WEBVTT 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:17.361 Members, I'd like to call the meeting to order. 00:00:17.361 --> 00:00:19.221 And Miss Cargill, I believe you're up 00:00:19.221 --> 00:00:22.804 to introduce our student performance today. 00:00:40.153 --> 00:00:42.181 Good morning. 00:00:42.181 --> 00:00:46.578 So while our early risers are getting in place, 00:00:46.578 --> 00:00:48.300 think they've been up a while, 00:00:48.300 --> 00:00:50.565 I'd like to tell you just a little bit about this group. 00:00:50.565 --> 00:00:54.310 This is the A&M Consolidated High School Chorale, 00:00:54.310 --> 00:00:56.809 and this is a very elite choir. 00:00:56.809 --> 00:01:00.243 Members, on your desk you have this little gray program, 00:01:00.243 --> 00:01:02.368 and it gives you some background about the choir. 00:01:02.368 --> 00:01:04.378 They have received Outstanding Choir awards 00:01:04.378 --> 00:01:07.481 in festivals in Texas and five other states. 00:01:07.481 --> 00:01:10.691 They've performed at the Texas Music Educators Conference, 00:01:10.691 --> 00:01:14.370 St. Peters in Rome, Salzburg Cathedral. 00:01:14.370 --> 00:01:17.192 Yeah, this sounds like my kind of choir, I love this. 00:01:17.192 --> 00:01:20.875 St. John's Cathedral, and even Carnegie Hall. 00:01:20.875 --> 00:01:24.759 Their UIL performances have earned them 00:01:24.759 --> 00:01:26.771 consistent sweepstakes awards, 00:01:26.771 --> 00:01:29.279 and they've been in the International Champion Choir Award 00:01:29.279 --> 00:01:34.207 in Washington DC, and International Award for Acapella 00:01:34.207 --> 00:01:35.471 in New York City. 00:01:35.471 --> 00:01:38.123 So we are so excited that they are here. 00:01:38.123 --> 00:01:40.255 Mr. Travis Angel is the director here, 00:01:40.255 --> 00:01:42.787 accompanied by Ed Cane. 00:01:42.787 --> 00:01:45.882 And Gwen Elder, the principal, where'd she go? 00:01:45.882 --> 00:01:48.833 If you'll stand up to be recognized, Miss Elder? 00:01:48.833 --> 00:01:50.969 Oh, right here, back behind me! 00:01:50.969 --> 00:01:52.134 Looking over there. 00:01:52.134 --> 00:01:54.073 So thank you so much for being here. 00:01:54.073 --> 00:01:57.740 We look forward to hearing you this morning. 00:02:02.921 --> 00:02:06.754 (singing in foreign language) 00:04:02.656 --> 00:04:04.139 (audience applauds) 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:05.139 Thank you. 00:04:07.779 --> 00:04:10.862 (gentle piano music) 00:04:21.817 --> 00:04:25.650 (singing in foreign language) 00:07:37.604 --> 00:07:40.604 (audience applauds) 00:07:46.317 --> 00:07:49.009 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:07:49.009 --> 00:07:52.021 ♪ Troubles of the world, troubles of the world ♪ 00:07:52.021 --> 00:07:54.714 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:07:54.714 --> 00:07:57.787 ♪ Goin' home to live with God ♪ 00:07:57.787 --> 00:08:00.739 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:00.739 --> 00:08:03.644 ♪ Troubles of the world, troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:03.644 --> 00:08:06.275 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:06.275 --> 00:08:09.506 ♪ Goin' home to live with God ♪ 00:08:09.506 --> 00:08:12.545 ♪ I want to meet my mother ♪ 00:08:12.545 --> 00:08:15.630 ♪ I want to meet my mother ♪ 00:08:15.630 --> 00:08:18.493 ♪ I want to meet my mother ♪ 00:08:18.493 --> 00:08:21.657 ♪ I'm goin' to live with God ♪ 00:08:21.657 --> 00:08:24.597 ♪ I want to meet my mother ♪ 00:08:24.597 --> 00:08:27.564 ♪ I want to meet my mother ♪ 00:08:27.564 --> 00:08:30.606 ♪ I want to meet my mother ♪ 00:08:30.606 --> 00:08:33.703 ♪ I'm goin' to live with God ♪ 00:08:33.703 --> 00:08:36.470 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:36.470 --> 00:08:39.400 ♪ Troubles of the world, troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:42.014 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:42.014 --> 00:08:45.187 ♪ Goin' home to live with God ♪ 00:08:45.187 --> 00:08:47.983 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:47.983 --> 00:08:50.891 ♪ Troubles of the world, troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:50.891 --> 00:08:53.440 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:56.650 ♪ Goin' home to live with God ♪ 00:08:56.650 --> 00:08:59.634 ♪ No more weeping and a-wailing ♪ 00:08:59.634 --> 00:09:02.641 ♪ No more weeping and a-wailing ♪ 00:09:02.641 --> 00:09:05.623 ♪ No more weeping and a-wailing ♪ 00:09:05.623 --> 00:09:08.698 ♪ I'm goin' to live with God ♪ 00:09:08.698 --> 00:09:11.671 ♪ No more weeping and a-wailing ♪ 00:09:11.671 --> 00:09:14.671 ♪ No more weeping and a-wailing ♪ 00:09:14.671 --> 00:09:18.671 ♪ No more weeping and a-wailing ♪ 00:09:20.461 --> 00:09:23.294 ♪ No more weeping ♪ 00:09:24.408 --> 00:09:26.801 ♪ No more wailing ♪ 00:09:26.801 --> 00:09:29.634 ♪ No more wailing ♪ 00:09:35.193 --> 00:09:38.026 ♪ No more weeping ♪ 00:09:41.971 --> 00:09:44.335 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:09:44.335 --> 00:09:47.297 ♪ Troubles of the world, troubles of the world ♪ 00:09:47.297 --> 00:09:49.895 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:09:49.895 --> 00:09:53.189 ♪ Goin' home to live with God ♪ 00:09:53.189 --> 00:09:56.044 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:09:56.044 --> 00:09:58.942 ♪ Troubles of the world, troubles of the world ♪ 00:09:58.942 --> 00:10:01.510 ♪ Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world ♪ 00:10:01.510 --> 00:10:04.809 ♪ Goin' home to live with God ♪ 00:10:04.809 --> 00:10:07.775 ♪ I want to meet my Jesus ♪ 00:10:07.775 --> 00:10:10.744 ♪ I want to meet my Jesus ♪ 00:10:10.744 --> 00:10:13.762 ♪ I want to meet my Jesus ♪ 00:10:13.762 --> 00:10:16.948 ♪ I'm goin' to live with God ♪ 00:10:16.948 --> 00:10:19.807 ♪ I want to meet my Jesus ♪ 00:10:19.807 --> 00:10:22.852 ♪ I want to meet my Jesus ♪ 00:10:22.852 --> 00:10:25.915 ♪ I want to meet my Jesus ♪ 00:10:25.915 --> 00:10:28.712 ♪ Goin' to live with God ♪ 00:10:28.712 --> 00:10:33.026 ♪ I'm goin' to live with God ♪ 00:10:33.026 --> 00:10:36.526 ♪ I want to live with God ♪ 00:10:42.943 --> 00:10:45.943 (audience applauds) 00:10:53.868 --> 00:10:58.035 ♪ Open thou mine eyes and I shall see ♪ 00:10:59.881 --> 00:11:04.048 ♪ Incline my heart and I shall desire ♪ 00:11:06.532 --> 00:11:10.699 ♪ Order my steps and I shall walk ♪ 00:11:13.768 --> 00:11:17.935 ♪ In the ways of thy commandments ♪ 00:11:21.747 --> 00:11:25.914 ♪ Open thou mine eyes and I shall see ♪ 00:11:28.691 --> 00:11:32.858 ♪ Incline my heart and I shall desire ♪ 00:11:35.026 --> 00:11:39.193 ♪ Order my steps and I shall walk ♪ 00:11:42.556 --> 00:11:46.723 ♪ In the ways of thy commandments ♪ 00:11:50.609 --> 00:11:54.776 ♪ O Lord God, be thou to me a God ♪ 00:11:56.474 --> 00:12:00.641 ♪ And beside thee let there be none else ♪ 00:12:01.862 --> 00:12:06.029 ♪ No other, naught else with thee ♪ 00:12:07.164 --> 00:12:11.331 ♪ Vouchsafe to me to worship thee and serve thee ♪ 00:12:13.976 --> 00:12:17.976 ♪ According to thy commandments ♪ 00:12:19.913 --> 00:12:22.809 ♪ In truth of spirit ♪ 00:12:22.809 --> 00:12:26.059 ♪ In reverence of body ♪ 00:12:27.974 --> 00:12:30.976 ♪ In blessings of lips ♪ 00:12:30.976 --> 00:12:34.559 ♪ In private and in public ♪ 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:42.507 ♪ Open thou mine eyes and I shall see ♪ 00:12:44.815 --> 00:12:48.982 ♪ Incline my heart and I shall desire ♪ 00:12:51.329 --> 00:12:55.496 ♪ Order my steps and I shall walk ♪ 00:12:57.791 --> 00:13:01.958 ♪ In the ways of thy commandments ♪ 00:13:12.708 --> 00:13:15.708 (audience applauds) 00:13:20.941 --> 00:13:23.524 (upbeat music) 00:13:32.616 --> 00:13:35.132 ♪ Who's the lovely dolly with the beautiful eyes ♪ 00:13:35.132 --> 00:13:37.945 ♪ What a pair of lips, I'd like to try them for size ♪ 00:13:37.945 --> 00:13:40.878 ♪ I'll just tell her, "Baby, won't you swing it with me" ♪ 00:13:40.878 --> 00:13:43.519 ♪ Hope she tells me maybe, what a wing it will be ♪ 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:46.254 ♪ So, I said politely "Darlin' may I intrude" ♪ 00:13:46.254 --> 00:13:49.659 ♪ She said "Don't keep me waitin' when I'm in the mood" ♪ 00:13:49.659 --> 00:13:52.516 ♪ First he held me lightly and we started to dance ♪ 00:13:52.516 --> 00:13:55.240 ♪ Then he held me tightly what a dreamy romance ♪ 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.010 ♪ And he said "Hey, baby, it's a quarter to three ♪ 00:13:58.010 --> 00:14:00.689 ♪ "There's a mess of moonlight, won't cha share it with me" ♪ 00:14:00.689 --> 00:14:03.549 ♪ Then I answered "Mister, don't cha know that it's rude ♪ 00:14:03.549 --> 00:14:06.659 ♪ "To keep my sisters waitin' when I'm in the mood" ♪ 00:14:06.659 --> 00:14:09.582 ♪ In the mood, that's what she told me ♪ 00:14:09.582 --> 00:14:12.534 ♪ In the mood, and when she told me ♪ 00:14:12.534 --> 00:14:15.564 ♪ In the mood, my heart was skippin' ♪ 00:14:15.564 --> 00:14:18.769 ♪ It didn't take me long to say "I'm in the mood now" ♪ 00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:21.720 ♪ In the mood, for all his kissin' ♪ 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:24.609 ♪ In the mood, his crazy lovin' ♪ 00:14:24.609 --> 00:14:27.538 ♪ In the mood, what I was missin' ♪ 00:14:27.538 --> 00:14:31.705 ♪ It didn't take me long to say "I'm in the mood now" ♪ 00:14:41.950 --> 00:14:44.807 ♪ In the mood, that's what she told me ♪ 00:14:44.807 --> 00:14:47.766 ♪ In the mood, and when she told me ♪ 00:14:47.766 --> 00:14:50.796 ♪ In the mood, my heart was skippin' ♪ 00:14:50.796 --> 00:14:53.777 ♪ It didn't take me long to say "I'm in the mood now" ♪ 00:14:53.777 --> 00:14:56.840 ♪ In the mood, for all his kissin' ♪ 00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.775 ♪ In the mood, his crazy lovin' ♪ 00:14:59.775 --> 00:15:02.631 ♪ In the mood, what I was missin' ♪ 00:15:02.631 --> 00:15:05.828 ♪ It didn't take me long to say "I'm in the mood now" ♪ 00:15:05.828 --> 00:15:10.469 ♪ In the mood, I'm in the mood ♪ 00:15:10.469 --> 00:15:13.302 ♪ I'm in the mood ♪ 00:15:14.252 --> 00:15:16.624 ♪ It didn't take me long, didn't take me long ♪ 00:15:16.624 --> 00:15:19.483 ♪ Didn't take me long ♪ 00:15:19.483 --> 00:15:23.066 ♪ To say "I'm in the mood" ♪ 00:15:26.442 --> 00:15:30.042 (audience applauds) 00:15:30.042 --> 00:15:31.042 Thank you. 00:15:47.629 --> 00:15:50.678 So Mr. Angel, if you could join me here. 00:15:50.678 --> 00:15:52.845 Just find your way around. 00:15:54.063 --> 00:15:56.586 (laughs) You know, I didn't mention one thing. 00:15:56.586 --> 00:15:59.118 I have kind of a personal connection with this choir now 00:15:59.118 --> 00:16:01.352 because my future daughter-in-law, 00:16:01.352 --> 00:16:04.523 who graduated from A&M, i.e. the colors, 00:16:04.523 --> 00:16:07.142 this is big for a Baylor girl. 00:16:07.142 --> 00:16:08.566 She was in this choir. 00:16:08.566 --> 00:16:10.589 So Taylor Slocum, my future daughter in law, 00:16:10.589 --> 00:16:12.464 was in this choir, and Mr. Angel was 00:16:12.464 --> 00:16:15.443 one of her favorite teachers of all time. 00:16:15.443 --> 00:16:19.251 And I've heard a few stories, so hats off to you. 00:16:19.251 --> 00:16:24.209 And I think you've been in education, teaching 40 years, 00:16:24.209 --> 00:16:26.926 so I'm pretty sure you beat most of us in the room, 00:16:26.926 --> 00:16:28.776 so congratulations on that. 00:16:28.776 --> 00:16:31.026 (applause) 00:16:34.125 --> 00:16:36.744 So this is from the State Board of Education, 00:16:36.744 --> 00:16:38.807 a special recognition presented 00:16:38.807 --> 00:16:41.951 to the A&M Consolidated High School Chorale 00:16:41.951 --> 00:16:43.449 for outstanding performance 00:16:43.449 --> 00:16:46.157 at the State Board of Education general meeting. 00:16:46.157 --> 00:16:49.504 So there you go, thank you so much, good job. 00:16:49.504 --> 00:16:50.337 Good job. 00:16:50.337 --> 00:16:52.578 And I think we're gonna have pictures. 00:16:52.578 --> 00:16:53.411 So. 00:18:39.457 --> 00:18:41.207 For our invocation. 00:18:43.017 --> 00:18:45.184 We're a rowdy bunch today. 00:18:46.689 --> 00:18:48.887 (laughs) It's that last song, that's right. 00:18:48.887 --> 00:18:50.778 That was a beautiful choir. 00:18:50.778 --> 00:18:53.730 Thank you for inviting them, Miss Cargill. 00:18:53.730 --> 00:18:57.647 So our invocation is our Member Georgina Perez. 00:18:59.027 --> 00:19:01.194 Good morning, thank you. 00:19:05.407 --> 00:19:07.168 So thank you for this opportunity. 00:19:07.168 --> 00:19:09.024 Before I begin with the invocation, 00:19:09.024 --> 00:19:12.941 I would like to express my thanks and gratitude 00:19:16.366 --> 00:19:20.655 because this is the completion of my first year on the board 00:19:20.655 --> 00:19:22.766 and I will tell you, I miss being on this side 00:19:22.766 --> 00:19:24.268 of the podium quite a bit, 00:19:24.268 --> 00:19:28.182 but I really enjoy sitting over there. 00:19:28.182 --> 00:19:30.513 But you all were very welcoming to me, 00:19:30.513 --> 00:19:34.554 and I believe that I have gained many friends. 00:19:34.554 --> 00:19:35.637 So thank you. 00:19:40.354 --> 00:19:43.104 I think that the choir really set us up 00:19:43.104 --> 00:19:46.617 for a beautiful invocation this morning. 00:19:46.617 --> 00:19:48.110 (laughs) I was listening to them 00:19:48.110 --> 00:19:52.269 and I thought, wow, I feel like I'm in Mass. 00:19:52.269 --> 00:19:55.009 So if you would please join me 00:19:55.009 --> 00:19:58.926 in reflection, meditation, praise, and worship. 00:20:04.094 --> 00:20:06.181 Heavenly Creator, 00:20:06.181 --> 00:20:10.626 we come to you today humbled by your power and influence, 00:20:10.626 --> 00:20:14.690 ever mindful that you are called by many names. 00:20:14.690 --> 00:20:18.479 You are the omnipotent being with power over all. 00:20:18.479 --> 00:20:21.129 We ask that you grant us the strength and will 00:20:21.129 --> 00:20:25.539 to do what is right as we create policy for Texas children. 00:20:25.539 --> 00:20:26.978 We ask that you grant us wisdom 00:20:26.978 --> 00:20:30.153 in the silence of our thoughts, patience in debate, 00:20:30.153 --> 00:20:33.496 and understanding when communicating with one another. 00:20:33.496 --> 00:20:36.627 Let us be ever mindful that blessed are those 00:20:36.627 --> 00:20:38.885 that hunger and thirst for righteousness, 00:20:38.885 --> 00:20:41.571 for they shall be satisfied. 00:20:41.571 --> 00:20:43.469 Creator, help us to remember your teachings 00:20:43.469 --> 00:20:45.547 of compassion and mercy. 00:20:45.547 --> 00:20:47.767 Help us to live up to your teaching 00:20:47.767 --> 00:20:50.331 that we are our brother's keeper 00:20:50.331 --> 00:20:51.972 and that we never forget, 00:20:51.972 --> 00:20:54.507 as individuals we may gain riches 00:20:54.507 --> 00:20:56.655 but it is only through caring for the weakest among us 00:20:56.655 --> 00:20:59.144 that we prosper as your people. 00:20:59.144 --> 00:21:02.399 Let us be ever mindful that blessed are the merciful 00:21:02.399 --> 00:21:04.732 for they shall obtain mercy. 00:21:05.861 --> 00:21:08.719 Heavenly Power, we ask especially today 00:21:08.719 --> 00:21:10.859 that you bless and keep those injured 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:13.249 and the families of those injured or lost 00:21:13.249 --> 00:21:16.404 to a senseless act of violence last Sunday. 00:21:16.404 --> 00:21:19.119 Let us keep them not just in our prayers 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:23.641 but in our actions as common sense, rational human beings 00:21:23.641 --> 00:21:25.818 and follow your teachings. 00:21:25.818 --> 00:21:29.064 Give us the wisdom and courage to look for solutions 00:21:29.064 --> 00:21:32.177 and means to prevent these horrific acts of terrorism 00:21:32.177 --> 00:21:36.248 that have become all too often in our nation. 00:21:36.248 --> 00:21:39.082 Keep us ever mindful of the teachings of scripture 00:21:39.082 --> 00:21:43.162 that tell us when someone slaps you on the right cheek, 00:21:43.162 --> 00:21:45.597 turn to them the other cheek also. 00:21:45.597 --> 00:21:48.024 And that if someone wants your shirt, 00:21:48.024 --> 00:21:50.525 hand over your coat as well. 00:21:50.525 --> 00:21:53.350 Because Heavenly Creator, as scripture teaches us, 00:21:53.350 --> 00:21:55.354 blessed are the peacemakers, 00:21:55.354 --> 00:21:58.466 for they shall be called children of God. 00:21:58.466 --> 00:22:01.236 Grant us, creator, the fortitude to live the life 00:22:01.236 --> 00:22:03.710 of your prophet and carpenter's son, 00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:06.823 who embraced those that society deemed unworthy 00:22:06.823 --> 00:22:07.990 and worthless. 