WEBVTT

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Good morning. This
meeting of the Public Utility.

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Commission of Texas will
come to order to consider

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matters duly posted with
the Secretary of State of

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Texas for September 2,
2021. For the record, my name

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is Peter Lake. And with
me today are Will McAdams,

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Lori Cobos, and Jimmy
Glottfelty. Before we dive in.

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Will has a few words he'd
like to say about one of

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our long time teammates.
Mr. Chairman, with your permission

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I'd like to call up a staff
member if I might. Just

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for a few questions. Darryl
Tietjen, would you step forward

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please?

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Good morning. Commissioners.
You're catching me by

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surprise. Good. Could you
state your name for the record?

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Yes. Darryl Tietjen, Rate
regulation division. Thank you, sir.

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Darrell is it true that you've worked

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for the Public Utility
Commission for more than 30

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years. For better for
worse. That is true, Mr.

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That is true. And
you've testified previously

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on a lot of high profile
cases, as I remember, rate

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cases. Sale transfer merger
cases, securitization cases.

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Yes, sir. And I believe you've also been

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a leader in adopting a
lot of our existing rules. So

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is it fair to say that the
modern utility code interpretation

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is somewhat through your
mind? Commissioner, are you

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perhaps you're not trying to
imply that I was responsible

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for the winter storm, are
you? I don't want to be deposed.

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Course responsible
for the storm is one thing

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responsible for the
existing rules. I guess is

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another. I have worked on
a number of rules yes, sir.

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That's my understanding
as well. You've always also

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mentored and trained a fair
amount of the Commission

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staff over those decades.
A lot of the people in high

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profile positions from the
PUC that are now leading

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the industry, sort of grew
up under your tutelage.

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Is that fair? Well, when
you have been here for

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over 30 years and started
and I did start when I was

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10, so I guess that's an
accurate characterization.

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Yes, sir. Okay, well, for
those reasons, I called you

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up here, a lot of people
apparently think a lot of

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you, and they have recognized

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the influence that you've
had on both the Commission

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and the industry as such.
And I wanted to take the

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opportunity with the chairs
permission to announce

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here in front of your
colleagues and the public

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that you have been selected
to receive the 2021 Gulf.

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Power, Gulf Coast Power
Association Pat Wood Power.

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Star Award and the
award as those in the public

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should know, is one of
the most prestigious awards

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that can be achieved by
someone in the industry

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or in the regulatory body
that works with this industry.

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And I think due to your
years of service, it's well

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deserved. And I just wanted
to take a moment to say

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that. Well, here here. I
definitely appreciate that.

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Again, I had no idea why
you were even calling me up

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here in the first place. I
didn't know if I did something

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wrong. You know, just
yesterday I asked Connie, I said

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Connie, I said I got this
registration for the GCPA

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conference coming up
later this month. And I said

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I guess, did you just want
some sort of representation

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from all the divisions?
She said yes. So typical

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in the past the GCPA has sometimes

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addressed issues that I
do not ordinarily get involved

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with too much. But anyway,
now I understand Connie.

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But I definitely appreciate
that. Of course I was here

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back in the old days when
Pat Wood was here and I

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know Pat of course.
And as we all know, Pat's

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a very intelligent guy.
He's a visionary, certainly.

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And I graciously accept
his award that has

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his name on it. As you are,
Daryl, a visionary in rates.

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Well, I appreciate it very much.
Thank you. Congratulations.

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Thank you. Sure. Okay.

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The only other item we
have that is not quite of

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such import but close is
recognizing Mr Journay's birthday.

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Happy birthday sir. We
don't need to get into the

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calculus of it, but I will say, I think

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everybody up here can
agree that your wisdom

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is as timeless as your
wardrobe and we're grateful

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to have both. Yes sir. I'm
older than rocks and dumber

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than dirt. That's why I'm
sitting here. You can date

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him by the vintage of
his Magellan fishing shirts.

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We don't need to get into the...

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Happy birthday sir. Could you
take us to our Consent Agenda

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for the day?

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Good morning, Commissioners,
by individual ballot, two

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items were placed on your
Consent Agenda, item 10 and

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item 15. Okay, is there a
motion to approve the items

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just described for our Consent
Agenda? So moved. Seconded. All in

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favor say aye. Motion
passes. At this time, we'll

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open for public comment. Oral
comments related to specific

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agenda items will be heard
when that specific agenda

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item has taken up. This is
for general comments only

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speakers will be limited
to three minutes each. Mr.

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Journay, do we have anyone
from the public signed up

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to speak? There's nobody
on the list, sir. Fair enough.

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Public comment is now
closed. Understand we will not

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be taking up item 25 today.
So with that we will start

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with agenda item number one.

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Item #1 is Docket number 52004, petition

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of D P S L P. I've renamed
them to alphabet soup

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limited to amend the AquaTexas
certificate of convenience

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necessity in Montgomery
county by expedited release.

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Before you is a proposed
order filed on July 15, exceptions

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were filed by a memo. The ALJ
filed on August 2nd, recommended

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no changes in response.

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Thank you. I think the
proposed order makes a lot of

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sense. The only issue I
would have is the lack of notice

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provided to AquaTexas.
At the end of day, I think

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they were eventually
provided notice but want to

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remind stakeholders that notice
is a fundamental component

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of our process. Any
other thoughts, comments?

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I agree. Agreed.

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Considering that, is there
a motion to approve the

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proposed order with a
modification to note that we're

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we are granting a good cause
exception to the applicants

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notice because AquaTexas
did receive actual notice

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of the application with a
reminder to stakeholders

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to make sure to adhere to
the process going forward.

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Second.
All in favor say aye. Motion passes.

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I don't think we have
anything on item two that will

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bring us to item number
three, Mr Journay.

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Item three is docket 512080, it's the

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application of Commission
staff to review USF support

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for the Briggs exchange.
Before you is a revised proposed

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order that was filed on
July 20 and I have a memo

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in this matter. It's fair to say
this seems straightforward

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and I certainly want to be
supportive of telecom in rural

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Texas. Is there a motion
to approve the proposed

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order as modified by Commission
Counsel Memo? So moved. Second.

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All in favor say aye. Motion
passes. Item number four

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please, sir. Item four is
docket 51289 is the application

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of Commission staff to review
USF support for the Water.

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Valley exchange. Before you
is a proposed order that was

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filed on July 22. Corrections
were filed. The ALJ accepted

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those corrections by
memo filed on August 9.

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Thank you. This one's
a little more complicated.

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One of the big issues at question is

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if TUSF Support should be on a ETP

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basis or per wire basis.
My sense is, a wider center

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per wire centre basis. My
senses wire center but happy

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happy to hear other thoughts on that.
So I just like

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to highlight the the high
level crux of the policy

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that is both in the
statute and the way PUC

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has attempted to move
forward is to provide, maintain

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and provide that essential
service. So in this case

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because the criticality
of the entities that were

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being served. I think
that's key to that public

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interest determination.
We're fortunate to have that

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latitude to make that.
So I think this case hinges

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upon that fact. Absolutely.
The telecom provider

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that has five access lines
in this case is providing

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services to county emergency
medical providers and

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that is critically important.
So I think I would be

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in favor of modifying a
proposed order and proving

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it based on a wire centre
basis given the facts

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of the services that are
being provided by the telecom

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provider. At least one of
them in that wire center.

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Great.
I'm in agreement.
To do so. To change the proposed

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order, to accommodate
that adjustment, I think

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we need to modify ordering
paragraph one and delete

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ordering paragraph two.
Is there a motion to approve

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the proposed order with those
changes to modify ordering

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paragraph one to provide
TUSF support to the entire wire

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centre and delete ordering
paragraph two. So moved.

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Second. All in favor say
aye. Motion passes. Item ♪5

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Please, sir. Item five is
docket 51475. The application

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of Windstream Sugarland
to revise customer service

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tariffs. Before you is a
proposal for decision filed

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on July 7, that would
dismiss the application for

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failure to prosecute and
for failure to amend their

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application. No exceptions
were filed in this. Think

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it's pretty simple. It's an
abandoned application. That's

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a way to put it. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
Is there a motion to

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adopt the proposal for decision?
So moved.

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Second. All in favor say aye.
Motion passes. Item number

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six. Item 6 is Docket
51626. It's the application

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of Blossom telephone
company to true up. They're

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receipt of Texas USF or
reductions in federal USF

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before you is a revised
proposed order filed on July 22.

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And there you go.
Thank you. Mr Journay. This

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is yet another even more
nuanced USF case relating

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to what TUSF funds
are eligible for related to

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federal USF funds. There's a
big question about broadband

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and how that syncs
up between the federal

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and the state version. We've
got several previous dockets

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that consider this. I know
there's a lot of different

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elements of this, but it is
certainly worth considering

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going back to establish a
position of previous dockets

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before we get to this one.
But obviously hear thoughts

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and comments.

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I think we need to request
information in this case

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to determine what specific
amounts if any are tied

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to federal funding for
broadband service. Broadband

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versus normal telephone communication.
Exactly.
And again, I agree with

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you, Commissioner Cobos. I
think that drives at the heart of

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the policy that has been
heavily debated in the legislature

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and here at this dais
about what these funds

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ultimately statutorily should
be used for? You know

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so we are somewhat constrained,
and no, we're not somewhat

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we are constrained in how
those funds can be used.

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And so we've got to be
clear and so I would support

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going back and finding
out, getting more information.

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Yeah, I think it's just a
matter of due diligence to

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be able to to get more
information to distinguish what

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the funding was for while
we await action in the

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other two cases that are
addressing the same matter.

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Fair enough.
I'm good. I'm agreed.
Is there a motion

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to remand this case the
docket management to obtain

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that clarification from
Blossom on whether projected

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or actual federal USF
reduction that includes support

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for broadband service.
So moved.
Second.
All in favor

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say aye. Motion passes.

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I don't have anything
on #7. That'll take

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us to number eight, please. Mr Journay.
Item eight is

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docket 50997. It's the
application of Southwestern.

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Electric Power Company
to reconcile fuel costs. I will

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note that Commissioner
Cobos has recused herself from

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this matte. Before you is
a proposed order filed on

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August 12th, reflect an
agreement files in this case.

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Commission staff filed
some corrections. Those were

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accepted by the ALJ by a
memo filed on August 25.

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Thank you sir. We've got
a unanimous settlement in

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this case but with an open
question of the rate case

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expenses. They're clearly
recoverable but they're in a

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black box and we can't
see what they are or have

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any backup information about,
and we don't have an attorney

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affirming the reasonableness
of those fees. Thoughts?

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Sorry. My thoughts are that
SWPECO should have known

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better. This is, this is
not, this is a rate case

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101, it's been in the rules for a

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long time. They should
know this. We should remand it

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back and have them submit
the documentation. I expect

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they have it but I need
a lawyer to do so to

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follow our rules.
Fair enough. Makes sense.
So just

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to understand, in these
cases, the staff need to have

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an attorney to verify
this? And let me ask this

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does staff and Rachel, you
might, we might hear from

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you on this, do we have
the expertise on staff to do

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that?

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Darrell or Rachel?

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Daryl's putting his work in today.

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I may feel a bit inadequate
after what happened earlier

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Darryl Tietjen on behalf
staff. Commissioners

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if you're referring to
staff attorneys opining

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as to reasonable, staff attorneys
opining to the reasonableness

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of outside, of other
parties legal costs, I can just

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tell you that historically,
that is not something that

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staff has done. If
ever, I think as I recall.

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Good morning, chairman and
Commissioners. Rachel Robles

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on behalf of Commission
staff and I can confirm what

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Darrell was just saying
about, we historically have

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not done that, but that's
something, if that's something

00:16:27.210 --> 00:16:28.985
that you would like for us
to look into, we're happy to

00:16:29.009 --> 00:16:30.916
do it.

00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:36.135
So yeah, it was, me
personally, I am not an attorney

00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.885
I do not have expertise
in billings, so you know

00:16:38.909 --> 00:16:41.905
so I wouldn't presume to
do that. However, as for the

00:16:41.929 --> 00:16:46.255
letter of the rule, are
we confining this to the

00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:51.105
way the rate case is filed
and thus the petitioners in

00:16:51.129 --> 00:16:54.255
that case? Is that kind of
how we're putting this in

00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.525
a box.?
That's what that's what I believe.
Okay.

00:16:57.549 --> 00:16:59.495
And I would and I would
follow suit on that. I'm just

00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.436
trying to clarify in
terms of proceedings for

00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:05.170
staffs purposes, what we
need to have in there and

00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:10.595
okay. Yeah I think like Jimmy
said this is rate case 101.

00:17:10.619 --> 00:17:13.366
And we need more than just a CPA from

00:17:13.390 --> 00:17:18.265
another state.
Good to go.
Alright. Is there a

00:17:18.289 --> 00:17:20.485
motion to remand this case to
Docket management to SWEPCO

00:17:20.509 --> 00:17:22.485
to supplement the record with competent

00:17:22.509 --> 00:17:25.559
evidence as to the reasonableness
of its rate case expenses?

00:17:25.940 --> 00:17:29.876
So moved.
Second.
All in favor say aye. Motion

00:17:29.900 --> 00:17:34.116
passes. Thank you. Thank you.

00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:37.416
Next item please.

00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.289
Just to note, Item 10 was
consented. Item 11 is the.

00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:48.876
Item nine? Oh well sir, it's

00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:55.106
my birthday.
Free pass granted.
Item 9

00:17:55.130 --> 00:17:57.170
is Docket 51580, application
of TMNP for a approval

00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:04.216
of its wholesale distribution
line service tariff. Before

00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:09.859
you is a proposed order
that was filed on July 16th.

00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:14.035
Thank you. I think the
proposed order broadly makes

00:18:14.059 --> 00:18:20.085
sense. There's a question of
date and all things considered

00:18:20.109 --> 00:18:23.460
I don't see a lot of
reason to move off of our

00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:29.335
35 days as required in the rule.
Total agree.
Just to

00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.269
confirm. So that will be January 7?
January 7. Correct.

00:18:33.940 --> 00:18:35.926
All right. Is there a motion
to approve the proposed

00:18:35.950 --> 00:18:37.966
order with modification to
ordering paragraph one to

00:18:37.990 --> 00:18:43.146
set the effective date to January
7, 2021? So moved Second.

00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:47.515
All in favor say aye. Motion passes,

00:18:47.539 --> 00:18:50.735
10 was consented and that
will bring us to item number 11.

00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:55.535
Item 11 is docket 51984,
application of APTexas

00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:59.575
to amend its DCRF. Before you is a

00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.856
proposed order filed on
August 13. Proposed corrections

00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:08.170
were accepted by the ALJ
by a memo filed on August 24.

00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:16.366
Thank you sir. Again, I
think the cost recovery seems

00:19:16.390 --> 00:19:19.339
reasonable but it's
another question of the

00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.200
rate case expenses and the
amount and reasonableness.

00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:27.720
Again, lack of visibility,
even more so in this case

00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:32.815
and given that these
expenses by definition end up

00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:37.146
on the ratepayers, I would
think we want to ensure

00:19:37.170 --> 00:19:39.466
we have visibility to
ensure that those rates are

00:19:39.490 --> 00:19:41.735
costs incurred are
reasonable and it's not a blank

00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:49.140
check, blank check to burden
consumers with costs. Agree.

00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:53.769
Absolutely agree. And the
parties need to comply with

00:19:54.140 --> 00:19:58.206
with the rules with the statute.
That would be a good

00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:02.815
general principle.
Right.

00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:05.025
All right. Is there a motion
to remand this case to

00:20:05.049 --> 00:20:07.005
docket management to
allow the cities to supplement

00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:08.696
the record with evidence
as to the reasonableness

00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:12.226
of rate case expenses?
So moved.
All in favor

00:20:12.250 --> 00:20:18.416
say aye. Alright, motion
passes. I don't know if

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:22.226
you plan on taking up 12, 13
and 14. I've of course recused

00:20:22.250 --> 00:20:26.616
myself.
No sir. Not at this time please.

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:31.106
Alright, item 15 was
consented. I don't have anything

00:20:31.130 --> 00:20:34.656
for 16. Can I say something
under 15 although we consented

00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:37.845
it? The one question
that I had which was I

00:20:37.869 --> 00:20:40.406
was happy to see that staff
had put something in there

00:20:40.430 --> 00:20:47.226
about in our order
about asking with these.

00:20:47.250 --> 00:20:51.085
EMS systems, how well do
they react in an emergency

00:20:51.109 --> 00:20:54.676
situation? How can we
understand better about cutting

00:20:54.700 --> 00:20:58.305
off load and utilities
can do this in times of

00:20:58.329 --> 00:21:01.245
emergency. We know that
this just happened but AMS

00:21:01.269 --> 00:21:03.555
systems ought to be part
of that solution and we ought

00:21:03.579 --> 00:21:06.255
to have a better idea to
understand why. So, I think

00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.216
the fact that that question
was in here is a really

00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.896
good thing to say, to tell
everybody that look, we want

00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.466
to look at this through
a lens of reliability and if

00:21:15.490 --> 00:21:17.606
there's a reliability piece
to it, we want to know

00:21:17.630 --> 00:21:21.696
about it.
Well put, another reminder that this

00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.656
is the new lens through
which we look at everything

00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:31.535
is in the context of
reliability and also a chance

00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:36.696
to mention that you
are taking a interest

00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:42.726
and will be launching or
taking the initiative on improving

00:21:42.750 --> 00:21:48.275
segmentation of loadshed
and granularity of response

00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:53.916
during scarcity events.
So, thank you for that. Alright

00:21:53.940 --> 00:22:00.335
that takes us to Item 21
where I think we've got an

00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.956
update from market. And then
both Commissioner McAdams

00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:10.765
and Commissioner Cobos
have updates on their special

00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:17.916
projects.

