WEBVTT

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<v ->Railroad Commission of Texas will come to order</v>

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to consider matters which have been duly posted

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with the Secretary of State for May 22nd, 2018.

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The Commission will consider the items

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on the agenda as posted on the agenda

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and our public participation policy,

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anyone desiring to offer a public testimony

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on any items that are not noticed on today's agenda

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will need to fill out a testimony form

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found in the back of the room

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and submit it to Commission Secretary, Cathy Way,

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who is to my left over here,

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and remember to turn off your cell phones.

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item number one.

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Good morning.

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<v ->Can I just turn my ringer off?</v>

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<v ->Whatever, as long as it isn't buzzing.</v>

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(laughing)

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Good morning, Sarah.
<v ->Good morning,</v>

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Chairman and Commissioners.

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For the record, my name is Sara Montoya-Fogelsong,

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and I am representing the Market Oversight Section

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of the Oversight and Safety Division.

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Agenda item number one today is an order

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nunc pro tunc in Gas Utilities Docket Number 10647,

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Application of Comanche Trail Pipeline, LLC,

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pursuant to NGPA, Section 311, for review

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of reasonableness of a transportation rate.

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On April 24th, 2018, the Commission signed an order

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in GUD Number 10647, approving the reasonableness

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of rates for interruptible transportation service,

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firm transportation service, and park and loan service.

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Finding of Fact Number 8, Conclusion of Law Number 5,

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and Ordering Paragraph Number 2 all contained

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a daily demand charge of 20 cents per MMBtu

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for firm transportation service.

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The daily demand charge for firm transportation service

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should have been 15 cents per MMBtu.

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This order nunc pro tunc corrects the daily demand charge

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for firm transportation service,

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and staff recommends that the Commission adopt this order.

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May I answer any questions?

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<v Christi>Thank you, Sarah,</v>

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are there any questions?

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<v Wayne>Nope.</v>

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<v Christi>I move we approve the examiner's recommendation.</v>

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Is there a second?

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<v Ryan>Second.</v>

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<v Christi>Second current by Commissioner Sitton.</v>

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All in favor say aye.

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<v All>Aye.</v>

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<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

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Thank you.

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item number two.

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Morning, Frank.

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<v ->Morning.</v>

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Madam Chairman, Commissioners, good morning.

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I'm Frank Tomicek with the Oversight and Safety Division.

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This morning's next agenda item is Gas Utilities Docket

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Number 10693, application made by Atmos Pipeline Texas,

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for a Test Year 2017 Annual Interim Adjustment.

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This is the second interim rate adjustment

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since the company's last rate case in

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GUD Number 10580,

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which set the interim rate adjustment factors,

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and, in this filing, Atmos Pipiline

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has also made a voluntary adjustment

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to its IRA request to reflect tax rate of 21%

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in accordance with the Tax Cuts

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and Jobs Act of 2017

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and the resulting proposed IRA rates in this docket,

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additionally incorporate a rate reduction

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approved administratively in GUD 10704,

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which reduced the previous IRA rates

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for changes in the tax rates

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as per the Commissions accounting order

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in GUD 10695 from this past February.

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Using those factors

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and adjustments the companies identified,

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a test year incremental revenue requirement

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of approximately $42,173,277,

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which will be recovered from

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their tariff rate CGS and PT customers

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under the proposed rate adjustment.

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Staff's review of the filing

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has found it to be compliant with

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the provisions of GRIP statutes,

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and staff is recommending approval

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and I can address any questions at this time.

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<v ->Thank you, Frank.</v>

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Are there any questions?

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I move we approve the examiner's recommendation,

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is there a second?

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<v ->Second.</v>

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<v ->Second by Commissioner Christian.</v>

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All in favor say aye.

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<v All>Aye.</v>

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<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

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<v Frank>Thank you.</v>

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<v ->Thank you.</v>

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Good morning John.

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<v John>Morning.</v>

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Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners.

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I'm Admnistrative Law Judge, John Dawson, Hearings Division.

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Agenda item three, GUD 10669 consolidated,

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is a Gas Utility rate case filed by CenterPoint

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to increase rates in its South Texas division.

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Three parties intervened,

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Commission staff and two separate coalitions of cities.

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Ultimately the parties reached a settlement

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resolving all issues.

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In the settlement, the parties agreed to a decrease

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of three million dollars from current revenues

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in the South Texas division.

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Prior to settling, CenterPoint requested

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a revenue increase of approximately $500,000.

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A reduction of a corporate income tax rate

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from 35% to 21% due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017

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and cost of equity set at 9.8%.

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We recommend approval of the settlement,

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and no parties filed PFT exemptions.

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In addition to the environs,

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the Commission has original jurisdiction

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over the rates in 18 cities

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that ceded jurisdiction to the Commission

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and appellate jurisdiction over rates

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in four cities that took up action

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at the municipal level.

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The deadline for Commission action is June 19th,

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so we're a bit early.

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We're available for questions.

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<v ->Thank you.</v>

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Are there any questions?

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<v ->Nope.</v>

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<v ->I move we approve the examiner's recommendation.</v>

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Is there a second?

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<v ->Second.</v>

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<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

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All in favor say aye.

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<v All>Aye.</v>

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<v ->Motion passed with items approved.</v>

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Thank you, John.

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<v ->Number four. Morning, Kyle.</v>

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<v ->Good morning, Commissioners.</v>

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Kyle Lebby,

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Administrative Law Judge with the Hearings Division.

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Item four is an application by ALCOA USA Corp.

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requesting Phase One, Two, and Three release

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of reclamation obligations for 130 acres

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at the Sandow Mine, Permit Number 1G,

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located in Milam and Lee Counties.

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Acreage requested for release,

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comprised entirely of 130-acre facility,

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referred to as the AX Landfill.

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The facility is authorized by the Texas Commission

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on Environmental Quality for disposal

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of Non-Hazardous Class Two and Three Waste.

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The postmining land use for the subject's acreage

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is industrial/commercial.

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Evidence in the record indicates

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reclamation has been accomplished

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in accordance with the approved permit

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and the regulations.

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After notice, no comments or requests

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for hearings were received.

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Our coaling staff were the only parties to the proceeding,

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and no exceptions were filed.

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No changes to the current bond instruments is requested

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in this docket.

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Full release of the acreage is recommended,

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along with an eligible bond reduction amount

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of $737,022.

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I'm available for questions.

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<v Christi>Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

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<v Wayne>Nope.</v>

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<v ->I move we approve the examiner's recommendation.</v>

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Is there a second?

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<v Wayne>Second.</v>

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<v ->Second, Commissioner Christian.</v>

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All in favor, say, "Aye."

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<v All>Aye.</v>

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<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

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Number five.

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<v ->Good morning, Commissioners.</v>

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My name is Steven Leary, Administrative Law Judge

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of the Hearings Division.

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Item five is an application by San Miguel

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Electric Cooperative and incorporated for release

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of phase one reclamation obligations for 484.6 acres

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within the San Miguel sea-area mine, permit 52A,

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located in Atascosa County.

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The approved postmining land use for the subject acreage

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is pasture land.

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There are no permanent structures

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within the proposed released area.

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The evidence shows that the acreage has been back-filled

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and re-graded to the approximate original contour

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and that drainage control has been established

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as required for phase one release.

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Public notice and other required notices were provided.

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No request for a hearing or public comment were filed.

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San Miguel does not request a reduction in the bond amount

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at this time

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and that the approved reclamation cost estimate

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was calculated using the worst-case pit method,

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which assumes that mining and reclamation operations

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are contemporaneous with the reclamation plan.

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San Miguel and staff are the only parties

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to the proceeding.

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No exceptions were filed in response to the proposed order.

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I recommend approval of the proposed order,

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and I'm available to answer questions.

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<v Christi>Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

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I move we approve the examiner's recommendation.

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Is there a second?

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<v Ryan>Second.</v>

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<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

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All in favor, say "Aye."

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<v All>Aye.</v>

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<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

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Morning, Jennifer.

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<v Jennifer>Good morning.</v>

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Items six through nine are MIPA applications,

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heard at the same time and presented together in one PFD

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because they have common facts,

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parties and legal issues.

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I am presenting them together today

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and will provide one order.

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Ammonite Oil and Gas Corporation filed four applications

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under the Mineral Interest Pooling Act, or MIPA,

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three requesting the pool at its least acreage

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into a unit for an already-drilled horizontal well

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on Apache Corporation's Apache Pelican Unit.

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Ammonite's fourth application is for a proposed well

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on the Apache Unit.

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Apache requests the applications be denied.

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Ammonite asserts the proposed pooling will prevent waste

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and protect correlative rights.

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Ammonite claims its leased riverbed tract

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should be pooled such that the Apache unit

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will be divided into five approximately equal portions,

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four to be MIPA units,

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each pooled with the corresponding segment

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of Ammonite's riverbed tract.

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The riverbed tract at issue traces the boundary

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of the Apache unit facing the river.

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It meanders and, consequently, is non-linear.

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Ammonite argues, due to the shape of the tract,

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it is not technically ergonomically feasible

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to drill a well to produce the underlying minerals,

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and the tract must be pooled for its tract,

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its mineral interest owners to obtain their fair share

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of minerals and prevent waste.

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Apache asserts there should be no forced pooling

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in this case.

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Apache claims the drilled wells do not produce minerals

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from Ammonite's riverbed tract.

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There is no drainage, and Ammonite's acreage provides

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no contribution to production.

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Apache claims Ammonite's voluntary pooling offer

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is not fair and reasonable.

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It provided no benefit to Apache.

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It would cause Apache to incur additional costs

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for additional equipment,

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would cause lease line spacing problems,

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and unfairly dilute

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the Apache unit mineral interest owner's portion.

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Apache further asserts pooling will not prevent waste

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or protect correlative rights.

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Pooling will not impact the amount of hydrocarbons produced

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or lost, so waste is not an issue.

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Apache asserts pooling will not protect correlative rights

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because the Ammonite tract minerals are still in place

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beneath the Ammonite tract.

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In fact, Apache asserts pooling will negatively impact

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the Apache unit mineral interest owner's correlative rights

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by taking minerals produced solely

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from under the Apache unit and giving a portion to Ammonite.

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Apache further asserts that the offer

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concerning proposed well is not fair and reasonable

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because it is vague and indefinite,

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and there was no expert testimony

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or substantive information established

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that pooling will prevent waste,

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protect correlative rights,

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or prevent the drilling of unnecessary wells.

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The examiners recommend that the Commission

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find as follows:

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there is insufficient evidence

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a fair and reasonable offer was made.

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Ammonite has failed to demonstrate

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the proposed pooled units will prevent waste,

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protect correlative rights, or prevent the drilling

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of unnecessary wells,

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and there is no sufficient description

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of the proposed units in the record.

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The examiners recommend the Commission

00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:39.963
dismiss and deny the applications.

00:10:42.290 --> 00:10:44.030
<v Christi>Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

00:10:44.030 --> 00:10:45.837
<v Ryan>I do have a question.</v>

00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:52.000
Jennifer, in the PFD, you go through a lot of analysis

00:10:52.470 --> 00:10:56.070
on what makes an offer reasonable, fair and reasonable,

00:10:56.070 --> 00:10:58.920
and then also about drilling unnecessary wells.

00:10:58.920 --> 00:11:02.380
One of the issues that I'm afraid we've gotten into

00:11:02.380 --> 00:11:04.020
is this issue of drainage,

00:11:04.020 --> 00:11:05.230
and I wanna talk about that for a second

00:11:05.230 --> 00:11:06.063
and ask you a question.

00:11:06.063 --> 00:11:08.440
So, on page five of the PFD, you list out

00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:11.340
the nine criteria for an applicant to prevail

00:11:11.340 --> 00:11:12.343
on a MIPA case.

00:11:13.950 --> 00:11:15.700
I won't go through them all,

00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:19.490
but none of them specifically mention drainage,

00:11:19.490 --> 00:11:21.020
and as we've talked about in the past,

00:11:21.020 --> 00:11:25.140
one of the considerations in the MIPA statute is that

00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:31.090
it is intended to prompt large tract owners

00:11:31.090 --> 00:11:33.190
to negotiate in good faith with small tract owners

00:11:33.190 --> 00:11:35.510
so we don't leave those stranded.

00:11:35.510 --> 00:11:38.730
So, long story short, I agree with the assessment

00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:39.757
that when we talked about breaking these up

00:11:39.757 --> 00:11:41.390
and the amount of additional equipment

00:11:41.390 --> 00:11:42.603
that Apache would have had to put in place.

00:11:42.603 --> 00:11:44.477
I don't think these make sense to pool,

00:11:44.477 --> 00:11:46.683
but what I have a concern with is that,

00:11:48.110 --> 00:11:51.853
page 17 of the PFD, I think it is.

00:11:53.662 --> 00:11:56.620
17 and 18, you spent quite a bit of time talking about

00:11:57.630 --> 00:11:59.600
lack of drainage?

00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:01.200
Which, if a well has already been drilled,

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.680
then you're not gonna drain those units,

00:12:02.680 --> 00:12:03.740
and I don't think,

00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:07.220
I don't believe that that's required by the MIPA statute,

00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:10.570
so, my question is, why did we discuss drainage so much

00:12:10.570 --> 00:12:14.650
if it's not actually required in one of the nine points

00:12:14.650 --> 00:12:17.000
required for a MIPA applicant to be successful?

00:12:18.804 --> 00:12:20.350
<v ->A couple things come to mind.</v>

00:12:20.350 --> 00:12:23.710
One is that it's a factor to consider because it goes

00:12:23.710 --> 00:12:26.640
to whether the tract to be pooled will

00:12:27.680 --> 00:12:31.010
benefit, or bring some benefit,

00:12:31.010 --> 00:12:35.530
and the Broussard case, which is a case that is

00:12:35.530 --> 00:12:37.040
an appellate case.

00:12:37.040 --> 00:12:39.590
They found, my understanding,

00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:42.020
is that they thought the lack of drainage

00:12:42.020 --> 00:12:45.650
and the lack of contributing production

00:12:45.650 --> 00:12:48.930
was an important factor in their mind

00:12:48.930 --> 00:12:51.640
in determining that the offer was fair and reasonable,

00:12:51.640 --> 00:12:56.640
so I did consider it as a factor

00:12:56.830 --> 00:13:00.730
when looking at the MIPA applications in this case,

00:13:00.730 --> 00:13:01.940
and I agree with you,

00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:04.020
the word "drainage" is not in the statute.