00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:12.295 And finally, Creator, we ask that you keep us focused 00:22:12.295 --> 00:22:15.072 on doing for the least of your children 00:22:15.072 --> 00:22:17.298 as you have done for us. 00:22:17.298 --> 00:22:21.483 And that when we disagree, quarrel, and argue, 00:22:21.483 --> 00:22:24.495 that we recall the teachers of scripture 00:22:24.495 --> 00:22:28.026 that say blessed are those that are persecuted 00:22:28.026 --> 00:22:30.157 for the sake of righteousness, 00:22:30.157 --> 00:22:33.350 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 00:22:33.350 --> 00:22:36.620 It is in your divine name we worship and pray. 00:22:36.620 --> 00:22:37.453 Amen. 00:22:40.220 --> 00:22:44.220 Alright, now the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:22:47.586 --> 00:22:49.818 I pledge allegiance to the flag 00:22:49.818 --> 00:22:52.290 of the United States of America. 00:22:52.290 --> 00:22:55.287 And to the Republic for which it stands. 00:22:55.287 --> 00:22:58.640 One nation, under God, indivisible, 00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:01.639 with liberty and justice for all. 00:23:01.639 --> 00:23:03.577 The Texas pledge. 00:23:03.577 --> 00:23:05.564 Honor the Texas flag. 00:23:05.564 --> 00:23:08.634 I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, 00:23:08.634 --> 00:23:12.051 one state under God, one and indivisible. 00:23:13.061 --> 00:23:16.359 And if I may, Madam Chairwoman. 00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:17.618 Well, maybe. 00:23:17.618 --> 00:23:19.372 (laughs) 00:23:19.372 --> 00:23:20.271 Maybe. 00:23:20.271 --> 00:23:21.271 That's cute. 00:23:24.950 --> 00:23:28.867 (speaking in Spanish) 00:23:32.401 --> 00:23:34.484 Good morning and welcome. 00:23:37.389 --> 00:23:41.570 (laughs) That was good. 00:23:41.570 --> 00:23:42.403 Oh gosh. 00:23:46.563 --> 00:23:50.589 And okay, I think it's time for our roll call. 00:23:50.589 --> 00:23:51.589 Mr. Allen. 00:23:52.594 --> 00:23:53.496 Present. 00:23:53.496 --> 00:23:54.534 Miss Bahorich. 00:23:54.534 --> 00:23:55.596 Present. 00:23:55.596 --> 00:23:57.031 Miss Beltran. 00:23:57.031 --> 00:23:57.864 Present. 00:23:57.864 --> 00:23:58.897 Mr. Bradley. 00:23:58.897 --> 00:24:00.086 Present. 00:24:00.086 --> 00:24:00.919 Mrs. Cargill. 00:24:00.919 --> 00:24:01.994 Here. 00:24:01.994 --> 00:24:02.881 Mr. Cortez. 00:24:02.881 --> 00:24:03.864 Here. 00:24:03.864 --> 00:24:04.697 Dr. Ellis. 00:24:04.697 --> 00:24:05.530 Here. 00:24:05.530 --> 00:24:06.363 Miss Hardy. 00:24:06.363 --> 00:24:07.196 Here. 00:24:07.196 --> 00:24:08.029 Mr. Maynard. 00:24:08.029 --> 00:24:08.862 Here. 00:24:08.862 --> 00:24:10.128 Mrs. Melton Malone. Here. 00:24:10.128 --> 00:24:11.352 Mr. Mercer. Here. 00:24:11.352 --> 00:24:12.352 Mrs. Miller. 00:24:12.352 --> 00:24:13.185 Here. 00:24:13.185 --> 00:24:14.609 Miss Perez. 00:24:14.609 --> 00:24:15.442 Here. 00:24:15.442 --> 00:24:16.881 Miss Perez-Diaz. 00:24:16.881 --> 00:24:17.984 Here. 00:24:17.984 --> 00:24:19.051 And Mr. Rowley. 00:24:19.051 --> 00:24:19.884 Here. 00:24:23.620 --> 00:24:27.405 The next item of business is to prove the minutes 00:24:27.405 --> 00:24:29.468 from the September 15th meeting. 00:24:29.468 --> 00:24:32.180 Are there any corrections to the minutes? 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:35.915 Hearing none, minutes are approved as presented to us. 00:24:35.915 --> 00:24:38.133 Now we have resolutions and presentations. 00:24:38.133 --> 00:24:39.708 National History Day winners. 00:24:39.708 --> 00:24:43.375 Ruben Cortez Junior, to read our resolution. 00:24:45.592 --> 00:24:49.780 Well, this is always a joy to do this one every year. 00:24:49.780 --> 00:24:52.385 It's probably one of the exciting ones 00:24:52.385 --> 00:24:54.552 to see our kids in action. 00:24:58.452 --> 00:25:02.608 Did we want to bring the students into the circle first 00:25:02.608 --> 00:25:05.145 or did you want me to... 00:25:05.145 --> 00:25:06.645 I usually get a... 00:25:09.495 --> 00:25:10.433 We can bring them up. 00:25:10.433 --> 00:25:11.367 You want to bring them up? 00:25:11.367 --> 00:25:14.867 Can we bring our students into our circle? 00:25:16.557 --> 00:25:18.890 Steven, could you join them? 00:25:34.733 --> 00:25:37.733 Members, if you have any recipients, 00:25:39.348 --> 00:25:41.931 please join them in the circle. 00:25:57.651 --> 00:25:59.677 Alright, here we go. 00:25:59.677 --> 00:26:03.912 Whereas, the State Board of Education considers 00:26:03.912 --> 00:26:08.036 high academic standard as a foundation of public education 00:26:08.036 --> 00:26:11.530 in Texas; and whereas, the National History Day Program 00:26:11.530 --> 00:26:16.488 fosters academic achievement and intellectual growth 00:26:16.488 --> 00:26:19.943 requires student participants to consider 00:26:19.943 --> 00:26:24.204 extensive primary and secondary source research 00:26:24.204 --> 00:26:27.853 on a topic of historical significance 00:26:27.853 --> 00:26:32.020 and promotes pride in each student participant's heritage 00:26:33.350 --> 00:26:37.517 and in our nation's history and place in the world; 00:26:39.190 --> 00:26:43.807 and whereas, the annual National History Day Contest, 00:26:43.807 --> 00:26:47.997 the theme "Taking a Stand in History" was held 00:26:47.997 --> 00:26:52.164 in College Park, Maryland on June 11th through 15, 2017. 00:26:55.548 --> 00:26:59.506 And whereas Madeline Broussard and Brandon Broussard 00:26:59.506 --> 00:27:03.673 of Gentry Junior High in Baytown, Texas won first place 00:27:04.918 --> 00:27:08.677 in the Junior Division Group Performance category 00:27:08.677 --> 00:27:13.169 with their performance titled "Fanning the Flame 00:27:13.169 --> 00:27:15.780 "and Inspiring the Fourth." 00:27:15.780 --> 00:27:19.947 And whereas, Javi Gwen of Ross S. Sterling High School 00:27:23.048 --> 00:27:28.039 in Baytown, Texas won second place in the Senior Division 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.770 Individual Exhibit category with her exhibit 00:27:31.770 --> 00:27:35.937 titled "Lewis Hine: Capturing the Injustice of Child Labor." 00:27:38.732 --> 00:27:43.022 And whereas, Danielle Garcia and Priscilla Garcia 00:27:43.022 --> 00:27:47.431 of Ross C. Sterling High School in Baytown, Texas 00:27:47.431 --> 00:27:48.764 won second place 00:27:49.895 --> 00:27:53.463 in the Senior Division Group Exhibit category 00:27:53.463 --> 00:27:56.637 with their exhibit titled "Freedom Writers: 00:27:56.637 --> 00:27:59.054 "Freedom's Wheels Are Rolling." 00:28:01.793 --> 00:28:05.960 Whereas, Wesley Sterhen of Highland Park High School 00:28:06.877 --> 00:28:09.821 in Dallas, Texas won third place 00:28:09.821 --> 00:28:13.658 in the Senior Division Individual Performance category 00:28:13.658 --> 00:28:17.658 with his performance titled "Alternating Current: 00:28:18.863 --> 00:28:20.530 "Powering the Future." 00:28:23.908 --> 00:28:25.960 Now, therefore be it resolved 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:28.867 that the State Board of Education does hereby congratulate 00:28:28.867 --> 00:28:32.117 these 2017 National History Day winners 00:28:33.320 --> 00:28:37.667 from Goose Creek Consolidated Independent School District 00:28:37.667 --> 00:28:40.706 and Highland Park Independent School District. 00:28:40.706 --> 00:28:45.169 And be it further resolved that this resolution be presented 00:28:45.169 --> 00:28:49.567 to the aforementioned students for their winning projects 00:28:49.567 --> 00:28:52.900 in the 2017 National History Day Contest 00:28:54.467 --> 00:28:57.778 and that a copy be included in the permanent records 00:28:57.778 --> 00:28:59.611 of the State Board of Education. 00:28:59.611 --> 00:29:04.209 Witness our signatures this 10th day of November, 2017 00:29:04.209 --> 00:29:05.711 in Austin, Texas. 00:29:05.711 --> 00:29:07.223 Donna Bahorich, Chair. 00:29:07.223 --> 00:29:09.806 Ruben Cortez Junior, Secretary. 00:29:10.926 --> 00:29:11.998 Congratulations. 00:29:11.998 --> 00:29:14.248 (applause) 00:29:26.523 --> 00:29:27.356 Okay, members. 00:29:27.356 --> 00:29:29.368 The motion before us is to adopt a resolution. 00:29:29.368 --> 00:29:30.849 All those in favor say aye? 00:29:30.849 --> 00:29:32.228 Aye. 00:29:32.228 --> 00:29:33.990 Alright, the resolution is adopted. 00:29:33.990 --> 00:29:36.862 So I'm looking forward to next year's participants. 00:29:36.862 --> 00:29:40.145 I think, Steven, is it conflict and compromise? 00:29:40.145 --> 00:29:41.409 Next year? 00:29:41.409 --> 00:29:42.363 Very exciting. 00:29:42.363 --> 00:29:45.030 Thank you guys, congratulations. 00:29:55.946 --> 00:29:58.138 (mumbles) 00:29:58.138 --> 00:29:59.879 (laughs) 00:29:59.879 --> 00:30:01.207 Alright, members, we're gonna go ahead 00:30:01.207 --> 00:30:03.303 and start our public testimony. 00:30:03.303 --> 00:30:05.379 We have two persons who have-- 00:30:05.379 --> 00:30:06.212 I'm sorry. 00:30:06.212 --> 00:30:07.050 Do we need to adopt it? 00:30:07.050 --> 00:30:07.883 Already did. 00:30:07.883 --> 00:30:08.716 Oh, we did? 00:30:08.716 --> 00:30:09.549 We did. 00:30:09.549 --> 00:30:10.466 We adopted. 00:30:13.595 --> 00:30:17.650 Yeah, you were excited about all that history, it's great. 00:30:17.650 --> 00:30:19.059 Okay, public testimony. 00:30:19.059 --> 00:30:20.705 Two persons have registered 00:30:20.705 --> 00:30:25.667 and when you speak, for those who are coming to testify, 00:30:25.667 --> 00:30:27.667 we've got three minutes. 00:30:29.026 --> 00:30:31.727 When it's one minute to go, in the time, 00:30:31.727 --> 00:30:33.535 you'll hear the first bell. 00:30:33.535 --> 00:30:37.882 And on the second bell, we'd ask you to wrap up 00:30:37.882 --> 00:30:38.845 your last thought. 00:30:38.845 --> 00:30:43.012 And then of course the floor will be open for any questions. 00:30:44.749 --> 00:30:47.934 And you can start at any time. 00:30:47.934 --> 00:30:49.819 Go ahead and call up our testifiers. 00:30:49.819 --> 00:30:51.819 Diana Tucker? 00:31:12.798 --> 00:31:15.260 Oh, there it goes. 00:31:15.260 --> 00:31:16.146 Good morning. 00:31:16.146 --> 00:31:17.077 Thank you for your service 00:31:17.077 --> 00:31:18.541 with the State Board of Education 00:31:18.541 --> 00:31:20.481 and for your dedication to the students 00:31:20.481 --> 00:31:23.720 within Texas public education. 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.344 My name is Diana Tucker, and I am the parent 00:31:26.344 --> 00:31:29.612 of one high school student and three recent graduates 00:31:29.612 --> 00:31:31.631 from Prosper High School. 00:31:31.631 --> 00:31:33.959 My concern that I'm raising before you today 00:31:33.959 --> 00:31:36.608 deals with attendance for credit on the high school level 00:31:36.608 --> 00:31:39.455 and awarding high school credits to students 00:31:39.455 --> 00:31:43.066 that are missing a substantial amount of class time. 00:31:43.066 --> 00:31:46.460 Compulsory attendance and attendance for credit 00:31:46.460 --> 00:31:48.018 are defined by state law. 00:31:48.018 --> 00:31:49.952 Attendance for funding is defined 00:31:49.952 --> 00:31:54.295 by the State Board of Education Rule to Fund Education. 00:31:54.295 --> 00:31:56.074 The current wonky logic 00:31:56.074 --> 00:31:58.283 that I'm bringing before you is this. 00:31:58.283 --> 00:32:00.807 Students are under school supervision 00:32:00.807 --> 00:32:03.559 are counted in attendance for attendance for funding. 00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.309 If the student is counted in attendance for funding, 00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:10.249 they are automatically counted in attendance for credit. 00:32:10.249 --> 00:32:11.727 I disagree. 00:32:11.727 --> 00:32:14.944 When my son was gone for the day for a debate tournament 00:32:14.944 --> 00:32:17.954 or a tennis match, should he get attendance for credit 00:32:17.954 --> 00:32:20.109 for the classes that he missed? 00:32:20.109 --> 00:32:23.164 Such as Math, Science, Social Studies, and English? 00:32:23.164 --> 00:32:25.349 Attendance for funding, yes. 00:32:25.349 --> 00:32:28.781 Attendance for credit for those missed classes, no. 00:32:28.781 --> 00:32:31.341 When he was on campus but sick in the nurse's office 00:32:31.341 --> 00:32:33.036 and didn't go to class? 00:32:33.036 --> 00:32:35.276 Attendance for funding, yes. 00:32:35.276 --> 00:32:38.743 Attendance for credit for that missed class, no. 00:32:38.743 --> 00:32:42.160 The plain language of statute 25.092 says 00:32:44.026 --> 00:32:47.578 a student may not be given credit or a final grade 00:32:47.578 --> 00:32:50.127 for a class unless a student is in attendance 00:32:50.127 --> 00:32:53.910 for at least 90% of the days the class is offered. 00:32:53.910 --> 00:32:57.277 To some extent, the Attorney General has already offered 00:32:57.277 --> 00:32:59.101 an opinion on the subject. 00:32:59.101 --> 00:33:02.268 Attorney General opinion JC0398 states 00:33:03.239 --> 00:33:06.243 "We conclude that a student, in order to receive credit 00:33:06.243 --> 00:33:10.410 "under section 25.092, is required to actually attend class 00:33:12.510 --> 00:33:15.177 "for the requisite period, 00:33:15.177 --> 00:33:18.189 "regardless of whether his absences are excused 00:33:18.189 --> 00:33:20.017 "or unexcused." 00:33:20.017 --> 00:33:21.100 Real simple. 00:33:21.100 --> 00:33:22.751 If the student was not in class, 00:33:22.751 --> 00:33:24.839 he was not in attendance for the class. 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:27.689 Whether deemed absent or not for attendance 00:33:27.689 --> 00:33:30.424 for funding purposes is not related. 00:33:30.424 --> 00:33:32.774 The simple language of the law is that the student needs 00:33:32.774 --> 00:33:35.799 to be in attendance for at least 90% of the days 00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:37.704 the class is offered. 00:33:37.704 --> 00:33:40.749 In high school, each class is credited separately, 00:33:40.749 --> 00:33:43.415 so the 90% attendance for credit applies 00:33:43.415 --> 00:33:45.723 to each individual class. 00:33:45.723 --> 00:33:49.150 An extracurricular absence is an absence. 00:33:49.150 --> 00:33:52.506 It might be excused but it is still an absence. 00:33:52.506 --> 00:33:54.882 If you are on campus but not in class 00:33:54.882 --> 00:33:58.147 when the class is meeting, you are still not in attendance 00:33:58.147 --> 00:33:59.397 for that class. 00:34:00.996 --> 00:34:02.770 As the State Board of Education, 00:34:02.770 --> 00:34:05.950 I ask you to bring your rules into compliance 00:34:05.950 --> 00:34:08.424 with the simple language of the state law, 00:34:08.424 --> 00:34:12.886 as evidenced by the Attorney General's opinion. 00:34:12.886 --> 00:34:14.123 Thank you. 00:34:14.123 --> 00:34:17.206 And then I've attached some examples. 00:34:19.487 --> 00:34:22.239 First, are there any questions? 00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:25.202 Where is your district? 00:34:25.202 --> 00:34:26.035 Prosper. 00:34:26.035 --> 00:34:27.069 Where is Prosper? 00:34:27.069 --> 00:34:29.279 It's north of Dallas, in Collintown. 00:34:29.279 --> 00:34:30.279 Oh, okay. 00:34:30.279 --> 00:34:32.696 I'm not gonna argue with her. 00:34:35.004 --> 00:34:35.974 Any questions? 00:34:35.974 --> 00:34:37.444 Yes, Miss Hardy? 00:34:37.444 --> 00:34:39.611 (mumbles) 00:34:43.264 --> 00:34:45.714 Well, a testifier can testify 00:34:45.714 --> 00:34:47.464 about anything but... 00:34:50.040 --> 00:34:52.109 If maybe the testifier could identify 00:34:52.109 --> 00:34:54.277 the administrative rule that she's referring to, 00:34:54.277 --> 00:34:57.652 we could discern whether it's State Board of Education 00:34:57.652 --> 00:34:59.052 or Commissioner rule. 00:34:59.052 --> 00:35:02.749 Do you have the specific rule that you're referring to? 00:35:02.749 --> 00:35:04.283 Because you were asking us to bring our rules 00:35:04.283 --> 00:35:05.616 into compliance? 00:35:07.691 --> 00:35:09.303 It would say TAC. 00:35:09.303 --> 00:35:11.888 So what you've included is the education code. 00:35:11.888 --> 00:35:15.093 So are you talking about 129.21? 00:35:15.093 --> 00:35:16.093 Is that the? 00:35:17.345 --> 00:35:18.928 On your first page? 00:35:20.498 --> 00:35:24.331 I am talking about, well, on the first page, 00:35:26.179 --> 00:35:29.679 the Attendance for Funding, the TAC 129.21 00:35:32.649 --> 00:35:35.749 and the Students' Attendance Accounting Handbook. 00:35:35.749 --> 00:35:38.002 That's the rule you're referring to? 00:35:38.002 --> 00:35:40.073 That you think they need to address? 00:35:40.073 --> 00:35:40.906 Yes. 00:35:40.906 --> 00:35:41.823 Why, why... 00:35:46.067 --> 00:35:47.668 In the Attendance Accounting Handbook, 00:35:47.668 --> 00:35:51.501 why are they allowed to get credit for classes 00:35:54.827 --> 00:35:56.744 when they're not there? 00:35:58.381 --> 00:36:00.247 So they shouldn't be. 00:36:00.247 --> 00:36:01.750 We'll have to take a look at that. 00:36:01.750 --> 00:36:04.717 Maybe you can give us a moment to look that up. 00:36:04.717 --> 00:36:08.161 Yeah, I think staff's gonna try and look this up 00:36:08.161 --> 00:36:10.815 and figure out exactly what part of the code 00:36:10.815 --> 00:36:12.675 that your request is referring to. 00:36:12.675 --> 00:36:14.343 Because that's the concern that we have is 00:36:14.343 --> 00:36:17.314 what rule exactly is it that is not being-- 00:36:17.314 --> 00:36:18.957 Yeah, so just for clarification, 00:36:18.957 --> 00:36:21.766 some administrative rules fall 00:36:21.766 --> 00:36:23.395 under the State Board of Education 00:36:23.395 --> 00:36:25.812 and some fall under the Commissioner of Education. 