00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.845
All right, good morning,
Commissioners. Christie Hobbs,

00:22:20.869 --> 00:22:23.896
Vice President of Corporate
Strategy and PUC Relations

00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.985
for ERCOT. Thank you for
having me back to keep you

00:22:28.009 --> 00:22:30.995
updated on what we've
continued to see on the grid

00:22:31.019 --> 00:22:34.106
this summer. Both from
a demand perspective as

00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:39.295
well as a generation
performance perspective. First

00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:41.396
thing we like to do is
take a look back to last

00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:45.616
week. We've continued to
see a trend where we see higher

00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.676
demand and wind output
earlier in the week and then

00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:51.936
we see that both start to
taper off as we continue

00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.505
through the week. Last
week, our peak demand was in

00:22:54.529 --> 00:22:58.255
the lower 70,000 megawatt
range over the week and then

00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.045
it dropped into the mid
60,000 range as we got closer

00:23:01.069 --> 00:23:04.866
to the weekend. The renewable
performance at beginning

00:23:04.890 --> 00:23:09.936
of week, again at seasonal
expectations. But we

00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:12.235
did see that drop off
towards the end of the week.

00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:17.325
Where solar was, although
solar was at 6000 each

00:23:17.349 --> 00:23:19.255
day except for Sunday,
where it dropped off because

00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:24.085
of showers. From a thermal
generation outage perspective

00:23:24.109 --> 00:23:27.765
we've continued to see in
the 4 to 5000 megawatt range

00:23:27.789 --> 00:23:32.956
on outages throughout the
week this week to date. You

00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:34.706
know, we often talk about
the tools that we have in

00:23:34.730 --> 00:23:37.376
our toolkit as we were
looking ahead to Monday, we

00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.095
saw potential for higher than
expected demand and lower

00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:43.686
than expected renewable
forecasts. We did call that

00:23:43.710 --> 00:23:46.626
one of our high variability
days and procured additional

00:23:46.650 --> 00:23:49.966
reserves to ensure that we
could adequately meet the

00:23:49.990 --> 00:23:54.025
needs of Texans over that
day. On Monday, we saw a

00:23:54.049 --> 00:23:58.845
demand in the mid 71,000
range and wind was only at

00:23:58.869 --> 00:24:02.170
the 3000, which was lower
than seasonal expectations.

00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:05.325
So using that tool in
our tool kit did prove to be

00:24:05.349 --> 00:24:08.585
beneficial. On Monday, as
we moved into Tuesday the

00:24:08.609 --> 00:24:11.525
last day of August, we
actually saw the highest demand

00:24:11.549 --> 00:24:17.886
of the season thus far
on the system at 73,475.

00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:20.835
At that time we saw about
5000 MW of wind and about

00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:25.505
5000 MW of solar during
the peak period. Yesterday

00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:27.696
moving into the first day
of September, we actually

00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:32.116
hit an all time September
peak. That exceeded our

00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:34.926
previous peak, which was
in September of 2019 by a

00:24:34.950 --> 00:24:41.116
little over 3000 MW. And
so that peak was 72,213 for

00:24:41.140 --> 00:24:46.446
yesterday. Thermal
generation outages so far this

00:24:46.470 --> 00:24:49.656
week. You know, we've been
in about 3 to 5000 megawatt

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:51.936
range, so consistent with
what we see in the past couple

00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.686
of weeks. As we look ahead
to the next seven days in

00:24:55.710 --> 00:24:58.035
our forecast today, we're
expected to be in the mid

00:24:58.059 --> 00:25:01.716
72,000 range for a demand
perspective. Again, we've

00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:05.245
got a little bit higher wind
and the 9000 range and

00:25:05.269 --> 00:25:09.095
about 5000 solar. We'll
continue to see that trend

00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.845
down as we get again
closer to the weekend. And

00:25:12.869 --> 00:25:15.666
as we get to Monday, which
is a holiday, we're expecting

00:25:15.690 --> 00:25:17.835
the load to be in the
mid-60s, but then kind of come

00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:21.235
back up as we get further
into the week. From a

00:25:21.259 --> 00:25:24.015
renewable perspective,
we're also seeing that taper

00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:26.315
down as we continue out
through the week. So today

00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:30.126
we'll see about 9000, we'll
get into the 4-5,000 range

00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:33.835
over the weekend. And then
as we move into next week

00:25:33.859 --> 00:25:36.686
actually, we'll see a low
on Tuesday in the about the

00:25:36.710 --> 00:25:40.495
2000 megawatt range from
a wind perspective. From a

00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:42.906
solar perspective, we're
expecting to see anywhere

00:25:42.930 --> 00:25:46.896
from 5 to mid 6000 range as
we look over the next seven

00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:52.995
days. So as I close out
again, you probably tired of

00:25:53.019 --> 00:25:55.476
hearing the repeat button,
but we commit to you

00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:57.386
that we're going to operate
the grid more conservatively

00:25:57.410 --> 00:25:59.815
to do whatever we need to
do to make sure that we're

00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:03.476
ensuring a grid reliability
for the people and businesses

00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:06.835
of Texas. Whether that's
securing more reserves

00:26:06.859 --> 00:26:10.226
or we're bringing them on
earlier. So that we ensure

00:26:10.250 --> 00:26:14.926
that the grid is reliable.
I wanted to look ahead

00:26:14.950 --> 00:26:17.706
to future reports. I know your
memo, Commissioner Cobos

00:26:17.730 --> 00:26:21.285
had us coming back the
first open meeting in October

00:26:21.309 --> 00:26:24.495
to kind of give you a look
back a summary of the

00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.745
summer performance, but
recognizing that we're still

00:26:27.769 --> 00:26:31.255
you know, in the higher
range of demand through,

00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:33.946
you know, the next several
days at least in September

00:26:33.970 --> 00:26:36.295
would like to offer if you'd
like me to come back to

00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:39.235
your September 23rd open
meeting can give you an update

00:26:39.259 --> 00:26:42.835
again as well, similar to
what we've been doing and

00:26:42.859 --> 00:26:46.245
then to also see if you
know, whether you would

00:26:46.269 --> 00:26:48.555
prefer to get that summer
wrap up at your first meeting

00:26:48.579 --> 00:26:50.785
in October or if you'd
like to look to one of your

00:26:50.809 --> 00:26:53.565
later October meetings or
we may have some additional

00:26:53.589 --> 00:26:57.170
data available as we look
back and analyze this summer.

00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:00.535
Yes. And thank you Christie
for asking those questions.

00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:03.956
In response to your first
question, Yes, please

00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:06.845
come back for the September
23rd open meeting and give

00:27:06.869 --> 00:27:10.226
us a grid update. With
respect to your second question

00:27:10.250 --> 00:27:15.226
on the summer performance
review I think it would

00:27:15.250 --> 00:27:18.525
be best to come on the
October 7 open meeting to

00:27:18.549 --> 00:27:22.466
give us the review and and
some highlights of the summer

00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:25.849
but also to have market
staff provide us with a

00:27:26.339 --> 00:27:29.956
update as we enter into
the shoulder months and

00:27:29.980 --> 00:27:34.646
we have maintenance
outages and there's sort

00:27:34.670 --> 00:27:38.795
of an operational update
on what we're looking at

00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:42.015
as we enter the shoulder
months and how ERCOT plans

00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:47.515
to be prepared during that season.

00:27:47.539 --> 00:27:50.845
Questions, comments for Christie?
I just had one question

00:27:50.869 --> 00:27:54.745
and that was on thermal
outages, were with the roughly

00:27:54.769 --> 00:27:58.666
5000 MW was most of
that planned or how much of

00:27:58.690 --> 00:28:01.106
that was planned versus unplanned?
Those are unplanned.

00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:05.866
Those are all unplanned.
For context. I think 4-5,000

00:28:05.890 --> 00:28:09.716
is what we saw this last
weekend this week. That means

00:28:09.740 --> 00:28:13.569
that the thermal fleets
are running at 95%

00:28:13.869 --> 00:28:17.585
of installed capacity
is running. For context

00:28:17.609 --> 00:28:24.676
4 to 3000 of wind to 5000 of wind is 10

00:28:24.700 --> 00:28:28.525
to 20% of installed capacity
for context. My thought here is

00:28:28.549 --> 00:28:32.176
obviously, you know, the
renewables were subjected

00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:36.366
to the environment to produce
those and thermals were

00:28:36.390 --> 00:28:41.795
not you know, I know
these are complex machines

00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:48.386
their maintenance schedules since I'm

00:28:48.410 --> 00:28:50.015
new to the Commission, I
don't know what the maintenance

00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:53.406
schedules are. I hope we
are, you know that they are

00:28:53.430 --> 00:28:57.015
doing preventative maintenance,
they'reon maintenance

00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:59.436
schedules that don't affect
the market as much as they

00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:01.616
can. If we can prevent some
of these maintenance then

00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.166
perhaps we won't have
5000 MW in the wintertime or

00:29:05.190 --> 00:29:07.825
in the summertime offline
during the weeks that we

00:29:07.849 --> 00:29:11.295
need it. So I think mine is an
appeal and an encouragement

00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:14.456
to make sure that these
companies stick to their maintenance

00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:17.345
schedules, do predictive
maintenance, make sure that

00:29:17.369 --> 00:29:19.626
these plants are ready
and available for the people

00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.426
of Texas because we need it.
Absolutely. I know Commissioner.

00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:28.186
Cobos is focused on that
issue as well. So I think

00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:33.785
we, the rest of us fully support,

00:29:33.809 --> 00:29:38.476
intense focus on maintenance

00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:41.845
in sync with reliability for sure

00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:44.325
and I know you mentioned
this, Christie but it bears

00:29:44.349 --> 00:29:49.716
repeating that the forecast
variability reserves that

00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:53.396
have been procured as a
new change. And one of the

00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:58.515
primary ways in which ERCOT
is managing the grid more

00:29:58.539 --> 00:30:02.575
conservatively as opposed
to the past we're now taking

00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:06.089
real time conditions, weather
conditions into consideration

00:30:06.150 --> 00:30:09.460
instead of relying on
whatever reserves were just set

00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.109
a year ago. That's a
tremendous difference

00:30:13.539 --> 00:30:16.315
in the way we're managing
the grid and as you said

00:30:16.339 --> 00:30:19.426
has made a difference
in stabilizing Texas for the

00:30:19.450 --> 00:30:23.116
summer. Thank you.

00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:26.015
Thank you. Thank you.

00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.325
All right. We have Commissioner
Mcadams and Commissioner.

00:30:28.349 --> 00:30:34.515
Cobos, updates on their projects.

00:30:34.539 --> 00:30:37.606
I'll kick her off.
I know you have a robust presentation

00:30:37.630 --> 00:30:42.595
so I'll let Will go first.
So in line with

00:30:42.619 --> 00:30:47.416
that, not to steal too much
of the thunder from the

00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:50.966
upcoming workshop I
think I want to highlight that

00:30:50.990 --> 00:30:53.595
much of our discussion over
the past months has been

00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:57.146
focused on the supply
side of our reliability equation

00:30:57.170 --> 00:31:01.176
in ERCOT, how to incentivize
new generation and what

00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:06.055
the mix of generation we
actually need is. I believe

00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:10.545
it would be also beneficial
for the health and reliability

00:31:10.569 --> 00:31:12.646
of ERCOT market to look
at the demand side of the

00:31:12.670 --> 00:31:16.325
equation and hence our
DG look. At the September

00:31:16.349 --> 00:31:19.275
16 workshop as I said
we're gonna take a deep dive

00:31:19.299 --> 00:31:23.095
into it and have good
panelists to discuss a lot

00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:25.896
of the issues that I'll
cover at a high level here.

00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.456
First there are two categories
I believe of operational

00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.166
demand response administered
by ERCOT. First there

00:31:34.190 --> 00:31:38.065
are over 600 industrial load
resources that participate

00:31:38.089 --> 00:31:40.735
in ERCOT's ancillary
services and real time energy

00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:45.146
markets. And those resources
account for around 7000.

00:31:45.170 --> 00:31:49.005
MW of registered capacity.
This is a resource that

00:31:49.029 --> 00:31:53.216
I believe we need to
continue to foster. They

00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:56.359
can participate in huge
chunks and provide real time

00:31:56.740 --> 00:32:01.166
tools for ERCOT to call upon.
Additionally, the Emergency.

00:32:01.190 --> 00:32:04.565
Response Service Program
procures about 1000 megawatts

00:32:04.589 --> 00:32:08.555
of qualified loads and
generators to make themselves

00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:11.985
available for deployment
in an emergency situation.

00:32:12.009 --> 00:32:17.565
Now of that 1000 MW, 300 of
this is provided by distributed

00:32:17.589 --> 00:32:21.176
generation resources which
we'll hear more about now.

00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:25.015
We've seen a number of
comments about ERS recently

00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.156
and appreciate the input
from stakeholders and those

00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:30.825
comments. I think it
behooves the Commission and

00:32:30.849 --> 00:32:35.656
we need to evaluate section
25.507 of TAC to determine

00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:41.166
if waiting for EEA
conditions is the right time

00:32:41.190 --> 00:32:45.045
and the appropriate way
to deploy ERS or if in the

00:32:45.069 --> 00:32:47.545
interest of maintaining a
reliable market as we have

00:32:47.569 --> 00:32:50.926
repeatedly said they
should be deployed earlier.

00:32:50.950 --> 00:32:53.235
And this is kind of a
broad policy topic. So if we

00:32:53.259 --> 00:32:56.456
want to engage right now
and just sort of talk about

00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:01.055
it war game, you know,
we can do that but I

00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:04.446
think this is one of the
significant policy issues

00:33:04.470 --> 00:33:06.670
that we're gonna be
considering going into November.

00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:12.305
Especially right now as, I
keep on referring to this but

00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:16.166
we're kind of at war with
the army we have. So it's

00:33:16.190 --> 00:33:21.186
a significant tool. Second
the TDSPs administer

00:33:21.210 --> 00:33:23.946
load management programs
to reduce demand during the

00:33:23.970 --> 00:33:26.376
summer peak for commercial
customers that have chosen

00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:29.545
to participate in the program
and have signed up. Typically

00:33:29.569 --> 00:33:32.886
these programs make up about
400 MW available to ERCOT

00:33:32.910 --> 00:33:36.900
for when grid conditions
tighten. I believe the Commission

00:33:37.529 --> 00:33:40.485
and the TDSP should
consider potentially expanding

00:33:40.509 --> 00:33:44.075
these programs to the rest
of the year and reevaluate

00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:47.226
what the threshold for
deployment is. It's currently

00:33:47.250 --> 00:33:50.085
an EEA 2 and I think
it may be beneficial to

00:33:50.109 --> 00:33:53.160
deploy them earlier. Again
with that theme toward

00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.436
reinforcing our reliability
conditions before we get

00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:00.386
to physical scarcity. I
also think we should take a

00:34:00.410 --> 00:34:03.216
look at energy efficiency

00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.065
cost recovery factor
programs currently administered

00:34:06.089 --> 00:34:07.595
by the TDSPs. Now I'm not gonna go

00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:10.865
into detail on these because
we have several dockets

00:34:10.889 --> 00:34:12.865
that are gonna be before
us potentially in the near

00:34:12.889 --> 00:34:17.066
future. But I will say
this consistent with the

00:34:17.090 --> 00:34:19.345
theme we've repeated
throughout this market design

00:34:19.369 --> 00:34:21.986
process. I believe we should
encourage performance

00:34:22.010 --> 00:34:26.206
from these programs.
Finally there are additional

00:34:26.230 --> 00:34:28.956
categories of economic
demand response that are not

00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:32.646
administered by ERCOT.
These include customer driven

00:34:32.670 --> 00:34:36.256
demand response and cost
avoiding load reduction programs.

00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:40.936
Both play an important
role in maintaining reliability

00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.745
of the grid and have
accounted for ballpark 3000 MW

00:34:44.769 --> 00:34:50.186
of reduced load on peak
days. So all of these categories

00:34:50.210 --> 00:34:53.265
are going to grow in
importance as demand inevitably

00:34:53.289 --> 00:34:57.526
increases in Texas. And I
know I've had meetings both

00:34:57.550 --> 00:35:00.175
with stakeholders and
staff and I'm sure the rest of

00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:03.936
you along the hallway have
as well. But data centers

00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:09.106
and cryptomining organizations
are growing exponentially

00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:13.265
in Texas and they, I mean
we're talking about sites

00:35:13.289 --> 00:35:18.175
that have 3000 megawatts
of load that can be turned

00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.155
off almost, you know,
instantaneously when called upon

00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:23.750
and that's going to be a
tremendous resource for ERCOT

00:35:24.340 --> 00:35:28.626
as the resource makes
changes and evolves. So we need

00:35:28.650 --> 00:35:33.166
to be watching that
mindful of it. And when

00:35:33.190 --> 00:35:37.416
we consider things that give
them economic and capacity

00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:43.416
signals. So then I'll kind
of walk into DDG, what

00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:47.336
we're finding there. The
reality is that even before

00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.836
the winter storm, homeowners
and business owners in

00:35:50.860 --> 00:35:54.425
Texas were already in
installing distributed generation

00:35:54.449 --> 00:35:58.135
resources like solar,
rooftop, solar batteries,

00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:02.146
gas and diesel fired
generators at an increasing rate

00:36:02.170 --> 00:36:04.425
and since Yuri, those
numbers are only increasing

00:36:04.449 --> 00:36:06.166
exponentially. I mean, I
think we're gonna have some

00:36:06.190 --> 00:36:09.115
astounding figures from
ERCOT in the next year, two

00:36:09.139 --> 00:36:11.825
years on what's on the
ground out there as they

00:36:11.849 --> 00:36:15.356
register these things. We
have the opportunity now

00:36:15.380 --> 00:36:18.606
to figure out how to best
deploy these resources

00:36:18.630 --> 00:36:21.655
along with batteries and
all other DG resources in

00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.265
a way that enhances
reliability and flexibility for

00:36:24.289 --> 00:36:28.575
the grid operator. Now
this comes with significant

00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:32.265
challenges and I'll just
sort of articulate what kind

00:36:32.289 --> 00:36:35.825
of buckets those fall into.
Compensation obviously is

00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:38.316
gonna be one of these
that we need to look at.