00:13:04.020 --> 00:13:07.020
<v ->Well, being more specific, if</v>

00:13:07.020 --> 00:13:08.490
lack of drainage,

00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:10.060
in other words, if I go out and drill a well

00:13:10.060 --> 00:13:11.810
and it's not draining anybody else's minerals,

00:13:11.810 --> 00:13:15.020
then I'm not incentivized to negotiate with them

00:13:15.020 --> 00:13:15.853
in good faith,

00:13:15.853 --> 00:13:16.720
because as long as I don't drill a well

00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.397
that touches their units,

00:13:18.397 --> 00:13:22.270
they can't force me later to pool with them,

00:13:22.270 --> 00:13:25.760
and I think, in the past, as we looked at prior cases

00:13:25.760 --> 00:13:26.930
that have come before the Railroad Commission

00:13:26.930 --> 00:13:28.130
that hasn't been a requirement,

00:13:28.130 --> 00:13:30.320
so that if someone didn't negotiate in good faith

00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:31.810
went ahead and drilled a well,

00:13:31.810 --> 00:13:33.430
we would force them to pool

00:13:33.430 --> 00:13:35.840
because they didn't negotiate in good faith.

00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.270
Now, in this case, as I said, I think that the offer,

00:13:38.270 --> 00:13:40.510
I'm not arguing against the findings in this case,

00:13:40.510 --> 00:13:43.690
I support the fact that these shouldn't be granted because

00:13:43.690 --> 00:13:45.800
there's a separate issue here,

00:13:45.800 --> 00:13:48.180
which is, even during the,

00:13:48.180 --> 00:13:51.740
they talked about the positioning of the tracts

00:13:51.740 --> 00:13:53.730
and that even if they had drilled those wells,

00:13:53.730 --> 00:13:55.380
because they weren't perpendicular

00:13:55.380 --> 00:13:57.300
to the Apache tracts,

00:13:57.300 --> 00:14:00.000
their fractures couldn't have penetrated the Ammonite,

00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.840
Ammonite leases,

00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:03.700
so I think, in that case,

00:14:03.700 --> 00:14:05.980
the fact that there was no possible way to get the minerals,

00:14:05.980 --> 00:14:07.050
that's a different thing,

00:14:07.050 --> 00:14:09.180
but if they already drilled the wells,

00:14:09.180 --> 00:14:11.930
and now they're not getting any drainage,

00:14:11.930 --> 00:14:13.800
I don't think that's part of the MIPA statute,

00:14:13.800 --> 00:14:15.180
and I think we have to preserve that.

00:14:15.180 --> 00:14:17.470
Otherwise, we're not incentivizing

00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:19.460
large mineral, large tract owners

00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:20.780
to negotiate with small tract owners.

00:14:20.780 --> 00:14:23.430
That's a pretty important factor

00:14:23.430 --> 00:14:25.290
in how we consider these cases.

00:14:25.290 --> 00:14:28.940
So, long story short, I agree with the findings.

00:14:28.940 --> 00:14:30.740
What I don't agree with is that drainage is part

00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:32.238
of the consideration because I don't think

00:14:32.238 --> 00:14:34.120
that that was considered in the statute,

00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:35.630
and it was specifically left out.

00:14:35.630 --> 00:14:38.160
Once again, if I don't negotiate in good faith,

00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:39.030
I go drill the well,

00:14:39.030 --> 00:14:41.590
yeah, I may not be draining these guys' minerals,

00:14:41.590 --> 00:14:42.710
if there's no penalty,

00:14:42.710 --> 00:14:45.030
there's no ability to come back later and still pool them,

00:14:45.030 --> 00:14:46.717
then I've got no incentive to negotiate in good faith,

00:14:46.717 --> 00:14:48.280
and I think that's a really important part

00:14:48.280 --> 00:14:49.280
of the MIPA statute.

00:14:50.580 --> 00:14:52.330
So, I'll vote for this,

00:14:52.330 --> 00:14:53.460
but I'm thinking that,

00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:57.780
I wanna make sure that we're not raising the bar

00:14:57.780 --> 00:14:59.890
artificially outside of what's in the statute here

00:14:59.890 --> 00:15:01.630
that, no, drainage of actual minerals

00:15:01.630 --> 00:15:02.857
is not required here,

00:15:02.857 --> 00:15:04.550
and if we start to raise that bar,

00:15:04.550 --> 00:15:07.400
then we're going to dis-incentivize good faith negotiations,

00:15:07.400 --> 00:15:08.233
which we don't wanna do.

00:15:08.233 --> 00:15:09.840
That will cause waste in the future.

00:15:13.076 --> 00:15:14.613
<v ->Are there any other questions?</v>

00:15:14.613 --> 00:15:15.730
We have a party,

00:15:15.730 --> 00:15:17.347
one of the parties is here if you've got any questions

00:15:17.347 --> 00:15:18.849
for parties.

00:15:18.849 --> 00:15:19.682
<v ->I don't.</v>

00:15:19.682 --> 00:15:20.515
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:15:20.515 --> 00:15:22.620
Alright, I move we approve the examiner's recommendation

00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:24.200
for six, seven, eight, and nine.

00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:25.033
Is there a second?

00:15:25.033 --> 00:15:25.866
<v ->Second.</v>

00:15:25.866 --> 00:15:26.910
<v ->Second, Commissioner Christian.</v>

00:15:26.910 --> 00:15:28.153
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:15:28.153 --> 00:15:29.000
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:29.870
<v ->Motion passes.</v>

00:15:29.870 --> 00:15:31.401
Those items are approved.

00:15:31.401 --> 00:15:33.240
Thank you, and you had just one order, correct, Jennifer?

00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:34.073
<v ->Yes.</v>

00:15:34.073 --> 00:15:35.267
<v ->Okay, great. Thanks, Jennifer.</v>

00:15:37.010 --> 00:15:39.350
In item 10, Mike Smith filed a complaint

00:15:39.350 --> 00:15:40.350
requesting the Commission

00:15:40.350 --> 00:15:42.889
order Targa Midstreams Services, LLC,

00:15:42.889 --> 00:15:46.502
and/or ConocoPhillips Company to remediate hydrocarbon

00:15:46.502 --> 00:15:51.470
contamination complainant found on his land near a pond.

00:15:51.470 --> 00:15:53.790
Burlington Resources Oil & Gas Company, LP,

00:15:53.790 --> 00:15:56.450
sought to intervene as the true party in interest

00:15:56.450 --> 00:15:58.010
instead of Conoco.

00:15:58.010 --> 00:16:01.290
Without objection, Burlington was admitted as a party.

00:16:01.290 --> 00:16:03.340
Commission staff participated and requests

00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:05.223
that responsible persons be required to do

00:16:05.223 --> 00:16:07.710
further assessment of the contamination

00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:10.743
and remediate to regulatory standards as necessary.

00:16:11.610 --> 00:16:13.270
Issues in this case include, one,

00:16:13.270 --> 00:16:16.240
which, if any, parties have regulatory responsibility

00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.520
to remediate the pond contamination and compliance

00:16:18.520 --> 00:16:20.240
with Commission rules and statutes?

00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.210
And two, what, if any, actions such as delineation

00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:26.603
assessment or remediation is required to be performed?

00:16:27.910 --> 00:16:29.550
Burlington has released the mineral rights

00:16:29.550 --> 00:16:31.080
known as the Fox Lease

00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.550
and is the operator of several of Fox leased wells

00:16:34.550 --> 00:16:36.140
near the pond site.

00:16:36.140 --> 00:16:38.370
Targa operates the gas gathering lines

00:16:38.370 --> 00:16:40.400
from wells on complainant's property,

00:16:40.400 --> 00:16:42.410
one of which is approximately 100 feet

00:16:42.410 --> 00:16:45.860
from where the hydrocarbons were originally discovered.

00:16:45.860 --> 00:16:48.120
Complainant asserts neither Targa nor Burlington

00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.160
has delineated the contamination discovered

00:16:50.160 --> 00:16:52.640
in complainant's bond as required.

00:16:52.640 --> 00:16:54.650
There was and remains an environmental condition

00:16:54.650 --> 00:16:56.370
requiring response action,

00:16:56.370 --> 00:16:58.920
such as further assessment and remediation.

00:16:58.920 --> 00:17:01.030
Complainant argues Targa and/or Burlington

00:17:01.030 --> 00:17:04.080
should have to fund the necessary response actions.

00:17:04.080 --> 00:17:06.130
Staff asserts Targa should be responsible

00:17:06.130 --> 00:17:08.090
for further delineation of the contamination

00:17:08.090 --> 00:17:10.075
and remediation if necessary.

00:17:10.075 --> 00:17:13.140
Targa maintains further remediation is not necessary,

00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.780
and if any additional delineation or remediation

00:17:15.780 --> 00:17:18.780
is necessary, then Targa believes it should be performed

00:17:18.780 --> 00:17:21.880
by either Burlington or by the state using state funds.

00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:23.900
Targa asserts there is insufficient evidence

00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:26.690
that Targa caused the contamination.

00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:28.760
Burlington asserts there is no evidence Burlington

00:17:28.760 --> 00:17:30.490
caused the pond contamination,

00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:32.700
and it is not responsible to investigate or remediate

00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:34.333
contamination it did not cause.

00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:37.710
The examiners recommend the Commission conclude

00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:40.270
that it does have discretion to hold Targa and/or Burlington

00:17:40.270 --> 00:17:41.450
responsible for compliance

00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:43.563
with regulatory remediation standards.

00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.660
The examiners recommend, based on the evidence in this case,

00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:51.008
that Targa be ordered to assess, and, if necessary,

00:17:51.008 --> 00:17:53.290
remediate contamination in accordance

00:17:53.290 --> 00:17:55.050
with regulatory standards

00:17:55.050 --> 00:17:57.390
under the direction of the Commission staff.

00:17:57.390 --> 00:17:59.560
Exceptions and replies were filed,

00:17:59.560 --> 00:18:01.273
and I am available for questions.

00:18:02.360 --> 00:18:04.970
<v Christi>Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

00:18:04.970 --> 00:18:07.380
We've got all three parties are here

00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:09.500
if you've got any questions for parties.

00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:12.545
Okay, I've got one question and a comment.

00:18:12.545 --> 00:18:16.580
I am concerned that this is pretty open-ended,

00:18:16.580 --> 00:18:18.770
and so while you've put 180 days,

00:18:18.770 --> 00:18:20.340
I'm concerned we don't have a plan,

00:18:20.340 --> 00:18:23.291
and I'd like to remand it back just to let all parties

00:18:23.291 --> 00:18:24.740
comment on the plans

00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:27.013
about how we're gonna clean this up,

00:18:27.013 --> 00:18:29.750
because I think this has sat for long enough,

00:18:29.750 --> 00:18:31.670
and we need to get this cleaned up.

00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:34.940
So, I've got a remand,

00:18:34.940 --> 00:18:36.450
but I've got a time limit,

00:18:36.450 --> 00:18:38.114
and it's for a specific,

00:18:38.114 --> 00:18:38.947
if I can read it
<v Wayne>Yeah.</v>

00:18:38.947 --> 00:18:40.543
<v ->and let y'all comment.</v>

00:18:41.820 --> 00:18:45.120
I move that we remand this case for the limited purpose

00:18:45.120 --> 00:18:47.650
of reopening the hearing to allow the parties,

00:18:47.650 --> 00:18:49.210
including our staff,

00:18:49.210 --> 00:18:53.140
an opportunity to offer specific assessment delineation

00:18:53.140 --> 00:18:54.910
and remediation plans,

00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:57.700
and that any plans be submitted to the examiners

00:18:57.700 --> 00:19:00.310
within 60 days from today,

00:19:00.310 --> 00:19:01.760
and I'll be glad to give you a copy of that

00:19:01.760 --> 00:19:02.595
if you need it.

00:19:02.595 --> 00:19:03.428
<v Jennifer>Okay, thank you.</v>

00:19:03.428 --> 00:19:05.550
<v ->And mainly because I think it's just too open-ended.</v>

00:19:05.550 --> 00:19:07.010
I think you're going the right direction,

00:19:07.010 --> 00:19:08.800
but I think this looks real broad to me,

00:19:08.800 --> 00:19:10.993
and I'd like an end game for this,

00:19:10.993 --> 00:19:13.100
because I've seen problems where we just

00:19:13.100 --> 00:19:14.550
never seem to get things finished,

00:19:14.550 --> 00:19:15.383
and so,

00:19:15.383 --> 00:19:19.843
that's my motion if there's any discussion.

00:19:21.870 --> 00:19:23.120
<v Ryan>Just a question.</v>

00:19:25.430 --> 00:19:30.430
So the idea is have staff put together a more specific,

00:19:30.710 --> 00:19:33.530
because in their order it's not do any necessarily

00:19:33.530 --> 00:19:34.363
remediation rights.

00:19:34.363 --> 00:19:36.700
It's just a test right now, assess right now.

00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:39.390
<v ->What I'm asking for in my remand is staff and/or</v>

00:19:39.390 --> 00:19:41.280
the parties, all three parties,

00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:43.150
can come in and say, "This is how we think

00:19:43.150 --> 00:19:44.020
it oughta be cleaned up,"

00:19:44.020 --> 00:19:46.430
so we have a specific plan going forward.

00:19:46.430 --> 00:19:47.860
None of them have to come in.

00:19:47.860 --> 00:19:48.760
They don't have to,

00:19:48.760 --> 00:19:52.100
but I'd like to see what we're gonna do.

00:19:52.100 --> 00:19:53.350
I'd like some specifics,

00:19:53.350 --> 00:19:56.720
because what you've ordered in your final order,

00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.520
it's ordered within 180 days of this order becoming final

00:20:00.520 --> 00:20:03.100
for Targa to assess, delineate, and, if necessary,

00:20:03.100 --> 00:20:05.270
remediate the contamination site.

00:20:05.270 --> 00:20:07.670
I appreciate that, but I think we need a real plan

00:20:07.670 --> 00:20:08.503
going forward.

00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.890
<v ->I guess my question is,</v>

00:20:11.890 --> 00:20:13.040
part of the assessment,

00:20:16.729 --> 00:20:19.380
I'm thinking about how do we,

00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:22.400
how do we expect them to put together a clean-up plan,

00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:23.260
as you're calling it,

00:20:23.260 --> 00:20:24.860
if they haven't assessed yet?

00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:26.620
<v ->Well I think that's part of what they're gonna do</v>

00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:31.360
is assess and give us some real facts and information.

00:20:31.360 --> 00:20:32.620
<v ->So how long, what's the timeline?</v>

00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:33.740
<v ->60 days.</v>

00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:34.573
<v ->So the question is,</v>

00:20:34.573 --> 00:20:36.363
is that long enough to go out and do,

00:20:37.260 --> 00:20:38.750
so I guess we need one order.