00:36:25.812 --> 00:36:29.308 So we just need to determine specifically 00:36:29.308 --> 00:36:33.455 whether this body has any say in a change to the rule. 00:36:33.455 --> 00:36:35.716 I assume the next person's gonna testify 00:36:35.716 --> 00:36:36.618 on the same thing. 00:36:36.618 --> 00:36:38.606 Is that correct? 00:36:38.606 --> 00:36:41.079 Or at least you both have Tucker at the end of your name. 00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.010 Yes, yes, yes. 00:36:43.010 --> 00:36:44.904 His actually might be more applicable 00:36:44.904 --> 00:36:48.821 because it goes more specifically with defining 00:36:50.221 --> 00:36:52.226 the instructional minutes 00:36:52.226 --> 00:36:56.059 in the Student Attendance Accounting Handbook. 00:36:58.958 --> 00:36:59.791 Okay. 00:36:59.791 --> 00:37:01.240 Yes, Dr. Ellis? 00:37:01.240 --> 00:37:02.516 Yes, I would just say what's allowed 00:37:02.516 --> 00:37:04.424 in public common is we can ask clarifying questions 00:37:04.424 --> 00:37:07.532 or address them to the proper staff members. 00:37:07.532 --> 00:37:08.989 So can we do that is address her 00:37:08.989 --> 00:37:10.977 who the proper person would be to follow up on this 00:37:10.977 --> 00:37:14.025 that could then therefore get information about... 00:37:14.025 --> 00:37:16.328 Yes, and staff is looking up what part of the code 00:37:16.328 --> 00:37:18.830 because her request is for us to adjust our rules. 00:37:18.830 --> 00:37:20.148 So we're not sure if they're our rules, 00:37:20.148 --> 00:37:22.934 Commissioner rules, or exactly what part of the code. 00:37:22.934 --> 00:37:24.735 So we're trying to figure that out. 00:37:24.735 --> 00:37:27.093 I think we should go ahead and hear the next testifier 00:37:27.093 --> 00:37:30.582 if that's okay with members and then... 00:37:30.582 --> 00:37:33.094 You know, maybe by then we'll know a little better. 00:37:33.094 --> 00:37:34.068 Okay, thank you. 00:37:34.068 --> 00:37:35.529 Absolutely. 00:37:35.529 --> 00:37:37.446 Carl Tucker. 00:38:28.493 --> 00:38:30.048 Go ahead. 00:38:30.048 --> 00:38:33.298 Mr. Tucker, you can go ahead. 00:38:48.341 --> 00:38:50.095 Thank you. 00:38:50.095 --> 00:38:52.951 I'm Carl Tucker, four kids, Prosper, Texas. 00:38:52.951 --> 00:38:55.500 Today I'd like to discuss a subset of protection 00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:57.642 of academic time for academics, 00:38:57.642 --> 00:38:59.793 specifically instructional minutes. 00:38:59.793 --> 00:39:03.626 19 TAC, 129.21G states a student must be enrolled 00:39:04.617 --> 00:39:06.418 for at least two hours of instruction 00:39:06.418 --> 00:39:09.686 to be considered to be in membership for one half-day 00:39:09.686 --> 00:39:11.673 or for at least four hours of instruction 00:39:11.673 --> 00:39:15.022 to be considered in membership for one full day. 00:39:15.022 --> 00:39:17.307 The Student Accounting Handbook states 00:39:17.307 --> 00:39:20.697 to be eligible to generate FSP funding for attendance, 00:39:20.697 --> 00:39:22.874 a student must be either scheduled for 00:39:22.874 --> 00:39:26.522 and provided instruction at least two hours, 00:39:26.522 --> 00:39:29.740 half-day attendance, or four hours, full-day attendance. 00:39:29.740 --> 00:39:34.689 This is normally referred to as the two-to-four-hour rule. 00:39:34.689 --> 00:39:37.768 It is believed that instructional minutes is defined 00:39:37.768 --> 00:39:39.637 as the portion of the school day 00:39:39.637 --> 00:39:42.025 in which instruction takes place, 00:39:42.025 --> 00:39:44.249 along with certain other exceptions 00:39:44.249 --> 00:39:47.672 that are considered a subset of operational minutes. 00:39:47.672 --> 00:39:52.463 That's coming from a TEA letter, August 31st, 2017. 00:39:52.463 --> 00:39:54.149 Though I cannot find this definition 00:39:54.149 --> 00:39:57.098 in the Student Attendance Accounting Handbook, 00:39:57.098 --> 00:39:59.998 this is fairly self-explanatory concept 00:39:59.998 --> 00:40:03.393 and should ensure the protection of at least four hours 00:40:03.393 --> 00:40:06.116 of the school day for academic purposes. 00:40:06.116 --> 00:40:08.715 However, in practice this does not provide 00:40:08.715 --> 00:40:12.392 the desired result, the protection of academic time. 00:40:12.392 --> 00:40:16.559 As an example, Homecoming for some of my children, 00:40:18.537 --> 00:40:20.462 they arrived late to school, 00:40:20.462 --> 00:40:22.987 they did a Homecoming talent show, 00:40:22.987 --> 00:40:27.139 they did a senior privilege off-campus long lunch, 00:40:27.139 --> 00:40:29.317 and then followed by a pep rally. 00:40:29.317 --> 00:40:32.912 Zero time in the classroom for that school day. 00:40:32.912 --> 00:40:36.866 So the question I have is does Homecoming talent show 00:40:36.866 --> 00:40:40.510 or pep rallies count as provided instruction? 00:40:40.510 --> 00:40:44.047 Example two, Strikes or Main Event. 00:40:44.047 --> 00:40:46.714 My children were sent to Strikes or Main Event 00:40:46.714 --> 00:40:48.188 for the entire school day. 00:40:48.188 --> 00:40:52.159 Those are off post bowling or arcade establishments 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:53.813 in the local area. 00:40:53.813 --> 00:40:55.359 So my question is, 00:40:55.359 --> 00:40:58.371 does reporting to an off post entertainment establishment 00:40:58.371 --> 00:41:01.538 all day count as provided instruction? 00:41:02.872 --> 00:41:05.133 The third example is Trifecta. 00:41:05.133 --> 00:41:06.288 During the school day, 00:41:06.288 --> 00:41:09.228 my kids went to powder puff football games, 00:41:09.228 --> 00:41:12.285 dodgeball tournaments, and teacher wrap-ups 00:41:12.285 --> 00:41:14.396 for the entire school day. 00:41:14.396 --> 00:41:16.896 Do events such as powder puff football, 00:41:16.896 --> 00:41:19.529 dodgeball tournaments, and teacher wrap-up 00:41:19.529 --> 00:41:22.921 used as a fundraiser during the school day count 00:41:22.921 --> 00:41:25.238 as provided instruction? 00:41:25.238 --> 00:41:29.061 Additional examples are in the packets at exhibit one. 00:41:29.061 --> 00:41:31.592 The Superintendent and School Board of our school 00:41:31.592 --> 00:41:33.031 state it this way. 00:41:33.031 --> 00:41:36.573 "The four hour instructional rule that you referenced 00:41:36.573 --> 00:41:39.185 "pertains to minimum enrollment requirements 00:41:39.185 --> 00:41:42.126 "and not attendance in terms of what constitutes 00:41:42.126 --> 00:41:44.092 "a full time student. 00:41:44.092 --> 00:41:46.984 "TEA states that as long as the event is approved 00:41:46.984 --> 00:41:51.050 "by the school board and under supervision of school staff, 00:41:51.050 --> 00:41:53.670 "it is considered instructional minutes 00:41:53.670 --> 00:41:57.122 "unless it is a study hall or a passing period." 00:41:57.122 --> 00:41:58.701 Exhibit two. 00:41:58.701 --> 00:41:59.943 This does not make sense 00:41:59.943 --> 00:42:01.747 and conflicts with the plain language 00:42:01.747 --> 00:42:04.300 in the Student Attendance Accounting Handbook 00:42:04.300 --> 00:42:06.147 with TEA's definition. 00:42:06.147 --> 00:42:08.899 Most of the listed examples would count 00:42:08.899 --> 00:42:11.205 as provided instruction. 00:42:11.205 --> 00:42:12.557 Why the confusion? 00:42:12.557 --> 00:42:14.188 Mr.-- 00:42:14.188 --> 00:42:15.863 If you could just kind of wrap up your last thought 00:42:15.863 --> 00:42:17.242 because the bell has rung 00:42:17.242 --> 00:42:18.353 and just kind of get your last thought. 00:42:18.353 --> 00:42:19.221 And we'll ask you questions. 00:42:19.221 --> 00:42:20.421 Okay. 00:42:20.421 --> 00:42:22.831 My last thought is that it's very critical 00:42:22.831 --> 00:42:27.656 to define what you mean by instructional minutes 00:42:27.656 --> 00:42:29.771 and that is where the confusion comes from 00:42:29.771 --> 00:42:33.811 is what exactly is the definition of instructional minutes 00:42:33.811 --> 00:42:38.272 and therefore what falls under instructional minutes. 00:42:38.272 --> 00:42:42.538 And I assume that staff is still looking at this issue? 00:42:42.538 --> 00:42:45.121 Is that correct, Miss Martinez? 00:42:48.353 --> 00:42:50.038 Okay, so as I understand it, 00:42:50.038 --> 00:42:53.291 the concern is about students receiving credit. 00:42:53.291 --> 00:42:56.620 That would be something that would be under TEA purview, 00:42:56.620 --> 00:42:59.291 my department, not State Board of Education, 00:42:59.291 --> 00:43:02.890 so I will certainly work with the testifier 00:43:02.890 --> 00:43:05.820 to try and make sure that those concerns are addressed. 00:43:05.820 --> 00:43:07.627 That's what we were just trying to figure out 00:43:07.627 --> 00:43:09.230 is who to talk to. 00:43:09.230 --> 00:43:11.576 So award of credit would be TEA, 00:43:11.576 --> 00:43:13.827 not State Board of Education. 00:43:13.827 --> 00:43:15.109 Okay, great. 00:43:15.109 --> 00:43:18.322 So Mr. and Mrs. Tucker, if you could work with staff 00:43:18.322 --> 00:43:20.285 about this, that would be terrific. 00:43:20.285 --> 00:43:21.879 But somebody have a question? 00:43:21.879 --> 00:43:23.296 Yes, Mr. Maynard? 00:43:24.345 --> 00:43:25.178 Hey, Mr. Tucker. 00:43:25.178 --> 00:43:29.345 I know that coming down to Austin is no easy task. 00:43:31.494 --> 00:43:32.663 You know, waiting through the traffic 00:43:32.663 --> 00:43:34.663 and coming from Prosper. 00:43:36.108 --> 00:43:37.501 Can you tell us a little bit about yourself 00:43:37.501 --> 00:43:41.538 and kind of what the origin of this concern was 00:43:41.538 --> 00:43:43.059 and give us a little bit of context? 00:43:43.059 --> 00:43:43.960 I'm just curious. 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:47.307 Okay, this context goes back a little over four years, 00:43:47.307 --> 00:43:51.266 so this has been a long term fight for us 00:43:51.266 --> 00:43:53.974 and for our children in Prosper. 00:43:53.974 --> 00:43:58.078 It started out at the level one informal meetings 00:43:58.078 --> 00:43:59.927 with the principal, et cetera. 00:43:59.927 --> 00:44:02.141 It's gone through multiple level two, 00:44:02.141 --> 00:44:04.401 level three formal complaints. 00:44:04.401 --> 00:44:06.662 There is a complaint with TEA that's been there 00:44:06.662 --> 00:44:10.536 for over 2 1/2 years that's currently under investigation, 00:44:10.536 --> 00:44:13.794 and there's an appeal before the Commissioner of Education 00:44:13.794 --> 00:44:15.968 which has been there over a year and a half 00:44:15.968 --> 00:44:18.015 on this very topic. 00:44:18.015 --> 00:44:19.682 So that's my background. 00:44:19.682 --> 00:44:22.964 So I mean, can you tell us a little bit about yourself 00:44:22.964 --> 00:44:27.131 and kind of what, just, I guess what you felt like 00:44:27.979 --> 00:44:32.085 just as a parent and watching your kids go through school 00:44:32.085 --> 00:44:35.103 and just seem like there was a lot of playing around 00:44:35.103 --> 00:44:37.194 and not as much in instruction. 00:44:37.194 --> 00:44:38.673 Is that what I'm gathering? 00:44:38.673 --> 00:44:42.340 And so just as a matter of trying to protect 00:44:44.092 --> 00:44:46.244 the instructional day, 00:44:46.244 --> 00:44:47.652 that this is just something 00:44:47.652 --> 00:44:50.678 that y'all have had a passion for? 00:44:50.678 --> 00:44:54.187 Yes, we have a passion for education. 00:44:54.187 --> 00:44:56.446 In fact, I have two kids, 00:44:56.446 --> 00:44:59.432 most of my kids will be in the top 10% 00:44:59.432 --> 00:45:01.690 of any school they're in. 00:45:01.690 --> 00:45:03.940 They are very good students 00:45:05.682 --> 00:45:09.030 because we demand, you know, the educational side 00:45:09.030 --> 00:45:12.421 on our kids, so we think that's very important. 00:45:12.421 --> 00:45:15.640 We let them play athletics, band, anything else, UIL, 00:45:15.640 --> 00:45:18.133 whatever they want to do in those regards 00:45:18.133 --> 00:45:20.968 but academics comes first 00:45:20.968 --> 00:45:24.547 and whatever else they want to do comes second. 00:45:24.547 --> 00:45:26.297 Alright, thank you. 00:45:28.256 --> 00:45:30.906 Members, I do know that this has been brought up 00:45:30.906 --> 00:45:32.985 to our attention in other ways. 00:45:32.985 --> 00:45:35.977 Dr. Sandra West has even had a survey, 00:45:35.977 --> 00:45:39.028 talked about lost instructional time 00:45:39.028 --> 00:45:41.356 that she discovered in talking with Science teachers 00:45:41.356 --> 00:45:44.262 around, so that seems to be what you're addressing 00:45:44.262 --> 00:45:45.539 is the lost instructional time. 00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:47.294 For whatever reason that it might be. 00:45:47.294 --> 00:45:49.370 So I think it is something though 00:45:49.370 --> 00:45:52.194 that, you know, if staff can do the follow up. 00:45:52.194 --> 00:45:53.114 Yes, ma'am. 00:45:53.114 --> 00:45:54.837 I've provided my contact information 00:45:54.837 --> 00:45:58.344 and we'll try and figure out exactly what the status is 00:45:58.344 --> 00:45:59.177 of the complaint. 00:45:59.177 --> 00:46:00.788 It's my understanding there's an official complaint 00:46:00.788 --> 00:46:04.076 with the agency, so we'll follow up on that next week. 00:46:04.076 --> 00:46:05.170 Okay, terrific. 00:46:05.170 --> 00:46:08.503 Thank you so much, thank you for coming. 00:46:10.651 --> 00:46:13.545 We are at the Consent Agenda. 00:46:13.545 --> 00:46:17.712 If you'll turn to page, roman numeral 11 in your book. 00:46:20.077 --> 00:46:20.910 I'm just gonna read-- 00:46:20.910 --> 00:46:22.680 Oh, sorry, I'm not on the right page here. 00:46:22.680 --> 00:46:24.080 Sorry. 00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:26.257 Yeah, roman 11, that's correct. 00:46:26.257 --> 00:46:29.007 I'm gonna read each one of these. 00:46:30.370 --> 00:46:31.249 Number one. 00:46:31.249 --> 00:46:35.406 Proposed revisions to 19 TAC, Chapter 130, 00:46:35.406 --> 00:46:36.923 Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills 00:46:36.923 --> 00:46:38.400 for Career and Technical Educations, 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:41.667 Subchapters B, H, J, M, and O, 00:46:41.667 --> 00:46:44.886 for first reading and filing authorization. 00:46:44.886 --> 00:46:48.447 Adoption of review of 19 TAC, Chapter 74, 00:46:48.447 --> 00:46:50.447 Curriculum Requirements. 00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:54.740 Approval of costs to administer 00:46:54.740 --> 00:46:58.323 this 2017/2018 state-developed assessments 00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.489 to private school students. 00:47:02.581 --> 00:47:04.815 Ratification of the purchases and sales 00:47:04.815 --> 00:47:07.127 of investment portfolio of the Permanent School Fund 00:47:07.127 --> 00:47:11.410 for the months of August and September 2017. 00:47:11.410 --> 00:47:14.410 Decision on real estate investments. 00:47:15.355 --> 00:47:18.899 Proposed amendments to 19 TAC, Chapter 33, 00:47:18.899 --> 00:47:21.996 Statement of Investment Objectives, Policies, 00:47:21.996 --> 00:47:24.214 and Guidelines of the Texas Permanent School Fund. 00:47:24.214 --> 00:47:27.124 Subchapter A, State Board of Education rules, 00:47:27.124 --> 00:47:31.101 33.65, Bond Guarantee Program for School Districts, 00:47:31.101 --> 00:47:35.521 and 33.67, Bond Guarantee Program for Charter Schools. 00:47:35.521 --> 00:47:39.358 First reading and filing authorization. 00:47:39.358 --> 00:47:42.479 Number seven, management of Charter District Bond 00:47:42.479 --> 00:47:44.396 Guarantee Reserve Fund. 00:47:45.253 --> 00:47:48.836 Review of Senate Bill 253 and House Bill 89 00:47:53.753 --> 00:47:56.420 of the 85th legislative session. 00:48:00.310 --> 00:48:03.035 And finally the presentation, no, I've got two more. 00:48:03.035 --> 00:48:06.044 Presentation on the Commodities Asset Class 00:48:06.044 --> 00:48:08.315 for the Permanent School Fund. 00:48:08.315 --> 00:48:10.260 And finally, recommendation for appointment 00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:12.406 to the Randolph Field Independent School District 00:48:12.406 --> 00:48:13.906 Board of Trustees. 00:48:16.388 --> 00:48:18.414 And Miss Miller, would you... 00:48:18.414 --> 00:48:20.581 (mumbles) 00:48:21.771 --> 00:48:22.604 So noted. 00:48:22.604 --> 00:48:24.318 Thank you, Miss Miller. 00:48:24.318 --> 00:48:25.895 Mr. Maynard. 00:48:25.895 --> 00:48:27.048 Not really a point of discussion 00:48:27.048 --> 00:48:30.007 but just a point of information for the board 00:48:30.007 --> 00:48:33.924 that the costs on the item related to the costs 00:48:35.322 --> 00:48:39.764 to administer assessments to private school students, 00:48:39.764 --> 00:48:42.579 there are about 4,300 private school students 00:48:42.579 --> 00:48:45.429 that took the STAAR test. 00:48:45.429 --> 00:48:46.627 How many? 00:48:46.627 --> 00:48:47.794 About 4,300. 