00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:41.995
How homeowners and business
owners are paid for choosing

00:36:42.019 --> 00:36:44.739
to deploy these resources
on their roof oor their backyard

00:36:45.230 --> 00:36:48.166
and how the transmission and
distribution service providers

00:36:48.190 --> 00:36:52.340
the utilities are compensated
for managing these resources

00:36:53.030 --> 00:36:57.139
on their systems, and this
goes for ERCOT and nonERCOT

00:36:57.260 --> 00:37:01.135
utilities. Same conditions
apply. We've also

00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:04.055
heard that I'm sure we'll
continue to hear from stakeholders

00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.785
about the need to clarify
and reform the interconnection

00:37:06.809 --> 00:37:09.666
process for these resources.
The devil is always in

00:37:09.690 --> 00:37:13.206
the details. We've asked
staff to open rule makings on

00:37:13.230 --> 00:37:18.836
the topic and and they
are moving forward on DG,

00:37:18.860 --> 00:37:21.046
and I think establishing
an interconnection template

00:37:21.070 --> 00:37:24.115
through this process is
going to be very useful.

00:37:24.139 --> 00:37:27.956
As a part of that proceeding
and we're gonna have several

00:37:27.980 --> 00:37:30.816
meetings with non ERCOT
utilities in the coming weeks

00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.296
to sort of gauge what they're,
what they must have and

00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.626
I think it's going to be
consistent with what ERCOT

00:37:36.650 --> 00:37:39.159
is already talking about that,
command and control capability.

00:37:39.829 --> 00:37:43.686
Aggregation, as to the
question of how to aggregate

00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:46.916
how to employ those aggregated
resources and even who

00:37:46.940 --> 00:37:49.026
can aggregate is going to
be something that we're gonna

00:37:49.050 --> 00:37:53.046
have to address in the
coming years. ERCOT has been

00:37:53.070 --> 00:37:55.365
looking at these issues
already and we'll need to

00:37:55.389 --> 00:37:59.376
continue that process and
finally command and control

00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.135
as we all said in the recent
workshops, we need to be

00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:05.276
able to fully take advantage
of opportunities of DG

00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:08.655
and we need ERCOT to
have the ability to predict

00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:10.566
how they're going to perform
and when they're going

00:38:10.590 --> 00:38:14.135
to be available. And
then that will feed into the

00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:17.250
programs that we develop
in the near future. Ultimately.

00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:20.495
DG should not be a replacement
for existing generation

00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:24.226
but it should act in concert
and complement the generation

00:38:24.250 --> 00:38:28.226
fleet that we have, and
as I said, we've asked staff

00:38:28.250 --> 00:38:30.796
to open rule makings on
the topic and we're looking

00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:33.095
forward to the input from
stakeholders that are rolling

00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:37.925
in even now. Now,
let me just before I turn

00:38:37.949 --> 00:38:40.135
it back over to you sir,
let me give you a high

00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:44.916
level overview of Southwest
power pool. So SPP manages

00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:47.615
an electric grid and I
know it's very familiar to you.

00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:51.595
Commissioner, that is a
wholesale power market in the.

00:38:51.619 --> 00:38:56.376
Central US. SPP has 14
states currently and I'll lay

00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:00.695
those out. Arkansas Iowa
Kansas Louisiana Minnesota

00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.506
Missouri Montana Nebraska
New Mexico also North Dakota

00:39:05.530 --> 00:39:11.785
Oklahoma, South Dakota and
us and Wyoming. Now in July's.

00:39:11.809 --> 00:39:16.425
SPP board meeting, they
approved the terms and conditions

00:39:16.449 --> 00:39:21.745
of a potential expansion
into Western states that

00:39:21.769 --> 00:39:26.095
which may occur in 2024.
And that expansion will likely

00:39:26.119 --> 00:39:29.976
include the members of
Arizona Colorado, Montana Utah

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.055
and Wyoming. And this
is in a renewable resource

00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:39.356
rich belt of the US where
transmission costs are, I

00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:43.106
mean, Commissioner
Glottfelty can talk about this

00:39:43.130 --> 00:39:46.285
ad nauseum. I mean,
it's a major issue. It's

00:39:46.309 --> 00:39:50.606
also setting up regional
divides, load versus resource

00:39:50.630 --> 00:39:54.515
who pays all the same
kind of issues, how to reliably

00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:58.166
administer the variability
of the new resource

00:39:58.190 --> 00:40:03.956
rich regions. Now, like
most ISOs SPP is conducting

00:40:03.980 --> 00:40:07.055
thorough reviews of how
to do that. They even as part

00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.526
of a winter storm Yuri, they
sent recommendations up

00:40:10.550 --> 00:40:15.356
to FERC that very much
mirrored Senate Bill 3 and

00:40:15.380 --> 00:40:17.825
the various components
of that legislation and how

00:40:17.849 --> 00:40:21.940
to address reliability, and in
system wide outage events

00:40:23.309 --> 00:40:26.345
although it has a lower
percentage of renewables in

00:40:26.369 --> 00:40:29.655
the generation mix than
Texas, 33% compared to our

00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:32.825
50% here in ERCOT or
close to 50%. I don't want to

00:40:32.849 --> 00:40:36.765
cross any magic thresholds
on anybody today. The

00:40:36.789 --> 00:40:39.365
tension between
intermittentcy and dispatchability

00:40:39.389 --> 00:40:41.965
is of concern there as well.
And many of the Member

00:40:41.989 --> 00:40:44.519
states have strong wind
production profiles as I mentioned.

00:40:45.110 --> 00:40:50.035
Towards this concern, SPP
has undertaken an initiative

00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:53.059
to study the effect of
requiring intermittent resources

00:40:53.510 --> 00:40:58.186
to offer a certain minimumum
level of commitments related

00:40:58.210 --> 00:41:01.035
to their forecasted generation
output in the day ahead

00:41:01.059 --> 00:41:06.836
market and I have proof.
And towards this end SPP.

00:41:06.860 --> 00:41:10.916
Market monitor performs
some initial analyses and found

00:41:10.940 --> 00:41:13.075
that when intermittent
resources cleared their day

00:41:13.099 --> 00:41:17.675
ahead positions closely
to forecasted amount

00:41:17.699 --> 00:41:21.495
the SPP market benefited
as a whole. Now again

00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.945
it's not apples to apples
and I'm not asserting that

00:41:23.969 --> 00:41:28.575
here. There are unique
elements to SPPs market

00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:31.086
design that are distinct from
ERCOT and they are also

00:41:31.110 --> 00:41:33.905
solving for issues with
price divergence which they

00:41:33.929 --> 00:41:37.960
have which we don't necessarily
have. Our forward market

00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:41.376
day ahead market projections
pretty closely conform

00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:46.245
on an average basis in
ERCOT. However, I believe

00:41:46.269 --> 00:41:48.405
it will be worth monitoring
this initiative because

00:41:48.429 --> 00:41:50.845
they're gonna be conducting
a lot of similar analyses

00:41:50.869 --> 00:41:56.285
on how these resources
perform and could comply

00:41:56.309 --> 00:42:01.245
with a broad high level
policy requiring intermittent

00:42:01.269 --> 00:42:04.965
resources to
participate and they had market

00:42:04.989 --> 00:42:07.945
at a minimum level and
thereby encouraging them to

00:42:07.969 --> 00:42:11.745
hedge some of their risk.
They're intermittentcy

00:42:11.769 --> 00:42:14.166
creates may well be
a viable path to addressing

00:42:14.190 --> 00:42:17.230
concerns that a high degree
of intermittentcy creates.

00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.535
And with that Mr Chairman
I will turn it back over

00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:21.675
to you.

00:42:21.699 --> 00:42:24.245
Thank you. Commissioner
Mcadams. That was thorough

00:42:24.269 --> 00:42:27.316
and informative.
That's very helpful, appreciate

00:42:27.340 --> 00:42:31.035
the work you put in on
that. You touched on some

00:42:31.059 --> 00:42:35.856
very very important topics.
Obviously the SPP

00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:42.195
efforts to reconcile
renewable with reliable are similar

00:42:42.219 --> 00:42:46.385
to ours, different mechanisms
how we get there, but

00:42:46.409 --> 00:42:49.276
a key issue for them as well.

00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:54.635
I'd also highlight what
you mentioned at the top

00:42:54.659 --> 00:42:59.456
of your presentation
regarding ERS and TDSPs

00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:04.265
reserve deployment
being constrained within EEA

00:43:04.289 --> 00:43:08.546
And I think that's a relic
of our crisis based business

00:43:08.570 --> 00:43:11.916
model that we certainly need
to move away from. I realize

00:43:11.940 --> 00:43:15.215
there's some contractual
obligations around those existing

00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:20.166
programs but going forward,
I've absolutely believe

00:43:20.190 --> 00:43:25.695
we need to move those
reserves out of EEA. So we

00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:29.305
don't, we get away from
this position of not being able

00:43:29.329 --> 00:43:32.945
to access the reserves
we need until we are deeper

00:43:32.969 --> 00:43:37.066
in crisis.
Yeah, I fundamentally
believe that, I believe

00:43:37.090 --> 00:43:40.506
that's the instruction
from the legislature of the

00:43:40.530 --> 00:43:43.916
policy makers that and
the people of Texas that

00:43:43.940 --> 00:43:46.916
they work for and thus
we work for. I believe we've

00:43:46.940 --> 00:43:51.066
got to move our tools out
of this very sequestered

00:43:51.090 --> 00:43:55.586
you know, paradigm
into, in a preventative

00:43:55.610 --> 00:43:58.695
mode, you know, it shouldn't
change the ultimate outcome

00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:02.796
for resources in a competitive
market. It should simply

00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:06.276
take
physical scarcity out of the

00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:09.976
mix. Okay. And there's
nothing in the laws of economics

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:13.236
or physics that says scarcity,
physical scarcity should

00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:16.166
should be the driver of
price. You know, you can

00:44:16.190 --> 00:44:19.385
create that artificially and
I know people are gonna

00:44:19.409 --> 00:44:22.309
wig out and get very
uncomfortable about that concept

00:44:22.690 --> 00:44:25.006
but at the end of the day,
ERCOT was always predicated

00:44:25.030 --> 00:44:26.995
upon there was gonna
be physical pain on the other

00:44:27.019 --> 00:44:32.010
end of these prices. But
you can signal to

00:44:32.389 --> 00:44:35.146
the consumers
of Texas that they need to

00:44:35.170 --> 00:44:37.436
turn down their thermostats
through high prices. That

00:44:37.460 --> 00:44:39.936
was a driving force
in many of the policies that

00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.500
we've considered over
the last 15 years, 20 years.

00:44:43.389 --> 00:44:48.210
So I mean, if that's through
the scarcity pricing mechanism

00:44:48.789 --> 00:44:52.236
that conversation,
I know that ERCOT is in

00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:55.526
a little bit of a, you
know, they're transitioning

00:44:55.550 --> 00:44:57.805
to the new board structure,
the new governance structure

00:44:57.829 --> 00:45:01.276
stakeholder processes are
gonna try to conform to this

00:45:01.300 --> 00:45:04.155
new governance body
that they have. But I think we

00:45:04.179 --> 00:45:06.265
need to start this
conversation sooner rather than

00:45:06.289 --> 00:45:09.226
later because it's going to
be important in the shoulder

00:45:09.250 --> 00:45:11.686
months going in and it
certainly will be in all of

00:45:11.710 --> 00:45:19.710
22.
Absolutely. Thoughts?
So appreciate your

00:45:20.570 --> 00:45:23.006
research, your input, your
thoughts on this, I think

00:45:23.030 --> 00:45:26.845
you're saying the right
things leading us the right

00:45:26.869 --> 00:45:29.316
way, these are issues that
we have to address again

00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:33.675
reliability. First, the
beauty of demand response

00:45:33.699 --> 00:45:36.285
and energy efficiency
programs are they affect price

00:45:36.309 --> 00:45:40.425
also if they're used at the
at the most opportune time

00:45:40.449 --> 00:45:43.715
which is the highest peak,
then guess what? They solved

00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:46.945
a reliability problem and
they help the price problem.

00:45:46.969 --> 00:45:50.345
So they're really good.
This transition in this electric

00:45:50.369 --> 00:45:53.000
industry has been going
on for about 30 years now.

00:45:53.690 --> 00:45:57.436
The original demand response
programs were interruptible

00:45:57.460 --> 00:46:02.385
rates that industrials had
that was it. And we

00:46:02.409 --> 00:46:05.916
use them
very infrequently. But as this

00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:09.586
market has grown to
different players, different

00:46:09.610 --> 00:46:13.356
financial models, we can
call on them, we can call

00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:16.896
on the residents, we can
call on the aggregators, we

00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:21.736
can call on all of these
different entities that

00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:24.956
are, that can
provide a demand response as

00:46:24.980 --> 00:46:27.765
long as one thing happens
and that is ERCOT knows

00:46:27.789 --> 00:46:32.925
that it's there and we can't
put ourselves in a position

00:46:32.949 --> 00:46:35.655
where we give them the
tools to call something that

00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:39.876
never shows up. And I
don't think that's the case

00:46:39.900 --> 00:46:42.345
I think those that want to
play in the demand response

00:46:42.369 --> 00:46:45.615
market will play in the
demand response market and

00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:48.175
they will be there. It's
an economic decision. It is

00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:52.995
valuable,
and the same thing

00:46:53.019 --> 00:46:55.816
with distributed generation,
it's obviously coming

00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:59.336
it's here, we gotta
adapt regulatory rule

00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.300
makings and such are many
times way behind the market

00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:07.345
and moving forward with
adapting that, whether

00:47:07.369 --> 00:47:10.546
it be interconnection
or you know, visibility.

00:47:10.570 --> 00:47:13.865
It's critically
important I think that we

00:47:13.889 --> 00:47:16.055
get a better understanding
of how the system works

00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:19.425
for reliability,
the people of Texas and

00:47:19.449 --> 00:47:22.965
DGs here. We just got a
better understanding and

00:47:22.989 --> 00:47:25.115
make the rules adapt to
something that can provide

00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:28.945
value again on an economic
basis and on a reliability

00:47:28.969 --> 00:47:33.546
basis. Thank you for your
work.
Agreed. And to echo

00:47:33.570 --> 00:47:36.599
what what you're saying
Commissioner Glotfelty.

00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:41.956
DGS here, demand responses
is also here and I think

00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:44.356
in order for ERCOT to
be able to use it effectively

00:47:44.380 --> 00:47:47.316
they need to have
visability into the benefits of

00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:51.535
both. And as we know ERCOT
operates at a transmission

00:47:53.001 --> 00:47:55.086
level basis but getting,
gaining more visibility

00:47:55.110 --> 00:47:57.506
into the distribution system
and perhaps the D. G.

00:47:57.530 --> 00:48:00.796
Interconnection standards
will move us in that direction

00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:04.090
to gain that visibility so
that ERCOT knows that those

00:48:04.570 --> 00:48:09.336
resources are there to
count on for reliability and

00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:12.925
then also to Commissioner
Mcadams and a great job at

00:48:12.949 --> 00:48:15.280
extensively looking at all
those very important issues

00:48:15.869 --> 00:48:19.635
and with respect to the ERS
program and the TDU

00:48:19.659 --> 00:48:22.889
load management programs
I think it's important to

00:48:23.469 --> 00:48:28.555
evaluate how we can
use those earlier in our

00:48:28.579 --> 00:48:31.956
operations and we've
received feedback on E. R. S to

00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:35.486
some degree and really trying
to understand what moving

00:48:35.510 --> 00:48:38.785
it up and gaining the benefits
from using ERS earlier.

00:48:38.809 --> 00:48:40.965
Also the TDU load management
programs. I'm glad you

00:48:40.989 --> 00:48:44.416
touched on that. That is a
directive on SB3 that

00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.646
the legislature wants us to
look at to see how we can

00:48:47.670 --> 00:48:50.856
better utilize those
programs during times of tight

00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:54.445
system conditions and
even an emergency. So I'm

00:48:54.469 --> 00:48:56.675
in agreement. We need
to start taking actions that

00:48:56.699 --> 00:48:59.836
are preventative rather
than reactive to were already

00:48:59.860 --> 00:49:03.356
in the brink of emergency
procedures are literally

00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:08.146
in them. And so thank you
very much for your update

00:49:08.170 --> 00:49:10.356
I think you highlighted some
very important information

00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:14.046
that we need to continue to to look at.

00:49:14.070 --> 00:49:16.945
Well put. Well, thank you
for the hard work and I

00:49:16.969 --> 00:49:19.706
know this effort will continue
with our next work with

00:49:19.730 --> 00:49:23.526
the upcoming work session
and I know you'll be deeply

00:49:23.550 --> 00:49:27.285
involved in the preparation
and that session given

00:49:27.309 --> 00:49:31.396
the work you put into
this and I appreciate all of

00:49:31.420 --> 00:49:34.526
your comments about the
fact that we need to embrace

00:49:34.550 --> 00:49:36.606
these new capabilities
that we didn't have 30 years

00:49:36.630 --> 00:49:41.006
ago, embrace the
technologies that enable us to be

00:49:41.030 --> 00:49:48.445
more reactive while also
establishing the same metrics

00:49:48.469 --> 00:49:51.075
of reliability and accountability
on the demand response

00:49:51.099 --> 00:49:53.115
side, that we're in the
process of establishing on the

00:49:53.139 --> 00:49:59.155
supply side. Thank
you again. Commissioner Cobos?

00:49:59.179 --> 00:50:04.460
You're up.
Yes. So thank you, Chairman Lake. So

00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:08.195
per your request at the July
29th open meeting, you've

00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:11.215
requested that I evaluate
options to accelerate transmission

00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:14.425
development to address
congestion and ensure reliability

00:50:14.449 --> 00:50:18.785
in the state, including exploring
DC ties to our neighboring

00:50:18.809 --> 00:50:23.095
regions. Over the last few
weeks, I have engaged in

00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:25.885
numerous discussions with
a number of stakeholders

00:50:25.909 --> 00:50:29.336
and done some extensive
evaluation of these important

00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:34.476
issues and also gathered
information at our work session

00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:36.756
that we had in July with
the transmission distribution

00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:39.726
utilities that I think was
very helpful to address

00:50:39.750 --> 00:50:42.226
this. This very important
issue that you've highlighted

00:50:42.250 --> 00:50:44.646
that I think has been the
directive from the legislature

00:50:44.670 --> 00:50:49.595
and also in the Governor's
letter. And so as I tackled

00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:54.675
this project for,
there's sort of the acceleration

00:50:54.699 --> 00:50:57.356
of the regulatory timeline
issue and what we can do

00:50:57.380 --> 00:51:00.126
as a Commission to shorten
that regulatory

00:51:00.150 --> 00:51:06.075
approval timeline process
and then also ways we can

00:51:06.099 --> 00:51:10.035
address the concerns that I
have heard from the transmission

00:51:10.059 --> 00:51:13.885
distribution utilities out
there, with respect to

00:51:13.909 --> 00:51:17.535
the timeline between when
transmission is built and

00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:21.526
when customer load is
cited, which is often referred

00:51:21.550 --> 00:51:25.369
to as the just in time
transmission development issues.