00:20:38.750 --> 00:20:41.290
<v ->With the understanding you might see other things</v>

00:20:41.290 --> 00:20:42.130
as you get into this,

00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:44.520
but I think part of what you said,

00:20:44.520 --> 00:20:45.700
and I think all parties agree,

00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:49.070
is that we need to delineate this site better,

00:20:49.070 --> 00:20:50.490
so I think that could be done,

00:20:50.490 --> 00:20:52.340
it needs to be done anyway,

00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:55.510
but you can delineate the site, and in delineation,

00:20:55.510 --> 00:20:57.060
you can figure out what the assessment needs to be

00:20:57.060 --> 00:20:59.070
and what the clean-up plan is.

00:20:59.070 --> 00:21:00.130
Targa may have a plan,

00:21:00.130 --> 00:21:01.714
the complainant may have a plan,

00:21:01.714 --> 00:21:02.650
Burlington's staff,

00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:03.940
all of them may have a different plan.

00:21:03.940 --> 00:21:06.680
It'd be nice to have one plan so we're not arguing over this

00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:08.923
in 180 days and nothing's been done.

00:21:09.760 --> 00:21:11.270
<v ->I don't disagree with that.</v>

00:21:11.270 --> 00:21:15.120
What I'm mindful of, or what I don't,

00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:16.000
there's two stages here.

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.300
One is we have to go out and assess the situation,

00:21:18.300 --> 00:21:20.310
then based on that assessment have to delineate, okay,

00:21:20.310 --> 00:21:21.880
what is Targa's responsibility?

00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:23.190
What is out there that's not?

00:21:23.190 --> 00:21:26.080
And then form, after that, a remediation plan.

00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:27.700
<v ->So if you wanna adjust the timeframe,</v>

00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:29.582
I'm open to that.

00:21:29.582 --> 00:21:31.730
I just think we need some firm deadlines

00:21:31.730 --> 00:21:32.750
for this to move forward.

00:21:32.750 --> 00:21:33.973
<v ->I'm comfortable with that.</v>

00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:39.530
It seems like what you're, if I'm understanding you right,

00:21:39.530 --> 00:21:42.120
what you say is we wanna go out there and assess now

00:21:42.120 --> 00:21:43.170
and get that done quickly

00:21:43.170 --> 00:21:44.870
and then come back and then form a plan

00:21:44.870 --> 00:21:45.720
to remediate based on that assessment.

00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.600
<v ->I think that's a fair statement.</v>

00:21:47.600 --> 00:21:49.676
<v ->Okay, well then,</v>

00:21:49.676 --> 00:21:51.360
because right now, if we don't issue an order

00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:53.370
that they have to go out and do an assessment,

00:21:53.370 --> 00:21:55.686
then there's no way to gather the data that they need,

00:21:55.686 --> 00:21:57.400
so should we,

00:21:57.400 --> 00:21:59.730
and I'm asking here,

00:21:59.730 --> 00:22:00.910
what's the most effective way?

00:22:00.910 --> 00:22:02.143
I like the Chairman's plan.

00:22:02.143 --> 00:22:04.820
Can we put a tight timeframe on,

00:22:04.820 --> 00:22:06.600
go out and assess now

00:22:06.600 --> 00:22:09.173
and then come back and put together a plan?

00:22:10.146 --> 00:22:12.070
Because I don't think we have to remand this back to staff

00:22:12.070 --> 00:22:13.520
to say they need to go out and assess, right?

00:22:13.520 --> 00:22:14.750
That's what you're saying?

00:22:14.750 --> 00:22:17.570
<v ->No, I'm asking them to assess and to go in,</v>

00:22:17.570 --> 00:22:19.720
I'll reread my thing,

00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:24.400
to offer specific assessment, delineation, and remediation

00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.840
plans and that those plans come back to the examiner

00:22:26.840 --> 00:22:27.763
in 60 days.

00:22:28.850 --> 00:22:30.460
<v ->But they can't develop remediation plans</v>

00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:31.293
until the assessments are done.

00:22:31.293 --> 00:22:33.210
<v ->But I think they oughta be doing all of that</v>

00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:34.870
and not just wait for the assessment,

00:22:34.870 --> 00:22:36.890
wait 60 days or 180 days,

00:22:36.890 --> 00:22:39.280
then come back in and say, "We're gonna clean something up."

00:22:39.280 --> 00:22:41.020
I'd like to see,

00:22:41.020 --> 00:22:42.540
look, if you wanna put it at 90 days

00:22:42.540 --> 00:22:45.240
and you think 60's too tight a window, that's fine,

00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.520
but I want an assessment, a delineation,

00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:49.347
and I want them to come back in and say,

00:22:49.347 --> 00:22:52.290
"Based on the assessment delineation, this is our plan,"

00:22:52.290 --> 00:22:53.930
and there could be four different plans,

00:22:53.930 --> 00:22:56.080
and let's agree to those plans in 60 days

00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:58.310
so we can get this thing finished.

00:22:58.310 --> 00:23:00.680
It's been sitting here since 2012.

00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:01.890
<v ->I guess I don't understand how that's different</v>

00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:03.000
from what's currently in the order.

00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.871
<v ->Because she's got 180 days just for an assessment</v>

00:23:05.871 --> 00:23:09.310
and decide whether we need to do anything.

00:23:09.310 --> 00:23:10.347
I want a plan together.

00:23:10.347 --> 00:23:13.406
I want all parties to agree on a plan.

00:23:13.406 --> 00:23:14.290
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:23:14.290 --> 00:23:16.570
<v ->So we're not fighting about it in 180 days,</v>

00:23:16.570 --> 00:23:18.250
and it's not back before,

00:23:18.250 --> 00:23:20.053
served before staff.

00:23:20.053 --> 00:23:22.090
I thought it was a little broad how you left it.

00:23:22.090 --> 00:23:24.300
I'm trying to tighten it up.

00:23:24.300 --> 00:23:25.133
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:23:26.972 --> 00:23:29.710
What I'm stuck on is how do they,

00:23:29.710 --> 00:23:32.520
are you asking for them to do an assessment, and then

00:23:32.520 --> 00:23:34.260
<v ->I'm asking them to do an assessment.</v>

00:23:34.260 --> 00:23:37.167
Yes, and to do a delineation in 60 days.

00:23:37.167 --> 00:23:38.040
That's what I said.

00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:38.873
<v ->If you think</v>
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:23:38.873 --> 00:23:40.030
<v ->it's too tight of a timeframe,</v>

00:23:40.030 --> 00:23:41.750
we can adjust it a little bit broader.

00:23:41.750 --> 00:23:44.970
<v ->Do you want a remediation requirement in there as well?</v>

00:23:44.970 --> 00:23:47.810
<v ->I'm asking them to tell me if what we need to do is</v>

00:23:47.810 --> 00:23:49.503
a specific plan, yes.

00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:55.060
<v ->Can you read your motion again?</v>

00:23:55.060 --> 00:23:56.190
I'm sorry.
<v ->Sure.</v>

00:23:56.190 --> 00:23:58.572
I move that we remand this case for the limited purpose

00:23:58.572 --> 00:24:00.560
of reopening the hearing to,

00:24:00.560 --> 00:24:02.020
I think, look, I'm not disagreeing

00:24:02.020 --> 00:24:03.130
with the findings she's found.

00:24:03.130 --> 00:24:04.053
I think that her order is too broad,

00:24:04.053 --> 00:24:05.080
okay?
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:24:05.080 --> 00:24:06.870
<v ->So this is why I'm sending it back.</v>

00:24:06.870 --> 00:24:09.290
For reopening the hearing to allow the parties,

00:24:09.290 --> 00:24:11.530
including our staff, an opportunity

00:24:11.530 --> 00:24:16.350
to offer specific assessment, delineation, and remediation

00:24:16.350 --> 00:24:19.360
plans and that any such plans be submitted

00:24:19.360 --> 00:24:22.650
to the examiners within 60 days from today,

00:24:22.650 --> 00:24:25.070
and based on those plans, then you're gonna come back

00:24:25.070 --> 00:24:27.720
with an order and say, "This is what we're gonna do,"

00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:29.753
based on the,

00:24:29.753 --> 00:24:31.033
whatever they find.

00:24:32.110 --> 00:24:33.756
<v ->Okay, so if the--</v>

00:24:33.756 --> 00:24:36.614
<v ->I mean, if y'all think that's too tight a--</v>

00:24:36.614 --> 00:24:38.293
<v ->It's not</v>
<v ->Is Peter in the room?</v>

00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:43.310
I know the parties are in the room.

00:24:43.310 --> 00:24:44.650
I mean, is that too tight, yes sir?

00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:46.180
<v David>I don't think it's too tight.</v>

00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:47.013
David Cooney.

00:24:47.013 --> 00:24:48.911
I represent the staff in the hearing.

00:24:48.911 --> 00:24:49.744
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:24:49.744 --> 00:24:51.047
<v David>60 days should be plenty of time.</v>

00:24:51.047 --> 00:24:52.570
<v ->Okay.</v>
<v David>That we know of.</v>

00:24:52.570 --> 00:24:53.403
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:24:53.403 --> 00:24:54.890
James?

00:24:54.890 --> 00:24:56.800
<v James>Targa has already submitted a plan</v>

00:24:56.800 --> 00:25:00.580
to delineate that was approved a year and a half ago,

00:25:00.580 --> 00:25:03.881
two years ago, and just has never moved forward.

00:25:03.881 --> 00:25:05.240
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:06.680
Where are the other two?

00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:08.830
Sorry, I know y'all are all here.

00:25:08.830 --> 00:25:10.100
Anybody else complaining?

00:25:10.100 --> 00:25:13.040
I mean, it seems to me we should be able to move this along.

00:25:13.040 --> 00:25:14.610
Yes sir?

00:25:14.610 --> 00:25:15.534
Jamie, go ahead.

00:25:15.534 --> 00:25:17.049
<v Man>60 days sounds good to us.</v>

00:25:17.049 --> 00:25:20.020
<v ->Okay, thank you.</v>

00:25:20.020 --> 00:25:21.523
<v Jamie>60 days is a tight timeframe.</v>

00:25:21.523 --> 00:25:24.686
I might just perhaps even place under 180

00:25:24.686 --> 00:25:25.519
and then order in 60 days,

00:25:26.936 --> 00:25:28.470
that that may be an option,

00:25:28.470 --> 00:25:32.270
but given Targa is the only identified point of discharge

00:25:32.270 --> 00:25:34.760
Burlington has some concern that

00:25:34.760 --> 00:25:37.620
allowing this to go forward is jamming up the system.

00:25:37.620 --> 00:25:38.453
This case took a long time to go--

00:25:38.453 --> 00:25:40.040
<v ->I appreciate it, but let me,</v>

00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:42.010
I'm not changing the findings in it, Jamie,

00:25:42.010 --> 00:25:43.360
and so y'all don't have any,

00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:44.550
you aren't in the findings,

00:25:44.550 --> 00:25:45.520
so you don't have to worry.

00:25:45.520 --> 00:25:46.620
If you choose, look,

00:25:46.620 --> 00:25:49.890
this is an optional, if parties choose to participate in this,

00:25:49.890 --> 00:25:50.723
by the way.

00:25:50.723 --> 00:25:52.390
We're not forcing you to.

00:25:52.390 --> 00:25:53.924
So, okay.

00:25:53.924 --> 00:25:56.500
I'm not gonna re-litigate the case right here.

00:25:56.500 --> 00:25:58.543
I'm just sending it back for one reason.

00:26:01.605 --> 00:26:03.580
[Man] My partner and I are not sure

00:26:03.580 --> 00:26:06.090
we've heard everything you're saying today.

00:26:06.090 --> 00:26:09.567
We can come up with a plan about how to do this

00:26:09.567 --> 00:26:10.484
in 60 days,

00:26:12.104 --> 00:26:13.337
getting it done.

00:26:13.337 --> 00:26:15.630
<v ->No, I didn't say you were gonna have it done in 60 days.</v>

00:26:15.630 --> 00:26:17.090
I want it planned that so,

00:26:17.090 --> 00:26:19.140
when you go back to the examiner,

00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:20.880
if he's got a plan and you've got a plan

00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.240
and our staff has a plan that y'all all agree on the plan,

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.160
and then you're gonna execute it in 180,

00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:27.030
or whatever she comes back and tells me,

00:26:27.030 --> 00:26:29.175
is the executable date.

00:26:29.175 --> 00:26:32.330
<v ->And do we do the delineation in 60 days?</v>

00:26:32.330 --> 00:26:33.882
<v ->Yes, sir. That's part of my motion.</v>

00:26:33.882 --> 00:26:35.245
<v ->Well, we're gonna need a little more time</v>

00:26:35.245 --> 00:26:38.844
to get that work, the physical work done.

00:26:38.844 --> 00:26:40.510
<v Ryan>You're talking about the assessment of the site?</v>

00:26:40.510 --> 00:26:41.410
<v Christi>No, he's talking about,</v>

00:26:41.410 --> 00:26:43.040
I've got assessment, delineation,

00:26:43.040 --> 00:26:43.873
<v Ryan>Agree.</v>

00:26:43.873 --> 00:26:46.340
<v Christi>And so is 90 days,</v>

00:26:46.340 --> 00:26:48.493
that's what I'm asking, is 60 too tight?

00:26:51.210 --> 00:26:53.100
<v ->Shouldn't they be speaking on the record actually</v>

00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:54.340
if we're going through this?

00:26:54.340 --> 00:26:56.083
I mean, do we need to capture this?

00:26:57.281 --> 00:26:58.390
Are we okay with just,

00:26:58.390 --> 00:26:59.376
from the audience?

00:26:59.376 --> 00:27:00.696
(laughs)

00:27:00.696 --> 00:27:03.396
<v Man>I think it would take at least 90 just to get,</v>

00:27:04.330 --> 00:27:05.670
because my anticipation is,

00:27:05.670 --> 00:27:07.593
we're gonna be doing some digging.

00:27:07.593 --> 00:27:08.873
<v ->Mhm.</v>

00:27:08.873 --> 00:27:13.049
<v Man>And that's gonna require things like removing</v>

00:27:13.049 --> 00:27:15.810
the water from the pond,

00:27:15.810 --> 00:27:17.235
getting the equipment out there,

00:27:17.235 --> 00:27:20.497
and digging through the contamination area,

00:27:20.497 --> 00:27:23.540
and 60 days, I doubt, it's not gonna be enough.

00:27:23.540 --> 00:27:25.010
<v ->Okay, then I'm gonna give you 90.</v>

00:27:25.010 --> 00:27:28.150
I'm gonna adjust my motion for 90.

00:27:28.150 --> 00:27:28.983
I want a plan.