00:48:49.072 --> 00:48:51.101 4,300 or so, yes. 00:48:51.101 --> 00:48:53.230 That also includes the TELPAS, 00:48:53.230 --> 00:48:55.898 but there are only seven students that did that. 00:48:55.898 --> 00:48:58.278 But the rest of that is STAAR test. 00:48:58.278 --> 00:49:00.867 So I will tell you that there are some private schools 00:49:00.867 --> 00:49:03.075 that believe that there is some value to that. 00:49:03.075 --> 00:49:04.375 Well, and a lot of the private schools 00:49:04.375 --> 00:49:07.601 that end, particularly at eighth grade, want to make sure 00:49:07.601 --> 00:49:10.503 and set their children up for success going on. 00:49:10.503 --> 00:49:12.198 Because if their private school ends at eighth, 00:49:12.198 --> 00:49:16.365 or eighth grade, because I know that's common in my area. 00:49:17.414 --> 00:49:21.581 If there's no objection, the Consent Agenda is approved. 00:49:25.463 --> 00:49:26.685 Okay. 00:49:26.685 --> 00:49:28.518 Next item of business. 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:35.173 Is, I believe, take it away, Mr. Rowley. 00:49:36.537 --> 00:49:37.952 Committee of Full Board. 00:49:37.952 --> 00:49:38.785 Okay, members. 00:49:38.785 --> 00:49:40.759 These are the committee recommendations 00:49:40.759 --> 00:49:43.334 from the Committee of the Full Board. 00:49:43.334 --> 00:49:47.501 First item is, it's the November 7th, 2017 minutes. 00:49:49.457 --> 00:49:51.790 It's a single page document. 00:49:53.143 --> 00:49:57.454 And we're on the second page, page two of that. 00:49:57.454 --> 00:49:58.716 Everybody see where I am? 00:49:58.716 --> 00:50:00.387 There's two sets of minutes. 00:50:00.387 --> 00:50:04.554 One is a single page and it's for November 7th, 2017. 00:50:09.586 --> 00:50:13.427 I'll wait a minute and let everybody get there. 00:50:13.427 --> 00:50:17.594 Those should have been in your box, handed out this morning. 00:50:20.945 --> 00:50:22.834 Everybody, you don't have it, Miss Miller? 00:50:22.834 --> 00:50:26.584 I want to make sure Miss Miller got a packet. 00:50:28.357 --> 00:50:30.918 Everybody should have the packet of the minutes. 00:50:30.918 --> 00:50:31.751 Has everybody got that? 00:50:31.751 --> 00:50:33.127 Miss Miller, do you have the larger set, 00:50:33.127 --> 00:50:34.877 the November 8th set? 00:50:38.503 --> 00:50:39.336 Okay. 00:50:42.554 --> 00:50:43.554 There we go. 00:50:52.699 --> 00:50:55.304 It's action item number two on that first page. 00:50:55.304 --> 00:50:57.564 Action item number two on the first page. 00:50:57.564 --> 00:50:58.963 Of that second set. 00:50:58.963 --> 00:51:00.938 (laughs) Which is a little... 00:51:00.938 --> 00:51:04.771 We have to weed through our papers here a lot. 00:51:06.255 --> 00:51:07.088 Okay. 00:51:07.088 --> 00:51:08.085 You there, everybody? 00:51:08.085 --> 00:51:08.918 Terrific. 00:51:08.918 --> 00:51:10.190 So this is on page two actually 00:51:10.190 --> 00:51:12.975 is where the recommendation is. 00:51:12.975 --> 00:51:15.614 And so it's recommended that the State Board of Education 00:51:15.614 --> 00:51:18.752 ratify the action of the board chair 00:51:18.752 --> 00:51:21.998 to grant a deadline extension for Kindle Hunt 00:51:21.998 --> 00:51:25.662 to provide the publisher's identification of factual errors 00:51:25.662 --> 00:51:27.495 and editorial changes. 00:51:30.050 --> 00:51:30.883 Okay, terrific. 00:51:30.883 --> 00:51:32.368 So the motion before us recommends 00:51:32.368 --> 00:51:34.494 the State Board of Education ratify the action 00:51:34.494 --> 00:51:38.197 of the Board Chair to grant the deadline extension 00:51:38.197 --> 00:51:42.191 for Kindle Hunt to provide the publisher's identification 00:51:42.191 --> 00:51:44.083 of factual errors and editorial changes. 00:51:44.083 --> 00:51:46.093 All those in favor, say aye? 00:51:46.093 --> 00:51:46.926 Aye. 00:51:46.926 --> 00:51:48.086 All those opposed? 00:51:48.086 --> 00:51:49.592 Motion carries. 00:51:49.592 --> 00:51:52.014 Okay, the next item is on the set of minutes 00:51:52.014 --> 00:51:56.181 from what would have been Wednesday, November the 8th. 00:51:57.638 --> 00:52:00.805 And it is on page two of that document, 00:52:02.404 --> 00:52:05.241 but actually I have a revised motion 00:52:05.241 --> 00:52:08.979 upon recommendation of our Parliamentarian and staff. 00:52:08.979 --> 00:52:13.096 So it is recommended that the State Board of Education 00:52:13.096 --> 00:52:17.724 require that the publisher of Surviving the Angel of Death: 00:52:17.724 --> 00:52:22.042 The True Story of a Mengele Twin in Auschwitz 00:52:22.042 --> 00:52:24.134 make corrections listed in the report 00:52:24.134 --> 00:52:27.523 of required corrections of factual errors, 00:52:27.523 --> 00:52:29.722 require that all instructional materials meet 00:52:29.722 --> 00:52:33.467 established manufacturing standards and specifications, 00:52:33.467 --> 00:52:37.180 approve changes and corrections submitted in response 00:52:37.180 --> 00:52:40.513 to written comments and public testimony, 00:52:40.513 --> 00:52:43.203 place instructional materials submitted for adoption 00:52:43.203 --> 00:52:46.118 on the adopted list as indicated on the list 00:52:46.118 --> 00:52:49.291 of instructional materials eligible for adoption 00:52:49.291 --> 00:52:51.291 under Proclamation 2018. 00:52:53.453 --> 00:52:56.103 So the motion before us is to recommend 00:52:56.103 --> 00:52:58.364 that the State Board of Education require the publisher 00:52:58.364 --> 00:52:59.797 of Surviving the Angel of Death: 00:52:59.797 --> 00:53:02.996 The True Story of a Mengele Twin in Auschwitz 00:53:02.996 --> 00:53:04.719 make corrections listed in the report 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:06.755 of required corrections and factual errors, 00:53:06.755 --> 00:53:08.686 require that all instructional materials 00:53:08.686 --> 00:53:10.895 meet established manufacturing standards 00:53:10.895 --> 00:53:13.987 and specifications, approve changes and corrections 00:53:13.987 --> 00:53:16.187 submitted in response to written comments 00:53:16.187 --> 00:53:19.184 and public testimony, place instructional materials 00:53:19.184 --> 00:53:21.079 submitted for adoption on the adopted list 00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:24.491 as indicated on the list of instructional materials eligible 00:53:24.491 --> 00:53:27.370 for adoption under Proclamation 2018. 00:53:27.370 --> 00:53:28.438 Oh, yes. 00:53:28.438 --> 00:53:29.423 Miss Hardy. 00:53:29.423 --> 00:53:30.531 I just have a question. 00:53:30.531 --> 00:53:34.045 Was the proclamation for textbooks 00:53:34.045 --> 00:53:36.360 or was it for supplemental materials? 00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:38.576 It was instructional materials. 00:53:38.576 --> 00:53:40.654 Instructional materials. 00:53:40.654 --> 00:53:42.623 Which we talked about that the other day 00:53:42.623 --> 00:53:46.449 as to what qualified as an instructional material. 00:53:46.449 --> 00:53:48.234 It's supplemental. 00:53:48.234 --> 00:53:49.965 All supplemental can be instructional-- 00:53:49.965 --> 00:53:50.957 Miss Martinez, can you? 00:53:50.957 --> 00:53:54.097 So anything that meets at least 50% 00:53:54.097 --> 00:53:56.835 of the Essential Knowledge and Skills would be eligible 00:53:56.835 --> 00:53:58.668 and this material did. 00:53:59.846 --> 00:54:03.682 Of course, as you know, the content that's being asked for 00:54:03.682 --> 00:54:06.032 in these very general courses is very, 00:54:06.032 --> 00:54:09.448 it's process skills more than anything else. 00:54:09.448 --> 00:54:10.865 It's not content. 00:54:12.264 --> 00:54:14.574 Any other questions? 00:54:14.574 --> 00:54:16.304 All those in favor say aye. 00:54:16.304 --> 00:54:17.137 Aye. 00:54:17.137 --> 00:54:18.185 All those opposed? 00:54:18.185 --> 00:54:19.435 No. 00:54:22.112 --> 00:54:24.334 The ayes carried, right? 00:54:24.334 --> 00:54:26.506 Or do we want to do a hand? 00:54:26.506 --> 00:54:28.397 Go ahead, we can do a count. 00:54:28.397 --> 00:54:29.230 Question. 00:54:29.230 --> 00:54:31.052 Yes, Mr. Bradley. 00:54:31.052 --> 00:54:34.719 I understand the will of some to recognize 00:54:36.217 --> 00:54:38.967 what is probably a very nice book 00:54:40.644 --> 00:54:44.979 and probably could easily find unanimous support 00:54:44.979 --> 00:54:47.991 on the board to recommend it to classrooms 00:54:47.991 --> 00:54:50.688 as a supplemental material. 00:54:50.688 --> 00:54:54.198 And it should be placed probably in every library. 00:54:54.198 --> 00:54:57.477 And we can start a list and come up with volumes 00:54:57.477 --> 00:54:59.480 of recommendations like that. 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:04.067 But to define this as a textbook under the guise 00:55:04.067 --> 00:55:06.544 of instructional material when our primary goal 00:55:06.544 --> 00:55:10.039 is textbooks, I'll defer to Miss Hardy 00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:12.674 or some of the instructional folks here on the board 00:55:12.674 --> 00:55:16.005 as to what they would use or what is appropriate 00:55:16.005 --> 00:55:18.082 or where the problems might lie. 00:55:18.082 --> 00:55:19.432 But you know, if we wanted to play havoc, 00:55:19.432 --> 00:55:21.685 we had a conversation the other day. 00:55:21.685 --> 00:55:26.055 Miss Martinez identified for me the cost administratively 00:55:26.055 --> 00:55:27.414 for each submission. 00:55:27.414 --> 00:55:30.305 Well, this was just one, but we had two. 00:55:30.305 --> 00:55:32.146 But when we get into other subject areas, 00:55:32.146 --> 00:55:34.353 we sometimes have dozens. 00:55:34.353 --> 00:55:37.157 And you have review panels and you have transportation costs 00:55:37.157 --> 00:55:40.336 and you have housing and you have administrative time. 00:55:40.336 --> 00:55:42.704 If someone really wanted to create havoc with this board 00:55:42.704 --> 00:55:43.838 under this initiative 00:55:43.838 --> 00:55:46.727 that we're kind of opening the door on, 00:55:46.727 --> 00:55:48.406 we might have... 00:55:48.406 --> 00:55:50.291 If I wanted to create havoc, 00:55:50.291 --> 00:55:53.495 I would submit the Encyclopedia Britannica 00:55:53.495 --> 00:55:57.582 and the Bible for every submission for every subject 00:55:57.582 --> 00:55:59.589 and for every course. 00:55:59.589 --> 00:56:01.391 And I bet after staff struggled through it, 00:56:01.391 --> 00:56:04.308 we could find 50% of the TEKS. 00:56:05.808 --> 00:56:07.225 Just my thoughts. 00:56:08.185 --> 00:56:09.272 Just throwing that out there, right? 00:56:09.272 --> 00:56:10.108 Thank you. 00:56:10.108 --> 00:56:11.481 (laughs) Mr. Rowley. 00:56:11.481 --> 00:56:14.510 Well, since he threw it out there, I'll respond. 00:56:14.510 --> 00:56:15.465 And I hope so. 00:56:15.465 --> 00:56:18.265 Yeah, and the call is for instructional materials. 00:56:18.265 --> 00:56:19.865 The call is not for textbooks. 00:56:19.865 --> 00:56:23.397 And so we're at a point now in our process 00:56:23.397 --> 00:56:27.147 and in the instructional methodology that is used 00:56:27.147 --> 00:56:30.628 that a number of resources could come forth 00:56:30.628 --> 00:56:34.697 that don't necessarily meet the definition 00:56:34.697 --> 00:56:38.269 of what we would call a typical textbook. 00:56:38.269 --> 00:56:40.828 What we're trying to do, I think, 00:56:40.828 --> 00:56:43.805 is to encourage publishers to use our process, 00:56:43.805 --> 00:56:45.598 not to discourage them. 00:56:45.598 --> 00:56:49.115 In fact, at a time when we see waning authority 00:56:49.115 --> 00:56:53.202 of this board, the textbook review process, to me, 00:56:53.202 --> 00:56:56.665 is one of the most important functions that we fulfill. 00:56:56.665 --> 00:57:00.832 And I don't want to have a chilling effect on publishers 00:57:02.954 --> 00:57:05.332 and discourage them from submitting their books. 00:57:05.332 --> 00:57:06.910 Whenever we say, well, this doesn't look like a textbook 00:57:06.910 --> 00:57:08.513 so we're gonna reject it. 00:57:08.513 --> 00:57:10.464 It met the TEKS, it was reviewed, 00:57:10.464 --> 00:57:15.102 the expert reviewers said it was satisfactory, 00:57:15.102 --> 00:57:16.545 and I think it serves a purpose, 00:57:16.545 --> 00:57:19.068 particularly when you're looking at special topics 00:57:19.068 --> 00:57:22.964 in Social Studies, which have broad TEKS 00:57:22.964 --> 00:57:26.216 and which gives the teacher broad discretion 00:57:26.216 --> 00:57:28.182 as to what type of instructional materials 00:57:28.182 --> 00:57:29.320 they're going to use. 00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:31.774 So that's why I voted in favor of it on Wednesday 00:57:31.774 --> 00:57:33.426 and will again today. 00:57:33.426 --> 00:57:34.926 Miss Perez-Diaz. 00:57:35.771 --> 00:57:37.194 Are you done? 00:57:37.194 --> 00:57:38.621 Okay, not repetitive. 00:57:38.621 --> 00:57:39.517 Thank you. 00:57:39.517 --> 00:57:41.101 (laughs) 00:57:41.101 --> 00:57:43.057 That's unlike our board members. 00:57:43.057 --> 00:57:46.657 Okay, Mr. Maynard, then Miss Hardy, and then Miss Perez. 00:57:46.657 --> 00:57:49.669 I'll just make it pretty brief. 00:57:49.669 --> 00:57:52.000 You know, and I hear what you're saying 00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:54.250 and I had the same concern. 00:57:56.806 --> 00:58:01.245 But the law tells us that instructional materials 00:58:01.245 --> 00:58:03.412 also include supplemental. 00:58:05.603 --> 00:58:07.146 And I don't think that we necessarily want 00:58:07.146 --> 00:58:09.574 to throw the door open to review, you know, 00:58:09.574 --> 00:58:11.741 The Diary of Anne Frank and all those kinds of things. 00:58:11.741 --> 00:58:14.305 However, in this particular circumstance, 00:58:14.305 --> 00:58:17.952 because of the course that the proclamation includes 00:58:17.952 --> 00:58:20.233 and it is so general, 00:58:20.233 --> 00:58:23.064 I think this is really a self-regulating thing 00:58:23.064 --> 00:58:26.938 because most supplemental materials that you reference 00:58:26.938 --> 00:58:28.719 would not meet 50% of the TEKS. 00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:30.715 In this particular instance, 00:58:30.715 --> 00:58:33.965 I think it's fine and it's not an issue 00:58:34.822 --> 00:58:36.917 and I don't think that it'll necessarily set a precedent 00:58:36.917 --> 00:58:38.492 moving forward. 00:58:38.492 --> 00:58:39.732 Miss Hardy. 00:58:39.732 --> 00:58:40.875 Not repetitive. 00:58:40.875 --> 00:58:43.362 I certainly hope it doesn't set a precedent. 00:58:43.362 --> 00:58:47.138 But the fact is, the reason that we changed the word 00:58:47.138 --> 00:58:48.638 from textbook to-- 00:58:49.790 --> 00:58:50.702 Instructional. 00:58:50.702 --> 00:58:54.979 Instructional materials was because of the change 00:58:54.979 --> 00:58:57.110 in using technology-- 00:58:57.110 --> 00:58:58.871 It was legislatively prescribed. 00:58:58.871 --> 00:58:59.704 Yes. 00:58:59.704 --> 00:59:02.391 And so it wasn't really to open the door 00:59:02.391 --> 00:59:06.720 for instructional materials supplementally, 00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:10.897 it was to open the door for the technology. 00:59:10.897 --> 00:59:14.227 So we go back to our original definition 00:59:14.227 --> 00:59:17.397 of what the proclamations were for, 00:59:17.397 --> 00:59:21.564 it was for textbooks, and then we had to go to technology. 00:59:23.307 --> 00:59:26.530 So that's why we changed the word to instructional materials 00:59:26.530 --> 00:59:29.030 not to supplemental materials. 00:59:30.669 --> 00:59:32.419 Miss Perez? 00:59:33.487 --> 00:59:36.436 Madam Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt. 00:59:36.436 --> 00:59:40.211 Would it be helpful for me to read the statutory definition 00:59:40.211 --> 00:59:41.294 of instructional materials? 00:59:41.294 --> 00:59:42.782 Yeah, actually it would. 00:59:42.782 --> 00:59:44.801 So instructional material means content 00:59:44.801 --> 00:59:48.093 that conveys the Essential Knowledge and Skills 00:59:48.093 --> 00:59:50.976 of a subject in the public school curriculum 00:59:50.976 --> 00:59:53.385 through a medium or a combination of media 00:59:53.385 --> 00:59:55.882 for conveying information to a student. 00:59:55.882 --> 00:59:59.674 The term includes a book, supplementary materials, 00:59:59.674 --> 01:00:01.718 a combination of a book, workbook, 01:00:01.718 --> 01:00:04.267 and supplementary materials, computer software, 01:00:04.267 --> 01:00:08.192 magnetic media, DVDs, CD-ROM, computer courseware, 01:00:08.192 --> 01:00:10.975 online services, or an electronic medium 01:00:10.975 --> 01:00:13.723 or other means of conveying information to the student 01:00:13.723 --> 01:00:16.733 or otherwise contributing to the learning process 01:00:16.733 --> 01:00:17.877 through electronic means, 01:00:17.877 --> 01:00:21.863 including open source instruction materials. 01:00:21.863 --> 01:00:22.867 Okay. 01:00:22.867 --> 01:00:24.534 Alright, Miss Perez. 