00:51:25.659 --> 00:51:30.690
So I will touch on those
two pieces and then also

00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.736
address

00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:36.296
Senate Bill 1281 which
contains some very important

00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:38.566
matters in there with respect
to evaluating economic

00:51:38.590 --> 00:51:43.135
and reliability criteria and
move over to specifically

00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:45.396
addressing the Rio Grande
Valley which I know has been

00:51:45.420 --> 00:51:48.445
about most importance
and attention from

00:51:48.469 --> 00:51:53.026
ercot and others. And then
give you some broad information

00:51:53.050 --> 00:51:56.515
on the DC Ties, so with respect
to the regulatory approval

00:51:56.539 --> 00:51:59.606
timelines.
Before you dive
in just for the record, you

00:51:59.630 --> 00:52:02.115
filed the memo on this.
I did file a memo, yes.

00:52:02.139 --> 00:52:05.405
That's what we're referencing.
Yes, thank

00:52:05.429 --> 00:52:09.106
you for noting that. So I
filed it under agenda

00:52:09.130 --> 00:52:15.186
item number 21 and so,
essentially as you look at

00:52:15.210 --> 00:52:20.046
the regulatory timeline as
it operates today, projects

00:52:20.070 --> 00:52:23.825
 that require
a CCN are tier one and tier two

00:52:23.849 --> 00:52:27.515
projects and tier one projects
are transmission projects

00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:31.586
that are equal to or greater
than $100 million. And

00:52:31.610 --> 00:52:35.486
Tier two projects are
projects that are less than $100

00:52:35.510 --> 00:52:40.445
million but still require a CCN from us,
from the Commission and that's

00:52:40.469 --> 00:52:44.526
typically when you're right
of way is needed. And so as

00:52:44.550 --> 00:52:47.506
a tier one and tier two
project, you will go through

00:52:47.530 --> 00:52:51.495
the ERCOT regional planning
group process which is

00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:55.186
a stakeholder group that
evaluates these projects.

00:52:55.210 --> 00:52:58.586
It's a nonvoting consensus
based group that evaluates

00:52:58.610 --> 00:53:02.936
the project, studies the
projects and with respect to

00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.869
the timeline that that
study review is conducted in

00:53:07.349 --> 00:53:09.695
there are some efficiencies
that can be gained there

00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:14.316
with respect to having the
TDUS, the transmission service

00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:17.986
providers rather and
ERCOT conduct the studies in parallel

00:53:18.010 --> 00:53:22.245
to save time or having
ERCOT and the TSP's conduct

00:53:22.269 --> 00:53:25.276
the studies together. ERCOT
has explored a concept

00:53:25.300 --> 00:53:29.086
of sending ERCOT staff to
the TSP's locations to work

00:53:29.110 --> 00:53:32.356
in concert together, to
develop the studies. However

00:53:32.380 --> 00:53:35.595
obviously the pandemic
and staffing issues have kind

00:53:35.619 --> 00:53:41.896
of put some impact
on that concept, you know

00:53:41.920 --> 00:53:45.336
ERCOT I think has staff
resources of transmission

00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:48.086
planning group that is
dedicated to working on these

00:53:48.110 --> 00:53:51.385
matters. But you know
they, in order to speed up this

00:53:51.409 --> 00:53:54.206
process from an ERCOT
individual independent review

00:53:54.230 --> 00:53:57.495
standpoint, I feel that they
feel that they need more

00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.059
resources to be able to
speed that up even further

00:54:00.510 --> 00:54:04.376
than it is right now and
then also with the studies

00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:06.686
you know to parallel or
do joint single studies. So

00:54:06.710 --> 00:54:09.936
those are the sort of
efficiencies that can be gained

00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:13.715
there when projects are

00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:18.745
evaluated through the RPG
process at ERCOt. Now projects

00:54:18.769 --> 00:54:22.416
don't have to go through
the ERCOT RPG process. The

00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.876
Commission has statutory
power under PURA to order

00:54:25.900 --> 00:54:29.695
the construction of
transmission. There are specifically

00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:32.385
three different provisions
in PURA that allow for the

00:54:32.409 --> 00:54:35.285
Commission to take that
action and one specifically

00:54:35.309 --> 00:54:39.515
applies to the exact
issue that we are looking at

00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:45.026
right now which is to order
transmission distribution

00:54:45.050 --> 00:54:48.245
utilities and electric
utilities to build transmission

00:54:48.269 --> 00:54:50.745
projects to ensure safe
and reliable service in the

00:54:50.769 --> 00:54:52.969
state and reduce
transmission rates at ERCOT.

00:54:54.340 --> 00:55:00.035
So can't skip the ERcot RPG
process altogether and order

00:55:00.059 --> 00:55:04.416
the construction however,
those projects will still

00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:08.956
need a CCN. So with
respect to our timeline whether

00:55:08.980 --> 00:55:11.606
the transmission project
goes through the ERCOT RPG

00:55:11.630 --> 00:55:17.670
process or not, CCNs 
to be issued under PURA

00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:21.575
for these projects and
there are three timelines,

00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:23.595
it's within one year from
the filing of the date of

00:55:23.619 --> 00:55:26.736
application for regular
reliability, economic and even

00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:31.175
D. C. Ties and for projects
that are deemed critical

00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:34.856
for reliability, that is 180
days from the filing date

00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:38.445
of the application and
projects that are deemed critical

00:55:38.469 --> 00:55:43.015
for reliability by ERCOT,
there is no set procedural

00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.360
criteria rather in the
protocols or guides. It's

00:55:46.739 --> 00:55:48.865
basically determined by
whether or not the project

00:55:48.889 --> 00:55:52.675
needs a CCN. The project
is reliability driven and

00:55:52.699 --> 00:55:55.445
without that designation
of critical for reliability

00:55:55.469 --> 00:55:57.956
that line wouldn't be built in
time to address the reliability

00:55:57.980 --> 00:56:03.086
need. So but with respect to
our broad statutory authority

00:56:03.110 --> 00:56:07.539
under PURA to order the
construction of transmission

00:56:08.030 --> 00:56:11.445
we would issue out of
CCN within 181 days from the

00:56:11.469 --> 00:56:16.416
filing date of the application.
So those are the timelines

00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:19.349
that are associated with the
regulatory approval process.

00:56:20.130 --> 00:56:28.130
So once a utility files a CCN
application at the Commission

00:56:28.730 --> 00:56:31.345
then there are additional
efficiencies. Procedural

00:56:31.369 --> 00:56:35.456
efficiencies that we may
want to consider to shorten

00:56:35.480 --> 00:56:39.155
that approval process.
And so as you see, I've listed

00:56:39.179 --> 00:56:43.416
some examples of procedural
efficiencies that would

00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:47.090
help shorten that time line
from our CCN approval process

00:56:47.929 --> 00:56:50.345
to more efficiently and
expeditiously process the

00:56:50.369 --> 00:56:54.885
CCN application. So I've
listed some eight examples

00:56:54.909 --> 00:56:59.276
that I think are worth
considering. They're allowable

00:56:59.300 --> 00:57:02.425
under our procedural rules
and there are other

00:57:02.449 --> 00:57:05.515
aspects to efficiencies that
we can explore. But these

00:57:05.539 --> 00:57:07.336
are the main examples
that I think I just wanted to

00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:11.106
kind of stick to for now.

00:57:11.130 --> 00:57:14.486
And I can work with Commission
Advising and you know

00:57:14.510 --> 00:57:17.376
look at what we can do
here. But basically essentially

00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:21.236
the goal would be to for
the Commission to take more

00:57:21.260 --> 00:57:24.796
of a hands on direction
on the procedural schedule

00:57:24.820 --> 00:57:27.936
when we refer those
cases via an order or referral

00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:32.610
to SOAH. inserting more
direction so that SOAh

00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:36.316
inserting more directions at SOAH<
so that SOAH can develop

00:57:36.340 --> 00:57:38.916
a procedural schedule that
complies with our directives.

00:57:38.940 --> 00:57:43.706
So to clarify, basically
put shot clocks on SOAH.

00:57:43.730 --> 00:57:46.506
Put deadlines on SOAH,
put guard rails on SOAH

00:57:46.530 --> 00:57:49.856
Because typically
whenever we refer a case

00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:53.215
to SOAH it's just an order
referral and the parties

00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:56.396
developed the procedural
schedules, right? So we would

00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:59.945
have a more proactive
role in our order referral of

00:57:59.969 --> 00:58:03.376
putting parameters as to
when we want things done and

00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:06.066
obviously, you know, working
with Commission advising

00:58:06.090 --> 00:58:08.995
and would have to engage
with SOAH and work with SOAH

00:58:09.019 --> 00:58:11.285
so they understand what we're
trying to get done. Obviously

00:58:11.309 --> 00:58:16.515
they have their own
schedules and how they address

00:58:16.539 --> 00:58:18.095
matters over there. So
they would need to hear from

00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.026
us and we would need to
to work with them in trying

00:58:20.050 --> 00:58:24.805
to get them to work with
our expectations. So what

00:58:24.829 --> 00:58:26.825
does that look like? Just,
you know, I don't want to

00:58:26.849 --> 00:58:29.686
spend too much time in
the details here, but that is

00:58:29.710 --> 00:58:32.675
essentially requiring
prehearing conference dates

00:58:32.699 --> 00:58:37.595
to occur earlier, with a
certain number of days

00:58:37.619 --> 00:58:42.095
after the order referral.
Maybe it's a week after motions

00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:44.659
to intervene. Typically
that, well, the deadline is

00:58:45.619 --> 00:58:48.489
typically 45 days from
the filing of the application.

00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:52.245
Shorten that down to maybe
30, having technical conferences

00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:55.436
so that the utility can address
common RFI responses

00:58:55.460 --> 00:58:58.666
shortened discovery
deadlines, short briefing deadlines.

00:58:58.690 --> 00:59:00.715
Just a host of things
that we can do to make the

00:59:00.739 --> 00:59:04.385
process more efficient,
essentially. And how we do that

00:59:04.409 --> 00:59:08.400
is plugging that into our
order referral. And you know

00:59:08.530 --> 00:59:11.465
that's that's one way to
tackle this issue from our

00:59:11.489 --> 00:59:16.986
standpoint and I can, if
you all are comfortable

00:59:17.010 --> 00:59:21.150
with this work with
Steven and his group and

00:59:21.619 --> 00:59:26.476
determine, you know, where
we can add these obviously

00:59:26.500 --> 00:59:28.425
in the order referral, but
making sure that, you know

00:59:28.449 --> 00:59:31.265
from our standpoint, we're
also comfortable with these

00:59:31.289 --> 00:59:34.495
timelines. And Stephen is
looking at me kind of interesting

00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.785
on, on his birthday with
his mask. So I did, it seems

00:59:37.809 --> 00:59:39.896
like I really do need to
work with Stephen on these.

00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:47.920
So that's essentially how we can

00:59:49.219 --> 00:59:51.595
tackle the regulatory
approval process. Either you

00:59:51.619 --> 00:59:54.816
know, we can make some
tweaks have ERCOT, give

00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:59.599
some directives to ERCOT
on study efficiency

01:00:00.439 --> 01:00:04.275
making sure they have
enough resources, we can on our

01:00:04.299 --> 01:00:07.294
end, on the CCN approval
process, have more directives

01:00:07.318 --> 01:00:10.504
on our procedural direction
in our order referrals

01:00:10.528 --> 01:00:14.194
to speed up to gain
efficiencies there and shorten

01:00:14.218 --> 01:00:16.314
help shorten that timeline
which are the little knobs

01:00:16.338 --> 01:00:19.395
we have or we can utilize
our broad statutory authority

01:00:19.419 --> 01:00:22.235
and order the construction
of transmission which would

01:00:22.259 --> 01:00:25.445
still need a CCN and we
could still turn the procedural

01:00:25.469 --> 01:00:32.665
knobs to hasten that process
so that's the acceleration

01:00:32.689 --> 01:00:36.374
of regulatory approval
process aspect of my memo in

01:00:36.398 --> 01:00:39.605
response to your request,
Chairman. And I'll pause there

01:00:39.629 --> 01:00:41.254
to see if you have any
questions before I move on to

01:00:41.278 --> 01:00:45.745
this next topic.
Thank you, Laurie. I think the most

01:00:45.769 --> 01:00:48.474
important thing I heard out
of a lot of good information

01:00:48.498 --> 01:00:53.014
was the ability of this
Commission to utilize its broad

01:00:53.038 --> 01:00:57.925
statutory authority to
develop transmission sooner

01:00:57.949 --> 01:01:01.254
rather than later to solve
those bottlenecks that we've

01:01:01.278 --> 01:01:07.245
got in this system. I think
we got very clear and robust

01:01:07.269 --> 01:01:09.544
direction from the legislature
and the Governor to

01:01:09.568 --> 01:01:14.075
use all of the tools at
our disposal to solve these

01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:17.174
problems sooner rather
than later. So I think that

01:01:17.198 --> 01:01:20.958
is incredibly important point.
Thank you for highlighting.

01:01:21.739 --> 01:01:25.764
Yes. So in consistence with
Governors bullet number

01:01:25.788 --> 01:01:28.124
four order ERCOT to
accelerate the development

01:01:28.148 --> 01:01:30.564
of transmission products
that increase connectivity

01:01:30.588 --> 01:01:33.228
between existing or new
dispatchable generation plants

01:01:33.739 --> 01:01:37.465
in areas of need. So the
reliability condition is clearly

01:01:37.489 --> 01:01:41.654
clearly conforms to that
direction. Shot clock's

01:01:41.678 --> 01:01:45.934
yeah, timelines, whatever,
going back to my telecom

01:01:45.958 --> 01:01:50.458
stuff. Yeah, no problem with
it. I mean, clear expectations.

01:01:51.139 --> 01:01:57.064
I think it would benefit
us to have a set structure

01:01:57.088 --> 01:02:02.484
for these reliability
designated projects.

01:02:02.508 --> 01:02:06.424
Within the parameters of
that need. So I think we would

01:02:06.448 --> 01:02:10.614
get a lot of juice out of that.

01:02:10.638 --> 01:02:13.345
It's an authority that the
legislature gave us, provided us

01:02:13.369 --> 01:02:16.704
and I'm not sure it's
been exercised at all or very

01:02:16.728 --> 01:02:21.548
minimally in the past. And
it specifically states that

01:02:21.939 --> 01:02:24.264
ordering transmission
construction to ensure safe and

01:02:24.288 --> 01:02:27.554
reliable service and to
address transmission constraints

01:02:27.578 --> 01:02:30.725
if they are not being
addressed through Chapter 37

01:02:30.749 --> 01:02:33.575
the regular CCN process
and out of ERCOT through

01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:36.815
stakeholder process. So I
thought that provision was

01:02:36.839 --> 01:02:42.035
very, very much focused
on what we're looking at right

01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:47.625
now. It sounds like we
need to start using it. So all

01:02:47.649 --> 01:02:50.794
right. So moving on
to the other important topic.

01:02:50.818 --> 01:02:54.018
Senate Bill 1281 which
was passed this past session.

01:02:54.738 --> 01:02:57.014
It contains various
provisions that I think we need

01:02:57.038 --> 01:03:00.994
to consider with respect
to timing and direction to

01:03:01.018 --> 01:03:07.044
market. The bill
contains new economic criteria

01:03:07.068 --> 01:03:10.155
test. And so it's essentially
what most people are

01:03:10.179 --> 01:03:15.655
calling a new consumer
benefits test. And, one point

01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:19.885
of discussion I wanted to have
with you today was whether

01:03:19.909 --> 01:03:23.174
or not we wanted to move
it based on your statutory

01:03:23.198 --> 01:03:26.625
interpretation or whether
or not we wanted to move

01:03:26.649 --> 01:03:30.258
forward with directing market
to start using that criteria

01:03:31.538 --> 01:03:34.285
before rulemaking is
conducted at the Commission and

01:03:34.309 --> 01:03:36.774
I know staff has it for
discussion at the beginning

01:03:36.798 --> 01:03:41.325
of this next year. And I'll
also add that, you know.

01:03:41.349 --> 01:03:44.375
ERCOT did say as they
communicated to me, was that

01:03:44.399 --> 01:03:48.165
if they were directed to
start using that new economic

01:03:48.189 --> 01:03:50.885
test, that they would have
to make some adjustments

01:03:50.909 --> 01:03:53.704
to the model and train
some staff, but they could do

01:03:53.728 --> 01:03:56.125
it within, you know, 23
months and be ready to use

01:03:56.149 --> 01:03:58.358
it while they await the
Commission to put in the rule.

01:03:58.939 --> 01:04:03.649
However, they would have
to have 2 questions answered.

01:04:04.219 --> 01:04:10.105
And that is whether the
Commission would want ERCOT

01:04:10.129 --> 01:04:13.864
to continue to use both tests,
both the existing production

01:04:13.888 --> 01:04:17.334
cost savings test and the
new consumer benefits test

01:04:17.358 --> 01:04:21.834
going forward. Or does the
Commission want ERCOT

01:04:21.858 --> 01:04:25.808
to just use the new consumer
benefits tests going forward

01:04:26.118 --> 01:04:28.685
They're currently reviewing
projects under the existing

01:04:28.709 --> 01:04:32.195
production cost savings
test that's in, well, that's

01:04:32.219 --> 01:04:34.625
required by the statute
but specifically described

01:04:34.649 --> 01:04:38.404
in our rule. But they would
like to know from

01:04:38.428 --> 01:04:43.135
us what our expectations
are on the test and then also

01:04:43.159 --> 01:04:47.295
how many years of
benefits with the transmission

01:04:47.319 --> 01:04:49.695
project need to show to
be able to pass the test, the

01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:53.714
new consumer benefits
test right now. On average

01:04:53.738 --> 01:04:58.175
for the production cost
saving tests, the project

01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:01.104
would have to show about
six years of benefits for

01:05:01.128 --> 01:05:03.545
it to pass the test. And so
they would need to know

01:05:03.569 --> 01:05:07.149
the timeline for the
benefits for that new test.

