be filed will not be until 2022, 02:01:48.060 --> 02:01:50.943 but the forms will be distributed for review before that. 02:01:52.140 --> 02:01:52.980 Any other? 02:01:52.980 --> 02:01:54.120 I think that's it, Laura. 02:01:54.120 --> 02:01:56.447 You covered it all. Thank you very much. 02:01:56.447 --> 02:01:58.550 Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. 02:01:58.550 --> 02:02:01.723 Yeah. Oh no, Cyrus, I would be so disappointed. 02:02:01.723 --> 02:02:04.420 You mentioned earlier that you guys publish 02:02:05.699 --> 02:02:08.323 a sort of a five page executive summary. 02:02:09.510 --> 02:02:12.220 Does that get this? Where does that get filed in? 02:02:12.220 --> 02:02:13.070 That we can see it. 02:02:13.070 --> 02:02:17.100 Yeah, so we send out the, it gets filed in the project. 02:02:17.100 --> 02:02:21.340 So we will just be adding that now that we didn't get, 02:02:21.340 --> 02:02:23.080 you know, we kind of vet things 02:02:23.080 --> 02:02:25.610 since we didn't get any significant comments, 02:02:25.610 --> 02:02:26.670 we will file that. 02:02:26.670 --> 02:02:29.150 So we'll just include that on the same distribution 02:02:29.150 --> 02:02:31.151 that's going out this week. 02:02:31.151 --> 02:02:31.984 Thanks. 02:02:31.984 --> 02:02:32.817 Yeah. Yeah. 02:02:32.817 --> 02:02:35.870 And then that's also always available. 02:02:35.870 --> 02:02:36.830 If you don't want to go, 02:02:36.830 --> 02:02:39.110 everything is on the Commission website and file, 02:02:39.110 --> 02:02:43.230 but they also, Frontier also gets everything up 02:02:43.230 --> 02:02:45.390 on Texasefficiency.com as well. 02:02:45.390 --> 02:02:48.830 So I have, I send that after EEIP, but if you're like, 02:02:48.830 --> 02:02:51.588 oh, do I have to go, it's on the- 02:02:51.588 --> 02:02:54.669 And where do, what's the project number? 02:02:54.669 --> 02:02:57.401 Is there one project number that all this gets filed in? 02:02:57.401 --> 02:03:00.540 Yeah, it's 38578. 02:03:00.540 --> 02:03:02.483 I'm just getting that on record. 02:03:02.483 --> 02:03:03.316 (laughing) 02:03:03.316 --> 02:03:04.564 Thanks. 02:03:04.564 --> 02:03:06.352 And I'm so glad, I never say it right. 02:03:06.352 --> 02:03:07.812 So Therese has it. 02:03:07.812 --> 02:03:10.500 (laughs) 02:03:10.500 --> 02:03:13.870 Great. Anything else for today? 02:03:13.870 --> 02:03:15.403 I'm so glad to see you. 02:03:17.410 --> 02:03:18.740 All right. 02:03:18.740 --> 02:03:19.573 All right. Thank you. 02:03:19.573 --> 02:03:23.853 Anything from the phone before we say goodbye? 02:03:27.310 --> 02:03:28.652 Thank you. 02:03:28.652 --> 02:03:30.731 Thank you. 02:03:30.731 --> 02:03:32.123 Thanks, bye. 02:03:32.123 --> 02:03:32.956 Bye bye. 02:03:34.757 --> 02:03:35.590 All right.