00:27:28.983 --> 00:27:29.816
<v ->Is that enough?</v>

00:27:29.816 --> 00:27:30.649
<v ->Is that, I mean, look,</v>

00:27:30.649 --> 00:27:31.482
this needs to be done.

00:27:31.482 --> 00:27:32.940
It's time to get this case cleared.

00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:35.980
So, is 90 days,

00:27:35.980 --> 00:27:37.665
y'all can handle 90 days?

00:27:37.665 --> 00:27:38.640
You're not gonna be fishing in it?

00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.790
You can know within 90 days, 90 days?

00:27:40.790 --> 00:27:41.760
<v Jamie>90 days is fine.</v>

00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:44.900
I just want to clarify who will be doing the assessment.

00:27:44.900 --> 00:27:46.452
Is the Commission gonna be doing the assessment,

00:27:46.452 --> 00:27:48.487
or is Targa?
<v ->Good question.</v>

00:27:48.487 --> 00:27:51.950
<v ->Well, we found Targa as the liable party,</v>

00:27:51.950 --> 00:27:54.770
so, at this point, is a responsible person.

00:27:54.770 --> 00:27:55.800
Let me say that.

00:27:55.800 --> 00:27:58.180
So, Targa needs to be doing the delineation.

00:27:58.180 --> 00:27:59.650
All people like, in my--

00:27:59.650 --> 00:28:00.870
<v Ryan>At our staff's direction.</v>

00:28:00.870 --> 00:28:02.343
<v ->At our staff's direction.</v>

00:28:03.630 --> 00:28:06.300
So no, you're not doing the delineation.

00:28:06.300 --> 00:28:07.990
Yes sir? Is that fair?

00:28:07.990 --> 00:28:09.940
Everybody got it? We clear?

00:28:09.940 --> 00:28:10.773
I'm not changing,

00:28:10.773 --> 00:28:12.410
I just want a specific plan.

00:28:12.410 --> 00:28:14.080
If not, I'll throw out my motion.

00:28:14.080 --> 00:28:16.760
We can go with what we got, but I want it done, James,

00:28:16.760 --> 00:28:17.977
one way or the other, so,

00:28:17.977 --> 00:28:19.511
<v James>Might as well get things done.</v>

00:28:19.511 --> 00:28:20.972
<v ->That's fine.</v>

00:28:20.972 --> 00:28:24.014
<v James>I would anticipate that you're gonna</v>

00:28:24.014 --> 00:28:27.830
want us to do it in ways that the staff has approved.

00:28:27.830 --> 00:28:28.663
<v ->Yes, sir.</v>

00:28:28.663 --> 00:28:30.790
<v ->And I don't want staff sitting on it any longer, too.</v>

00:28:30.790 --> 00:28:32.470
It's all of y'all.
<v James>My suggestion is,</v>

00:28:32.470 --> 00:28:35.907
if you give us 90 days to get the staffers' approved plan

00:28:35.907 --> 00:28:39.470
so that we don't need to up any of that time.

00:28:43.683 --> 00:28:47.387
<v Man>I don't think we need that, Madam Chair.</v>

00:28:47.387 --> 00:28:49.670
The staff will be on top of this.

00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.130
We will respond quickly.

00:28:53.130 --> 00:28:54.080
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:28:54.080 --> 00:28:55.550
You got 90 days.

00:28:55.550 --> 00:28:57.730
So my motion is amended to say 90 days.

00:28:57.730 --> 00:28:59.240
Would you like me to reread it?

00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:00.073
<v Jennifer>Yes, please.</v>

00:29:00.073 --> 00:29:01.170
<v ->Still got a concern about it?</v>

00:29:01.170 --> 00:29:02.940
<v ->I think I'm good as long as we're clear</v>

00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:06.447
that staff's gonna direct the assessment,

00:29:06.447 --> 00:29:07.320
Targa's gonna do it.

00:29:07.320 --> 00:29:09.620
You have 90 days to do an assessment, and,

00:29:09.620 --> 00:29:10.560
based on those assessments,

00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:12.627
come back, delineate what's the responsibility,

00:29:12.627 --> 00:29:13.900
and then put together

00:29:14.950 --> 00:29:17.740
whatever competing or different clean-up plans

00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:20.770
that, in 90 days, that clean-up plan will be set,

00:29:20.770 --> 00:29:22.730
and then whoever has to can go out

00:29:22.730 --> 00:29:23.563
and remediate it from there.

00:29:23.563 --> 00:29:25.120
That's
<v ->And it'll come back to you,</v>

00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:28.847
you'll agree on the plan, and then you come back,

00:29:28.847 --> 00:29:30.300
and we'll say, "Yes, thank you."

00:29:30.300 --> 00:29:32.953
<v Man>We'll makes a recommendation on the proposed plan,</v>

00:29:32.953 --> 00:29:35.910
and you can choose to take the plans that are presented

00:29:35.910 --> 00:29:38.240
or choose your own plan if it differs,

00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:39.830
but once the plans have come back in

00:29:39.830 --> 00:29:41.480
and evidence has been taken,

00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:43.616
a PFD will be circulated, identified,

00:29:43.616 --> 00:29:46.460
another PFD will be circulated adopting, or including,

00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:47.430
those proposed plans

00:29:47.430 --> 00:29:49.141
along with the examiner's recommendation

00:29:49.141 --> 00:29:50.860
after you're consideration.

00:29:50.860 --> 00:29:52.080
<v ->Okay.</v>
<v ->Fine with me.</v>

00:29:52.080 --> 00:29:52.913
<v ->Thank you.</v>
<v Jennifer>Thank you.</v>

00:29:52.913 --> 00:29:54.170
<v ->So do you want me to reread this?</v>

00:29:54.170 --> 00:29:55.087
<v Jennifer>No, I understand it.</v>

00:29:55.087 --> 00:29:57.700
<v ->Alright, I'm just gonna change my original to 90 days.</v>

00:29:57.700 --> 00:30:01.063
Alright, so I have a remand and a motion.

00:30:01.940 --> 00:30:02.773
I need a second.

00:30:02.773 --> 00:30:03.820
Is there a second?
<v ->Second.</v>

00:30:03.820 --> 00:30:05.060
<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

00:30:05.060 --> 00:30:06.529
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:07.600
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:30:07.600 --> 00:30:09.040
<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

00:30:09.040 --> 00:30:11.480
Thank you, Jennifer, for the work on this.

00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:12.413
Number 11.

00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:16.760
<v ->Item 11 is a motion for rehearing.</v>

00:30:16.760 --> 00:30:19.890
On February 27, 2018, the Commission issued an order

00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:23.530
adopting the ALJ's proposal for decision in this case,

00:30:23.530 --> 00:30:25.750
finding that Polk Operating, LLC,

00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:29.260
committed the violations alleged by Commission staff

00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:33.580
and ordering Polk's permit to be suspended

00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:35.976
until Polk is in compliance with the terms of its permit

00:30:35.976 --> 00:30:39.860
and applicable Commission rules and regulations.

00:30:39.860 --> 00:30:42.200
A timely motion for rehearing was received.

00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:45.550
Staff filed a response and opposition to the motion.

00:30:45.550 --> 00:30:47.320
None of the information provided in the motion

00:30:47.320 --> 00:30:48.180
for rehearing is new.

00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:50.210
The information discussed in the motion

00:30:50.210 --> 00:30:51.690
was considered by the Commission

00:30:51.690 --> 00:30:54.673
prior to the Commission issuing the order in this case.

00:30:54.673 --> 00:30:57.430
Therefore, the ALJ recommends denying the motion,

00:30:57.430 --> 00:30:59.530
and the motion will be overruled by operation of law

00:30:59.530 --> 00:31:03.360
on June 7, 2018, and I'm available for questions.

00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:04.850
<v Christi>Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

00:31:04.850 --> 00:31:07.730
Alright, I move we approve the examiner's recommendation.

00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:09.110
Is there a second?
<v ->Second.</v>

00:31:09.110 --> 00:31:10.820
Second by Commissioner Christian.

00:31:10.820 --> 00:31:12.116
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:31:12.116 --> 00:31:12.949
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:31:12.949 --> 00:31:14.770
<v ->Motion passes, item is approved.</v>

00:31:14.770 --> 00:31:16.310
Thank you, Jennifer.

00:31:17.290 --> 00:31:20.070
Items 12 through 16.

00:31:22.513 --> 00:31:24.340
<v ->Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners.</v>

00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:27.108
Clayton Hoover, Administrative Law Judge.

00:31:27.108 --> 00:31:30.010
Items 12 to 16 are motions for rehearing

00:31:30.010 --> 00:31:32.183
on five good-faith claim dockets.

00:31:33.270 --> 00:31:35.450
These are all complaints by Laura Briggs

00:31:35.450 --> 00:31:37.480
challenging the operator's good-faith claim

00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:39.550
to continue to operate.

00:31:39.550 --> 00:31:40.810
In cases of a complaint

00:31:40.810 --> 00:31:42.780
that an operator has no good-faith claim,

00:31:42.780 --> 00:31:46.280
the sole issue is whether they have a claim to title,

00:31:46.280 --> 00:31:49.980
usually, in oil and gas lease, in accordance with Rule 15

00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:51.353
in the Magnolia case.

00:31:52.320 --> 00:31:55.070
The operator received the standard 30-day letter

00:31:55.070 --> 00:31:56.530
informing them of the complaints

00:31:56.530 --> 00:31:59.420
and requiring operator to furnish evidence

00:31:59.420 --> 00:32:00.570
of their good-faith claim

00:32:00.570 --> 00:32:03.870
or to request a hearing within 30 days.

00:32:03.870 --> 00:32:05.860
If an operator fails to respond,

00:32:05.860 --> 00:32:09.290
the complaint dockets proceed as defaults.

00:32:09.290 --> 00:32:12.230
In these dockets, operator failed to respond

00:32:12.230 --> 00:32:14.704
with evidence or to request hearings.

00:32:14.704 --> 00:32:18.620
Default orders were entered finding no good-faith claim

00:32:18.620 --> 00:32:21.140
and ordering the wells to be plugged.

00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:25.450
Following entry of the order, operator timely filed

00:32:25.450 --> 00:32:27.370
these motions for rehearing.

00:32:27.370 --> 00:32:29.250
The motions and the attachments,

00:32:29.250 --> 00:32:31.550
which are mostly oil and gas leases,

00:32:31.550 --> 00:32:34.200
satisfy the three prongs of the Craddock test

00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:35.363
for granting a hearing.

00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:38.780
Operator represents, Number one,

00:32:38.780 --> 00:32:41.130
operator represents that its failure to respond

00:32:41.130 --> 00:32:43.130
was not intentional nor the result

00:32:43.130 --> 00:32:45.110
of conscious indifference.

00:32:45.110 --> 00:32:49.550
Number two, operator has set out facts and documents, which,

00:32:49.550 --> 00:32:51.640
if proven up in a hearing,

00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:53.410
could establish a good-faith claim

00:32:53.410 --> 00:32:56.270
and constitute a meritorious defense.

00:32:56.270 --> 00:33:00.200
Number three, operator claims that any resulting delay

00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:02.710
is insignificant, and in these cases,

00:33:02.710 --> 00:33:05.980
plugging of wells that may be capable of production

00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:08.222
will probably result in additional dockets

00:33:08.222 --> 00:33:10.690
to supersede the plugging orders,

00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:13.090
so granting the motions would actually promote

00:33:13.090 --> 00:33:15.050
judicial economy.

00:33:15.050 --> 00:33:17.260
The recommendation is to grant the five motions

00:33:17.260 --> 00:33:18.400
for rehearing.

00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.280
The motions will be overruled by operation of law

00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:23.830
on June 28th, 2018.

00:33:23.830 --> 00:33:25.323
I'm available for questions.

00:33:28.585 --> 00:33:29.650
<v ->Are there any questions?</v>

00:33:29.650 --> 00:33:31.142
<v ->Yes, please.</v>

00:33:31.142 --> 00:33:33.931
<v ->Have at it.</v>

00:33:33.931 --> 00:33:36.074
<v ->Am I understanding that they did</v>

00:33:36.074 --> 00:33:38.600
miss the deadline?

00:33:38.600 --> 00:33:40.788
<v Clayton>Yes, sir. They missed the deadline.</v>

00:33:40.788 --> 00:33:42.340
<v ->Okay.</v>

00:33:42.340 --> 00:33:45.440
I've heard a lot of excuses through the short time

00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.333
I've been here of us not allowing this,

00:33:49.330 --> 00:33:51.970
because of death and all kinds of reasons I've heard

00:33:51.970 --> 00:33:53.500
that people miss deadlines.

00:33:53.500 --> 00:33:57.600
Why are we making an exception to the practice

00:33:57.600 --> 00:34:00.530
by allowing this after they've missed the deadline?

00:34:00.530 --> 00:34:02.650
<v ->It's not an exception to the general practice.</v>

00:34:02.650 --> 00:34:05.160
It's just in this specific case,

00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.240
they're saying it wasn't conscious indifference

00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:11.080
or anything other than just a miscommunication,

00:34:11.080 --> 00:34:14.068
and we've done that in the past in the creative dockets.

00:34:14.068 --> 00:34:16.350
In fact, those went back for rehearing.

00:34:16.350 --> 00:34:18.470
It was found there was no good-faith claim,

00:34:18.470 --> 00:34:20.810
and now we have supersede dockets

00:34:20.810 --> 00:34:23.380
to get a new operator for the active wells,

00:34:23.380 --> 00:34:24.270
and that's the case here.

00:34:24.270 --> 00:34:27.740
These wells have produced very recently.

00:34:27.740 --> 00:34:29.620
They may be capable of production.

00:34:29.620 --> 00:34:32.240
We didn't get any evidence of that,

00:34:32.240 --> 00:34:34.470
and if we deny the motion for rehearing,

00:34:34.470 --> 00:34:37.300
the wells are subject to a plugging order,

00:34:37.300 --> 00:34:39.710
even though somebody else may wanna come in

00:34:39.710 --> 00:34:40.960
and operate them,

00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.050
and so, if someone else wants to come in and operate them,

00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:45.270
they'll have to file dockets

00:34:45.270 --> 00:34:47.147
to supersede the plugging order,

00:34:47.147 --> 00:34:50.130
and that was the difficulty we've had

00:34:50.130 --> 00:34:53.840
in not granting motions for rehearing

00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:56.520
when there appears to be a good-faith claim

00:34:56.520 --> 00:34:59.390
and some reasonable explanation

00:35:01.630 --> 00:35:04.480
and here, once again, they say it was a miscommunication.