01:05:08.438 --> 01:05:14.014
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
Which part?
Start

01:05:14.038 --> 01:05:17.524
at the top. Broadly, but
then also on this kind of flow

01:05:17.548 --> 01:05:22.825
chart decision that we've
got to come to.
Well, I

01:05:22.849 --> 01:05:25.014
guess I have a
lot of thoughts and

01:05:25.038 --> 01:05:28.264
first of all, Commissioner
Cobos, I want to say a great

01:05:28.288 --> 01:05:30.735
job. I mean, I think we
don't have all the tools in

01:05:30.759 --> 01:05:33.045
the toolbox, but the ones
that we have, we need to

01:05:33.069 --> 01:05:36.495
use and we need to use
expeditiously and I think that

01:05:36.519 --> 01:05:39.875
all of us agree with that
and it's really how we're

01:05:39.899 --> 01:05:43.635
gonna make that happen
which is kind of the critical

01:05:43.659 --> 01:05:46.545
path item, both on projects
that have been filed and

01:05:46.569 --> 01:05:50.974
approved and ones that
are, you know, sitting here

01:05:50.998 --> 01:05:55.914
or sitting at ERCOT. I
won't pick on ercot, but

01:05:55.938 --> 01:05:59.654
I've historically thought
that ISOs and RTOs

01:05:59.678 --> 01:06:03.904
are places where transmission
projects go to die because

01:06:03.928 --> 01:06:06.144
their projects--
At least I didn't say at this time.
Right.

01:06:06.168 --> 01:06:13.195
They take too long. Just
in time transmission is like

01:06:13.219 --> 01:06:16.315
highways, you know, we're
in Austin, everybody knows

01:06:16.339 --> 01:06:20.904
just in time Highways
on I-35, it doesn't work. It's

01:06:20.928 --> 01:06:23.654
if you want to sit and park
there and there's an economic

01:06:23.678 --> 01:06:28.815
and a reliability consequence
and how we exercise this

01:06:28.839 --> 01:06:32.604
authority to order
transmission built, I think is a

01:06:32.628 --> 01:06:36.964
great tool to have. I think
we need to have some deep

01:06:36.988 --> 01:06:41.115
discussion about how we
find what tools we use to figure

01:06:41.139 --> 01:06:44.995
out what we want to order.
Is it modeling congestion?

01:06:45.019 --> 01:06:49.264
Is it a reliability report
from ERCOT? Is it

01:06:49.288 --> 01:06:52.764
entities coming in here
and telling us what they

01:06:52.788 --> 01:06:55.474
think we need that may be
economic, there are lots of

01:06:55.498 --> 01:06:59.255
different ways, and it
shouldn't just be, in my

01:06:59.279 --> 01:07:01.825
opinion, it shouldn't be
just ERCOT telling us one

01:07:01.849 --> 01:07:06.385
thing. They have a perspective,
a bureaucratic perspective

01:07:06.409 --> 01:07:10.058
at times and we want
to hear from everybody

01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:14.784
in transmission
development in a lot of places

01:07:14.808 --> 01:07:20.135
around the country,
time is of the essence.

01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:24.385
I think the legislature
basically made incumbent the,

01:07:24.409 --> 01:07:28.045
gave them their role to
build transmission in this

01:07:28.069 --> 01:07:33.865
state and where competitors
in that space can play

01:07:33.889 --> 01:07:37.565
I think is pretty limited
and that's their decision

01:07:37.589 --> 01:07:44.144
not ours, but for rates, we
gotta make these process is

01:07:44.168 --> 01:07:46.894
quick and predictable. And
there are some things that

01:07:46.918 --> 01:07:49.774
they do at the federal level
in terms of environmental

01:07:49.798 --> 01:07:52.558
reviews where you file a
lot more information up front.

01:07:53.038 --> 01:07:56.135
And they have predictable time frames

01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:59.945
and the proceedings are
understood and the outreach

01:07:59.969 --> 01:08:03.404
to affected landowners
is early in the process, not

01:08:03.428 --> 01:08:05.594
late in the process. All
of those things are really

01:08:05.618 --> 01:08:08.904
good and make it more
predictable for us to meet that

01:08:08.928 --> 01:08:12.584
timeline to get these projects
through the CCN process

01:08:12.608 --> 01:08:15.995
quicker. So those timelines
I think are absolutely

01:08:16.019 --> 01:08:21.625
right. You know, we gotta
hold the CCN applicants

01:08:21.649 --> 01:08:24.094
feet to the fire to make
sure that the notifications

01:08:24.118 --> 01:08:27.784
are done accordingly,
that and I'm not sure how

01:08:27.808 --> 01:08:31.495
many routes have to be
filed if there are alternate

01:08:31.519 --> 01:08:36.134
routes for these projects,
but sometimes in different

01:08:36.158 --> 01:08:38.734
regions you have to file a
preferred route and an alternate

01:08:38.758 --> 01:08:45.815
route and that makes things harder. The

01:08:45.839 --> 01:08:50.025
fact is that we have
control over the rulemaking

01:08:50.049 --> 01:08:53.645
process that, I'm sorry
the CCN process that

01:08:53.669 --> 01:08:55.758
we ought to make it,
we ought to make it fair,

01:08:56.738 --> 01:09:00.645
predictable and have a
very, you know, the outcome

01:09:00.669 --> 01:09:04.504
when it's going to happen
and give predictability

01:09:04.528 --> 01:09:07.809
to the industry so that we
can we can make that happen.

01:09:07.868 --> 01:09:12.614
I think the one other
thing that I would say is

01:09:12.638 --> 01:09:14.295
well, two other things.
First of all we're gonna get

01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:17.145
into DC ties and I
think that's a little bit of a

01:09:17.169 --> 01:09:19.945
different animal and I look
forward to that discussion

01:09:19.969 --> 01:09:23.244
as well. But there are also
things that can help expand

01:09:23.268 --> 01:09:27.584
our transmission system that
are not just new transmission

01:09:27.608 --> 01:09:31.504
lines. So there are new
technologies that are actually

01:09:31.528 --> 01:09:33.954
getting older, technologies
that deal with dynamic line

01:09:33.978 --> 01:09:37.935
rating and things like
this, that are technological

01:09:37.959 --> 01:09:41.244
sensors that can be put
on conductors to determine

01:09:41.268 --> 01:09:44.994
heat, wind speed, you know,
how much throughput can

01:09:45.018 --> 01:09:47.884
happen right now, it's done
through an algorithm, you

01:09:47.908 --> 01:09:51.874
know, how much based upon
contingencies, how much energy

01:09:51.898 --> 01:09:54.974
can flow through a
line reliably. If there are

01:09:54.998 --> 01:09:57.959
technologies out there that
can ensure more throughput

01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:01.145
we should encourage the utilities in our

01:10:01.169 --> 01:10:04.464
state to look at them,
to utilize them to report to

01:10:04.488 --> 01:10:09.734
us on how they work
and that's a valuable. It's

01:10:09.758 --> 01:10:12.815
not building transmission
lines, but it's better utilizing

01:10:12.839 --> 01:10:16.525
existing transmission
lines and existing resources

01:10:16.549 --> 01:10:21.295
to their fullest extent.
And then the one last thing

01:10:21.319 --> 01:10:26.915
that I thought was part
of this memo, you know

01:10:26.939 --> 01:10:30.675
I don't know how much
transmission has been built in

01:10:30.699 --> 01:10:35.754
this state within ERCOT
that was built for double

01:10:35.778 --> 01:10:38.758
circuits but was only
constructed to a single circuit,

01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.785
it might be a very, very
good exercise for us to

01:10:42.809 --> 01:10:45.864
better understand that it
might be nothing, it might

01:10:45.888 --> 01:10:50.158
be a few miles, it might
be a few 1000 miles, but

01:10:50.539 --> 01:10:53.094
if you're not buying new
rights of way and you're not

01:10:53.118 --> 01:10:58.758
forcing a landowner to
get into that engagement

01:10:59.138 --> 01:11:04.244
and it really is putting
additional conductors on existing

01:11:04.268 --> 01:11:08.354
towers, it might be
something that we can expedite

01:11:08.378 --> 01:11:11.925
quickly. And there may
be some other bill that's

01:11:11.949 --> 01:11:16.015
necessary, but that's
not too hard. You're still

01:11:16.039 --> 01:11:20.525
building mostly on
existing rights of way

01:11:20.549 --> 01:11:24.134
and as we want all of our
resources to be available

01:11:24.158 --> 01:11:27.949
all around the state, that's
what increases reliability.

01:11:28.439 --> 01:11:32.494
You can probably tell I'm kind
of a transmission construction

01:11:32.518 --> 01:11:37.825
guy. I like transmission because

01:11:37.849 --> 01:11:42.994
it provides reliability
and it increases, it lowers

01:11:43.018 --> 01:11:47.665
economics, it is the highway
for commerce of electrons

01:11:47.689 --> 01:11:52.065
and many, many years ago
when the utilities vertically

01:11:52.089 --> 01:11:56.094
integrated, utilities were
building nuclear plants

01:11:56.118 --> 01:11:59.474
and big coal plants, they
were always chastised for

01:11:59.498 --> 01:12:02.315
building for gold plating
their system, they were putting

01:12:02.339 --> 01:12:04.634
in higher voltage transmission
lines than they needed.

01:12:04.658 --> 01:12:08.508
They were building too much
lower voltage transmission.

01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:12.224
The fact is that none of
that is gold plated today

01:12:12.248 --> 01:12:15.815
100% of it is used.

01:12:15.839 --> 01:12:19.354
So gold plating a system
maybe a buzz word of the past

01:12:19.378 --> 01:12:22.685
but it's all gone. We have
to think forward looking

01:12:22.709 --> 01:12:26.254
we have to think about
higher capacity lines, maybe

01:12:26.278 --> 01:12:31.935
you know, I know Ercot
has 345 lines, but 500 kV

01:12:31.959 --> 01:12:37.685
lines, 765 lines. There are
huge values to those technologies

01:12:37.709 --> 01:12:41.254
that we should continue
to look at. And anyway,

01:12:41.278 --> 01:12:43.734
I'll get off the soapbox,
but I think you've

01:12:43.758 --> 01:12:47.104
done a great job and
you know, I agree with the

01:12:47.128 --> 01:12:51.525
way that you're going,
knowing that we need to use

01:12:51.549 --> 01:12:54.195
the tools in our toolbox and
we need to be expeditious

01:12:54.219 --> 01:12:56.964
about doing it.
Thank you, Commissioner Glotfelty.

01:12:56.988 --> 01:12:58.945
I really appreciate your
perspective, I know you

01:12:58.969 --> 01:13:01.858
have extensive experience in
the transmission construction

01:13:02.789 --> 01:13:08.254
industry and so, you
know, I heard a few things

01:13:08.278 --> 01:13:11.494
from you and I think one
is, you know, economics and

01:13:11.518 --> 01:13:14.035
reliability. I think it's it's
very important to note

01:13:14.059 --> 01:13:19.358
that as we look at economic
transmission projects that

01:13:19.738 --> 01:13:22.754
we address those in an
efficient manner because if

01:13:22.778 --> 01:13:27.134
we don't address the
economic aspect of transmission

01:13:27.158 --> 01:13:30.084
construction development,
then these projects ultimately

01:13:30.108 --> 01:13:34.204
turn into reliability
projects. So that's something

01:13:34.228 --> 01:13:41.055
that it's just the fact. Right?
So, you know, and that's

01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:46.015
why I wanted to bring up
the economic criteria test

01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:48.234
the new test that was
passed by the legislature.

01:13:48.258 --> 01:13:52.884
Because I want to make
sure that we are thinking about

01:13:52.908 --> 01:13:57.035
whether based on the
statutory interpretation, that

01:13:57.059 --> 01:14:01.714
of that language and that
was passed in SB 1281 that

01:14:01.738 --> 01:14:05.515
we are thinking whether we
should be addressing whether

01:14:05.539 --> 01:14:07.445
we should go ahead and
have ERCOT start reviewing

01:14:07.469 --> 01:14:11.099
those projects without a
rulemaking, move up the rulemaking

01:14:11.539 --> 01:14:15.134
make sure that we're
thinking about the economic

01:14:15.158 --> 01:14:18.285
test and how were how the
new one and how, when and

01:14:18.309 --> 01:14:21.775
how we're going to
use it, so that we can

01:14:21.799 --> 01:14:24.614
start looking at projects
under this new criteria that

01:14:24.638 --> 01:14:28.655
the legislature directed
us to utilize. So, one

01:14:28.679 --> 01:14:31.155
thought on that, I mean,
the consumer benefit test

01:14:31.179 --> 01:14:34.454
which is now part of 1281,
it wasn't a foreign concept

01:14:34.478 --> 01:14:37.854
I mean, they had done
this in the past. I mean, it

01:14:37.878 --> 01:14:41.658
changed during the Great
Houston import project battle.

01:14:42.238 --> 01:14:45.134
And so it's not like this is
an alien thing that ERCOT

01:14:45.158 --> 01:14:49.069
would consider. So I think
now again with the overarching

01:14:50.039 --> 01:14:53.624
policy goal of reliability
that we needed. But there's

01:14:53.648 --> 01:14:57.285
also this happy medium. I
mean Texas consumers, I think

01:14:57.309 --> 01:15:00.834
we recognize costs are
going up. I mean energy costs

01:15:00.858 --> 01:15:04.435
are gonna go up. Load is
growing like crazy, everything's

01:15:04.459 --> 01:15:09.145
electrifying. You know
we're gonna have more

01:15:09.169 --> 01:15:12.045
security within our system
and and I'm saying we're

01:15:12.069 --> 01:15:14.364
not going to have a capacity
market but I am saying

01:15:14.388 --> 01:15:16.775
that costs are going to
go up but they need to go

01:15:16.799 --> 01:15:19.765
up in a managed way, in a
prudent way, transmission

01:15:19.789 --> 01:15:23.445
costs included so that
consumer benefit test harkens

01:15:23.469 --> 01:15:26.204
back to another day of
ERCOT to where they did have

01:15:26.228 --> 01:15:29.258
it, they did evaluate it,
they could employ it. Now

01:15:29.638 --> 01:15:34.819
me personally, I think I would,
you know say move forward,

01:15:34.978 --> 01:15:39.354
you know if this is the
choice before us, use it,

01:15:39.378 --> 01:15:43.665
start employing it and
then we'll we'll formalize

01:15:43.689 --> 01:15:48.104
the rule. And so ercot
would prefer to be able to use

01:15:48.128 --> 01:15:51.295
both tests to continue to use
the production cost savings

01:15:51.319 --> 01:15:53.565
tests and the economic test
because they accomplished

01:15:53.589 --> 01:15:57.374
two different. They do accomplish
two different but one is a weight.

01:15:57.398 --> 01:16:00.604
I mean one is that kind of--
Well one of them I

01:16:00.628 --> 01:16:03.004
guess there's there's a
production cost savings tests

01:16:03.028 --> 01:16:05.124
and that's just moving
around cheaper generation to

01:16:05.148 --> 01:16:07.494
other parts of the state.
So that would address areas

01:16:07.518 --> 01:16:12.344
like West Texas with the
constraint solar and then

01:16:12.368 --> 01:16:17.134
the new consumer benefits
test is a way of addressing

01:16:17.158 --> 01:16:21.025
helping high demand areas
get cheaper generation.

01:16:21.049 --> 01:16:24.844
Dallas vs west Texas. So
in one hand production cost

01:16:24.868 --> 01:16:27.695
savings, addresses generation
slash congestion pockets.

01:16:27.719 --> 01:16:32.834
And on the other hand,
the new consumer benefits

01:16:32.858 --> 01:16:34.994
tests or consumer cost
savings test, however you want

01:16:35.018 --> 01:16:37.594
to describe it would
address load pockets. So they

01:16:37.618 --> 01:16:41.299
accomplish two different tasks.

01:16:41.449 --> 01:16:46.134
So their preference would
be to keep the consumer,

01:16:46.158 --> 01:16:48.825
keep the production cost
savings test but then also

01:16:48.849 --> 01:16:53.295
start using also use the
consumer benefits test. And

01:16:53.319 --> 01:16:55.344
that's something that
they would like. That's

01:16:55.368 --> 01:16:58.515
their preference but they
want to know from us how

01:16:58.539 --> 01:17:00.844
we want to move forward.
With both tests or just one

01:17:00.868 --> 01:17:04.114
test? I'll tell you what I'm,
as both of you have been

01:17:04.138 --> 01:17:06.648
going through your
presentations and the spirit of

01:17:07.539 --> 01:17:10.965
moving as fast as possible,
per legislative direction i'm

01:17:10.989 --> 01:17:14.455
making an action item
list and one of the items is

01:17:14.479 --> 01:17:17.705
to if you're willing to
work with ERCOT to come

01:17:17.729 --> 01:17:22.968
up with a menu of the
different versions of analysis.

01:17:23.739 --> 01:17:28.315
One of the tests only,
both of the test, the other

01:17:28.339 --> 01:17:31.975
tests only, pros and cons
of each or any other options

01:17:31.999 --> 01:17:35.205
that are out there. So we
can evaluate that as the

01:17:35.229 --> 01:17:38.325
Commission and see the
full range of options, know

01:17:38.349 --> 01:17:41.505
that, get some insight on
what works, what doesn't work

01:17:41.529 --> 01:17:45.334
on each one and make a
decision from there. Does that

01:17:45.358 --> 01:17:48.559
make sense? Yes, as long
as it doesn't take too long.

01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:51.965
As long as the market
analysis doesn't take too long.