01:00:27.798 --> 01:00:30.312 Calling for a textbook is one thing. 01:00:30.312 --> 01:00:32.177 But if we get into the business 01:00:32.177 --> 01:00:34.927 of proving supplemental material, 01:00:36.575 --> 01:00:38.635 I think it does set precedent 01:00:38.635 --> 01:00:43.492 and I think it is very dangerous to go down this path. 01:00:43.492 --> 01:00:47.242 I absolutely do not want to be part of a body 01:00:49.100 --> 01:00:50.688 that starts to tell teachers 01:00:50.688 --> 01:00:52.393 "You must run everything through us 01:00:52.393 --> 01:00:53.992 "before you bring supplemental material 01:00:53.992 --> 01:00:55.381 "into your classroom." 01:00:55.381 --> 01:00:57.997 Our teachers are well-educated, highly certified, 01:00:57.997 --> 01:01:01.201 and more than capable of determining 01:01:01.201 --> 01:01:02.798 what needs to be in their classrooms. 01:01:02.798 --> 01:01:06.534 And I do not, I discourage you greatly 01:01:06.534 --> 01:01:08.784 from setting this precedent 01:01:09.669 --> 01:01:12.113 of approving supplemental materials. 01:01:12.113 --> 01:01:13.901 And it has nothing to do with this book 01:01:13.901 --> 01:01:15.051 because it is a wonderful book 01:01:15.051 --> 01:01:17.334 and students should be reading it. 01:01:17.334 --> 01:01:19.450 But that is not for this body to determine, 01:01:19.450 --> 01:01:23.543 as it is a supplemental piece of literature. 01:01:23.543 --> 01:01:25.543 Yes, Mr. Byer. 01:01:26.452 --> 01:01:29.198 Just to make sure that the board is clear. 01:01:29.198 --> 01:01:32.862 The process for the approval of textbooks 01:01:32.862 --> 01:01:35.494 or instructional materials used to require, 01:01:35.494 --> 01:01:39.631 a district used to have to buy something off of your list. 01:01:39.631 --> 01:01:41.986 That is no longer true. 01:01:41.986 --> 01:01:45.609 So you approve instructional materials, 01:01:45.609 --> 01:01:48.037 the value add that you provide for school districts 01:01:48.037 --> 01:01:51.370 is you show clearly what TEKS it covers. 01:01:53.848 --> 01:01:56.631 You've asserted that it's free from factual errors. 01:01:56.631 --> 01:02:00.358 You have some type of process that you engage with it. 01:02:00.358 --> 01:02:03.681 But a school district is not in fact required 01:02:03.681 --> 01:02:05.736 to purchase anything off of your list. 01:02:05.736 --> 01:02:09.329 They're only required to submit a certification 01:02:09.329 --> 01:02:13.496 that they have materials that cover all of the TEKS. 01:02:15.704 --> 01:02:19.231 Any other discussion before we have the vote on this one? 01:02:19.231 --> 01:02:22.524 I'm gonna have a show of hands, and we'll do that. 01:02:22.524 --> 01:02:25.614 All those in favor of the motion before us, 01:02:25.614 --> 01:02:27.614 which is to recommend... 01:02:29.041 --> 01:02:30.038 I don't want to read all this again, 01:02:30.038 --> 01:02:32.489 I already read it twice, so (laughs). 01:02:32.489 --> 01:02:35.876 Surviving the Angel of Death is the book before us. 01:02:35.876 --> 01:02:38.876 All those in favor, raise your hand. 01:02:44.497 --> 01:02:47.414 All those opposed, raise your hand. 01:02:50.845 --> 01:02:51.715 Okay. 01:02:51.715 --> 01:02:54.814 Motion carries and the book is adopted. 01:02:54.814 --> 01:02:57.220 Alright, Mr. Rowley. 01:02:57.220 --> 01:02:59.789 Yes, and I was also told to read the following statement. 01:02:59.789 --> 01:03:02.397 Committee of the Full Board also took up consideration 01:03:02.397 --> 01:03:04.895 of the Mexican-American Studies Tool Kit 01:03:04.895 --> 01:03:06.804 but did not recommend adoption of that book 01:03:06.804 --> 01:03:10.471 and will therefore not be offering a motion. 01:03:12.505 --> 01:03:14.070 Ready to move on? 01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:15.568 Are we ready to move on? 01:03:15.568 --> 01:03:16.485 Mr. Cortez. 01:03:17.402 --> 01:03:18.928 I just want the record to reflect 01:03:18.928 --> 01:03:21.997 that I'm not in agreement with the statement. 01:03:21.997 --> 01:03:22.830 That the-- 01:03:24.028 --> 01:03:24.950 Can we note that? 01:03:24.950 --> 01:03:26.823 With the action. With the action. 01:03:26.823 --> 01:03:30.990 Can we note that somehow, Mr. Cortez? 01:03:32.074 --> 01:03:32.998 We can note that? 01:03:32.998 --> 01:03:33.831 Okay. 01:03:33.831 --> 01:03:35.222 Any other discussion on that? 01:03:35.222 --> 01:03:36.972 Yes, Miss Perez-Diaz. 01:03:38.823 --> 01:03:42.403 And this is just so that my position on this 01:03:42.403 --> 01:03:44.493 is made very clear. 01:03:44.493 --> 01:03:46.229 I'm gonna do my very best not to get emotional 01:03:46.229 --> 01:03:49.039 because this is very important for me. 01:03:49.039 --> 01:03:50.959 From the very beginning, I was a huge advocate 01:03:50.959 --> 01:03:54.407 to see a Mexican-American Studies course adopted 01:03:54.407 --> 01:03:56.314 by this body. 01:03:56.314 --> 01:03:58.118 I was on the losing end of that fight, 01:03:58.118 --> 01:04:00.118 and I wanted so badly... 01:04:01.113 --> 01:04:02.623 As a result, we came to a compromise 01:04:02.623 --> 01:04:07.257 to ask for a textbook or materials in ethnic studies 01:04:07.257 --> 01:04:10.243 that was gonna be high quality 01:04:10.243 --> 01:04:12.135 as an offering to our students in public schools 01:04:12.135 --> 01:04:13.660 because they deserve high quality. 01:04:13.660 --> 01:04:15.660 And so to see this book, 01:04:20.045 --> 01:04:22.207 that we didn't have the proper amount of time 01:04:22.207 --> 01:04:25.290 to allow the publisher to go in depth 01:04:26.197 --> 01:04:29.825 with what I know was well-intentioned, 01:04:29.825 --> 01:04:32.745 I can't with good conscience go against the experts 01:04:32.745 --> 01:04:36.354 who reviewed this who are subject matter experts 01:04:36.354 --> 01:04:39.714 in this field who have prided themselves on this work. 01:04:39.714 --> 01:04:41.562 And so, you know, for that reason, 01:04:41.562 --> 01:04:43.512 this has been a very difficult decision for me 01:04:43.512 --> 01:04:46.973 because as a Mexican-American woman, 01:04:46.973 --> 01:04:48.603 who has Latino children in school, 01:04:48.603 --> 01:04:51.972 I want to see the success of Mexican-American Studies 01:04:51.972 --> 01:04:53.472 in K-12 education. 01:04:55.153 --> 01:05:00.092 And so I want the absolute best in front of our students. 01:05:00.092 --> 01:05:04.259 I wouldn't vote in favor for a mediocre core content area, 01:05:05.916 --> 01:05:07.557 subject matter material, 01:05:07.557 --> 01:05:11.333 and so I wanted high quality for this MAS book, 01:05:11.333 --> 01:05:13.006 and I think that there are still avenues 01:05:13.006 --> 01:05:16.756 that we can go and seek out quality material, 01:05:20.397 --> 01:05:23.177 working with our experts who have been friends and allies 01:05:23.177 --> 01:05:26.887 in this fight for the last several years. 01:05:26.887 --> 01:05:29.211 And so I just want the record to reflect 01:05:29.211 --> 01:05:32.711 that this vote today is not a vote against 01:05:35.905 --> 01:05:37.568 this subject. 01:05:37.568 --> 01:05:40.943 It is a vote in favor of high quality in this subject 01:05:40.943 --> 01:05:43.903 because that's what our students deserve across Texas. 01:05:43.903 --> 01:05:48.742 So it was a very difficult decision for me to come to 01:05:48.742 --> 01:05:51.575 but I wanted that to be reflected. 01:05:53.250 --> 01:05:55.000 Any other comments? 01:05:57.444 --> 01:06:00.271 I would just like to say that, you know, 01:06:00.271 --> 01:06:02.915 I just want to make sure that it's clear. 01:06:02.915 --> 01:06:06.078 In the spring of 2014, and I actually asked staff 01:06:06.078 --> 01:06:08.070 to check on this, because my recollection is 01:06:08.070 --> 01:06:09.597 that we had put 01:06:09.597 --> 01:06:13.514 the Mexican-American Studies course development 01:06:14.540 --> 01:06:18.707 on our wish list, if you will, of courses to be developed. 01:06:20.684 --> 01:06:24.851 And I looked to see, okay, so I know at that time, 01:06:25.952 --> 01:06:29.191 if you'll remember, House Bill 5 had been passed 01:06:29.191 --> 01:06:33.699 and we had a lot of required things by the legislature, 01:06:33.699 --> 01:06:36.328 courses that we had to develop. 01:06:36.328 --> 01:06:41.321 And so I looked back just to see what was on the list 01:06:41.321 --> 01:06:43.120 that we ended up having to do. 01:06:43.120 --> 01:06:46.362 In addition to the Career and Technical courses, 01:06:46.362 --> 01:06:48.609 as you recall, remember, we went through that big revision. 01:06:48.609 --> 01:06:50.109 277 courses there. 01:06:50.955 --> 01:06:53.766 English and Spanish Language Arts, complete rewrite 01:06:53.766 --> 01:06:57.430 that took us two years to get through. 01:06:57.430 --> 01:06:59.489 We also had the Science streamlining, you know, 01:06:59.489 --> 01:07:00.322 since this time. 01:07:00.322 --> 01:07:02.370 I'm just talking through just the things that were 01:07:02.370 --> 01:07:03.786 on our schedule. 01:07:03.786 --> 01:07:06.755 In addition, we had legislatively-required courses 01:07:06.755 --> 01:07:10.016 that we needed to do, Personal Financial Literacy, 01:07:10.016 --> 01:07:14.279 two courses in that, half credit and a credit. 01:07:14.279 --> 01:07:17.136 We had Algebraic Reasoning, Statistics, 01:07:17.136 --> 01:07:18.470 and Financial Analysis. 01:07:18.470 --> 01:07:20.751 Or it was the Financial Accounting course 01:07:20.751 --> 01:07:23.017 that became Financial Analysis. 01:07:23.017 --> 01:07:27.184 Those were all courses that we had on our list to develop 01:07:28.263 --> 01:07:31.208 above the wish list, if you will, 01:07:31.208 --> 01:07:32.763 for the Mexican-American Studies book. 01:07:32.763 --> 01:07:36.854 So it's been on our list to develop since 2014. 01:07:36.854 --> 01:07:38.987 So I just want to make sure that that's clear 01:07:38.987 --> 01:07:42.583 because the record will reflect that. 01:07:42.583 --> 01:07:47.089 In addition, we had a discussion back in June of this year 01:07:47.089 --> 01:07:50.654 that reprioritized our list of developments. 01:07:50.654 --> 01:07:53.566 And again, the discussion was held 01:07:53.566 --> 01:07:56.691 that the Mexican-American Studies course 01:07:56.691 --> 01:07:59.559 would look to the HSID innovative course 01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:02.976 which is now approved by the Commissioner 01:08:03.850 --> 01:08:06.072 as a possible starting point. 01:08:06.072 --> 01:08:08.294 We put it in parentheses if I'm remembering right, 01:08:08.294 --> 01:08:10.456 Miss Martinez, on the list 01:08:10.456 --> 01:08:12.757 because of that discussion about the innovative course. 01:08:12.757 --> 01:08:15.971 We actually have the innovative course in parentheses 01:08:15.971 --> 01:08:20.285 to indicate that we would, with the board's direction, 01:08:20.285 --> 01:08:22.493 possibly use the innovative course as a starting point 01:08:22.493 --> 01:08:24.256 for that course. 01:08:24.256 --> 01:08:27.184 And Miss Martinez, the other day you discussed with us, 01:08:27.184 --> 01:08:29.275 and I want to make sure I'm reflecting this correctly, 01:08:29.275 --> 01:08:30.731 that within the next two years, 01:08:30.731 --> 01:08:33.923 you could see the development. 01:08:33.923 --> 01:08:34.756 Is that correct? 01:08:34.756 --> 01:08:35.863 Of a course. 01:08:35.863 --> 01:08:37.513 That's what we anticipate. 01:08:37.513 --> 01:08:38.867 That's what you anticipate. 01:08:38.867 --> 01:08:42.666 I believe it's the will of this body to get that done. 01:08:42.666 --> 01:08:47.296 And if anybody else, I can say it's a common sentiment 01:08:47.296 --> 01:08:49.350 felt around this table. 01:08:49.350 --> 01:08:51.884 And so is there anybody that would like to say? 01:08:51.884 --> 01:08:54.017 I mean, these are my thoughts and I just want to make sure 01:08:54.017 --> 01:08:55.889 if anybody would like to chime in on that. 01:08:55.889 --> 01:08:57.454 Yes, Mr. Allen. 01:08:57.454 --> 01:09:01.182 In about two weeks, we'll be gathering in HISD 01:09:01.182 --> 01:09:04.022 for the kickoff brainstorming 01:09:04.022 --> 01:09:06.623 for the Asian-American Studies course. 01:09:06.623 --> 01:09:08.602 Oh, so they're gonna submit it in innovative? 01:09:08.602 --> 01:09:10.460 That's the kickoff conversation 01:09:10.460 --> 01:09:12.767 about the Asian-American Studies course. 01:09:12.767 --> 01:09:17.141 And so these are types of courses and materials 01:09:17.141 --> 01:09:18.585 are not going away. 01:09:18.585 --> 01:09:21.170 And I think it's important that we take a lead 01:09:21.170 --> 01:09:24.060 in understanding that it's only going to grow 01:09:24.060 --> 01:09:28.101 and that we not wait on Houston or anybody else 01:09:28.101 --> 01:09:29.307 to lead us. 01:09:29.307 --> 01:09:30.286 We need to lead this. 01:09:30.286 --> 01:09:33.096 Because the sentiment is out there in the community, 01:09:33.096 --> 01:09:34.972 and we just need to address it. 01:09:34.972 --> 01:09:37.070 And by using the system that we have, 01:09:37.070 --> 01:09:40.280 we will have the best product available to our students. 01:09:40.280 --> 01:09:42.655 And again, as we sit down and begin to talk 01:09:42.655 --> 01:09:45.583 about these types of courses, there are other groups 01:09:45.583 --> 01:09:48.209 that are rising in terms of their religious beliefs 01:09:48.209 --> 01:09:52.764 and looking at framing it in the way of American study, 01:09:52.764 --> 01:09:57.149 and we just need to get out front and be the leader on that. 01:09:57.149 --> 01:09:59.367 Yes, Miss Beltran? 01:09:59.367 --> 01:10:00.303 Madam Chair, thank you. 01:10:00.303 --> 01:10:02.931 And thank you to the rest of my colleagues who have spoken 01:10:02.931 --> 01:10:04.685 on this issue. 01:10:04.685 --> 01:10:07.071 I think one of the lessons learned 01:10:07.071 --> 01:10:10.803 that I would like to reflect, for all of us to reflect on, 01:10:10.803 --> 01:10:14.970 is just the, I would say that Miss Perez-Diaz's comments 01:10:17.277 --> 01:10:19.444 resonated with me as well. 01:10:20.383 --> 01:10:24.792 And I thought a lot about what this vote would communicate 01:10:24.792 --> 01:10:26.968 to our community and my community in particular, 01:10:26.968 --> 01:10:28.983 the Mexican-American community, 01:10:28.983 --> 01:10:31.126 but also other communities of color 01:10:31.126 --> 01:10:34.311 whose stories are often not told and not valued 01:10:34.311 --> 01:10:37.333 in our curriculum and in our textbooks. 01:10:37.333 --> 01:10:39.071 And as I reflect on this conversation, 01:10:39.071 --> 01:10:41.216 I think one of the things that stands out to me 01:10:41.216 --> 01:10:45.383 is just the amount of time that it takes to do this work. 01:10:47.569 --> 01:10:51.778 And I hope that in reflecting on that conversation, 01:10:51.778 --> 01:10:53.098 you guys started this conversation 01:10:53.098 --> 01:10:55.451 before I was even elected to this body (laughs). 01:10:55.451 --> 01:10:56.808 We did. 01:10:56.808 --> 01:10:58.639 And here I am three years into the work, 01:10:58.639 --> 01:11:00.145 and we still don't have anything. 01:11:00.145 --> 01:11:03.820 And so I hope that, to Mr. Allen's point, 01:11:03.820 --> 01:11:07.282 that we start taking these conversations more seriously, 01:11:07.282 --> 01:11:11.623 and that we start really valuing these kinds of courses 01:11:11.623 --> 01:11:13.210 and giving them the time and attention 01:11:13.210 --> 01:11:15.610 that they really deserve by creating specific TEKS 01:11:15.610 --> 01:11:17.029 as we move forward. 01:11:17.029 --> 01:11:19.980 I think that's what we've committed to do 01:11:19.980 --> 01:11:22.016 on this particular area of study, 01:11:22.016 --> 01:11:25.146 of Mexican-American Studies, and I think that 01:11:25.146 --> 01:11:28.285 the hard part about this for me is just looking 01:11:28.285 --> 01:11:32.118 at the amount of time that has had to progress 01:11:34.587 --> 01:11:35.486 just to get here. 01:11:35.486 --> 01:11:38.025 And so I hope that we take that as a lesson learned 01:11:38.025 --> 01:11:40.269 in moving forward and making sure that we're giving 01:11:40.269 --> 01:11:44.436 this content area the time and attention it so deserves. 01:11:46.904 --> 01:11:48.512 Mr. Bradley. 01:11:48.512 --> 01:11:52.679 Well, I would like to echo the comments of Dr. Allen there 01:11:53.941 --> 01:11:57.771 with them taking the lead to pursue the Asian 01:11:57.771 --> 01:12:01.141 and while there's current submit to do the Mexican-American, 01:12:01.141 --> 01:12:04.769 let's not leave out, you know, the African-American, 01:12:04.769 --> 01:12:08.769 the Italians, the Spanish, the Native Americans. 01:12:11.604 --> 01:12:14.838 A couple of us Irish and French backgrounds. 01:12:14.838 --> 01:12:17.338 So my question is, to be fair, 01:12:19.572 --> 01:12:21.147 do we want to develop 01:12:21.147 --> 01:12:24.647 12 different multicultural study programs, 01:12:25.826 --> 01:12:29.953 identifying each for a specific culture and background 01:12:29.953 --> 01:12:34.120 or will TEKS be written that can be used across all lines? 