00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:07.790
<v Christi>What's that mean?</v>

00:35:07.790 --> 00:35:09.430
<v ->That's all it said.</v>

00:35:09.430 --> 00:35:11.133
<v Christi>That's part of the problem.</v>

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.810
<v ->And each of the motions had oil and gas leases attached,</v>

00:35:15.810 --> 00:35:17.760
which they claim are valid,

00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:21.263
and they just want a chance to prove that up in a hearing.

00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:25.620
<v ->I want them to be able to produce, et cetera,</v>

00:35:25.620 --> 00:35:28.140
and wanna make sure that we don't stop

00:35:28.140 --> 00:35:31.060
the necessary good-faith production of oil and gas

00:35:31.060 --> 00:35:32.523
in Texas, but it concerns,

00:35:33.710 --> 00:35:35.510
it seems like we're making an exception

00:35:35.510 --> 00:35:38.260
to previous considerations and that,

00:35:38.260 --> 00:35:39.400
to make an,

00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:43.190
I wanna be consistent on those practices that we have done

00:35:43.190 --> 00:35:45.367
so that other people can know that,

00:35:45.367 --> 00:35:47.570
"Okay, if I don't do this

00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:49.830
that the rules apply to them equally."

00:35:49.830 --> 00:35:52.060
<v ->And, Commissioner, just for your perspective,</v>

00:35:52.060 --> 00:35:55.110
a year ago, in a case almost exactly like this,

00:35:55.110 --> 00:35:56.650
where it had been a default,

00:35:56.650 --> 00:35:59.373
I recommended denial of the motions for rehearing,

00:36:00.212 --> 00:36:02.270
and I was overruled by the Commission,

00:36:02.270 --> 00:36:04.680
and the motions for rehearing were granted,

00:36:04.680 --> 00:36:07.740
so I don't think there is any important precedent

00:36:07.740 --> 00:36:08.800
in this one case.

00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:11.780
It just goes on the specifics of this one case.

00:36:11.780 --> 00:36:16.150
The default orders and good-faith claim,

00:36:16.150 --> 00:36:18.450
dockets go out routinely,

00:36:18.450 --> 00:36:21.436
and this will not interrupt that process.

00:36:21.436 --> 00:36:23.020
<v Christian>Thank you.</v>

00:36:23.020 --> 00:36:25.160
<v Ryan>Clay, if I can, you said the well,</v>

00:36:25.160 --> 00:36:26.910
these wells have produced recently,

00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:30.340
and I appreciate Commissioner Christian's comments

00:36:30.340 --> 00:36:32.070
that we wanna be judicious,

00:36:32.070 --> 00:36:34.487
and we wanna stick with our rules.

00:36:34.487 --> 00:36:36.880
As I understand, what you're saying is,

00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:38.780
your two points that I'm keying in on,

00:36:38.780 --> 00:36:43.080
one, when we have a lack of communication,

00:36:43.080 --> 00:36:45.410
we hear a range of explanations.

00:36:45.410 --> 00:36:49.310
In this case, it was fairly generic miscommunication,

00:36:49.310 --> 00:36:51.140
but who's to say one guy's communication

00:36:51.140 --> 00:36:52.980
is not another one's family emergency?

00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:55.590
So, we have allowed miscommunication

00:36:55.590 --> 00:36:59.609
or a lack of communication as an explanation of not,

00:36:59.609 --> 00:37:03.126
you know, willful indifference to our cases.

00:37:03.126 --> 00:37:04.220
Second of all, you're saying

00:37:04.220 --> 00:37:05.930
these might be valuable wells,

00:37:05.930 --> 00:37:08.883
so we don't wanna put them on our plugging list if,

00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:10.860
we actually pulled these up.

00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:13.280
The most recent one produced, December of last year I think,

00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:14.523
but then one of these goes all the way back to, like,

00:37:14.523 --> 00:37:17.070
February of 2015, so there's kind of a range here.

00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:18.060
<v Clay>Right, there's a range.</v>

00:37:18.060 --> 00:37:19.610
We looked them up this morning.

00:37:20.680 --> 00:37:22.763
<v ->So, what I hear you saying is,</v>

00:37:25.120 --> 00:37:26.710
we could go on our plugging list,

00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:29.290
and then even if somebody else does acquire these wells,

00:37:29.290 --> 00:37:30.770
then they're gonna have to really do a lot

00:37:30.770 --> 00:37:32.390
of work to get them off our plugging list,

00:37:32.390 --> 00:37:37.390
and so, to try and save ourselves some effort,

00:37:38.290 --> 00:37:42.070
it seems like you're saying that granting this

00:37:42.070 --> 00:37:43.970
motion for rehearing gives us some leeway

00:37:43.970 --> 00:37:45.710
to maintain these wells.

00:37:45.710 --> 00:37:47.130
<v Clay>Yeah, it's</v>
<v ->If they're valuable.</v>

00:37:47.130 --> 00:37:47.963
<v ->Yes, sir.</v>

00:37:47.963 --> 00:37:51.090
It's in the interest of judicial economy because,

00:37:51.090 --> 00:37:55.520
as you say, some of the wells apparently are capable

00:37:55.520 --> 00:37:57.820
of production because of recent production,

00:37:57.820 --> 00:37:59.490
and the other wells, we just don't know.

00:37:59.490 --> 00:38:01.970
I mean, it may be related to prices.

00:38:01.970 --> 00:38:03.700
There could be shut-in royalties.

00:38:03.700 --> 00:38:07.029
It could be held by non-continuous acreage.

00:38:07.029 --> 00:38:08.400
All those are possibilities.

00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:09.710
We don't have any evidence on this.

00:38:09.710 --> 00:38:10.543
<v Ryan>Right.</v>

00:38:10.543 --> 00:38:12.910
<v ->And in the last year, in the creative cases,</v>

00:38:12.910 --> 00:38:17.376
Commissioner Christian, the excuse for not responding was,

00:38:17.376 --> 00:38:19.200
"Well, we had another docket going

00:38:19.200 --> 00:38:20.660
at the Railroad Commission,

00:38:20.660 --> 00:38:23.407
and we thought that our appearance in the other docket

00:38:23.407 --> 00:38:26.230
was a sufficient appearance in these good-faith claim

00:38:26.230 --> 00:38:30.180
complaints, and I didn't think much of that

00:38:30.180 --> 00:38:31.390
(laughs)

00:38:31.390 --> 00:38:32.250
as an explanation,

00:38:32.250 --> 00:38:34.330
and that's why I recommended denial,

00:38:34.330 --> 00:38:37.540
but I was overruled and the motions were granted,

00:38:37.540 --> 00:38:40.470
and it was still found there was no good-faith claim,

00:38:40.470 --> 00:38:44.600
and because there hadn't been an SB 4,

00:38:44.600 --> 00:38:46.800
or any kind of P-4 filed,

00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.650
we had to do the supersede dockets,

00:38:49.650 --> 00:38:51.830
which are on the consent agenda right now,

00:38:51.830 --> 00:38:56.230
so that's how long it takes to go through the other process,

00:38:56.230 --> 00:38:59.303
if active wells get on the plugging list.

00:39:00.391 --> 00:39:02.837
<v ->I'm just concerned that the excuse of,</v>

00:39:02.837 --> 00:39:05.060
"Oops, we just didn't notice,"

00:39:05.060 --> 00:39:09.060
is accepted as a reason, you know, that's--

00:39:11.230 --> 00:39:12.816
<v ->And, Chairman, to your question,</v>

00:39:12.816 --> 00:39:15.007
it's just the word "communication,"

00:39:15.007 --> 00:39:16.220
"miscommunication."

00:39:16.220 --> 00:39:18.430
It didn't elaborate,

00:39:18.430 --> 00:39:20.430
the pleadings did not elaborate on that.

00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:24.700
<v ->So, I have all these parties,</v>

00:39:24.700 --> 00:39:26.260
and then I just thought I'd throw in

00:39:26.260 --> 00:39:28.210
that we have, on Number 15,

00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:29.870
we have a new party who says

00:39:29.870 --> 00:39:31.830
they have more good-faith claim,

00:39:31.830 --> 00:39:33.760
but I'd like to know if they have a P-4,

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:35.420
so, just a minute, sir.

00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:36.253
I'm not ready for you.
<v Man>I know.</v>

00:39:36.253 --> 00:39:37.086
<v ->Just a minute.</v>

00:39:37.086 --> 00:39:38.300
I got everybody sitting here.

00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:39.598
I appreciate that you're here.

00:39:39.598 --> 00:39:42.820
So, if y'all'd like hear from all the parties,

00:39:42.820 --> 00:39:44.130
all the parties are here,

00:39:44.130 --> 00:39:46.021
plus, somebody new in 15,

00:39:46.021 --> 00:39:49.203
which means we don't have a good-faith claim, potentially.

00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.750
Stuff like this really bothers me.

00:39:52.750 --> 00:39:55.580
So I'm not gonna be for the motion for rehearing,

00:39:55.580 --> 00:39:57.010
and I don't think we should,

00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:58.820
I think these should stay as they are,

00:39:58.820 --> 00:40:00.570
but that's my personal opinion.

00:40:00.570 --> 00:40:02.960
Does anybody wanna hear from the parties?

00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:04.600
Because they are all here,

00:40:04.600 --> 00:40:07.470
and then, like I said, we have, on Number 15,

00:40:07.470 --> 00:40:09.710
somebody saying they do have a good-faith claim

00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:12.600
that, apparently, it's a new company.

00:40:12.600 --> 00:40:14.351
Do we have a P-4 for this?

00:40:14.351 --> 00:40:15.184
<v ->No.</v>

00:40:15.184 --> 00:40:17.970
We checked the P-5 for the operator.

00:40:17.970 --> 00:40:18.950
They're active,

00:40:18.950 --> 00:40:21.030
and we checked all the wellbores,

00:40:21.030 --> 00:40:23.170
and the operator is still 7S,

00:40:23.170 --> 00:40:24.960
so there is no new operator

00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:25.820
<v Christi>Okay.</v>
<v ->That we could find</v>

00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:27.710
in the Commission records.

00:40:27.710 --> 00:40:28.820
<v Christi>Okay.</v>

00:40:28.820 --> 00:40:29.830
Anybody would like,

00:40:29.830 --> 00:40:32.420
would y'all like to hear from any of these parties?

00:40:32.420 --> 00:40:35.860
Because I'm gonna make a motion the other direction,

00:40:35.860 --> 00:40:37.400
and I appreciate your work on this,

00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:39.710
but I think it's not that big a deal to supersede

00:40:39.710 --> 00:40:43.950
if we've got a true operator with a good-faith claim,

00:40:43.950 --> 00:40:47.110
and that concerns me when y'all have one of the 15.

00:40:47.110 --> 00:40:48.890
Do I need to do them all individually

00:40:48.890 --> 00:40:50.642
as I'm doing them or can I do them all?

00:40:50.642 --> 00:40:52.220
<v Man>You can do them all together if you wish.</v>

00:40:52.220 --> 00:40:54.115
<v ->So just a question because I appreciate</v>

00:40:54.115 --> 00:40:57.782
<v Man>Excuse me, that's not accurate, sir.</v>

00:40:58.923 --> 00:41:00.875
That's not accurate, sir.

00:41:00.875 --> 00:41:01.947
<v Man>Okay, thank you.</v>

00:41:01.947 --> 00:41:04.510
<v ->Clay, and I've got</v>
<v Man>You can do them all.</v>

00:41:04.510 --> 00:41:05.343
<v ->Okay, thank you.</v>

00:41:05.343 --> 00:41:06.490
<v ->I've got a question,</v>

00:41:06.490 --> 00:41:09.140
I appreciate your notion about judicial economy here.

00:41:10.160 --> 00:41:11.780
If, assuming that we,

00:41:11.780 --> 00:41:13.470
if we go with,

00:41:13.470 --> 00:41:16.080
if we deny the motion for rehearing,

00:41:16.080 --> 00:41:18.180
then these would go on a plugging list?

00:41:18.180 --> 00:41:19.080
<v Clay>Yes, sir.</v>

00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:23.610
<v ->Thinking about, because you brought up the fact</v>

00:41:23.610 --> 00:41:25.960
that hey, if someone, if these are valuable wells,

00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:27.343
someone's got to,

00:41:28.550 --> 00:41:31.100
I guess, entertain a transaction to

00:41:34.530 --> 00:41:36.220
try to be efficient.

00:41:36.220 --> 00:41:39.200
Someone's gotta entertain some sort of transaction

00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:40.340
to acquire these wells,

00:41:40.340 --> 00:41:42.470
and then they have to get them off our plugging list.

00:41:42.470 --> 00:41:44.690
Give me a sense of what,

00:41:44.690 --> 00:41:45.523
<v Clay>Right.</v>

00:41:45.523 --> 00:41:46.520
<v ->You said that that can be a hassle.</v>

00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:47.353
What is that?

00:41:47.353 --> 00:41:48.920
<v ->There are, pretty much, two arenas.</v>

00:41:49.773 --> 00:41:53.610
In the title arena, they would have to go obtain

00:41:53.610 --> 00:41:57.190
a lease or an assignment from whoever owns the lease now

00:41:57.190 --> 00:41:59.770
or a new lease if the lease is expired,

00:41:59.770 --> 00:42:01.620
and those are things that the Commission

00:42:01.620 --> 00:42:04.110
does not have jurisdiction to resolve,

00:42:04.110 --> 00:42:06.180
although they're obviously considered in this.

00:42:06.180 --> 00:42:09.100
And then the other arena is the regulatory arena,

00:42:09.100 --> 00:42:13.550
and they would have to file a P-4.

00:42:13.550 --> 00:42:15.040
In the creative case, we actually had

00:42:15.040 --> 00:42:16.750
a double-signature P-4 filed,

00:42:16.750 --> 00:42:18.230
so it was pretty easy.

00:42:18.230 --> 00:42:21.310
They could also file a single-signature P-4

00:42:21.310 --> 00:42:24.000
and prove up their good-faith claim,

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.210
and with the single-signature P-4,

00:42:26.210 --> 00:42:30.140
there'd need to be an application to supersede

00:42:30.140 --> 00:42:33.050
the plugging order in these dockets,

00:42:33.050 --> 00:42:36.970
and that would, oftentimes that goes to hearing.