01:17:51.989 --> 01:17:56.055
No, no, both the laying out
the menu of analysis tools

01:17:56.079 --> 01:17:59.545
and about the next.
I trust Commissioner Cobos that

01:17:59.569 --> 01:18:02.225
won't take too long.
No, I'm sure I will work with

01:18:02.249 --> 01:18:06.608
them to determine that
information to get that information

01:18:06.708 --> 01:18:09.795
from ERCOT for you and
I can report back on the

01:18:09.819 --> 01:18:11.904
next meeting. I don't think
it's gonna take too long

01:18:11.928 --> 01:18:14.424
to get it from the, or
sooner, the work session

01:18:14.448 --> 01:18:19.505
if you, as soon as you can
get that menu of different

01:18:19.529 --> 01:18:24.134
options on how we can
evaluate these new transmission

01:18:24.158 --> 01:18:28.844
projects, the sooner,
and if you want to, as soon

01:18:28.868 --> 01:18:31.475
as you get it, feel
free to follow a memo.

01:18:31.499 --> 01:18:33.674
So we don't have to wait
an open meeting for the rest

01:18:33.698 --> 01:18:36.565
of us to see it.
Right, right. I mean, and to be

01:18:36.589 --> 01:18:39.344
fair, I think really, how do
you address that? There's

01:18:39.368 --> 01:18:41.094
two ways of looking at
transmission projects. It's

01:18:41.118 --> 01:18:44.065
either the reliability lens
or an economic lens and

01:18:44.089 --> 01:18:46.874
the economic lens, you
have economic criteria that

01:18:46.898 --> 01:18:48.874
you look at it right now.
It's production cost savings

01:18:48.898 --> 01:18:51.065
and then the new tests
that got passed by the

01:18:51.089 --> 01:18:53.894
legislature. So there's
really just two lenses to look

01:18:53.918 --> 01:18:57.259
at economic transmission
projects that exists today,

01:18:57.938 --> 01:19:02.344
one that's already in
rule that coincides with the

01:19:02.368 --> 01:19:06.664
past statutory language and
then one that is new because

01:19:06.688 --> 01:19:11.315
1281 passed. So

01:19:11.339 --> 01:19:13.705
that's pretty clear cut for
me. So I'm not real sure.

01:19:13.729 --> 01:19:15.634
So we're going to do both
of them. We want to use

01:19:15.658 --> 01:19:17.805
both of them or do we just
want to use the economic

01:19:17.829 --> 01:19:21.975
reliability or the economic
criteria? If we're going

01:19:21.999 --> 01:19:24.305
to use both of them, how
do we weight each of those?

01:19:24.329 --> 01:19:27.144
Are they equally weighted?
Are they one weighted more

01:19:27.168 --> 01:19:30.154
than the other? So there's
a spectrum I think of how

01:19:30.178 --> 01:19:35.698
we implement these and
run that analysis. So let's

01:19:35.948 --> 01:19:40.825
let's get the fine print from
ERCOT on what the pros

01:19:40.849 --> 01:19:43.005
and cons of each one of
those scenarios look like.

01:19:43.029 --> 01:19:44.894
And I don't, I don't know
off the top of my head

01:19:44.918 --> 01:19:48.084
what any every one of
those scenarios is. But let's

01:19:48.108 --> 01:19:52.315
see the fine print. So
we can evaluate it. We

01:19:52.339 --> 01:19:55.654
want to do that quickly
for Jimmy's point, but let's

01:19:55.678 --> 01:19:58.958
make sure we've got the
full spectrum and stuff. Maybe

01:19:59.839 --> 01:20:03.775
a version of those tests
that we're not thinking about.

01:20:03.799 --> 01:20:06.325
Okay, it would be good to
see that. And then we can

01:20:06.349 --> 01:20:10.404
move quickly from there.
Yes. Okay. And I look forward

01:20:10.428 --> 01:20:12.965
to hearing their reasoning
behind this. I mean

01:20:12.989 --> 01:20:15.444
at the end of the day
we're not in the business of

01:20:15.468 --> 01:20:18.414
protecting little generator
fiefdoms in these

01:20:18.438 --> 01:20:21.205
these pockets. You know,
we need to relieve this

01:20:21.229 --> 01:20:24.545
pressure. We need to get
cheap power and frankly it'll

01:20:24.569 --> 01:20:27.535
be better for reliability
purposes as well for us to

01:20:27.559 --> 01:20:31.194
be able to have a fully
well integrated system that

01:20:31.218 --> 01:20:35.965
can be managed, you
know? So yeah, I'd like to

01:20:35.989 --> 01:20:39.515
hear their rationale behind this.
Okay, I will work

01:20:39.539 --> 01:20:41.444
with you to provide
additional information on that

01:20:41.468 --> 01:20:45.084
issue. The other portion
of that legislation I think

01:20:45.108 --> 01:20:47.444
we need to address is the
additional reliability criteria

01:20:47.468 --> 01:20:51.055
that was included in there.
And I think that language

01:20:51.079 --> 01:20:56.235
is straightforward in terms
of load forecasts, historical,

01:20:56.259 --> 01:20:59.555
actual and additional load
forecast. And we need to

01:20:59.579 --> 01:21:01.664
consider whether we
want to try to start utilizing

01:21:01.688 --> 01:21:06.715
that now without a
rulemaking, and also to add that

01:21:06.739 --> 01:21:09.594
a couple of things to that that I wanted

01:21:09.618 --> 01:21:15.215
to highlight that addressed
the customer load forecasting

01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:19.584
issue. And that is to
highlight that ERCOT currently

01:21:19.608 --> 01:21:22.914
has boundary thresholds that
are based on weather zones

01:21:22.938 --> 01:21:26.455
throughout the state. And
what that means is that ERCOT

01:21:26.479 --> 01:21:29.965
comes up with a customer
load forecast. A TSP comes

01:21:29.989 --> 01:21:33.584
up with their customer
load forecast and if the TSPs

01:21:33.608 --> 01:21:36.455
customer load forecast
falls within certain

01:21:36.479 --> 01:21:40.559
percentage range
ERCOT will use theirs. So,

01:21:41.039 --> 01:21:44.604
throughout the state it
was five and recently in the

01:21:44.628 --> 01:21:47.525
last couple of years ERCOT
increased that percentage

01:21:47.549 --> 01:21:52.124
from 5 to 7.5% for the far
west Texas zone, all the

01:21:52.148 --> 01:21:54.434
oil and gas development
that was going on out there

01:21:54.458 --> 01:21:57.884
and what that allows is for
by adjusting that percentage,

01:21:57.908 --> 01:22:01.368
you're able to account for
what the TSP's are seeing

01:22:01.938 --> 01:22:05.394
on the ground versus what
ERCOT sees. So, that's

01:22:05.418 --> 01:22:08.144
something to consider,
I just put that out there

01:22:08.168 --> 01:22:11.594
in terms of, if the Commission
wants to give ERCOT

01:22:11.618 --> 01:22:14.275
a directive to look at
those issues because

01:22:14.299 --> 01:22:17.235
right now, as I noted, it's
7.5% for the far west Texas

01:22:17.259 --> 01:22:20.414
zone and I put it on a map in my memo to

01:22:20.438 --> 01:22:22.325
highlight how the different
zones are broken up throughout

01:22:22.349 --> 01:22:28.815
the state, to see if
that boundary threshold

01:22:28.839 --> 01:22:32.444
should continue to be 5% in
certain weather zone throughout

01:22:32.468 --> 01:22:35.005
the state. Do we need
to increase those so that

01:22:35.029 --> 01:22:40.565
we can sort of help manage the
disconnect between transmission

01:22:40.589 --> 01:22:45.354
development and customer
citing. So it's my understanding

01:22:45.378 --> 01:22:48.475
that when they increased
the 7.5% out in far west Texas

01:22:48.499 --> 01:22:50.924
that did actually send
some additional transmission

01:22:50.948 --> 01:22:55.985
construction. So have
ERCOT include that in the menu

01:22:56.009 --> 01:22:59.394
of options and how we
integrate that into the analysis

01:22:59.418 --> 01:23:03.664
of new transmission
projects, pros and cons of what

01:23:03.688 --> 01:23:07.765
different, those
different metrics, different

01:23:07.789 --> 01:23:10.079
recipes on how those can
be combined and integrated.

01:23:10.388 --> 01:23:14.575
It may be multi step,
one test first and another. I

01:23:14.599 --> 01:23:16.644
would love to see some
options and suggestions and

01:23:16.668 --> 01:23:19.775
I would even ask them to
go one step farther and pick

01:23:19.799 --> 01:23:24.799
an existing or a proposed
transmission project, whatever's

01:23:25.638 --> 01:23:28.684
most ready baked--
--as an example--
--as an example and run

01:23:28.708 --> 01:23:32.354
through each of the analysis
scenarios. So we can see

01:23:32.378 --> 01:23:36.114
a real example of how
those different tests would

01:23:36.138 --> 01:23:40.545
work on a real project in real life.
So yes. And

01:23:40.569 --> 01:23:43.344
one thing before I move
on to the next highlight

01:23:43.368 --> 01:23:46.584
is that as I visited with
the numerous stakeholders

01:23:46.608 --> 01:23:49.065
obviously took a tour
throughout Texas, two different

01:23:49.089 --> 01:23:52.584
service territories of the TSPs, what

01:23:52.608 --> 01:23:55.874
I learned is that there
are certain TSPs out

01:23:55.898 --> 01:23:58.874
there that within their
service territories that have,

01:23:58.898 --> 01:24:01.269
that are experiencing
tremendous customer load growth.

01:24:01.938 --> 01:24:04.934
I think in general our
whole state is, right, but

01:24:04.958 --> 01:24:07.515
obviously the most populous
areas are with respect

01:24:07.539 --> 01:24:12.374
to just customer business
citing. Industrial customer

01:24:12.398 --> 01:24:17.735
citing. And so perhaps as we
have ERCOT evaluate these

01:24:17.759 --> 01:24:22.344
boundary threshold issues
is to maybe focus on certain

01:24:22.368 --> 01:24:26.444
areas that are experiencing
tremendous customer growth,

01:24:26.468 --> 01:24:31.759
load growth and see what
what a tweak would do to

01:24:32.339 --> 01:24:35.565
a tweak on that percentage
would do to foster the

01:24:35.589 --> 01:24:37.769
transmission development
that needs to occur out there

01:24:38.138 --> 01:24:43.134
actually makes a difference.
Sure.
Does anybody

01:24:43.158 --> 01:24:48.144
know where ERCOT gets
their data for load growth? I

01:24:48.168 --> 01:24:53.775
mean where they come up with--
 No, I'm sure we can get

01:24:53.799 --> 01:24:57.944
that.
But yeah I mean I wonder if there are

01:24:57.968 --> 01:25:00.205
lots of different organizations
that do these but I

01:25:00.229 --> 01:25:03.694
just I wonder what their
data source is. Is it similar

01:25:03.718 --> 01:25:06.825
to that of other agencies,
you know, that we use your

01:25:06.849 --> 01:25:09.525
your old board, the water
development board, they've

01:25:09.549 --> 01:25:12.225
got a pretty critical role
and, and population growth

01:25:12.249 --> 01:25:16.154
is a, you know, I'm sure
part of it, Yeah, big part

01:25:16.178 --> 01:25:18.255
of it. So I just don't
know the answer to this

01:25:18.279 --> 01:25:21.515
but, I wonder if there's
something that we could

01:25:21.539 --> 01:25:24.275
look at and help and and
massage in that regard that

01:25:24.299 --> 01:25:29.265
has them using the most
realistic forward thinking,

01:25:29.289 --> 01:25:32.094
I mean, I think, you know,
our population is growing

01:25:32.118 --> 01:25:35.545
we know that, the economy
is growing here because of

01:25:35.569 --> 01:25:39.834
our low taxes and our
business friendly environment,

01:25:39.858 --> 01:25:43.958
and we've got to prepare for
that, you know, expeditiously.

01:25:44.339 --> 01:25:47.965
Absolutely, I'm sure Christie
and ERCOT team can get

01:25:47.989 --> 01:25:50.914
that information to our office at the
earliest convenience. Commissioner

01:25:50.938 --> 01:25:55.285
Cobos, question on this.
Again, our wifi is so efficient

01:25:55.309 --> 01:25:57.705
here at the public utility
Commission. I can't pull

01:25:57.729 --> 01:26:02.305
up PURA. But somewhere
in Senate bill three at the

01:26:02.329 --> 01:26:05.775
end of it, I recall there
was a committee, it's not

01:26:05.799 --> 01:26:09.985
TERC, but there was a
group that was sort of modeled

01:26:10.009 --> 01:26:13.005
after the formulation of
the Statewide water plan.

01:26:13.029 --> 01:26:16.654
That's kind of the
way I read it, to look at

01:26:16.678 --> 01:26:21.174
reliability issues around
the state or, you know, the

01:26:21.198 --> 01:26:28.245
policy goal was to prioritize
state policies toward

01:26:28.269 --> 01:26:32.015
reliability and I don't
know if affordability was in

01:26:32.039 --> 01:26:35.094
there, might have been, but
in any case, is this something

01:26:35.118 --> 01:26:41.259
that that entity might
be harnessed for to and

01:26:42.319 --> 01:26:44.975
I'm invoking the CREZ model
and everybody calm down

01:26:44.999 --> 01:26:52.999
but to clarify how we designate
zones or areas, weather

01:26:54.398 --> 01:26:59.515
zones of Texas that have
high load growth and can

01:26:59.539 --> 01:27:03.114
look at that and give
us some focus on how a

01:27:03.138 --> 01:27:07.634
new expedited model might
apply moving forward into

01:27:07.658 --> 01:27:10.805
the future. Again, not with
any type of rubber stamped

01:27:10.829 --> 01:27:14.084
by the Commission, but
to where, you know, it falls

01:27:14.108 --> 01:27:17.305
within the parameters that
they create the need based,

01:27:17.329 --> 01:27:21.275
falls within the test that
ERCOT is statutorally

01:27:21.299 --> 01:27:26.124
directed to apply and then,
and then we could afford

01:27:26.148 --> 01:27:30.144
an additional tool from
an expedited CCN process.

01:27:30.168 --> 01:27:34.944
Is that a mechanism that
might work moving forward?

01:27:34.968 --> 01:27:37.684
Not that it would slow the
process down now, we clearly

01:27:37.708 --> 01:27:41.525
need some of this now.
Okay, potentially, and I say

01:27:41.549 --> 01:27:45.664
potentially only because
as we look at transmission

01:27:45.688 --> 01:27:48.475
development to address
reliably and economic issues

01:27:48.499 --> 01:27:50.854
throughout the state, I
think it's really important

01:27:50.878 --> 01:27:54.485
that, you know, we have
that expertise that we

01:27:54.509 --> 01:27:57.414
need to look at, the technical,
the engineering expertise

01:27:57.438 --> 01:28:00.344
to look at the transmission
development throughout

01:28:00.368 --> 01:28:04.285
the state. I don't know
how that, I think that that

01:28:04.309 --> 01:28:07.265
body that you're referring
to in SB3 how, what

01:28:07.289 --> 01:28:11.094
kind of membership it's
going to have, and I think

01:28:11.118 --> 01:28:13.614
in the spirit of trying to
get things done quickly,

01:28:13.638 --> 01:28:17.049
I think this is, my initial
response would be

01:28:17.638 --> 01:28:22.084
that we take control of, you know.
And I totally agree

01:28:22.108 --> 01:28:25.705
and I'm not, that's why
I have a lot of caveats in

01:28:25.729 --> 01:28:29.834
that statement, but just in the
long term as we experienced

01:28:29.858 --> 01:28:32.624
this vast load growth,
you know, in different parts

01:28:32.648 --> 01:28:35.715
of Texas and it's shifting
around south Texas, is the

01:28:35.739 --> 01:28:38.674
issue du jour today west
Texas was that, you know,

01:28:38.698 --> 01:28:43.275
still going on right now?
But depending on where

01:28:43.299 --> 01:28:47.094
these crypto miners
settle and stuff like that, it'll

01:28:47.118 --> 01:28:50.575
be new, new constraints,
but this body, if we

01:28:50.599 --> 01:28:52.634
just have an extra set of
eyes that has more of a

01:28:52.658 --> 01:28:55.745
comprehensive plan akin
to an infrastructure model

01:28:55.769 --> 01:28:59.164
that, you know, the chair's
all too accustomed to how

01:28:59.188 --> 01:29:01.505
that plays into this. So it
might be something as you

01:29:01.529 --> 01:29:05.765
ask ERCOT and go into
it. Is that something we

01:29:05.789 --> 01:29:09.725
should consider as the rule
opens up and we build around

01:29:09.749 --> 01:29:13.755
that?
Two good things to take away from that.

01:29:13.779 --> 01:29:17.414
Let's see what the current
version is and two as the

01:29:17.438 --> 01:29:20.349
appointments come in for the
TERC and the other committee

01:29:20.829 --> 01:29:23.215
that's something we can
coordinate with those folks

01:29:23.239 --> 01:29:27.124
on. I know those are

01:29:27.148 --> 01:29:31.075
being worked on as we speak.
Okay, so I wanted

01:29:31.099 --> 01:29:34.025
to highlight a recent
planning guide revision

01:29:34.049 --> 01:29:37.205
requests that ERCOT
filed, (indistinct) 095 which

01:29:37.229 --> 01:29:42.305
essentially ERCOT filed to
that addresses the Governor's

01:29:42.329 --> 01:29:45.368
directive also with respect
to bottled up generation

01:29:45.739 --> 01:29:49.305
and essentially what what
this pigger does, What it's

01:29:49.329 --> 01:29:52.815
intended to do is to allow
for the full dispatchability

01:29:52.839 --> 01:29:57.394
of dispatchable generation.
And so ERCOT through

01:29:57.418 --> 01:29:59.864
this picture will be modifying
its transmission planning

01:29:59.888 --> 01:30:01.944
process to ensure that
dispatchable generation is

01:30:01.968 --> 01:30:05.525
fully dispatched and
can get out, it's not bottled

01:30:05.549 --> 01:30:10.434
up, so maximizing the
dispatchability of dispatchable

01:30:10.458 --> 01:30:14.154
generation is what I
believe the Governor asked

01:30:14.178 --> 01:30:17.065
us to also look at in his
letter to the Commission.