01:12:36.270 --> 01:12:37.437 TEKS are TEKS. 01:12:39.387 --> 01:12:42.829 Let's not limit it and then have the next set of folks 01:12:42.829 --> 01:12:45.654 at the podium demanding their own, you know. 01:12:45.654 --> 01:12:48.321 Let's try to encompass everyone. 01:12:51.708 --> 01:12:55.397 Yeah, I believe even Dr. Garcia (laughs), 01:12:55.397 --> 01:12:58.314 maybe she'd like that, Senator Garcia. 01:12:58.314 --> 01:13:01.036 Senator Garcia even had a bill last legislative session, 01:13:01.036 --> 01:13:05.861 if I'm not mistaken it was a multiethnic course, 01:13:05.861 --> 01:13:06.694 required course? 01:13:06.694 --> 01:13:09.124 Am I remembering this correctly? 01:13:09.124 --> 01:13:10.699 Let's not discriminate. 01:13:10.699 --> 01:13:13.663 Yeah, and so that was the suggestion by her. 01:13:13.663 --> 01:13:16.139 It never did pass the body, but it was a suggestion 01:13:16.139 --> 01:13:19.389 to do a multiethnic course development. 01:13:20.229 --> 01:13:22.377 And so the board's gonna need to make a decision. 01:13:22.377 --> 01:13:26.294 Right now, we do have the Mexican-American Studies course 01:13:26.294 --> 01:13:28.778 slated to be worked on. 01:13:28.778 --> 01:13:30.097 Okay, thank you. 01:13:30.097 --> 01:13:31.752 Yeah, absolutely. 01:13:31.752 --> 01:13:33.085 Yes, Mr. Cortez. 01:13:34.577 --> 01:13:36.508 I'm not gonna relitigate it 01:13:36.508 --> 01:13:40.675 because it's a very frustrating topic for me at this point. 01:13:41.738 --> 01:13:44.817 While I try to choose to believe I have a short memory 01:13:44.817 --> 01:13:49.047 and when I leave here, I kind of try not to take any 01:13:49.047 --> 01:13:51.325 of the sometimes animosity that builds up 01:13:51.325 --> 01:13:53.465 when we have this conversation, 01:13:53.465 --> 01:13:56.966 it is very frustrating for me to hear 01:13:56.966 --> 01:14:00.133 some of the rhetoric around the table. 01:14:04.050 --> 01:14:08.217 All I will say is that I did appreciate the conversation 01:14:09.474 --> 01:14:12.529 that I had with you earlier this week 01:14:12.529 --> 01:14:16.696 and with Member Ellis with respect to possible agenda item 01:14:18.821 --> 01:14:21.877 for January's meeting on this very topic 01:14:21.877 --> 01:14:26.044 dealing with the innovative course that Houston ISD has. 01:14:27.965 --> 01:14:32.132 I think staff has expressed interest in us giving them 01:14:33.095 --> 01:14:36.136 formal direction to begin this process. 01:14:36.136 --> 01:14:40.991 And absent all of our speeches and all of our concerns, 01:14:40.991 --> 01:14:43.856 I mean, for me, it was simple. 01:14:43.856 --> 01:14:46.322 I can tell you I'm a product of two migrant parents 01:14:46.322 --> 01:14:47.893 and a product of my birth. 01:14:47.893 --> 01:14:49.678 My mother marched with Cesar Chavez 01:14:49.678 --> 01:14:53.670 and that one instance in her life shaped her 01:14:53.670 --> 01:14:56.157 and helped model who I am today. 01:14:56.157 --> 01:15:00.299 And so we all have our reasons why we want what we want 01:15:00.299 --> 01:15:02.875 but I'm not gonna sit here and relitigate the whole thing, 01:15:02.875 --> 01:15:07.798 other than to implore you to make sure it's on an agenda 01:15:07.798 --> 01:15:09.481 in January. 01:15:09.481 --> 01:15:12.231 And if you wanna go down the vein 01:15:13.191 --> 01:15:16.059 that Mr. Bradley mentioned, I would suggest 01:15:16.059 --> 01:15:18.163 that you make separate agenda items 01:15:18.163 --> 01:15:19.740 because one, we're not posted 01:15:19.740 --> 01:15:22.720 for that particular discussion, we're posted for this, 01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:24.848 and we're discussing this. 01:15:24.848 --> 01:15:28.431 And so I'm gonna hold you to those comments 01:15:29.849 --> 01:15:32.933 about having a substantive conversation 01:15:32.933 --> 01:15:35.804 about moving forward in January. 01:15:35.804 --> 01:15:37.300 And that's all I'll say on this topic. 01:15:37.300 --> 01:15:39.111 Okay, so speaking of posting, 01:15:39.111 --> 01:15:41.653 (laughs) we're not posted for this. 01:15:41.653 --> 01:15:43.996 Our discussion, it is a discussion, you're right. 01:15:43.996 --> 01:15:46.209 And we're talking about this book specifically 01:15:46.209 --> 01:15:50.376 because that's actually the topic on the agenda. 01:15:51.839 --> 01:15:54.874 But I think your point is well taken, Mr. Cortez, 01:15:54.874 --> 01:15:58.041 and I plan to direct staff to add that 01:15:59.676 --> 01:16:02.536 to the January agenda for formal discussion 01:16:02.536 --> 01:16:04.639 on that particular topic. 01:16:04.639 --> 01:16:06.233 Okay, any other-- 01:16:06.233 --> 01:16:07.150 Miss Hardy. 01:16:08.482 --> 01:16:09.649 If it's quick. 01:16:10.636 --> 01:16:13.802 I simply want to say that the State Board of Education 01:16:13.802 --> 01:16:17.719 and staff, 20 years ago, came up with a process 01:16:22.033 --> 01:16:26.200 so that any ethnic group, any teacher, any school district, 01:16:28.749 --> 01:16:31.765 can develop whatever they darn well please 01:16:31.765 --> 01:16:34.098 in regard to ethnic studies. 01:16:36.035 --> 01:16:38.358 And they have been done in the past. 01:16:38.358 --> 01:16:42.228 And it is well done by the teachers who decide 01:16:42.228 --> 01:16:44.874 in their hearts that's what they want to do. 01:16:44.874 --> 01:16:46.920 So in an area of the state 01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:50.006 where we have a large Asian community, 01:16:50.006 --> 01:16:52.252 they should be able to develop that. 01:16:52.252 --> 01:16:56.052 If you want to, if the people have had the opportunities 01:16:56.052 --> 01:16:59.468 to develop Indian studies in certain areas of the state, 01:16:59.468 --> 01:17:02.577 like El Paso area, if they want to do that. 01:17:02.577 --> 01:17:06.744 In my particular case, I developed a Worldwide Issues 01:17:07.950 --> 01:17:10.138 that probably would curl most of your toes 01:17:10.138 --> 01:17:12.438 if you had to read the books I had the students reading 01:17:12.438 --> 01:17:14.003 for that course. 01:17:14.003 --> 01:17:18.052 But we have the freedom because of the way 01:17:18.052 --> 01:17:20.440 we have set up our Social Studies standards 01:17:20.440 --> 01:17:23.587 with this innovative course study. 01:17:23.587 --> 01:17:26.504 I say for the people to get in gear 01:17:29.836 --> 01:17:34.003 and do what they want to do just like Houston ISD did, 01:17:35.667 --> 01:17:39.681 and I must say, Houston ISD did an extremely good job. 01:17:39.681 --> 01:17:41.372 You've heard me say that. 01:17:41.372 --> 01:17:45.480 They took the breakdown of the standards 01:17:45.480 --> 01:17:48.116 of how we do a Social Studies course 01:17:48.116 --> 01:17:52.761 and had the Mexican-American Studies course match 01:17:52.761 --> 01:17:53.837 that breakdown. 01:17:53.837 --> 01:17:58.251 So it's not just one's political views or whatever. 01:17:58.251 --> 01:18:01.334 But the way the course is designed is 01:18:02.176 --> 01:18:05.719 you could take whatever you wanted out of that course 01:18:05.719 --> 01:18:06.580 and use. 01:18:06.580 --> 01:18:08.935 When you start coming up with the TEKS, 01:18:08.935 --> 01:18:13.316 then the expectation is it has to be taught exactly that way 01:18:13.316 --> 01:18:16.870 which as a teacher you might want to do 01:18:16.870 --> 01:18:21.493 just simply 20th Century Mexican-American Studies, 01:18:21.493 --> 01:18:24.821 and that gives you a framework from which you can start 01:18:24.821 --> 01:18:25.982 your study. 01:18:25.982 --> 01:18:29.572 But the fact is, all of this stuff has been available, 01:18:29.572 --> 01:18:33.902 and it's a lack on the part of school districts 01:18:33.902 --> 01:18:36.667 if they wanted it that they haven't done it. 01:18:36.667 --> 01:18:38.068 Or the lack on the part of the teachers. 01:18:38.068 --> 01:18:40.172 And don't tell me it costs a lot of money 01:18:40.172 --> 01:18:42.272 because it doesn't cost that much money 01:18:42.272 --> 01:18:44.960 because I did it locally myself. 01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:45.793 Thank you. 01:18:45.793 --> 01:18:47.767 To go through the innovative process. 01:18:47.767 --> 01:18:48.910 To go through the innovative process 01:18:48.910 --> 01:18:49.743 that we've got on the website, 01:18:49.743 --> 01:18:51.339 which you can go to the TEA website 01:18:51.339 --> 01:18:54.989 and just type in "innovative course." 01:18:54.989 --> 01:18:56.352 So anyway. 01:18:56.352 --> 01:18:59.685 Yes, Dr. Ellis and then Miss Perez-Diaz. 01:19:00.608 --> 01:19:01.549 I would build off the point 01:19:01.549 --> 01:19:02.739 that Member Allen talked about, 01:19:02.739 --> 01:19:04.620 the fact that the State Board of Education 01:19:04.620 --> 01:19:06.573 should take this leap and I would add to it. 01:19:06.573 --> 01:19:09.021 And I had a conversation with staff also 01:19:09.021 --> 01:19:11.297 about the funding it takes to do that 01:19:11.297 --> 01:19:13.080 and therefore lack of. 01:19:13.080 --> 01:19:14.781 And I just want people to understand 01:19:14.781 --> 01:19:17.300 the State Board of Education does not set our budget. 01:19:17.300 --> 01:19:19.278 You know, this is not a limitation that we have set 01:19:19.278 --> 01:19:23.606 on ourselves, it's a limitation that's set for us. 01:19:23.606 --> 01:19:26.427 And the process about the Mexican-American class 01:19:26.427 --> 01:19:29.626 has an innovative guideline already there, 01:19:29.626 --> 01:19:32.112 which I was told by staff would make this process-- 01:19:32.112 --> 01:19:33.534 A lot faster and a lot less expensive. 01:19:33.534 --> 01:19:34.624 Attainable. 01:19:34.624 --> 01:19:36.246 And my point that I would like to make, 01:19:36.246 --> 01:19:38.466 if there are other groups out there 01:19:38.466 --> 01:19:41.241 that are interested in this, what Member Hardy said, 01:19:41.241 --> 01:19:42.361 if they would go through 01:19:42.361 --> 01:19:44.514 and get an innovative course approved, 01:19:44.514 --> 01:19:46.565 that would make it easier on us 01:19:46.565 --> 01:19:48.481 because of the financial constraints that are placed 01:19:48.481 --> 01:19:50.814 upon us to have that happen. 01:19:52.161 --> 01:19:52.994 Absolutely. 01:19:52.994 --> 01:19:54.648 Miss Perez-Diaz. 01:19:54.648 --> 01:19:55.481 Thank you. 01:19:55.481 --> 01:19:58.152 And I think that the situation we find ourselves in 01:19:58.152 --> 01:20:00.068 is because there isn't a set set of standards 01:20:00.068 --> 01:20:01.681 to build off of. 01:20:01.681 --> 01:20:04.740 The quality curriculum is going to vary 01:20:04.740 --> 01:20:08.156 from district to district, which is where my concern lies. 01:20:08.156 --> 01:20:10.111 If we have a standard set 01:20:10.111 --> 01:20:11.973 for what Mexican-American Studies should be, 01:20:11.973 --> 01:20:14.066 and I think that building off of the Houston ISD model 01:20:14.066 --> 01:20:17.483 is a great start, but we wouldn't do this 01:20:19.553 --> 01:20:21.011 for any other subject matter. 01:20:21.011 --> 01:20:25.178 We wouldn't allow a Math standard to be willy nilly 01:20:26.380 --> 01:20:27.930 and every district decides what's important 01:20:27.930 --> 01:20:29.101 and what's not important. 01:20:29.101 --> 01:20:31.758 If we set a standard for what's important to teach 01:20:31.758 --> 01:20:34.378 in Mexican-American Studies, then that allows 01:20:34.378 --> 01:20:37.990 the opportunity for schools to learn something consistent, 01:20:37.990 --> 01:20:41.451 substantive, and fruitful for our students. 01:20:41.451 --> 01:20:44.015 And I think that that's what we're trying to accomplish 01:20:44.015 --> 01:20:45.875 in requesting a formal course. 01:20:45.875 --> 01:20:48.821 And so I stand with Member Cortez 01:20:48.821 --> 01:20:52.190 and I also implore that we follow through 01:20:52.190 --> 01:20:53.601 with this agenda item in January 01:20:53.601 --> 01:20:57.571 because that's what we want to see happen. 01:20:57.571 --> 01:21:01.186 Okay, members, we really are... 01:21:01.186 --> 01:21:02.738 Point of order. 01:21:02.738 --> 01:21:03.719 It is important to say-- 01:21:03.719 --> 01:21:04.860 Point of order. 01:21:04.860 --> 01:21:05.693 Yeah. 01:21:05.693 --> 01:21:06.654 I do think-- 01:21:06.654 --> 01:21:07.879 We are going to have this in January. 01:21:07.879 --> 01:21:09.216 It is going to be on the topic. 01:21:09.216 --> 01:21:12.052 We can continue, we can talk about it then 01:21:12.052 --> 01:21:13.966 is what I'm trying to say, when it's actually posted 01:21:13.966 --> 01:21:15.478 for that specific conversation about-- 01:21:15.478 --> 01:21:16.688 Okay, move on. 01:21:16.688 --> 01:21:17.909 Future for its development. 01:21:17.909 --> 01:21:21.013 So if there's no objection, I'm gonna move on 01:21:21.013 --> 01:21:25.768 to the next agenda item, if that sounds good to everyone. 01:21:25.768 --> 01:21:28.297 Which would be action item three 01:21:28.297 --> 01:21:31.380 on your committee full board minutes. 01:21:34.671 --> 01:21:38.041 And it's actually the motion appears on page four 01:21:38.041 --> 01:21:39.458 of that document. 01:21:43.101 --> 01:21:46.073 And this pertains to proposed amendments in 19 TAC, 01:21:46.073 --> 01:21:49.073 Chapter 74, Curriculum Requirements. 01:21:50.231 --> 01:21:52.249 It's recommended that the State Board of Education 01:21:52.249 --> 01:21:55.186 approve for first reading and filing authorization 01:21:55.186 --> 01:21:58.585 proposed amendments to 19 TAC, Chapter 74, 01:21:58.585 --> 01:22:01.468 Curriculum Requirements, Subchapter B, 01:22:01.468 --> 01:22:04.726 Graduation Requirements, as amended. 01:22:04.726 --> 01:22:05.759 Madam Chair? 01:22:05.759 --> 01:22:06.706 Yes. 01:22:06.706 --> 01:22:07.759 I'm sorry, did we miss something? 01:22:07.759 --> 01:22:10.378 Before you take the vote, I did want to explain 01:22:10.378 --> 01:22:12.929 the handout that is being distributed. 01:22:12.929 --> 01:22:13.927 Oh, yes. 01:22:13.927 --> 01:22:18.094 And to share with you some information we discovered 01:22:20.409 --> 01:22:22.278 late yesterday evening. 01:22:22.278 --> 01:22:24.392 So I'm gonna start with an apology 01:22:24.392 --> 01:22:26.741 because this is something that we should have thought 01:22:26.741 --> 01:22:30.907 to check sooner versus later, but we did discover. 01:22:30.907 --> 01:22:35.119 So let me start by saying what we just distributed, 01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:37.057 we said we would come up with some language 01:22:37.057 --> 01:22:40.779 to address the issue of students meeting 01:22:40.779 --> 01:22:44.630 the two different requirements for the AP Computer Science A 01:22:44.630 --> 01:22:47.237 and the IB Computer Science higher level. 01:22:47.237 --> 01:22:50.542 And so the highlighted language would be 01:22:50.542 --> 01:22:53.887 what we would recommend including in the proposal 01:22:53.887 --> 01:22:56.135 that we'll file for first reading. 01:22:56.135 --> 01:22:58.028 What I wanted to share with you is 01:22:58.028 --> 01:23:03.017 that when we went back and looked at the essential knowledge 01:23:03.017 --> 01:23:04.488 and skills. 01:23:04.488 --> 01:23:08.308 So recall, one of your items, we looked at Subchapter D 01:23:08.308 --> 01:23:10.711 for several subject areas. 01:23:10.711 --> 01:23:13.685 We had some conversations around the amount of credit. 01:23:13.685 --> 01:23:16.396 In Chapter 126, Technology Applications, 01:23:16.396 --> 01:23:20.474 we have not yet eliminated range of credit, 01:23:20.474 --> 01:23:22.727 so that's an issue that will need to be addressed. 01:23:22.727 --> 01:23:25.153 But what I wanted to specifically point out 01:23:25.153 --> 01:23:27.830 is that right now you allow AP Computer Science 01:23:27.830 --> 01:23:30.140 to earn one to two credits. 01:23:30.140 --> 01:23:33.002 You allow International Baccalaureate Computer Science, 01:23:33.002 --> 01:23:36.620 higher level, to satisfy one to two credits. 01:23:36.620 --> 01:23:38.718 Based on the conversation 01:23:38.718 --> 01:23:40.814 and the first set of recommendations, 01:23:40.814 --> 01:23:43.783 I anticipate that the IB higher level course 01:23:43.783 --> 01:23:47.719 will come back with a recommendation of two credits. 01:23:47.719 --> 01:23:50.514 At some point, hopefully in the very near future, 01:23:50.514 --> 01:23:52.647 we will ask you to make a determination 01:23:52.647 --> 01:23:56.104 on AP Computer Science A to either choose one 01:23:56.104 --> 01:23:57.673 or two credits. 01:23:57.673 --> 01:24:00.500 But given that this has been part of the conversation 01:24:00.500 --> 01:24:04.333 around satisfying the requirements, right now, 01:24:05.409 --> 01:24:09.021 students can actually earn two credits. 01:24:09.021 --> 01:24:12.145 So if you choose to leave that at two credits, 01:24:12.145 --> 01:24:14.874 then they satisfy each of the two requirements, 01:24:14.874 --> 01:24:18.038 and they do get the two credits. 