00:42:36.970 --> 00:42:38.720
We've had those go to hearing,

00:42:38.720 --> 00:42:41.220
and staff sometimes participates

00:42:41.220 --> 00:42:45.143
and gives perspective on the supersede,

00:42:46.511 --> 00:42:50.230
and, especially if there's a P-6 involved

00:42:50.230 --> 00:42:53.380
where they're separating out wells, one from another,

00:42:53.380 --> 00:42:56.200
on a lease, because sometimes people don't wanna take on

00:42:56.200 --> 00:42:58.300
all of the wells on a lease,

00:42:58.300 --> 00:43:01.400
so it can require another hearing and another conference,

00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:04.270
and, for instance, in creative,

00:43:04.270 --> 00:43:06.050
granting the motion for rehearing

00:43:07.235 --> 00:43:11.080
and then finding no good-faith claim

00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:15.030
and then coming back with the supersede dockets took a year,

00:43:15.030 --> 00:43:17.800
so it's been really a year since

00:43:18.950 --> 00:43:22.820
the operatorship of those wells has been clear,

00:43:22.820 --> 00:43:25.353
and so, that's, you know, it's,

00:43:26.358 --> 00:43:28.970
I appreciate your comments about precedent,

00:43:28.970 --> 00:43:31.480
and that was the reason I made the recommendation

00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:34.470
to deny the motion for rehearing last year,

00:43:34.470 --> 00:43:37.240
and I had the different perspective this year,

00:43:37.240 --> 00:43:40.490
so I, you know, it's a difficult decision.

00:43:40.490 --> 00:43:42.540
I appreciate what you have to decide.

00:43:42.540 --> 00:43:44.260
<v ->So, what I understood there is, you got,</v>

00:43:44.260 --> 00:43:45.770
so two processes have to unfold

00:43:45.770 --> 00:43:48.530
assuming that we find no good-faith claim.

00:43:48.530 --> 00:43:52.209
There's a civil matter of okay, who owns these.

00:43:52.209 --> 00:43:53.410
And I've read through the record.

00:43:53.410 --> 00:43:56.160
You've got some interesting assertions

00:43:56.160 --> 00:43:59.590
about the current operators and their background,

00:43:59.590 --> 00:44:00.697
lien holders, all that stuff,

00:44:00.697 --> 00:44:02.204
but those people will work that out,

00:44:02.204 --> 00:44:05.470
who actually has legal title to this.

00:44:05.470 --> 00:44:07.850
Once that's worked out, then someone's gonna come back

00:44:07.850 --> 00:44:09.110
and say, "Hey, I want those wells."

00:44:09.110 --> 00:44:11.810
That's when it comes really back into our lap.

00:44:11.810 --> 00:44:14.260
<v ->Yeah, and we don't always wait for that to be resolved.</v>

00:44:14.260 --> 00:44:16.740
I mean, good-faith claim is a much lower bar

00:44:16.740 --> 00:44:19.020
than resolving a title issue

00:44:19.020 --> 00:44:20.030
<v Ryan>Understood.</v>
<v ->in district court,</v>

00:44:20.030 --> 00:44:23.040
and there are even cases where two people can be found

00:44:23.040 --> 00:44:24.930
to have a good-faith claim,

00:44:24.930 --> 00:44:28.970
because it's just a defensible theory

00:44:28.970 --> 00:44:33.970
using facts and a recognized legal precedent

00:44:34.060 --> 00:44:35.920
that shows you have a good-faith claim,

00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:38.540
and as we all know, two people can have that

00:44:38.540 --> 00:44:41.483
before an item starts in district court,

00:44:42.649 --> 00:44:43.820
but you're exactly right.

00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:46.025
There are two arenas,
<v Ryan>Okay.</v>

00:44:46.025 --> 00:44:46.858
<v ->the tite arena,</v>

00:44:46.858 --> 00:44:49.830
which is technically beyond our jurisdiction,

00:44:49.830 --> 00:44:51.540
and then the regulatory arena,

00:44:51.540 --> 00:44:52.960
which is what we're here to decide,

00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:54.110
who's gonna operate the wells.

00:44:54.110 --> 00:44:54.943
<v Ryan>Okay.</v>

00:44:54.943 --> 00:44:56.380
<v Man>Commissioner, an investigation will appear</v>

00:44:56.380 --> 00:44:57.380
in six months.

00:44:57.380 --> 00:44:58.870
<v Ryan>Okay.</v>

00:44:58.870 --> 00:45:00.590
Well, my comments are,

00:45:00.590 --> 00:45:03.300
even though I'm reading through this,

00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:07.800
there seems like these operators have some questions about

00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:09.020
how these guys are a new business,

00:45:09.020 --> 00:45:11.810
and I like your judicial economy,

00:45:11.810 --> 00:45:14.030
and I appreciate the fact you're trying to find some,

00:45:14.030 --> 00:45:15.113
some precedence in the midst

00:45:15.113 --> 00:45:18.010
of changing rulings for the Commission,

00:45:18.010 --> 00:45:20.823
so I'll support this, your motion.

00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:24.957
I think we should grant it to,

00:45:24.957 --> 00:45:27.200
and like as Clay said, in the interest of judicial economy

00:45:27.200 --> 00:45:28.970
to stick with the motion that was made a year ago,

00:45:28.970 --> 00:45:31.310
or the process we established a year ago,

00:45:31.310 --> 00:45:33.060
but I appreciate what he said about

00:45:34.950 --> 00:45:37.160
sticking with process and sticking with our rules.

00:45:37.160 --> 00:45:38.410
<v ->Madam Chairman?</v>
<v ->Yes?</v>

00:45:40.050 --> 00:45:41.760
<v ->And that's my concern, Commissioner Sitton,</v>

00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.790
is if we made one ruling a year ago that then

00:45:44.790 --> 00:45:46.510
has changed the precedent,

00:45:46.510 --> 00:45:48.700
and it kind of concerns me that, you know,

00:45:48.700 --> 00:45:51.700
if we do an exception then the word "exception" is there,

00:45:51.700 --> 00:45:55.090
so the precedent should not be set on the exceptions,

00:45:55.090 --> 00:45:56.919
and I'm afraid if,

00:45:56.919 --> 00:45:59.510
and I don't recall the specifics of the previous case

00:45:59.510 --> 00:46:00.343
you refer to.

00:46:00.343 --> 00:46:02.570
I respect that, that we did an exception,

00:46:02.570 --> 00:46:05.640
but these, continually, about three or four times,

00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:09.640
you've mentioned, these are valuable properties, okay?

00:46:09.640 --> 00:46:12.770
So it questions me to find how they're gonna just

00:46:12.770 --> 00:46:14.330
all of a sudden, "Well, it doesn't matter anymore,

00:46:14.330 --> 00:46:16.634
and somebody else may grab it," and whatever like this.

00:46:16.634 --> 00:46:19.000
I don't understand, if it's valuable,

00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:23.370
then it's worth their effort to meet the rules,

00:46:23.370 --> 00:46:25.390
and if it was valuable to start with,

00:46:25.390 --> 00:46:28.822
I would think, on all these different situations,

00:46:28.822 --> 00:46:32.170
it mystifies me that they missed the deadline,

00:46:32.170 --> 00:46:33.820
didn't do what was proper,

00:46:33.820 --> 00:46:35.790
if they were valuable resources.

00:46:35.790 --> 00:46:39.823
Now, I can see exceptions if it was a strange situation,

00:46:39.823 --> 00:46:42.790
you know, some situation that may have some except,

00:46:42.790 --> 00:46:44.740
but these were valuable properties.

00:46:44.740 --> 00:46:46.610
They should have valuable staff, valuable people

00:46:46.610 --> 00:46:47.443
working on it,

00:46:47.443 --> 00:46:49.840
and they missed a deadline,

00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:54.840
and I don't see an exception in that chain.

00:46:54.850 --> 00:46:55.683
Sorry.

00:46:58.110 --> 00:47:00.130
<v ->One other person that I wanna make sure we,</v>

00:47:00.130 --> 00:47:01.390
the GLO's here,

00:47:01.390 --> 00:47:04.440
so if y'all wanna hear from the GLO on Number 12,

00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:05.273
apparently.

00:47:07.428 --> 00:47:08.410
I don't know.

00:47:08.410 --> 00:47:10.584
They haven't been party to this either.

00:47:10.584 --> 00:47:11.893
<v Daryl>If you would like to hear it.</v>

00:47:11.893 --> 00:47:14.010
<v ->Daryl, you have something different to add</v>

00:47:14.010 --> 00:47:16.510
than where we are, I mean, I guess is my question.

00:47:17.830 --> 00:47:19.750
Sorry, I'm looking through the piles because there's,

00:47:19.750 --> 00:47:21.120
y'all weren't a party before,

00:47:21.120 --> 00:47:23.207
so I'm trying to figure out why you're here.

00:47:23.207 --> 00:47:26.540
<v ->Daryl Morgan, Director of Minerals and Royalty</v>

00:47:26.540 --> 00:47:27.950
with the General Land Office,

00:47:27.950 --> 00:47:29.620
and the General Land Office is here

00:47:29.620 --> 00:47:34.010
to oppose the motion for rehearing on item number 12.

00:47:34.010 --> 00:47:36.707
This involves a State of Texas lease that we terminated

00:47:36.707 --> 00:47:38.350
back in July of 2016.

00:47:39.350 --> 00:47:44.350
<v Christi>Thank you for the information.</v>

00:47:45.074 --> 00:47:46.260
Okay.

00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:47.093
Go through it.

00:47:47.093 --> 00:47:47.926
So I think,

00:47:49.790 --> 00:47:51.720
I appreciate it and I know that that's not necessarily

00:47:51.720 --> 00:47:54.280
part of where we are, but that would be a part

00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:55.670
of the good-faith claim.

00:47:55.670 --> 00:47:57.491
<v Clay>Right, we have no evidence about</v>

00:47:57.491 --> 00:47:58.440
<v ->That's right.</v>

00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:02.550
<v Clay>The extension of the leases or anything like that.</v>

00:48:02.550 --> 00:48:03.383
<v ->And that wouldn't be part of it,</v>

00:48:03.383 --> 00:48:04.802
but I appreciate you bringing it up.

00:48:04.802 --> 00:48:09.802
So, I'm gonna move on 12 through 16 to deny the motions,

00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:13.153
on all four of the motions for rehearing.

00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:15.273
<v ->Second.</v>

00:48:15.273 --> 00:48:17.510
We have a motion and a second.

00:48:17.510 --> 00:48:20.610
All those in favor of the motion upon all,

00:48:20.610 --> 00:48:22.473
I'm gonna take one vote for all four,

00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:25.340
signify by saying "Aye."

00:48:25.340 --> 00:48:26.173
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:48:26.173 --> 00:48:27.423
<v ->Motion passes,</v>

00:48:27.423 --> 00:48:29.020
sorry, anybody opposed?

00:48:29.020 --> 00:48:30.510
<v ->No.</v>

00:48:30.510 --> 00:48:31.830
<v ->Motion passes, two to one.</v>

00:48:31.830 --> 00:48:32.663
Thank you for your work on this.

00:48:32.663 --> 00:48:33.670
<v Clay>Thank you very much.</v>
<v ->Yes, sir?</v>

00:48:33.670 --> 00:48:35.830
<v Man>If I might add, we'll provide separate orders.</v>

00:48:35.830 --> 00:48:37.070
<v ->That's fine. Thank you.</v>

00:48:37.070 --> 00:48:37.903
Okay.

00:48:37.903 --> 00:48:39.037
Thank you, Clay.

00:48:43.710 --> 00:48:44.820
<v ->Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners.</v>

00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:46.850
My name is Lynn Latombe, Administrative Law Judge

00:48:46.850 --> 00:48:48.470
with the Hearings Division.

00:48:48.470 --> 00:48:51.440
I'm here to present item 17 on the agenda,

00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.820
which is a P-5 motion for rehearing filed by

00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:56.993
WTXR Operating Texas Incorporated.

00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:01.308
On April 10th, 2018, a final order was entered by the Commission

00:49:01.308 --> 00:49:04.300
denying the renewal of the operator's P-5

00:49:04.300 --> 00:49:07.550
organization report because the operator had 10 wells

00:49:07.550 --> 00:49:10.600
not in compliance with Statewide Rule 15.

00:49:10.600 --> 00:49:12.570
In its timely filed motion for rehearing,

00:49:12.570 --> 00:49:14.880
the operator states that it's currently completing

00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:17.930
compliance with Rule 15 filings.

00:49:17.930 --> 00:49:21.080
At this time, 10 wells are still not in compliance.

00:49:21.080 --> 00:49:23.470
It is recommended that the motion be denied.

00:49:23.470 --> 00:49:25.610
The motion will be overruled by operation of law

00:49:25.610 --> 00:49:27.880
on July 19th, 2018.

00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.110
I'm available for any questions.

00:49:30.110 --> 00:49:32.220
<v ->Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

00:49:32.220 --> 00:49:34.340
I move we approve the examiner's recommendation.

00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:35.740
Is there a second?
<v ->Second.</v>

00:49:35.740 --> 00:49:36.820
<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

00:49:36.820 --> 00:49:38.225
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:49:38.225 --> 00:49:39.058
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:49:39.058 --> 00:49:41.103
<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:43.620
Number 18.

00:49:43.620 --> 00:49:44.550
How are you?

00:49:44.550 --> 00:49:45.383
<v Kristi>Good, how are you?</v>

00:49:45.383 --> 00:49:46.860
<v ->Fine, thanks.</v>

00:49:46.860 --> 00:49:48.560
<v ->Good morning, Chairman and Commissioners.</v>

00:49:48.560 --> 00:49:50.610
For the record, Kristi Reeve, Administrative Law Judge

00:49:50.610 --> 00:49:52.400
with the Hearings Division.

00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:54.210
item number 18 is the application

00:49:54.210 --> 00:49:57.200
of Tahiti Partners Energy Solutions Corporation

00:49:57.200 --> 00:49:59.460
for its unrestricted renewal of its P-5

00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:01.690
and to contest the staff determination

00:50:01.690 --> 00:50:03.590
that its form P-5 cannot be renewed

00:50:03.590 --> 00:50:06.170
due to non-compliance with the inactive well requirements

00:50:06.170 --> 00:50:07.553
of Statewide Rule 15.

00:50:08.610 --> 00:50:10.190
Since preparation of the agenda,

00:50:10.190 --> 00:50:13.079
Tahiti has achieved compliance with Rule 15

00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:16.670
for it's 2017 P-5 renewal.

00:50:16.670 --> 00:50:19.130
I've prepared a new order for you to sign

00:50:19.130 --> 00:50:20.900
which reflects this fact.

00:50:20.900 --> 00:50:23.030
I recommend this docket be dismissed as moot.

00:50:23.030 --> 00:50:24.970
I'm available for questions.

00:50:24.970 --> 00:50:27.430
<v ->Thank you, are there any questions?</v>

00:50:27.430 --> 00:50:29.870
Alright, I move we approve examiner's recommendations.