01:30:17.089 --> 01:30:20.354
So I wanted to highlight
that, that is initiative--

01:30:20.378 --> 01:30:25.424
In process.
Absolutely. And then as you mentioned.

01:30:25.448 --> 01:30:27.854
Commissioner Mcadams,
Yes, I did note the Rio Grande

01:30:27.878 --> 01:30:30.515
Valley, that is an area
that has been very important

01:30:30.539 --> 01:30:36.215
much of discussion
recently. And so I have spent

01:30:36.239 --> 01:30:39.985
some time looking at that
area and especially as a

01:30:40.009 --> 01:30:43.265
result of that TDU work session
we had, where we discovered

01:30:43.289 --> 01:30:45.658
that there are, to your
point earlier, Commissioner

01:30:45.739 --> 01:30:49.854
Glotfelty, 345 WB transmission
lines that are double circuit

01:30:49.878 --> 01:30:55.644
capable that only have
one line on them. And so if

01:30:55.668 --> 01:31:01.434
you look at the map,
there's there is a, basically a

01:31:01.458 --> 01:31:06.275
transmission, existing
345 transmission line that

01:31:06.299 --> 01:31:10.584
runs from San Miguel
literally all the way down to

01:31:10.608 --> 01:31:18.608
Palmetto. And so that
entire line is 345KV.

01:31:20.138 --> 01:31:24.015


01:31:24.039 --> 01:31:29.265
Double circuit capable
with just one line. And so I

01:31:29.289 --> 01:31:32.769
think it is important for
the Commission to look at

01:31:33.539 --> 01:31:35.995
whether adding that second
line will create additional

01:31:36.019 --> 01:31:38.584
transmission capacity and
operational reliability benefits.

01:31:38.608 --> 01:31:43.134
I see this as near term
solutions that can be taken,

01:31:43.158 --> 01:31:46.834
addressed by the Commission
to ensure that there is

01:31:46.858 --> 01:31:50.295
more transmission
capacity, into the Valley and

01:31:50.319 --> 01:31:55.965
so and out of, import and
export. And so we have

01:31:55.989 --> 01:31:59.194
two options here, I think,
I think, you know, ERCOT

01:31:59.218 --> 01:32:01.975
would like to, we can
direct ERCOT and the TSPs

01:32:01.999 --> 01:32:04.654
that own those lines
to study the reliability

01:32:04.678 --> 01:32:07.525
and operational benefits
of adding that second line

01:32:07.549 --> 01:32:11.604
to the double circuit lines.
And also another piece

01:32:11.628 --> 01:32:15.114
is that, that sort of a
shorter line is to create

01:32:15.138 --> 01:32:19.259
a new 345 KV line that would
essentially connect Palmetto

01:32:19.739 --> 01:32:22.414
back to North Edinburgh.
That's something that I

01:32:22.438 --> 01:32:24.624
think they probably should
study. It's a short kind

01:32:24.648 --> 01:32:27.184
of a shorter line that
closes, closes the loop down

01:32:27.208 --> 01:32:32.255
their new build and have
market and the TSP study

01:32:32.279 --> 01:32:36.104
those transmission
solutions that I believe are

01:32:36.128 --> 01:32:38.104
near term low hanging
fruit that we could at least

01:32:38.128 --> 01:32:40.065
look at to see if there
are reliability operational

01:32:40.089 --> 01:32:45.114
benefits and based
on their studies, then

01:32:45.138 --> 01:32:47.815
you know, determine
whether, you know, it's a

01:32:47.839 --> 01:32:51.874
good idea to move forward
with the transmission build

01:32:51.898 --> 01:32:54.854
out, that's what the process would look

01:32:54.878 --> 01:32:57.975
like. Of course we can
get additional information

01:32:57.999 --> 01:33:01.154
from ERCOT and we
can order them to build.

01:33:01.178 --> 01:33:04.045
You were reading my mind,
your very important point

01:33:04.069 --> 01:33:06.654
earlier about this Commission's
ability and its broad

01:33:06.678 --> 01:33:10.545
statutory authority to direct
the construction of these

01:33:10.569 --> 01:33:16.315
lines. What is in the
spirit of taking action

01:33:16.339 --> 01:33:19.965
to solve these problems on
balance? Why wouldn't we

01:33:19.989 --> 01:33:22.985
use, I'm sure there's some
existing studies that provide

01:33:23.009 --> 01:33:28.749
some analysis. What, why
wouldn't we use that authority

01:33:28.809 --> 01:33:33.194
on what you said is low hanging fruit?
I wanted to

01:33:33.218 --> 01:33:37.075
bring this to your attention
and get your input with

01:33:37.099 --> 01:33:41.084
respect to taking action,
directing ERCOT to conduct

01:33:41.108 --> 01:33:44.418
the studies or utilize a
broad statutory authority.

01:33:44.479 --> 01:33:47.745
One thing I will note ERCOT
said that you know you

01:33:47.769 --> 01:33:50.305
do, if you do have those
lines being built it is important

01:33:50.329 --> 01:33:52.594
that those that the outages
are managed because it

01:33:52.618 --> 01:33:57.455
is a very sensitive area.
That the new lines, their

01:33:57.479 --> 01:33:59.985
preference would be for
those lines to be built without

01:34:00.009 --> 01:34:02.154
serious compensation because
of the interaction between

01:34:02.178 --> 01:34:04.795
the doing generation and
serious compensation on those

01:34:04.819 --> 01:34:08.435
lines that caused some
problems already. So just

01:34:08.459 --> 01:34:12.714
things to consider.

01:34:12.738 --> 01:34:15.705
Because I would just say
in light of what we've seen

01:34:15.729 --> 01:34:18.714
in New Orleans and what's
going on with New Orleans

01:34:18.738 --> 01:34:22.564
with Louisiana and their
transmission system, you

01:34:22.588 --> 01:34:25.575
know having multiple lines
that are going in and out

01:34:25.599 --> 01:34:31.225
of the Valley improve
reliability, and you know if

01:34:31.249 --> 01:34:34.855
the line that you're talking
about where you hang a

01:34:34.879 --> 01:34:39.515
second circuit gets done,
that may not preclude another

01:34:39.539 --> 01:34:43.674
line from being built. We
may need both, if a hurricane

01:34:43.698 --> 01:34:47.035
comes through south Texas, we may need

01:34:47.059 --> 01:34:49.904
all of the resources to
get that part in the state

01:34:49.928 --> 01:34:52.875
back up and running. And
I just think that we should

01:34:52.899 --> 01:34:57.435
think of those as all part
of the solution. Not just

01:34:57.459 --> 01:34:59.805
one of them solves the problem,
it might solve the problem

01:34:59.829 --> 01:35:03.734
today. So I think we've
got near term solutions,

01:35:03.758 --> 01:35:06.415
we've got long term solutions
and ERCOT has in fact

01:35:06.439 --> 01:35:10.515
developed a new proposal
for a new transmission

01:35:10.539 --> 01:35:13.754
build out into the Valley
and they will be providing

01:35:13.778 --> 01:35:15.694
that proposal this month
at their regional planning

01:35:15.718 --> 01:35:21.258
group meeting, and their
goal is to have a transmission

01:35:22.238 --> 01:35:24.658
build out into the Valley
that's hurricane resilient

01:35:25.138 --> 01:35:28.814
and also addresses the
import and GTC issues in the

01:35:28.838 --> 01:35:33.535
area.
So do we want to wait for that or is

01:35:33.559 --> 01:35:36.585
this question of, and to
your point is it a question

01:35:36.609 --> 01:35:39.444
of ordering an expedited
study and analysis? You know

01:35:39.468 --> 01:35:42.674
that shows weight to the
need, because again, we

01:35:42.698 --> 01:35:44.765
have the abilities through
the broad authority we

01:35:44.789 --> 01:35:47.769
have to speed things up,
so do we want to do that?

01:35:50.599 --> 01:35:54.835
I think our default setting
needs to be action to get

01:35:54.859 --> 01:35:56.955
results sooner rather
than later and if we need to

01:35:56.979 --> 01:36:01.734
tap the brakes, we can
do that. But my action list

01:36:01.758 --> 01:36:06.285
is growing.
I would say and if you're willing

01:36:06.309 --> 01:36:10.125
in conjunction with your effort to get

01:36:10.149 --> 01:36:12.585
a menu of analysis, transmission,
new product transmission

01:36:12.609 --> 01:36:16.134
project analysis, in
addition to that, would you as

01:36:16.158 --> 01:36:21.504
part of working with
ERCOT, would you get,

01:36:21.528 --> 01:36:29.444
one the, I guess all the
fine print and a process

01:36:29.468 --> 01:36:32.004
of what we need to do
to get the two projects you

01:36:32.028 --> 01:36:37.444
just mentioned, the
double circuit or the double

01:36:37.468 --> 01:36:40.395
line, down to Palmetto
and then the Palmetto to the

01:36:40.419 --> 01:36:44.048
Rio Hondo to North
Edinburgh. But what does it,

01:36:45.229 --> 01:36:48.515
well, you and your staff
working with ERCOT, aggregate,

01:36:48.539 --> 01:36:54.995
give us every step we need
to take to put those wheels

01:36:55.019 --> 01:36:58.875
into motion and move that
forward and we'll, including

01:36:58.899 --> 01:37:02.564
existing analysis, existing
study, and if we, then

01:37:02.588 --> 01:37:05.825
we can assess that, if we
need to do additional studies

01:37:05.849 --> 01:37:09.448
expedite studies, we
can assess it at that point.

01:37:09.928 --> 01:37:12.185
But let's see what information
analysis we've got now

01:37:12.209 --> 01:37:16.384
on both of those projects
and what it would take to utilize

01:37:16.408 --> 01:37:19.404
the Commission's

01:37:19.428 --> 01:37:21.875
overarching authority to
order the construction of

01:37:21.899 --> 01:37:28.805
these lines as soon as possible.

01:37:28.829 --> 01:37:31.975
Got it. Thank you. Appreciate
the feedback. Anything

01:37:31.999 --> 01:37:35.504
else?

01:37:35.528 --> 01:37:38.504
Thank you. You put a
tremendous amount of work

01:37:38.528 --> 01:37:43.844
in this and this is a hugely
important part of enhancing

01:37:43.868 --> 01:37:47.805
our reliability.
Absolutely. And I have one last piece

01:37:47.829 --> 01:37:50.415
that I don't want to take
too much time on. But

01:37:50.439 --> 01:37:52.758
you know, you had also
asked me to look into DC ties

01:37:53.129 --> 01:37:56.145
and I wanted to highlight
that currently we have three

01:37:56.169 --> 01:38:02.214
DC ties that are in
operation. 2 to SPP Oakland

01:38:02.238 --> 01:38:05.325
Union and east, the East
tie. And then one the Railroad

01:38:05.349 --> 01:38:10.234
tie from Mexico in the
valley. And I included some

01:38:10.258 --> 01:38:12.794
just general background
information as to you know

01:38:12.818 --> 01:38:15.035
how much transmission
capacity they both carry, the

01:38:15.059 --> 01:38:17.349
year they were built and
what region they're going into.

01:38:17.718 --> 01:38:19.955
And the regulatory
steps that would need to

01:38:19.979 --> 01:38:23.605
be taken if you were to
evaluate a transmission

01:38:23.629 --> 01:38:27.814
a DC tie from market
to a neighboring ISO

01:38:27.838 --> 01:38:32.924
RTO and also from
ERCOT to Mexico. And also

01:38:32.948 --> 01:38:36.955
noting that you know with
respect to, you had asked

01:38:36.979 --> 01:38:41.585
me to look into a tie from
ERCOT to MISO. That ERCOT

01:38:41.609 --> 01:38:44.765
has conducted a study in
the past and has highlighted

01:38:44.789 --> 01:38:47.134
to me that there are cost
allocation and modeling differences

01:38:47.158 --> 01:38:51.424
between ERCOT and MISO.
That just basically different

01:38:51.448 --> 01:38:55.798
market rules that would need
to somehow be made consistent

01:38:55.919 --> 01:39:02.004
to facilitate such a construction.
So you know obviously

01:39:02.028 --> 01:39:04.674
protecting our first
jurisdiction, you know protecting

01:39:04.698 --> 01:39:10.265
our ERCOT market from
FERC jurisdiction is been

01:39:10.289 --> 01:39:12.415
the most important for
the Commission, historically

01:39:12.439 --> 01:39:16.725
continues to be getting a
FERC disclaimer of jurisdiction

01:39:16.749 --> 01:39:20.129
is key obviously to any
future DC tie construction.

01:39:20.519 --> 01:39:24.645
Also if you the line
would be going to Mexico

01:39:24.669 --> 01:39:26.855
you would need a presidential
permit from the Department

01:39:26.879 --> 01:39:30.245
of Energy.
And we would need the cost allocation

01:39:30.269 --> 01:39:33.904
and modeling differences
reconciled with Miso for an

01:39:33.928 --> 01:39:38.285
enhancement to the DC
tie or a bypassable, a bypass

01:39:38.309 --> 01:39:43.344
line, sort of this circuit
breaker type you know idea.

01:39:43.368 --> 01:39:47.274
I'm just talking about a
traditional tie. Traditional

01:39:47.298 --> 01:39:51.895
DC tie because again that would
be commercial use. Commercial

01:39:51.919 --> 01:39:55.435
and reliability. I mean it
depends how this D. C. tie

01:39:55.459 --> 01:39:57.694
is built and what our
direction is. But ultimately

01:39:57.718 --> 01:39:59.464
and I do want to touch on that a bit

01:39:59.488 --> 01:40:03.504
because no matter, you
know whether the DC tie is

01:40:03.528 --> 01:40:07.734
going from ERCOT to MISO
or ERCOT to SPP or even

01:40:07.758 --> 01:40:10.475
to WEC, we gotta make
sure it works with the market

01:40:10.499 --> 01:40:13.154
rules in terms of cost
allocation and modeling

01:40:13.178 --> 01:40:16.634
for it to be a reliable
line at the end of

01:40:16.658 --> 01:40:21.075
the day or with the senate
investigate. Right? So

01:40:21.099 --> 01:40:23.555
I just want to highlight
the regulatory steps that

01:40:23.579 --> 01:40:28.944
that have been taken to
build these lines from ERCOT

01:40:28.968 --> 01:40:33.428
to our neighboring regions.
And also to highlight that

01:40:34.109 --> 01:40:35.915
you know, we got to take
into consider reliability

01:40:35.939 --> 01:40:38.475
versus costs. You
know, these are a little bit

01:40:38.499 --> 01:40:43.964
more expensive of
transmission facilities and to note

01:40:43.988 --> 01:40:47.844
that these ties can be
used to import power during

01:40:47.868 --> 01:40:50.975
emergency conditions. But
if our neighbouring regions

01:40:50.999 --> 01:40:53.484
are also experiencing
emergency conditions that the

01:40:53.508 --> 01:40:56.075
ties are cut off as we
experienced during winter storm

01:40:56.099 --> 01:41:00.814
Yuri with all three
lines, 2 to SPP and the 1

01:41:00.838 --> 01:41:04.524
to Mexico, but just to take
into consideration as we

01:41:04.548 --> 01:41:07.995
look at DC ties as a
reliability solution to help

01:41:08.019 --> 01:41:10.855
enhance reliability. You
know, you want to keep that

01:41:10.879 --> 01:41:15.415
in mind as well, as we move forward.
Fair point.
Are there

01:41:15.439 --> 01:41:18.105
any DC lines that we've
approved that have not been

01:41:18.129 --> 01:41:22.935
built either going east
or west or south? Yes, the

01:41:22.959 --> 01:41:26.314
southern cross transmission
project has, in fact, it's

01:41:26.338 --> 01:41:29.355
a merchant tie. It's a
merchant dc tie that is being

01:41:29.379 --> 01:41:33.729
built by I believe, Pattern
and Garland and the PUC

01:41:34.109 --> 01:41:36.754
issued a CCN. There was
legislation that was passed

01:41:36.778 --> 01:41:40.895
in 2015 that requires
the PUC to issue of CCN

01:41:40.919 --> 01:41:44.559
for DC ties and so with
respect in response to that

01:41:44.818 --> 01:41:48.145
legislation that was
passed, Southern Cross got

01:41:48.169 --> 01:41:53.415
a CCN from ERcot and
given the direction in that

01:41:53.439 --> 01:41:55.825
CCN order they are currently
working with ERCOT as

01:41:55.849 --> 01:41:57.395
you've probably seen through
your board meetings or a

01:41:57.419 --> 01:42:00.468
set of directives that
puc included in their order

01:42:01.198 --> 01:42:04.134
to ERCOT to help
accommodate that tie. And that's

01:42:04.158 --> 01:42:05.875
what they've been working
on for the last several years

01:42:05.899 --> 01:42:09.718
there, they have also received
a disclaimer of FERC jurisdiction.