01:24:18.038 --> 01:24:21.763 So I just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware. 01:24:21.763 --> 01:24:22.845 I know that there was some concern 01:24:22.845 --> 01:24:25.620 about students satisfying both requirements, 01:24:25.620 --> 01:24:28.282 earning two credits, and they can in fact already do that. 01:24:28.282 --> 01:24:30.894 Yeah, so let's keep those two credits there, 01:24:30.894 --> 01:24:34.000 it sounds like to me is part of this. 01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:35.291 We need to make that decision? 01:24:35.291 --> 01:24:36.124 Is that what you're asking? 01:24:36.124 --> 01:24:38.248 You don't, you don't need to make that decision. 01:24:38.248 --> 01:24:40.665 But what I wanted to point out is in the language 01:24:40.665 --> 01:24:44.814 that is highlighted, it explains satisfying 01:24:44.814 --> 01:24:46.365 the two requirements. 01:24:46.365 --> 01:24:48.879 So we were going to take that additional step 01:24:48.879 --> 01:24:51.486 of saying it only earns one credit, 01:24:51.486 --> 01:24:53.234 but we didn't feel like we could do that 01:24:53.234 --> 01:24:56.183 with another rule that would contradict that. 01:24:56.183 --> 01:24:59.965 So that's not to say you can't decide to decrease it 01:24:59.965 --> 01:25:04.132 to one credit, but if you go with the higher of the two 01:25:08.643 --> 01:25:11.303 that is currently allowable, then you wouldn't need 01:25:11.303 --> 01:25:13.525 that additional language that says they can only earn 01:25:13.525 --> 01:25:14.442 one credit. 01:25:15.986 --> 01:25:16.923 You lost me. 01:25:16.923 --> 01:25:18.766 I lost you. 01:25:18.766 --> 01:25:20.916 Okay, let me try one more time. 01:25:20.916 --> 01:25:22.358 So right now... 01:25:22.358 --> 01:25:24.190 Okay, let me start with IB. 01:25:24.190 --> 01:25:26.681 Yesterday we talked about all of those IB courses, 01:25:26.681 --> 01:25:29.069 you had testimony that encouraged you 01:25:29.069 --> 01:25:31.016 to make everything two credits. 01:25:31.016 --> 01:25:34.493 You had staff recommendations that, for the most part, 01:25:34.493 --> 01:25:37.762 recommended higher level courses earn two credits. 01:25:37.762 --> 01:25:42.088 So if we are keeping consistent with that, 01:25:42.088 --> 01:25:45.322 what we anticipate is we would likely recommend 01:25:45.322 --> 01:25:49.934 the IB Computer Science higher level be a two credit course. 01:25:49.934 --> 01:25:52.662 Part of the IB conversation, not part of the 01:25:52.662 --> 01:25:56.832 what requirement should it satisfy conversation. 01:25:56.832 --> 01:25:59.499 So if it is a two-credit course, 01:26:00.627 --> 01:26:04.574 student can satisfy a Math credit, a local credit, 01:26:04.574 --> 01:26:06.724 and they get their two credits just like they would 01:26:06.724 --> 01:26:09.694 for the other IB higher level courses. 01:26:09.694 --> 01:26:13.635 For AP Computer Science A, your current rule allows 01:26:13.635 --> 01:26:16.782 a student to earn one to two credits. 01:26:16.782 --> 01:26:19.234 We're trying to eliminate the range. 01:26:19.234 --> 01:26:22.842 This is still, we're working through all of this. 01:26:22.842 --> 01:26:24.334 But we still have a range here 01:26:24.334 --> 01:26:26.641 and so you haven't actually made a decision, 01:26:26.641 --> 01:26:29.094 one credit or two credits. 01:26:29.094 --> 01:26:31.460 If you make the decision to go ahead and go 01:26:31.460 --> 01:26:35.045 with the two credits, it would be consistent with IB 01:26:35.045 --> 01:26:39.212 and it would certainly lessen the complication for districts 01:26:41.343 --> 01:26:43.562 in terms of allowing the students to satisfy 01:26:43.562 --> 01:26:47.729 the two requirements and then they get two credits. 01:26:48.701 --> 01:26:51.639 But one clarification question. 01:26:51.639 --> 01:26:54.797 So on AP Computer Science though, 01:26:54.797 --> 01:26:58.964 I understand that is designed to be a one-year course, 01:26:59.909 --> 01:27:01.242 is that correct? 01:27:02.249 --> 01:27:04.999 I don't know that any of the... 01:27:06.321 --> 01:27:10.488 Again, it's not about how long it's designed to take, 01:27:12.114 --> 01:27:14.648 it's about the amount of content, 01:27:14.648 --> 01:27:19.108 the demonstrated proficiency, and how many credits should 01:27:19.108 --> 01:27:22.883 be awarded for that demonstrated proficiency. 01:27:22.883 --> 01:27:26.018 It shouldn't matter how long it takes. 01:27:26.018 --> 01:27:30.269 I know, but the intent of the IB courses 01:27:30.269 --> 01:27:32.686 is a two-year approach to IB. 01:27:36.085 --> 01:27:37.177 It's completely different. 01:27:37.177 --> 01:27:38.522 Except that we don't have clarity 01:27:38.522 --> 01:27:41.439 on the 150 hours and the 240 hours. 01:27:43.177 --> 01:27:45.404 Because that seems to contradict that the intent 01:27:45.404 --> 01:27:47.154 is a two-year course. 01:27:49.111 --> 01:27:50.444 Okay, alright. 01:27:51.642 --> 01:27:55.391 And Mr. Maynard and then Miss Hardy and then Mr. Allen. 01:27:55.391 --> 01:27:56.224 So-- 01:27:56.224 --> 01:27:57.068 Oh, okay. 01:27:57.068 --> 01:27:59.297 So just so I understand. 01:27:59.297 --> 01:28:01.449 Oh my goodness. 01:28:01.449 --> 01:28:04.828 So the AP Computer Science kind of has a range of credit? 01:28:04.828 --> 01:28:05.661 Yes sir. 01:28:05.661 --> 01:28:06.529 That's what we're talking about. 01:28:06.529 --> 01:28:09.280 Because the IB, we already addressed 01:28:09.280 --> 01:28:10.853 with the staff recommendations? 01:28:10.853 --> 01:28:12.722 We haven't gotten to Chapter 126 yet. 01:28:12.722 --> 01:28:14.458 That's what we'll bring to you for first reading 01:28:14.458 --> 01:28:15.561 in January. 01:28:15.561 --> 01:28:19.596 But if you go to Chapter 126, Subchapter D, 01:28:19.596 --> 01:28:21.300 and we need to make copies of this for you 01:28:21.300 --> 01:28:23.302 if that would be helpful, we can, 01:28:23.302 --> 01:28:27.167 but currently, right now, Chapter 126 says 01:28:27.167 --> 01:28:32.033 "Advanced Placement Computer Science A, one to two credits. 01:28:32.033 --> 01:28:34.209 "International Baccalaureate Computer Science, 01:28:34.209 --> 01:28:36.621 "higher level, one to two credits." 01:28:36.621 --> 01:28:38.732 That's what is currently allowed. 01:28:38.732 --> 01:28:40.545 And Miss Chairman, I will tell you this is, 01:28:40.545 --> 01:28:43.056 there are other courses that we teach 01:28:43.056 --> 01:28:46.024 in the span of one year that are two 01:28:46.024 --> 01:28:47.154 or even three credit classes. 01:28:47.154 --> 01:28:48.367 That is correct. 01:28:48.367 --> 01:28:50.984 So that's not really outside of the norm. 01:28:50.984 --> 01:28:52.694 Yeah, but usually they're longer, right? 01:28:52.694 --> 01:28:56.310 They're not squeezed into a 45 minute thing. 01:28:56.310 --> 01:28:58.829 It's not associated with time. 01:28:58.829 --> 01:29:01.579 But it's not in terms of policy 01:29:03.235 --> 01:29:05.395 but frequently it is in terms of practice. 01:29:05.395 --> 01:29:07.270 In terms of practice, that may be. 01:29:07.270 --> 01:29:08.777 But there's not anything that says 01:29:08.777 --> 01:29:11.365 that a student couldn't earn two credits 01:29:11.365 --> 01:29:15.791 for content that they demonstrate proficiency in 01:29:15.791 --> 01:29:17.252 over the course of a year. 01:29:17.252 --> 01:29:19.252 Yeah, usually a teacher that is gonna teach a class 01:29:19.252 --> 01:29:24.069 that has that volume of content will usually try 01:29:24.069 --> 01:29:26.512 to, you know, block multiple periods in order to do that. 01:29:26.512 --> 01:29:27.804 Exactly my point. 01:29:27.804 --> 01:29:32.657 Just attempting to do that in a 50-minute class 01:29:32.657 --> 01:29:35.437 or over the span of a year is just not practical. 01:29:35.437 --> 01:29:36.932 Right, right, okay. 01:29:36.932 --> 01:29:41.099 Alright, I've got, yeah, Maynard then Hardy then Cortez. 01:29:42.066 --> 01:29:43.865 Dr. Allen, I think your hand was up? 01:29:43.865 --> 01:29:47.198 And then Mr. Rowley. 01:29:51.088 --> 01:29:53.483 (laughs) Dr. Ellis is gonna go. 01:29:53.483 --> 01:29:55.514 No, I'm up, I'm up. 01:29:55.514 --> 01:29:58.584 I'm gonna let Mr. Rowley sum up the conversation 01:29:58.584 --> 01:30:00.112 because we're moving on! 01:30:00.112 --> 01:30:02.276 (laughs) Okay, go ahead. 01:30:02.276 --> 01:30:06.123 My concern is exactly what you said 01:30:06.123 --> 01:30:09.802 with the AP Computer Science one to two credits. 01:30:09.802 --> 01:30:12.805 Would this not open every AP course, 01:30:12.805 --> 01:30:16.109 like we have AP US History, oh, we could give one 01:30:16.109 --> 01:30:18.109 to two credits for that? 01:30:19.288 --> 01:30:20.508 Madam Chair. 01:30:20.508 --> 01:30:22.659 So we're gonna eliminate the range. 01:30:22.659 --> 01:30:25.615 We are working to eliminate all ranges. 01:30:25.615 --> 01:30:27.964 Ultimately, you're going to need to decide 01:30:27.964 --> 01:30:31.912 whether AP Computer Science A is one credit or two credits. 01:30:31.912 --> 01:30:35.629 That is a decision that we anticipate will come before you 01:30:35.629 --> 01:30:38.026 for first reading at the next meeting. 01:30:38.026 --> 01:30:41.211 I simply wanted to point out that you've got some precedent 01:30:41.211 --> 01:30:43.526 here for allowing two credits. 01:30:43.526 --> 01:30:46.703 And for those of you who express concern about the confusion 01:30:46.703 --> 01:30:50.605 that might be created by satisfying two requirements 01:30:50.605 --> 01:30:54.299 with one credit, I felt like it was important to point out 01:30:54.299 --> 01:30:57.751 that you have students right now who are able 01:30:57.751 --> 01:30:59.418 to earn two credits. 01:31:01.648 --> 01:31:03.763 We're only talking about these two courses. 01:31:03.763 --> 01:31:05.513 Mr. Cortez. 01:31:08.170 --> 01:31:11.260 It seems like we have a lot more conversation to be had 01:31:11.260 --> 01:31:15.427 on this particular topic but I thought we're pretty close 01:31:16.987 --> 01:31:18.506 to wrapping up. 01:31:18.506 --> 01:31:20.642 When does all this need to be in effect? 01:31:20.642 --> 01:31:23.440 So let's just say we do approve it today, 01:31:23.440 --> 01:31:25.140 this doesn't take into effect till next school year 01:31:25.140 --> 01:31:25.973 either way. 01:31:25.973 --> 01:31:27.587 I'm not asking you to approve anything today. 01:31:27.587 --> 01:31:28.686 No, I understand that. 01:31:28.686 --> 01:31:31.065 I'm just asking... 01:31:31.065 --> 01:31:34.169 We said we would provide you with language 01:31:34.169 --> 01:31:36.914 about explaining to districts that students can satisfy 01:31:36.914 --> 01:31:38.030 two requirements. 01:31:38.030 --> 01:31:39.363 We've done that. 01:31:40.885 --> 01:31:44.042 I felt like I needed to explain why we didn't specify 01:31:44.042 --> 01:31:47.212 in that language that it's only one credit. 01:31:47.212 --> 01:31:48.956 Because then somebody's gonna say, well, 01:31:48.956 --> 01:31:50.590 you're saying one credit here 01:31:50.590 --> 01:31:53.736 but your existing rule allows something different. 01:31:53.736 --> 01:31:56.186 So I was just trying to explain 01:31:56.186 --> 01:31:59.316 that you're going to have some decisions to make 01:31:59.316 --> 01:32:00.725 at the next meeting 01:32:00.725 --> 01:32:03.886 with two separate yet related agenda items. 01:32:03.886 --> 01:32:08.481 Right, so while they're related, until it's all done, 01:32:08.481 --> 01:32:11.208 then it'll become final, right? 01:32:11.208 --> 01:32:13.972 So none of the Chapter 74 requirements 01:32:13.972 --> 01:32:17.889 will go into place until the start of the next school year. 01:32:17.889 --> 01:32:22.056 Okay, so I see no harm in maybe delaying a vote on this. 01:32:24.865 --> 01:32:26.454 There's no need to delay. 01:32:26.454 --> 01:32:29.347 It's a first reading, it's a first reading. 01:32:29.347 --> 01:32:31.239 Okay, so then after we do the first reading, 01:32:31.239 --> 01:32:32.429 then we'll have time to comment-- 01:32:32.429 --> 01:32:33.262 We'll get comments. 01:32:33.262 --> 01:32:35.693 We'll hear all the concerns from the field? 01:32:35.693 --> 01:32:37.631 And first reading gets it out there 01:32:37.631 --> 01:32:38.464 so people can comment back. 01:32:38.464 --> 01:32:39.668 Okay. 01:32:39.668 --> 01:32:40.620 Okay. 01:32:40.620 --> 01:32:43.995 Dr. Ellis and then Mr. Rowley will in summation. 01:32:43.995 --> 01:32:47.095 I just want to make sure I have this all together. 01:32:47.095 --> 01:32:49.757 We're on first reading right now 01:32:49.757 --> 01:32:53.091 about this, I'm gonna call it the Rowley clause 01:32:53.091 --> 01:32:55.068 that we have in here. 01:32:55.068 --> 01:32:57.693 If we decide in January on that first reading 01:32:57.693 --> 01:33:00.229 to make that class two credits, 01:33:00.229 --> 01:33:02.540 in my mind the problem goes away. 01:33:02.540 --> 01:33:05.501 But we have to decide on this now on first reading, 01:33:05.501 --> 01:33:07.314 second reading in January, 01:33:07.314 --> 01:33:10.282 on an issue that'll be first reading for the number 01:33:10.282 --> 01:33:12.369 of credits, the range. 01:33:12.369 --> 01:33:13.911 Do I have that correct? 01:33:13.911 --> 01:33:16.365 We're first reading now on this clause 01:33:16.365 --> 01:33:19.117 about the two for one box. 01:33:19.117 --> 01:33:19.950 Correct. 01:33:19.950 --> 01:33:22.792 We'll be first reading for a possible solution to that 01:33:22.792 --> 01:33:26.397 not until January if we make the range a two credit. 01:33:26.397 --> 01:33:28.514 In my mind, the problem goes away 01:33:28.514 --> 01:33:31.117 if both those classes end up as two credit. 01:33:31.117 --> 01:33:33.039 You're correct, the problem goes away. 01:33:33.039 --> 01:33:33.968 In my mind. 01:33:33.968 --> 01:33:36.220 And you can take, so what we would do is 01:33:36.220 --> 01:33:39.597 we would bring 126, Subchapter D, to you as first reading 01:33:39.597 --> 01:33:40.514 in January. 01:33:41.877 --> 01:33:44.478 So at that point, if at first reading you say 01:33:44.478 --> 01:33:46.678 we intend to make these two credits, 01:33:46.678 --> 01:33:51.503 you go ahead and approve the Chapter 74 for final adoption, 01:33:51.503 --> 01:33:55.149 we come back in April and you approve Subchapter D 01:33:55.149 --> 01:33:58.908 for second reading, all of that goes into effect 01:33:58.908 --> 01:34:02.117 in the start of the 18/19 school year. 01:34:02.117 --> 01:34:05.845 I believe, to use your words, problem solved. 01:34:05.845 --> 01:34:06.694 Unless. 01:34:06.694 --> 01:34:09.692 Now if your decision is we want to revert 01:34:09.692 --> 01:34:13.121 AP Computer Science to one credit, 01:34:13.121 --> 01:34:14.275 problem not quite solved. 01:34:14.275 --> 01:34:19.228 So I would be in favor of leaving the Rowley clause in 01:34:19.228 --> 01:34:20.472 at this first reading. 01:34:20.472 --> 01:34:23.331 If we get to second reading and I don't know, 01:34:23.331 --> 01:34:27.584 can we maybe have the range of credit placed on the agenda 01:34:27.584 --> 01:34:28.917 before this one? 01:34:30.005 --> 01:34:32.053 And if that ends up two credit, then we're fine. 01:34:32.053 --> 01:34:33.609 If it ends up one credit, then I would move 01:34:33.609 --> 01:34:35.691 to strike the Rowley clause at that point 01:34:35.691 --> 01:34:36.526 as we discussed. 01:34:36.526 --> 01:34:38.964 We can certainly put it on the agenda 01:34:38.964 --> 01:34:40.775 before Chapter 74. 01:34:40.775 --> 01:34:43.930 You can also come back on Friday and make adjustments 01:34:43.930 --> 01:34:46.790 before the final adoption if you needed to. 01:34:46.790 --> 01:34:49.617 And explain what the Rowley clause is. 01:34:49.617 --> 01:34:52.558 Or Mr. Rowley, you can explain the Rowley clause. 01:34:52.558 --> 01:34:54.176 The Rowley clause is a two boxes 01:34:54.176 --> 01:34:55.009 for one credit. 01:34:55.009 --> 01:34:57.179 There you go, that's right. 01:34:57.179 --> 01:34:59.900 Yeah, two requirements, you mean. 01:34:59.900 --> 01:35:01.759 Two requirements with one credit. 01:35:01.759 --> 01:35:04.016 But with one credit, yeah. 01:35:04.016 --> 01:35:06.747 Yeah, so and I think Dr. Ellis summed it up very well 01:35:06.747 --> 01:35:08.187 but since I get the last word, 01:35:08.187 --> 01:35:10.358 then I'll take a shot as well. 01:35:10.358 --> 01:35:13.815 So we can vote today in favor of the action we took 01:35:13.815 --> 01:35:17.232 on Wednesday and then have an opportunity 01:35:18.540 --> 01:35:21.790 to resolve any concerns that anyone had 01:35:23.900 --> 01:35:28.067 when we take up that item for first reading next meeting. 01:35:29.093 --> 01:35:30.293 Right, Monica? 01:35:30.293 --> 01:35:31.126 Yes sir. 01:35:31.126 --> 01:35:35.529 And so the proposal would include the language 01:35:35.529 --> 01:35:39.696 that you see highlighted in 74.11 that explains that. 01:35:40.846 --> 01:35:43.878 So you instructed us through your motion 01:35:43.878 --> 01:35:46.794 to come up with some language. 01:35:46.794 --> 01:35:48.134 And that's item K. 01:35:48.134 --> 01:35:49.054 Yes sir. 01:35:49.054 --> 01:35:51.689 And so I wanted to make sure that you saw the language 01:35:51.689 --> 01:35:55.856 that we would include in the proposal for comment. 01:35:58.140 --> 01:35:59.631 Okay, terrific. 