00:50:29.870 --> 00:50:31.470
Is there a second?
<v Christian>Second.</v>

00:50:31.470 --> 00:50:32.620
<v ->Second, Commissioner Christian.</v>

00:50:32.620 --> 00:50:33.939
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:50:33.939 --> 00:50:35.200
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:50:35.200 --> 00:50:36.360
<v ->Motion passes.</v>
<v Kristi>Thank you.</v>

00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:37.573
<v ->We like good news.</v>

00:50:38.430 --> 00:50:42.650
Alright, we are on to items 19 through 65.

00:50:42.650 --> 00:50:45.800
These are the Oil and Gas consent agenda items,

00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:47.960
and we're gonna pass.

00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.280
Staff wants to pass 45, is that correct?

00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.790
So, I'm gonna move that we approve 19 through 65

00:50:53.790 --> 00:50:56.090
with the exception of Number 45.

00:50:56.090 --> 00:50:57.850
Is there a second?
<v Ryan>Second.</v>

00:50:57.850 --> 00:50:59.080
<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

00:50:59.080 --> 00:51:00.480
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:01.313
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:51:01.313 --> 00:51:03.574
<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

00:51:03.574 --> 00:51:08.574
Rule 15, Inactive Well items, Items 66 through 79,

00:51:08.817 --> 00:51:11.890
73 is now in compliance, correct?

00:51:11.890 --> 00:51:14.810
Okay, I'm gonna move that we approve

00:51:14.810 --> 00:51:19.670
items 66 through 79 with the exception of 73.

00:51:19.670 --> 00:51:21.711
Is there a second?

00:51:21.711 --> 00:51:22.544
<v Ryan>Second.</v>

00:51:22.544 --> 00:51:24.470
<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

00:51:24.470 --> 00:51:26.060
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:51:26.060 --> 00:51:26.893
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:51:26.893 --> 00:51:28.570
<v ->Motion passes, those items are approved.</v>

00:51:30.250 --> 00:51:34.030
Master Default orders, items 80 through 88,

00:51:34.030 --> 00:51:36.670
I'm gonna move we approve those, 80 through 88.

00:51:36.670 --> 00:51:38.043
Is there a second?

00:51:38.043 --> 00:51:38.876
<v Ryan>Second.</v>

00:51:38.876 --> 00:51:39.709
<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

00:51:39.709 --> 00:51:41.106
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:51:41.106 --> 00:51:41.939
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:51:41.939 --> 00:51:44.280
<v ->Motion passes, those items are approved.</v>

00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:45.800
And Agreed Enforcement orders,

00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:48.390
there are 223 Agreed Enforcement orders.

00:51:48.390 --> 00:51:51.870
I move that we approve items 89 through 311.

00:51:51.870 --> 00:51:53.083
Is there a second?

00:51:53.083 --> 00:51:53.916
<v Christian>Second.</v>

00:51:53.916 --> 00:51:54.810
<v ->Second, Commissioner Christian.</v>

00:51:54.810 --> 00:51:56.294
All those in favor say "Aye."

00:51:56.294 --> 00:51:57.170
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:51:57.170 --> 00:51:58.890
<v ->Motion passes, those items are approved.</v>

00:51:58.890 --> 00:52:00.800
That concludes the Hearing section matters,

00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.564
and we'll now take up our Administrative Agenda.

00:52:03.564 --> 00:52:04.397
Morning.

00:52:04.397 --> 00:52:06.350
<v ->Good morning, Chairman, Commissioners.</v>

00:52:06.350 --> 00:52:07.973
Wei Wang, Executive Director.

00:52:09.030 --> 00:52:10.340
I have good news today.

00:52:10.340 --> 00:52:12.750
As of last Friday, we have already met

00:52:12.750 --> 00:52:15.030
our well-plugging goal for the year, 979,

00:52:15.030 --> 00:52:19.740
and we're continuing to plug more wells,

00:52:19.740 --> 00:52:23.240
and I do wanna mention that the average plugging cost

00:52:23.240 --> 00:52:26.760
is going up compared to the last couple of years.

00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:28.963
I just wanna point that out.

00:52:29.950 --> 00:52:31.894
That concludes my report for today and I'm available

00:52:31.894 --> 00:52:32.727
for questions.

00:52:32.727 --> 00:52:34.980
<v ->And I'm making the assumption because we're plugging</v>

00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:37.835
deeper wells and other things, or is it just the cost

00:52:37.835 --> 00:52:40.250
in the industry?
<v ->The cost of contractors</v>

00:52:40.250 --> 00:52:42.250
and also the fact that we're plugging more,

00:52:42.250 --> 00:52:45.704
so yeah, some of the deeper wells, you know,

00:52:45.704 --> 00:52:47.060
the depths of the wells.

00:52:47.060 --> 00:52:48.730
<v Christi>Okay, great, thank you, Wei.</v>

00:52:48.730 --> 00:52:50.734
Are there any questions for Wei this morning?

00:52:50.734 --> 00:52:52.080
Alright.

00:52:52.080 --> 00:52:53.313
Item 313.

00:52:54.470 --> 00:52:55.303
Morning.

00:53:01.830 --> 00:53:02.663
<v ->Good morning.</v>

00:53:04.750 --> 00:53:07.710
Vanessa Burgess, Assistant General Council for the record.

00:53:07.710 --> 00:53:10.760
We have nothing to report on item 313.

00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:13.670
It is my understanding that we have someone here

00:53:13.670 --> 00:53:15.560
who would like to give some public comment,

00:53:15.560 --> 00:53:17.130
and we think that that would be more appropriate

00:53:17.130 --> 00:53:19.553
that it was reserved under item 316,

00:53:21.120 --> 00:53:24.250
so I'll go ahead and move on to item 314,

00:53:24.250 --> 00:53:26.320
which pertains to Commissioner approval

00:53:26.320 --> 00:53:28.520
of certain contracts pursuant to the Commission's

00:53:28.520 --> 00:53:33.253
delegation of authority, and also under Section 2261.254

00:53:34.540 --> 00:53:36.840
of the Texas Government Code.

00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:38.900
The Commission's internal delegation of authority

00:53:38.900 --> 00:53:40.950
requires Commissioner approval of contracts

00:53:40.950 --> 00:53:45.710
and associated amendments greater than or equal to $500,000.

00:53:45.710 --> 00:53:49.623
Section 2261.254 of the Texas Government Code

00:53:49.623 --> 00:53:52.900
requires approval of contracts and associated amendments

00:53:52.900 --> 00:53:54.593
greater than one million dollars.

00:53:55.580 --> 00:53:57.620
At issue today are two solicitations

00:53:57.620 --> 00:54:01.010
with projected award amounts over one million dollars.

00:54:01.010 --> 00:54:04.100
One, solicitation is out of the Kilgore district office

00:54:04.100 --> 00:54:06.560
for future well-plugging services,

00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:09.030
and the other consists of an IT solicitation

00:54:09.030 --> 00:54:11.850
for agency inspection and enforcement tracking

00:54:11.850 --> 00:54:13.053
and reporting system.

00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:15.910
Approval of these items today will ensure

00:54:15.910 --> 00:54:18.570
agency operations remain on schedule

00:54:18.570 --> 00:54:20.680
and that the necessary approvals will be in place

00:54:20.680 --> 00:54:24.190
pursuant to the Commission's delegation and state law.

00:54:24.190 --> 00:54:25.650
A summary of these agreements,

00:54:25.650 --> 00:54:26.483
I'm sorry,

00:54:26.483 --> 00:54:29.020
a summary of these solicitations, including solicitation

00:54:29.020 --> 00:54:32.020
number and amount, were included in your notebooks.

00:54:32.020 --> 00:54:34.360
Staff asks the Commission approve these agreements

00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.110
and solicitation pursuant to the Commission's

00:54:37.110 --> 00:54:40.200
delegation of authority and state law. Thanks.

00:54:40.200 --> 00:54:41.846
<v Christi>Are there any questions?</v>

00:54:41.846 --> 00:54:42.679
<v Christian>Nope.</v>

00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:44.610
<v Christi>I move we approve the staff's recommendation.</v>

00:54:44.610 --> 00:54:46.080
Is there a second?
<v Ryan>Second.</v>

00:54:46.080 --> 00:54:47.180
<v ->Second, Commissioner Sitton.</v>

00:54:47.180 --> 00:54:48.314
All in favor say "Aye."

00:54:48.314 --> 00:54:49.147
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:54:49.147 --> 00:54:50.250
<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

00:54:50.250 --> 00:54:52.390
Thanks.
<v Vanessa>Thank you.</v>

00:54:52.390 --> 00:54:54.033
<v ->Alright, item 315.</v>

00:54:56.725 --> 00:54:58.010
Good morning.

00:54:58.010 --> 00:54:59.927
<v Jason>Good morning.</v>

00:55:00.933 --> 00:55:02.960
Good morning, Chairman, Commissioners.

00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:04.790
For the record, my name is Jason Clark,

00:55:04.790 --> 00:55:06.730
Assistant Director of Administrative Compliance,

00:55:06.730 --> 00:55:08.480
Oil & Gas Division.

00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:09.620
Today, we bring for your approval

00:55:09.620 --> 00:55:12.117
proposed revisions to the Oil Well Status Report,

00:55:12.117 --> 00:55:16.450
the form W-10, and the associated form W-10 Instructions.

00:55:16.450 --> 00:55:18.060
This request is being generated as part

00:55:18.060 --> 00:55:19.770
of the Oil Field Relief Initiative

00:55:19.770 --> 00:55:21.740
in conjunction with the proposed rule amendments

00:55:21.740 --> 00:55:24.570
to Statewide Rules 52 and 53.

00:55:24.570 --> 00:55:27.110
Staff is seeking permission to publish the revised forms

00:55:27.110 --> 00:55:29.780
on the Commission's website, gather public comment,

00:55:29.780 --> 00:55:31.460
then report back any comments received

00:55:31.460 --> 00:55:35.090
and any action staff has taken to satisfy those comments.

00:55:35.090 --> 00:55:37.020
The shaded portions of the forms

00:55:37.020 --> 00:55:38.850
and instructions in your notebook

00:55:38.850 --> 00:55:40.510
represent the proposed revisions.

00:55:40.510 --> 00:55:41.910
I'm available for questions.

00:55:43.210 --> 00:55:44.043
<v ->Thank you, Jason.</v>

00:55:44.043 --> 00:55:46.280
I'm assuming if we get any different comments

00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:49.000
on our W-10 rule that those will be reflected

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:50.970
at some point if we need to make a different change,

00:55:50.970 --> 00:55:51.803
correct?
<v Jason>Yes, Commissioner.</v>

00:55:51.803 --> 00:55:52.680
<v ->Great, alright.</v>

00:55:52.680 --> 00:55:55.173
Are there any other questions?

00:55:56.270 --> 00:55:58.200
I move we approve the staff's recommendation.

00:55:58.200 --> 00:55:59.550
Is there a second?
<v Christian>Second.</v>

00:55:59.550 --> 00:56:00.830
<v ->Second, Commissioner Christian.</v>

00:56:00.830 --> 00:56:01.963
All in favor say "Aye."

00:56:01.963 --> 00:56:02.796
<v All>Aye.</v>

00:56:02.796 --> 00:56:03.870
<v ->Motion passes, items approved.</v>

00:56:03.870 --> 00:56:05.530
Thank you very much.

00:56:05.530 --> 00:56:08.160
Alright, we are at item 316,

00:56:08.160 --> 00:56:10.540
which is our public participation item.

00:56:10.540 --> 00:56:12.870
We do have a gentleman, Mr. Morgan,

00:56:12.870 --> 00:56:15.390
I don't know where he is.

00:56:15.390 --> 00:56:16.940
Oh, yes sir, if you'll come up.

00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:19.923
He's got a comment,

00:56:21.150 --> 00:56:24.020
he's got some comments about our Draft Railroad Commission

00:56:24.020 --> 00:56:27.386
Strategic Plan that he has given us written comments.

00:56:27.386 --> 00:56:28.768
We'll give you about three minutes

00:56:28.768 --> 00:56:30.470
if you will
<v Morgan>Thank you.</v>

00:56:30.470 --> 00:56:32.446
<v ->Summarize what you've given us, yes sir.</v>

00:56:32.446 --> 00:56:34.352
And if you'll state your name for the record, yes sir.

00:56:34.352 --> 00:56:36.166
<v ->Professional engineer in Texas.</v>

00:56:36.166 --> 00:56:38.360
I've been performing engineering design

00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:41.120
and construction and operational facilities

00:56:41.120 --> 00:56:42.650
for 50 years,

00:56:42.650 --> 00:56:44.133
and I've been studying this noise issue

00:56:44.133 --> 00:56:47.603
that I want to be addressed for about 10 years.

00:56:49.715 --> 00:56:52.410
A strategic plan is supposed to, according to,

00:56:52.410 --> 00:56:53.823
probably a law, 1818,

00:56:56.910 --> 00:57:01.260
control issues around oil and gas facilities

00:57:01.260 --> 00:57:03.773
to protect the public health and the environment,

00:57:04.750 --> 00:57:08.590
and in the strategic plan, they address gas wells

00:57:08.590 --> 00:57:09.540
and oil wells,

00:57:09.540 --> 00:57:12.663
not even, it doesn't anything about gas, it says oil wells,

00:57:13.860 --> 00:57:18.070
and they do not address the compressor stations,

00:57:18.070 --> 00:57:21.230
and compressor stations are the main component

00:57:21.230 --> 00:57:22.620
of oil and gas facilities

00:57:22.620 --> 00:57:25.190
that generates low-frequency noise,

00:57:25.190 --> 00:57:27.260
and the main reason for us being here today,

00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:32.260
the need to have this added to the rules

00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:35.860
is that we don't have these state laws

00:57:35.860 --> 00:57:37.783
to protect us from noise,

00:57:39.170 --> 00:57:42.800
and the EPA washed their hands of it in 1982.

00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:45.460
The problem is that we have people dying

00:57:45.460 --> 00:57:48.100
because of low-frequency noise.

00:57:48.100 --> 00:57:50.460
Noise below 500 cycles per second

00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:52.563
down to about 25 cycles per second.

00:57:53.530 --> 00:57:56.960
We've had, in Freestone County, four people die

00:57:56.960 --> 00:57:58.750
from the noise issue.

00:57:58.750 --> 00:58:02.250
I have taken noise readings with a $3,000 noise meter

00:58:02.250 --> 00:58:05.040
at their home after they died

00:58:05.040 --> 00:58:07.930
or while they were in the hospital and then died,

00:58:07.930 --> 00:58:11.188
of extremely low-frequency from intensity,

00:58:11.188 --> 00:58:16.188
high intensity of 85 decibels to 101 decibels,

00:58:16.450 --> 00:58:19.040
and I've been run out of my home practically every day

00:58:19.040 --> 00:58:21.270
for the past 10 years.