01:42:10.499 --> 01:42:14.205
important.
I think the optimal words that you just

01:42:14.229 --> 01:42:19.218
said was for the last
few years, which is

01:42:19.798 --> 01:42:23.314
you know, these processes,
if we want to use our

01:42:23.338 --> 01:42:26.594
authority, we can't let
them get bogged down in

01:42:26.618 --> 01:42:31.384
a multi stakeholder
process at ERCOT, it just

01:42:31.408 --> 01:42:34.114
takes too long. Everybody
needs to have their say

01:42:34.138 --> 01:42:37.665
it's a big market, but
we have to hold their

01:42:37.689 --> 01:42:40.214
feet to the fire to get
these things done, if we've

01:42:40.238 --> 01:42:44.654
approved it and we've
allowed, we've received

01:42:44.678 --> 01:42:47.118
a letter from FERC, you
know, just claiming jurisdiction,

01:42:47.599 --> 01:42:51.088
God forbid, let's go. It may
not have solved the problem

01:42:51.439 --> 01:42:54.535
in February, but it may
solve the next one. I mean

01:42:54.559 --> 01:42:58.435
we can't look at these
weather events as static, one

01:42:58.459 --> 01:43:02.185
time, build transmission
one time, they are going to

01:43:02.209 --> 01:43:04.955
happen again and again.
And I think that as we build

01:43:04.979 --> 01:43:08.364
a more robust system
that has optionality to it, we

01:43:08.388 --> 01:43:11.745
are increasing reliability
to consumers. So I'm a fan

01:43:11.769 --> 01:43:14.645
of DC lines, I'm a fan
of DC ties. I think they

01:43:14.669 --> 01:43:19.575
add, the newer technology
can add a tremendous

01:43:19.599 --> 01:43:23.535
amount of voltage
support and support to the

01:43:23.559 --> 01:43:26.725
transmission elements,
and that's great. And

01:43:26.749 --> 01:43:29.504
you know, if we want to
continue to be the best place

01:43:29.528 --> 01:43:32.094
to do business, we're going
to have to have, you know

01:43:32.118 --> 01:43:35.645
that type of a system that
is technologically advanced

01:43:35.669 --> 01:43:39.225
and reliable and economic.
And if DC lines, which I

01:43:39.249 --> 01:43:41.395
think should be part of it,
we should, we should be

01:43:41.419 --> 01:43:45.835
part of it and get that
one as one of them, you

01:43:45.859 --> 01:43:48.694
know, across the finish
line and, you know, that's

01:43:48.718 --> 01:43:51.734
my view, but, you know,
hold the feet to the fire,

01:43:51.758 --> 01:43:55.355
hold the ERCOT, get the
things done and get on with it.

01:43:55.379 --> 01:43:58.504
I also think it's important
to draw a bright line nuance

01:43:58.528 --> 01:44:03.535
between an economic DC
tie which can be used for

01:44:03.559 --> 01:44:08.754
economic purposes and
a bypass reliability tie that

01:44:08.778 --> 01:44:12.614
both ISOs get resiliency out of and FERC

01:44:12.638 --> 01:44:16.519
and in the event of a
black start scenario. So

01:44:16.599 --> 01:44:23.154
I think they're not
intertwined right now, and do

01:44:23.178 --> 01:44:26.774
not need to be
intertwined. It's like, it's

01:44:26.798 --> 01:44:30.734
not mutually exclusive. And
so I think we need to proceed

01:44:30.758 --> 01:44:33.015
with that in mind too,
especially when you start talking

01:44:33.039 --> 01:44:36.585
about because that's where it
bogs down is the commercial

01:44:36.609 --> 01:44:39.404
when the ISOS get into
the negotiations between

01:44:39.428 --> 01:44:42.325
SPP or MISO when they
have to approve, like okay how

01:44:42.349 --> 01:44:44.714
does this work when we
get into scarcity conditions?

01:44:44.738 --> 01:44:48.614
And again if we're moving
forward on our price,

01:44:48.638 --> 01:44:53.424
economic scarcity versus
physical scarcity, that nuance

01:44:53.448 --> 01:44:58.214
it's gonna get real
complicated real fast. And

01:44:58.238 --> 01:45:02.285
so but I do think we
need to approach this from

01:45:02.309 --> 01:45:04.464
that Yuri view, it's like
look at the end of the day

01:45:04.488 --> 01:45:07.205
we need a way to build
around this in case you

01:45:07.229 --> 01:45:11.634
know the one and 200 year
event happens just in Texas

01:45:11.658 --> 01:45:14.495
to where we can draw other
resources in and work through

01:45:14.519 --> 01:45:17.705
a partnership agreement with
those ISOs, not necessarily

01:45:17.729 --> 01:45:20.625
for commercial
applications. Well I will note

01:45:20.649 --> 01:45:24.964
that even for like the
railroad tie for instance is

01:45:24.988 --> 01:45:28.975
a reliability tie. I believe
it was rate based as a

01:45:28.999 --> 01:45:33.924
reliability tie, when it's not
being used for reliability,

01:45:33.948 --> 01:45:37.665
there are commercial
transactions that are being taken

01:45:37.689 --> 01:45:40.805
on all the DC ties. So
I think that's just one

01:45:40.829 --> 01:45:43.855
component that that
is just part of the DC tie

01:45:43.879 --> 01:45:47.694
build out. But to your point
economic versus reliability,

01:45:47.718 --> 01:45:49.944
I think that just goes directly
to whether or not those

01:45:49.968 --> 01:45:53.198
costs are able to be
recovered by a utility.

01:45:53.988 --> 01:45:58.685
It's my experience, what
you know what happens

01:45:58.709 --> 01:46:01.814
when you build export
projects is folks internally

01:46:01.838 --> 01:46:05.075
are afraid that prices are
gonna go up. You move excess

01:46:05.099 --> 01:46:11.015
power out of the region
and prices respond. I think

01:46:11.039 --> 01:46:13.944
that's normal. That's
probably normal economics.

01:46:13.968 --> 01:46:17.705
If again I use the word
static, if the power system

01:46:17.729 --> 01:46:21.915
is static but in our queue, in
the interconnection queue, we

01:46:21.939 --> 01:46:25.984
have almost 100,000
megawatts of resources. Hopefully

01:46:26.008 --> 01:46:31.415
we get more dispatchable
resources in there that are

01:46:31.439 --> 01:46:35.504
adding more. Then what's,
I mean our DC ties across

01:46:35.528 --> 01:46:41.685
the system are you know, not
that many megawatts, anyway.

01:46:41.709 --> 01:46:43.975
I want to just give the
recognition that there's a

01:46:43.999 --> 01:46:46.765
price sensitivity component
here that I hope we don't

01:46:46.789 --> 01:46:52.515
upset too much. But you know that is

01:46:52.539 --> 01:46:57.495
I think solved with more resources.
Sure it's a

01:46:57.519 --> 01:46:59.805
very fair point and I
think it's worth noting that

01:46:59.829 --> 01:47:02.809
while we are clearly
demonstrating a bias towards action

01:47:03.278 --> 01:47:07.455
and enhancing reliability as
soon as we can in as many

01:47:07.479 --> 01:47:12.194
ways as we can, we're not
gonna do it in a foolhardy

01:47:12.218 --> 01:47:16.178
manner with a blank check
that burdens consumers with

01:47:16.579 --> 01:47:18.899
undue costs. We will pay
a little more for reliability

01:47:19.289 --> 01:47:23.185
and to your point about
the concern of letting energy

01:47:23.209 --> 01:47:27.218
leave Texas and therefore
bringing prices up for Texans.

01:47:28.579 --> 01:47:32.335
That's what markets
do in a well functioning

01:47:32.359 --> 01:47:35.064
market, the cure for high
prices is high prices. That

01:47:35.088 --> 01:47:37.665
will drive more development
which is, which is what

01:47:37.689 --> 01:47:42.355
we want driven in a
competitive framework that

01:47:42.379 --> 01:47:47.915
delivers over the long
term, lower prices in the most

01:47:47.939 --> 01:47:50.535
efficient manner, most
efficient manner possible

01:47:50.559 --> 01:47:54.314
for Texans. While maintaining
Texas autonomy. The more

01:47:54.338 --> 01:47:57.805
commercial activity you
throw over those lines, it's

01:47:57.829 --> 01:48:02.189
become a nuanced view on
the part of FERC, so I would

01:48:02.669 --> 01:48:06.294
point that out.
Well thank you so

01:48:06.318 --> 01:48:08.544
much for your feedback,
I was responding back to

01:48:08.568 --> 01:48:10.844
your action items as
soon as possible and get

01:48:10.868 --> 01:48:13.444
that information from
ERCOT and I do want to

01:48:13.468 --> 01:48:17.105
echo your statements
Chairman Lake, my memo

01:48:17.129 --> 01:48:21.754
was purely geared at addressing
your directive to accelerate

01:48:21.778 --> 01:48:24.605
the transmission development
in the state for reliability

01:48:24.629 --> 01:48:27.174
and address congestion
issues and it's a comprehensive

01:48:27.198 --> 01:48:30.825
task, and my goal was
to bring back discussion

01:48:30.849 --> 01:48:35.415
points that we can discuss
and maybe take action on

01:48:35.439 --> 01:48:39.745
today or in the near
future and, all that, all that

01:48:39.769 --> 01:48:43.015
being said, as you
said, it is truly a balance

01:48:43.039 --> 01:48:46.035
between maintaining
reliability and cost for consumers

01:48:46.059 --> 01:48:51.344
because if the goal is
reliability and also costs

01:48:51.368 --> 01:48:53.614
may have to go up, but
we also have to take into

01:48:53.638 --> 01:48:57.344
consideration the consumers
in the state and the fact

01:48:57.368 --> 01:49:00.888
that that also impacts
economic development. So,

01:49:01.468 --> 01:49:04.904
that being said, thank
you for your time today.

01:49:04.928 --> 01:49:08.364
Thank you for the tremendous
amount of work. Very, very well

01:49:08.388 --> 01:49:12.995
done.
Thank you.
And you've put us at a spot where

01:49:13.019 --> 01:49:17.294
we're well positioned to
move forward quickly. I think

01:49:17.318 --> 01:49:20.915
with line of sight on some
pretty decisive action very

01:49:20.939 --> 01:49:24.654
soon.
Thank you Commissioners.
Before we move on, just

01:49:24.678 --> 01:49:27.935
real quick as as a reminder,
the legislature actually

01:49:27.959 --> 01:49:30.694
put a rider in our budget
that requires us to look

01:49:30.718 --> 01:49:32.884
at the interconnections
with the East West in Mexico.

01:49:32.908 --> 01:49:34.935
So that's something staff
will be doing with ERCOT

01:49:34.959 --> 01:49:39.999
over the next two years.
Good point. Thank you.

01:49:40.669 --> 01:49:45.314
You've got a pretty full dance card from

01:49:45.338 --> 01:49:48.544
my action item list, so I'll
switch to this side of the

01:49:48.568 --> 01:49:54.875
dais.
Please do.
jimmy, you had a number of goodJ

01:49:54.899 --> 01:49:58.915
points. Appreciate. And to
the extent you have, I know

01:49:58.939 --> 01:50:01.225
you've got a full plate
as well to the extent you

01:50:01.249 --> 01:50:04.335
have bandwidth, you
mentioned the new technologies

01:50:04.359 --> 01:50:07.625
that can be more dynamic
and less, I guess more digital

01:50:07.649 --> 01:50:14.448
and less analog in voltage in
utilization of existing transmission.

01:50:15.258 --> 01:50:19.075
I would love to see some
concrete examples of what

01:50:19.099 --> 01:50:21.749
those technologies are, how
they could be implemented

01:50:21.859 --> 01:50:27.864
within ERCOT and as
much information as you can

01:50:27.888 --> 01:50:32.484
get in terms of timeline
cost, road map on how to

01:50:32.508 --> 01:50:40.508
do that. That would be
tremendous. And to your

01:50:40.579 --> 01:50:43.194
a very good point about
Southern Cross and the fact

01:50:43.218 --> 01:50:49.194
that it's in process but
that process is multiple

01:50:49.218 --> 01:50:51.734
years

01:50:51.758 --> 01:50:54.265
and especially given your
federal experience, would

01:50:54.289 --> 01:50:58.379
you take a hard look at
that and see how we can

01:50:59.229 --> 01:51:02.705
expedite that project?
What barriers or obstacles or

01:51:02.729 --> 01:51:06.935
red tape is in the way
that we can we can get

01:51:06.959 --> 01:51:12.835
out of the way fully and
feel free to offer slash and

01:51:12.859 --> 01:51:16.165
burn proposals on how to
move that forward. Absolutely.

01:51:16.189 --> 01:51:21.484
With the assurance to
Commissioner McAdams that you

01:51:21.508 --> 01:51:24.064
know, I know they have
a disclaimer for jurisdiction

01:51:24.088 --> 01:51:27.384
but we will make sure
that that is loud, clear, real

01:51:27.408 --> 01:51:30.995
and fast and hard.
Belt and suspender that part.

01:51:31.019 --> 01:51:33.419
All of our benefit.
Yes, that's right.
Not just Commissioner McAdams

01:51:33.479 --> 01:51:37.884
we all got to make sure of that.
And wrapping

01:51:37.908 --> 01:51:39.825
up our action item list,
Commission Mcadams, I know

01:51:39.849 --> 01:51:42.044
you've got a thank you
for this presentation. I know

01:51:42.068 --> 01:51:45.544
you will be playing a key
role in our September work

01:51:45.568 --> 01:51:48.178
session, obviously overlaps
with your presentation today.

01:51:48.559 --> 01:51:51.805
We have just issued or will
issue guidance, Commission

01:51:51.829 --> 01:51:56.864
guidance on that. Will
you take a, I mean, a lot of

01:51:56.888 --> 01:51:59.625
this is going to be,
it's gonna materialize

01:51:59.649 --> 01:52:02.094
in that work session. Will you
take a lead on the comments

01:52:02.118 --> 01:52:06.004
and feedback we get,
we'll all be reviewing it.

01:52:06.028 --> 01:52:10.468
But given the amount of
time you put into this expertise,

01:52:11.149 --> 01:52:16.855
take a lead on looking at
those comments and at some

01:52:16.879 --> 01:52:21.004
point that in work session
offering your thoughts

01:52:21.028 --> 01:52:25.575
on highlights, good ideas,
how that bad ideas and

01:52:25.599 --> 01:52:30.984
what that syncs up with,
biased towards action.

01:52:31.008 --> 01:52:36.464
And how that syncs
up with key issues you

01:52:36.488 --> 01:52:38.884
highlighted today and the
opportunities we have ahead

01:52:38.908 --> 01:52:42.924
of us. Appreciate it.

01:52:42.948 --> 01:52:47.225
Right.

01:52:47.249 --> 01:52:50.335
That concludes the business
for item 21. I don't have

01:52:50.359 --> 01:52:56.674
anything on item 20
to 24. 25 is not being

01:52:56.698 --> 01:53:01.154
taken up today, that brings
us to item 26. We'll get an

01:53:01.178 --> 01:53:05.825
update from our Executive
Director Mr Gleason.

01:53:05.849 --> 01:53:09.674
Thank you, Mr Chairman,
Commissioners. Just two items

01:53:09.698 --> 01:53:12.395
to discuss this morning.
First to kind of close the

01:53:12.419 --> 01:53:15.424
loop on something from the
last open meeting. So ERCOT

01:53:15.448 --> 01:53:18.464
and the PUC both submitted
their self evaluation reports

01:53:18.488 --> 01:53:22.174
to the Sunset Commission
yesterday. So that's definitely

01:53:22.198 --> 01:53:25.714
a good thing, kicking off
our review and I'll continue

01:53:25.738 --> 01:53:28.154
to provide you updates
as that review really kicks

01:53:28.178 --> 01:53:31.944
off and we start making
progress throughout

01:53:31.968 --> 01:53:36.915
the interim over the
next year and a half. So

01:53:36.939 --> 01:53:40.205
I want to, you know, once again,
acknowledge the abundance

01:53:40.229 --> 01:53:42.605
of work that was done by
our staff and by ERCOT staff.

01:53:42.629 --> 01:53:45.145
These are large reports
and were done in a really

01:53:45.169 --> 01:53:47.455
short timeline. So just
acknowledge that work that

01:53:47.479 --> 01:53:51.274
was done. And then secondly
you all reference TERC

01:53:51.298 --> 01:53:56.075
the Texas Energy
Reliability Council. So staff

01:53:56.099 --> 01:54:00.444
is working to finalize the
process to solicit receive

01:54:00.468 --> 01:54:04.145
and ultimately approve
applicants for TERC. Hope to

01:54:04.169 --> 01:54:06.395
have that done within the
next two weeks and have

01:54:06.419 --> 01:54:09.114
you all approved that and
get that going. So we're

01:54:09.138 --> 01:54:12.325
required to appoint eight
members. So quite a large

01:54:12.349 --> 01:54:16.015
task as well. So we
want to get that going.

01:54:16.039 --> 01:54:19.928
Good point. And as Commission
Mcadams added, there's

01:54:21.039 --> 01:54:24.205
already working on some
items for them to consider

01:54:24.229 --> 01:54:30.444
and there will be a clear
area of value for them or

01:54:30.468 --> 01:54:35.895
scope of value for them
to address. And to your first

01:54:35.919 --> 01:54:38.515
point about the Sunset
self evaluation. That is both

01:54:38.539 --> 01:54:42.745
to PUC staff and ERCOT
staff. That is a tremendous

01:54:42.769 --> 01:54:45.404
amount of work. I know
people hear about the Sunset

01:54:45.428 --> 01:54:47.984
Commission and hear
about the Sunset process but I

01:54:48.008 --> 01:54:51.765
know we've all gone through
that report. So a big thank

01:54:51.789 --> 01:54:55.935
you to both ERCOT and
PUC staff for what a big

01:54:55.959 --> 01:55:01.165
effort it is too. Put that
together and do it in

01:55:01.189 --> 01:55:05.459
such a short amount of time
when everybody's already

01:55:06.338 --> 01:55:13.214
running at 110%. So thank you.

01:55:13.238 --> 01:55:16.785
I don't have anything
for items 27 or 28.

01:55:16.809 --> 01:55:22.145
That will bring us to close
session. Having convened

01:55:22.169 --> 01:55:24.935
a duly noticed open meeting
Commission will now at

01:55:24.959 --> 01:55:29.044
11:26 a.m. on September 2,
2021, hold a closed session

01:55:29.068 --> 01:55:31.769
pursuant to Chapter 551 of
the Texas Government Code

01:55:32.539 --> 01:55:40.539
Sections 551.071, 551.074 and 551.076.

01:55:41.238 --> 01:55:48.015
We'll be back.

01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:51.794
Alright closed session
is hereby concluded at

01:55:51.818 --> 01:55:55.694
1157 am on September 2,
2021. The Commission will resume

01:55:55.718 --> 01:55:59.825
its public meeting. No
action was taken will be

01:55:59.849 --> 01:56:02.568
taken related to matters
discussed in closed session

01:56:02.939 --> 01:56:04.844
and having no further
business before the Commission.

01:56:04.868 --> 01:56:07.028
This meeting of the Public
utility Commission of Texas

01:56:07.169 --> 01:56:09.059
is hereby adjourned