00:58:21.270 --> 00:58:24.270
I have a $350,000 home I can't really live in.

00:58:24.270 --> 00:58:26.023
I get to use it a few hours a day.

00:58:27.530 --> 00:58:32.530
So, there's a great need to address the compressor stations

00:58:33.590 --> 00:58:34.913
in our strategic plan.

00:58:36.170 --> 00:58:39.170
We have babies having brain damage while they're in the womb

00:58:40.030 --> 00:58:42.281
and we have older people having dementia,

00:58:42.281 --> 00:58:44.663
I mean it's a womb-to-tomb issue.

00:58:44.663 --> 00:58:47.460
It's not just a hearing issue.

00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:49.600
It's a whole body pathology,

00:58:49.600 --> 00:58:52.240
according to the people in Lisbon, Portugal,

00:58:52.240 --> 00:58:54.670
who have studied this stuff for 45 years,

00:58:54.670 --> 00:58:56.420
and I've got lots of data from them

00:58:57.260 --> 00:58:59.833
to support my contentions.

00:59:01.380 --> 00:59:04.100
And Freestone County, if you look at the very last page,

00:59:04.100 --> 00:59:06.073
there's a map showing Freestone County,

00:59:07.040 --> 00:59:11.380
and that map shows, and it's different colors,

00:59:11.380 --> 00:59:13.710
those little dots on there, yellow dots, green dots,

00:59:13.710 --> 00:59:14.543
red dots.

00:59:14.543 --> 00:59:17.340
That's different corporations' compressor stations'

00:59:17.340 --> 00:59:18.860
locations.

00:59:18.860 --> 00:59:23.860
There's 130 gas compressor stations in Freestone County

00:59:24.150 --> 00:59:27.970
supporting 3,058 gas wells.

00:59:27.970 --> 00:59:32.940
Freestone County is number seven in number of counties,

00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:36.090
number seven in the state for gas wells,

00:59:36.090 --> 00:59:39.210
and so these compressor stations are all over the place.

00:59:39.210 --> 00:59:42.190
There's no safe place in Freestone County,

00:59:42.190 --> 00:59:43.770
depending on time of day.

00:59:43.770 --> 00:59:46.370
They might crank them up late at night.

00:59:46.370 --> 00:59:48.710
They may have them cranked up at four or five o'clock

00:59:48.710 --> 00:59:51.273
in the morning, but I have to get up and run,

00:59:52.229 --> 00:59:54.380
because I can't, my head can't take that.

00:59:54.380 --> 00:59:58.150
My blood pressure's been as high as 212 over 112.

00:59:58.150 --> 00:59:59.830
That's immediate stroke stage.

00:59:59.830 --> 01:00:02.420
You have to get up and leave, get out of the area

01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:04.000
to protect yourself,

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:05.890
and I've also found there's other stuff

01:00:05.890 --> 01:00:07.830
even from the President's Black Book

01:00:07.830 --> 01:00:09.190
that talked about some stuff

01:00:09.190 --> 01:00:11.530
that you could do to your home to help protect yourself,

01:00:11.530 --> 01:00:12.520
and I have done that.

01:00:12.520 --> 01:00:15.200
I've spent thousands of dollars trying to make my

01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:19.970
master bedroom a safe room, and it'll become that.

01:00:19.970 --> 01:00:24.910
So, it's a strategic issue that's got to be addressed.

01:00:24.910 --> 01:00:27.490
It's got be in the strategic plan.

01:00:27.490 --> 01:00:31.003
There's these 27 counties that have all this,

01:00:31.914 --> 01:00:32.747
all these issues.

01:00:32.747 --> 01:00:34.590
I've got a list of them here.

01:00:34.590 --> 01:00:35.840
Let me see what they did.

01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:40.630
Okay, about page eight.

01:00:40.630 --> 01:00:42.530
I don't have a number, just beyond the

01:00:45.150 --> 01:00:47.807
House Bill 1818, and there's a list here that says,

01:00:47.807 --> 01:00:51.010
"Texas counties with a thousand or more gas wells."

01:00:51.010 --> 01:00:54.850
There's 27 counties with a thousand or more gas wells.

01:00:54.850 --> 01:00:57.270
We happen to have 3,058.

01:00:57.270 --> 01:01:00.520
Fort Worth in Tarrant County has 4,200,

01:01:00.520 --> 01:01:02.460
and they have lots of babies over there

01:01:02.460 --> 01:01:05.400
being born early and having brain damage

01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.100
while they're still in the womb.

01:01:07.100 --> 01:01:09.700
These are atrocities against American citizens.

01:01:09.700 --> 01:01:13.280
We have to address this in our strategic plan,

01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:18.220
so these 27 counties here should be addressed first

01:01:18.220 --> 01:01:19.930
in the strategic plan.

01:01:19.930 --> 01:01:22.200
These are the ones we need to address

01:01:22.200 --> 01:01:24.210
that are harming our people so bad,

01:01:24.210 --> 01:01:26.700
and say, "Hey, you've got to have,

01:01:26.700 --> 01:01:28.700
determine," and I've got rules here

01:01:28.700 --> 01:01:32.680
that I would like to have included in the strategic plan

01:01:32.680 --> 01:01:35.507
to say "these are the rules you need to use when you go out

01:01:35.507 --> 01:01:38.350
"and check these facilities,

01:01:38.350 --> 01:01:40.100
"with a particular type of noise meter

01:01:40.100 --> 01:01:41.660
"with certain capabilities.

01:01:41.660 --> 01:01:43.060
"You're looking for this."

01:01:43.060 --> 01:01:44.360
It's all in there.

01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:49.240
And test these compressor stations, each one of them

01:01:49.240 --> 01:01:51.410
in these 27 counties.

01:01:51.410 --> 01:01:56.060
It's gonna take some time, but it is a major health issue

01:01:56.060 --> 01:01:57.103
for Texas.

01:01:58.152 --> 01:01:58.985
<v Christi>Thank you.</v>

01:01:58.985 --> 01:02:03.985
<v ->So I request you have these issues included</v>

01:02:04.610 --> 01:02:08.560
in the strategic plan to protect our citizens.

01:02:08.560 --> 01:02:09.843
<v Christi>Thank you very much for being here.</v>

01:02:09.843 --> 01:02:10.690
<v Ryan>I have one question.</v>

01:02:10.690 --> 01:02:11.820
<v ->Of course, sorry.</v>

01:02:11.820 --> 01:02:15.990
<v Ryan>Mr. Morgan, obviously we all are concerned</v>

01:02:15.990 --> 01:02:18.110
when anybody's suffering in any capacity,

01:02:18.110 --> 01:02:19.210
whether it's a health issue,

01:02:19.210 --> 01:02:21.060
it's a personal property issue.

01:02:21.060 --> 01:02:22.860
We take those things very seriously.

01:02:23.810 --> 01:02:27.840
You've made a lot of claims today about the impacts of noise

01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:31.690
on health on babies, on lifespan.

01:02:31.690 --> 01:02:34.350
Are there any scientific studies from here

01:02:34.350 --> 01:02:35.530
in the United States?
<v Morgan>Yes, sir.</v>

01:02:35.530 --> 01:02:36.900
<v ->An institution we'd be aware of?</v>

01:02:36.900 --> 01:02:38.800
What institution conducted that study?

01:02:39.650 --> 01:02:42.950
<v ->The Bloomberg Medical Center at the University of Maryland</v>

01:02:42.950 --> 01:02:44.650
has did a lengthy study,

01:02:44.650 --> 01:02:47.010
I'm sorry I didn't attach it to this,

01:02:47.010 --> 01:02:48.670
a lengthy study saying that wherever

01:02:48.670 --> 01:02:50.414
there's oil and gas operations,

01:02:50.414 --> 01:02:54.968
they have damage to babies while they're still in the womb,

01:02:54.968 --> 01:02:57.340
and early life.
<v Ryan>You said it was the</v>

01:02:57.340 --> 01:02:59.180
<v ->Bloomberg Medical Center,</v>

01:02:59.180 --> 01:03:02.763
and I'll email you a copy of that if I can get your email.

01:03:04.220 --> 01:03:05.053
I'll email it to all of you.

01:03:05.053 --> 01:03:06.840
<v Ryan>Bloomberg Medical Center, where?</v>

01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:07.930
<v ->The Bloomberg Medical Center</v>

01:03:07.930 --> 01:03:09.430
at the University of Maryland.

01:03:13.460 --> 01:03:18.460
And I addressed that to the Railroad Commission review folks

01:03:19.430 --> 01:03:22.160
and they understood.

01:03:22.160 --> 01:03:22.993
<v Ryan>I'll look that up.</v>

01:03:22.993 --> 01:03:23.831
Thank you, Mr. Morgan.

01:03:23.831 --> 01:03:24.664
<v ->Thank you.</v>
<v Christi>Thank you</v>

01:03:24.664 --> 01:03:25.510
very much for being here.

01:03:25.510 --> 01:03:26.560
<v ->Thank you.</v>

01:03:26.560 --> 01:03:27.810
<v ->Okay.</v>

01:03:27.810 --> 01:03:31.420
Item 317 is our Executive Session item,

01:03:31.420 --> 01:03:33.220
which we won't be going into today.

01:03:33.220 --> 01:03:35.670
Are there any other duly posted matters

01:03:35.670 --> 01:03:37.740
to be brought before the Commission at this time?

01:03:37.740 --> 01:03:39.640
Hearing none, this meeting of the Railroad Commission

01:03:39.640 --> 01:03:40.800
is adjourned.
<v ->Madam Chairman,</v>

01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:41.633
<v ->Oh, sorry.</v>

01:03:41.633 --> 01:03:43.270
<v ->Just to make</v>
<v ->I was going too fast.</v>

01:03:43.270 --> 01:03:44.128
<v ->That's right.</v>

01:03:44.128 --> 01:03:45.863
Can I make just a personal commentary here?

01:03:45.863 --> 01:03:46.696
<v ->Sure.</v>

01:03:46.696 --> 01:03:49.230
Number one, I think, I'm presumptively on the part

01:03:49.230 --> 01:03:51.457
of the Railroad Commission, our staff,

01:03:51.457 --> 01:03:53.526
and our employees all across state extending

01:03:53.526 --> 01:03:56.920
our condolences to the families in Santa Fe, Texas,

01:03:56.920 --> 01:03:58.941
and our concerns to them.

01:03:58.941 --> 01:04:02.330
We are concerned when that happens to folks in Texas,

01:04:02.330 --> 01:04:05.170
so I hope I can presumptively extend our condolences

01:04:05.170 --> 01:04:07.390
for all of the staff across the state

01:04:07.390 --> 01:04:09.030
of the Texas Railroad Commission

01:04:09.030 --> 01:04:10.360
for that situation.

01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:12.320
And then secondly, I'd like to make a report

01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:14.647
I think was quite revealing to me

01:04:14.647 --> 01:04:15.700
on a trip out

01:04:15.700 --> 01:04:17.560
to the American Legislative Exchange conferences.

01:04:17.560 --> 01:04:20.440
They were to go to Israel a couple weeks back

01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:24.730
back whenever, the week prior to the moving of the embassy,

01:04:24.730 --> 01:04:28.560
the week that we were there, but more importantly,

01:04:28.560 --> 01:04:31.420
it was very revealed to me that for the past 70 years,

01:04:31.420 --> 01:04:33.640
which is the length of time for the nation of Israel

01:04:33.640 --> 01:04:36.730
established, that the United States has never been able,

01:04:36.730 --> 01:04:41.070
or has chosen not to, because of our dependence on the oil

01:04:41.070 --> 01:04:44.490
in the Middle East, absolutely go alongside Israel

01:04:44.490 --> 01:04:46.970
in the confrontation of any kind.

01:04:46.970 --> 01:04:50.010
We have England, France, many times NATO,

01:04:50.010 --> 01:04:52.710
but we never have actually done it,

01:04:52.710 --> 01:04:55.360
not that we want to or I'm insinuating we should,

01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:58.310
but the reason was that we were so dependent

01:04:58.310 --> 01:05:00.920
upon that Mideast oil, we did not want to antagonize

01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:03.520
the area against the United States.

01:05:03.520 --> 01:05:07.180
We had dinner with the United States Ambassador to Israel,

01:05:07.180 --> 01:05:09.520
and for the first time in decades,

01:05:09.520 --> 01:05:11.210
we're about to approach, if not already,

01:05:11.210 --> 01:05:14.090
energy security in the United States,

01:05:14.090 --> 01:05:16.210
largely because of the tremendous find

01:05:16.210 --> 01:05:19.123
that we've had in the field out in the Permian Basin,

01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:23.930
and I asked the ambassador, and just one of the folks

01:05:23.930 --> 01:05:26.060
in the industry and the folks that are involved

01:05:26.060 --> 01:05:28.880
to understand what a part Texas plays in this.

01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:30.557
I asked the ambassador, I said,

01:05:30.557 --> 01:05:34.480
"In the negotiation for moving the capital and in Israel,

01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:37.320
has the discovery of oil in west Texas

01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:38.930
made any significant contribution

01:05:38.930 --> 01:05:40.120
because of energy security?"

01:05:40.120 --> 01:05:42.836
His quoted response to me,

01:05:42.836 --> 01:05:45.740
"All the difference in the world,"

01:05:45.740 --> 01:05:48.040
and he said, "Not only in Israel,

01:05:48.040 --> 01:05:50.890
but in all of our negotiations worldwide."

01:05:50.890 --> 01:05:53.200
We now have the security to be able to negotiate

01:05:53.200 --> 01:05:55.930
we've never had in the past because of this security.

01:05:55.930 --> 01:05:57.760
So I just thought it was important for the Commission,

01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:00.020
for the industries, for folks to understand

01:06:00.020 --> 01:06:02.830
how significant this time in history is,

01:06:02.830 --> 01:06:04.680
not only to us, but the entire world.

01:06:05.720 --> 01:06:06.553
<v ->Thank you.</v>

01:06:07.550 --> 01:06:09.000
Thank you, thanks.

01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:11.120
It looks like y'all had an interesting trip.

01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:12.674
<v ->It was interesting.</v>

01:06:12.674 --> 01:06:14.373
<v ->And thank you for the condolence piece.</v>

01:06:14.373 --> 01:06:16.150
I appreciate you bringing that up.

01:06:16.150 --> 01:06:17.600
Anything else?

01:06:17.600 --> 01:06:18.690
Alright, hearing none,

01:06:18.690 --> 01:06:20.280
this meeting of the Railroad Commission is adjourned.

01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:21.113
Thank you.