01:35:59.631 --> 01:36:02.320 Okay, let's go back to our vote, 01:36:02.320 --> 01:36:04.199 if hopefully we're ready for the question. 01:36:04.199 --> 01:36:05.803 So the committee recommended-- 01:36:05.803 --> 01:36:06.647 Madam Chair. 01:36:06.647 --> 01:36:07.480 I'm so sorry. 01:36:07.480 --> 01:36:08.486 You've got a board member, 01:36:08.486 --> 01:36:12.062 Mrs. Miller is trying to get your attention. 01:36:12.062 --> 01:36:13.346 Yes, Mrs. Miller? 01:36:13.346 --> 01:36:17.513 Mr. Rowley, would you tell us what page in the book? 01:36:19.514 --> 01:36:21.958 Normally when we do go through the minutes, 01:36:21.958 --> 01:36:23.125 you also say-- 01:36:24.501 --> 01:36:28.110 Because I usually put my focus on what's in the book. 01:36:28.110 --> 01:36:29.952 Gotcha, yes ma'am. 01:36:29.952 --> 01:36:31.613 Yes ma'am, Mrs. Miller. 01:36:31.613 --> 01:36:33.946 It's Board Agenda page I-39. 01:36:36.895 --> 01:36:37.962 Alright? 01:36:37.962 --> 01:36:38.985 That's right. 01:36:38.985 --> 01:36:40.902 That's right. 01:36:41.791 --> 01:36:42.948 Okay, I-39. 01:36:42.948 --> 01:36:45.688 So the motion before us is that the committee recommends 01:36:45.688 --> 01:36:47.772 the State Board of Education approve for first reading 01:36:47.772 --> 01:36:50.808 and filing authorization for post amendments to 19 TAC, 01:36:50.808 --> 01:36:54.149 Chapter 74, Curriculum Requirements, Subchapter B, 01:36:54.149 --> 01:36:57.202 Graduation Requirements, majority vote is needed only 01:36:57.202 --> 01:36:58.124 in this case. 01:36:58.124 --> 01:36:59.928 All those in favor say aye? 01:36:59.928 --> 01:37:00.761 Aye. 01:37:00.761 --> 01:37:02.541 All those opposed say no. 01:37:02.541 --> 01:37:03.453 Motion carries. 01:37:03.453 --> 01:37:05.948 And members, I've been requested to just take a small, 01:37:05.948 --> 01:37:08.761 because there's votes going on, to take a small break 01:37:08.761 --> 01:37:11.636 just to do necessary things. 01:37:11.636 --> 01:37:15.871 So we're gonna meet back at five minutes till 11. 01:37:15.871 --> 01:37:18.371 Just a 10 minute break, just-- 01:37:24.787 --> 01:37:26.870 From our necessary break. 01:37:29.223 --> 01:37:31.794 Members, we're gonna move on with our agenda. 01:37:31.794 --> 01:37:35.595 Some of us have to catch flights and so we want to make sure 01:37:35.595 --> 01:37:39.762 that members are able to do that and can make their votes. 01:37:43.095 --> 01:37:47.262 We're on page I-53, committed agenda item number four. 01:37:48.808 --> 01:37:49.848 Alright, everybody there? 01:37:49.848 --> 01:37:51.061 I-53. 01:37:51.061 --> 01:37:53.093 In the Board Agenda book, yeah. 01:37:53.093 --> 01:37:57.260 Item four on your Committee of the Full Board minutes. 01:38:00.766 --> 01:38:02.779 And it reads "we recommend 01:38:02.779 --> 01:38:05.359 "that the State Board of Education approve for first reading 01:38:05.359 --> 01:38:09.303 "and filing authorization proposed amendments to 19 TAC, 01:38:09.303 --> 01:38:12.666 "Chapter 66, State Adoption and Distribution 01:38:12.666 --> 01:38:15.632 "of Instructional Materials, Subchapter B, 01:38:15.632 --> 01:38:18.421 "State Adoption of Instructional Materials 01:38:18.421 --> 01:38:22.254 "and Subchapter C, Local Operations as amended." 01:38:24.890 --> 01:38:27.984 Okay, the motion before us is to approve 01:38:27.984 --> 01:38:29.552 for the first reading and filing authorization 01:38:29.552 --> 01:38:32.210 proposed amendments to 19 TAC, Chapter 66, 01:38:32.210 --> 01:38:35.495 State Adoption and Distribution of Instructional Materials, 01:38:35.495 --> 01:38:38.456 Subchapter B, State Adoption of Instructional Materials, 01:38:38.456 --> 01:38:41.010 and Subchapter C, Local Operations. 01:38:41.010 --> 01:38:44.036 Are you ready for the question? 01:38:44.036 --> 01:38:46.166 All those in favor say aye? 01:38:46.166 --> 01:38:46.999 Aye. 01:38:46.999 --> 01:38:48.719 All those opposed say no. 01:38:48.719 --> 01:38:49.814 Motion carries. 01:38:49.814 --> 01:38:53.231 Item five is on Board Agenda page I-71. 01:38:57.184 --> 01:39:00.689 And it's on page four of your minutes, 01:39:00.689 --> 01:39:04.106 carrying over to the bottom of page five. 01:39:05.331 --> 01:39:08.582 It is recommended that the State Board of Education approves 01:39:08.582 --> 01:39:10.668 for first reading and filing authorization 01:39:10.668 --> 01:39:14.669 proposed revisions to 19 TAC, Chapter 110, 01:39:14.669 --> 01:39:17.166 Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for English, 01:39:17.166 --> 01:39:20.423 Language Arts, and Reading, Subchapter D, 01:39:20.423 --> 01:39:22.703 Other High School English, Language Arts, 01:39:22.703 --> 01:39:24.408 and Reading courses, 01:39:24.408 --> 01:39:27.315 Chapter 111, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills 01:39:27.315 --> 01:39:28.786 for Mathematics. 01:39:28.786 --> 01:39:33.015 Subchapter D, Other High School Mathematics courses, 01:39:33.015 --> 01:39:36.182 Chapter 112, Texas Essential Knowledge 01:39:38.657 --> 01:39:40.240 and Skills for Science, 01:39:40.240 --> 01:39:42.780 Subchapter D, Other Science courses, 01:39:42.780 --> 01:39:45.971 and Chapter 114, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills 01:39:45.971 --> 01:39:47.988 for Languages Other than English, 01:39:47.988 --> 01:39:51.632 Subchapter D, Other Languages Other than English courses 01:39:51.632 --> 01:39:52.549 as amended. 01:39:56.896 --> 01:39:59.238 So it's been recommended to approve for first reading 01:39:59.238 --> 01:40:02.415 and filing authorization proposed revisions to 19 TAC, 01:40:02.415 --> 01:40:04.712 Chapter 110, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills 01:40:04.712 --> 01:40:06.256 for English, Language Arts, and Reading, 01:40:06.256 --> 01:40:09.365 Subchapter D, Other High School English, Language Arts, 01:40:09.365 --> 01:40:12.422 and Reading courses, Subchapter 111, 01:40:12.422 --> 01:40:14.351 Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Mathematics, 01:40:14.351 --> 01:40:16.567 Subchapter D, Other High School Mathematics courses, 01:40:16.567 --> 01:40:20.844 Chapter 112, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills 01:40:20.844 --> 01:40:23.854 for Science, Subchapter D, Other Science courses, 01:40:23.854 --> 01:40:26.853 and Chapter 114, Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills 01:40:26.853 --> 01:40:29.695 for Languages Other than English, Subchapter D, 01:40:29.695 --> 01:40:33.290 Languages Other than English courses. 01:40:33.290 --> 01:40:34.784 Are you ready for the question? 01:40:34.784 --> 01:40:36.390 All those in favor say aye. 01:40:36.390 --> 01:40:37.223 Aye. 01:40:37.223 --> 01:40:39.032 All those opposed say no. 01:40:39.032 --> 01:40:40.617 Madam Chair, that's all the recommendations 01:40:40.617 --> 01:40:42.064 of the Committee of the Full Board. 01:40:42.064 --> 01:40:46.231 Terrific, so we're on to the Committee on Instruction. 01:40:47.949 --> 01:40:51.843 So we need to get to the right minutes. 01:40:51.843 --> 01:40:55.228 It's a little two page, stapled together, 01:40:55.228 --> 01:40:57.228 says November 9th, 2017. 01:41:04.049 --> 01:41:07.520 In the Board Agenda book, page 2-21, correct? 01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:08.353 Right. 01:41:09.566 --> 01:41:12.899 Miss Miller, 2-21 on that one. 01:41:19.378 --> 01:41:23.712 And which amendment is it, or which one on our handout here? 01:41:23.712 --> 01:41:26.082 Well, number two on page two. 01:41:26.082 --> 01:41:27.915 Okay, great. 01:41:29.164 --> 01:41:30.321 On behalf of-- 01:41:30.321 --> 01:41:33.287 And well, where the number two is, 01:41:33.287 --> 01:41:35.592 go down to the Motion and Vote. 01:41:35.592 --> 01:41:37.479 On behalf of the Committee on Instruction, 01:41:37.479 --> 01:41:39.508 I move that the State Board of Education 01:41:39.508 --> 01:41:42.904 by an affirmative vote of two-thirds of the members of the board 01:41:42.904 --> 01:41:45.263 approve for second reading and final adoption 01:41:45.263 --> 01:41:48.346 proposed repeal of 19 TAC, Chapter 112, 01:41:49.464 --> 01:41:51.960 Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Science, 01:41:51.960 --> 01:41:54.787 Subchapter D, Other Science courses, 01:41:54.787 --> 01:41:58.954 112.71, Principles of Technology, one Physics credit, 01:42:00.615 --> 01:42:05.166 and 112.72, Other Courses for Which Students May Receive 01:42:05.166 --> 01:42:08.266 Science Credit with an effective date of 20 days 01:42:08.266 --> 01:42:11.748 after filing as adopted with the Texas Register. 01:42:11.748 --> 01:42:14.988 This one requires a two-thirds vote, members, 01:42:14.988 --> 01:42:17.519 so we'll be raising our hands for this one. 01:42:17.519 --> 01:42:21.102 All those in favor, please raise your hand. 01:42:24.287 --> 01:42:26.251 Ladies and gentlemen? 01:42:26.251 --> 01:42:27.084 Sorry. 01:42:27.084 --> 01:42:27.917 Thank you. 01:42:27.917 --> 01:42:30.000 (laughs) 01:42:31.518 --> 01:42:32.435 Yeah, okay. 01:42:34.117 --> 01:42:36.827 All those opposed, raise your hand. 01:42:36.827 --> 01:42:39.336 And there's no opposition, okay. 01:42:39.336 --> 01:42:41.119 Thank you, members, the motion carries. 01:42:41.119 --> 01:42:42.586 Madam Chair, we have one more. 01:42:42.586 --> 01:42:46.757 Number three begins at the bottom of page two, 01:42:46.757 --> 01:42:50.340 it's in our Board Agenda book on page 2-35. 01:42:58.500 --> 01:43:00.793 On behalf of the Committee on Instruction, 01:43:00.793 --> 01:43:02.876 I move that the State Board of Education 01:43:02.876 --> 01:43:06.397 by an affirmative vote of two-thirds of the members of the board 01:43:06.397 --> 01:43:08.874 approve for second reading and filing adoption 01:43:08.874 --> 01:43:12.207 proposed amendment to 19 TAC, Chapter 130, 01:43:13.581 --> 01:43:15.865 Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills for Career 01:43:15.865 --> 01:43:19.258 and Technical Education, Subchapter C, 01:43:19.258 --> 01:43:23.556 Arts, Audio, Video, Technology, and Communications, 01:43:23.556 --> 01:43:27.389 130.121, Extended Practicum in Fashion Design, 01:43:28.319 --> 01:43:31.537 two to three credits, adopted 2015, 01:43:31.537 --> 01:43:34.258 with an effective date of 20 days after filing 01:43:34.258 --> 01:43:36.413 with the Texas Register. 01:43:36.413 --> 01:43:37.815 Are you ready for the question? 01:43:37.815 --> 01:43:39.650 Again, this is a two-thirds vote required, 01:43:39.650 --> 01:43:40.822 so please raise your hands. 01:43:40.822 --> 01:43:43.905 All those in favor, raise your hands. 01:43:46.489 --> 01:43:48.983 All those opposed, raise your hands. 01:43:48.983 --> 01:43:50.309 Motion is adopted. 01:43:50.309 --> 01:43:51.691 Madam Chair, that's all from the Committee 01:43:51.691 --> 01:43:52.714 on Instruction. 01:43:52.714 --> 01:43:54.547 Thank you very much. 01:43:57.390 --> 01:43:59.577 Alright, Mr. Bradley, I think you're up. 01:43:59.577 --> 01:44:03.346 Let's get to the right notes here, everybody. 01:44:03.346 --> 01:44:08.261 All of our action items were placed on the consent, 01:44:08.261 --> 01:44:09.717 as there was unanimous agreement 01:44:09.717 --> 01:44:13.128 among the committee members, but I will for your reference 01:44:13.128 --> 01:44:16.211 point out a couple significant items. 01:44:17.618 --> 01:44:19.155 Under number six on the second page, 01:44:19.155 --> 01:44:23.322 Ratification and Purchases of the Investment Portfolio. 01:44:24.289 --> 01:44:27.789 We purchased a billion-point-one in securities 01:44:28.902 --> 01:44:32.151 and we only sold off 756,000,000. 01:44:32.151 --> 01:44:34.191 Usually those numbers pretty well match up, 01:44:34.191 --> 01:44:36.342 having sold the security and-- 01:44:36.342 --> 01:44:38.278 I'm sorry, which one is this, Mr. Bradley? 01:44:38.278 --> 01:44:40.361 Page two of the report. 01:44:42.248 --> 01:44:43.348 Two, which one is it? 01:44:43.348 --> 01:44:45.044 Permanent School Fund items. 01:44:45.044 --> 01:44:46.559 I mean but two or three there? 01:44:46.559 --> 01:44:49.205 Number six, page two. 01:44:49.205 --> 01:44:51.184 Oh, I have two handouts, so sorry. 01:44:51.184 --> 01:44:52.281 There's a finance and there's a-- 01:44:52.281 --> 01:44:53.508 I'm looking at the wrong thing, I'm sorry. 01:44:53.508 --> 01:44:56.450 Yeah, I'm looking at the wrong thing, sorry. 01:44:56.450 --> 01:44:57.333 I got it. 01:44:57.333 --> 01:44:58.709 Okay, I got it, I'm so sorry. 01:44:58.709 --> 01:45:01.835 I wanted to make note on the right paper, so. 01:45:01.835 --> 01:45:03.936 I'm sorry, can you repeat that Mr. Bradley? 01:45:03.936 --> 01:45:06.436 On the big agenda, it's 325. 01:45:09.917 --> 01:45:10.750 3-25. 01:45:14.986 --> 01:45:17.638 And I guess just a note, since there's a discrepancy 01:45:17.638 --> 01:45:19.116 between sales and purchases, 01:45:19.116 --> 01:45:22.181 we'll probably receive some inflows 01:45:22.181 --> 01:45:25.245 into the Permanent School Fund, General Land Office 01:45:25.245 --> 01:45:30.224 is contributing almost $300,000,000 in proceeds 01:45:30.224 --> 01:45:32.806 to the fund, and oil and gas leases 01:45:32.806 --> 01:45:34.857 and revenues are certainly up. 01:45:34.857 --> 01:45:38.882 So we have new inflows coming into the fund. 01:45:38.882 --> 01:45:40.252 The second item, number seven, 01:45:40.252 --> 01:45:42.795 which you'll find under 3-27, 01:45:42.795 --> 01:45:45.838 we made decisions on real estate investments. 01:45:45.838 --> 01:45:49.604 We were presented three proposals for investments 01:45:49.604 --> 01:45:51.771 into real estate packages. 01:45:53.061 --> 01:45:56.311 Two of them were for 75,000,000 a piece 01:45:57.616 --> 01:46:01.199 and the third one was for 75,000,000 euros. 01:46:03.430 --> 01:46:04.830 That was a little bit unique, 01:46:04.830 --> 01:46:07.655 and we had an interesting discussion. 01:46:07.655 --> 01:46:10.095 Part of the discussion was was we're gonna be buying 01:46:10.095 --> 01:46:14.767 into euros and as the fund matures and does its payout, 01:46:14.767 --> 01:46:16.336 it'll come back to us in euros. 01:46:16.336 --> 01:46:19.070 So we had a discussion about currency risk 01:46:19.070 --> 01:46:21.579 and what happens if it's favorable going in 01:46:21.579 --> 01:46:25.082 but it's disadvantage to us when funds come back. 01:46:25.082 --> 01:46:29.298 And the general consensus was we don't hedge currencies. 01:46:29.298 --> 01:46:32.048 And by and large, at the end of the day, 01:46:32.048 --> 01:46:34.242 some will be up and some will be down 01:46:34.242 --> 01:46:37.222 and it should all even out in the end. 01:46:37.222 --> 01:46:39.722 So that was a good discussion. 01:46:40.686 --> 01:46:44.436 Number eight, which you will find under 3-29. 01:46:45.690 --> 01:46:48.444 We finally cleaned up some of the language 01:46:48.444 --> 01:46:51.204 under investment objectives and policies 01:46:51.204 --> 01:46:52.722 under the Bond Guarantee Program. 01:46:52.722 --> 01:46:55.855 I know this has been an item of discussion 01:46:55.855 --> 01:46:57.128 for the Bond Guarantee Program, 01:46:57.128 --> 01:47:00.147 and specifically, how it is addressed with charter schools. 01:47:00.147 --> 01:47:02.879 There was some recent legislation that required 01:47:02.879 --> 01:47:05.579 some cleaning up in our language, 01:47:05.579 --> 01:47:08.804 which expanded the bond capacity rate, 01:47:08.804 --> 01:47:11.441 and suffice it to say, happily for the next two 01:47:11.441 --> 01:47:14.076 or three years, I would suspect we won't be having 01:47:14.076 --> 01:47:16.467 the conversation again. 01:47:16.467 --> 01:47:18.273 There's certainly plenty of capacity, 01:47:18.273 --> 01:47:21.440 so we won't be having that discussion. 01:47:23.009 --> 01:47:25.299 Thank you, Madam Chair. 01:47:25.299 --> 01:47:28.564 Mr. Bradley, you have two items on the agenda. 01:47:28.564 --> 01:47:29.941 For? 01:47:29.941 --> 01:47:32.510 For School Finance. 01:47:32.510 --> 01:47:33.949 Under School Finance? 01:47:33.949 --> 01:47:35.449 Item number two. 01:47:36.979 --> 01:47:40.680 Mr. Maynard, do you have that? 01:47:40.680 --> 01:47:43.597 Two and three we need to vote on. 01:47:46.091 --> 01:47:49.362 We need to vote on two and three on that committee agenda. 01:47:49.362 --> 01:47:51.862 I do not have those minutes. 01:47:57.132 --> 01:47:58.241 Oh, here we are. 01:47:58.241 --> 01:48:00.824 I did not have it, I apologize. 01:48:02.023 --> 01:48:04.868 So on titled School Finance, 01:48:04.868 --> 01:48:08.521 which is a two page document, on page two of it 01:48:08.521 --> 01:48:11.521 but then in your big book under 3-7, 01:48:13.449 --> 01:48:16.722 the proposed amendment to 19 TAC, Chapter 109, 01:48:16.722 --> 01:48:18.593 Budgeting, Accounting, and Auditing, 01:48:18.593 --> 01:48:20.683 Uniform Bank Bids or Request for Proposal, 01:48:20.683 --> 01:48:24.113 Depository Contracts, Uniform Deposit Bank Contract, 01:48:24.113 --> 01:48:26.634 Maturity, Bond Forms, 01:48:26.634 --> 01:48:30.801 and it was recommended to approve for first reading 01:48:32.079 --> 01:48:34.561 and filing authorization for the proposed amendments 01:48:34.561 --> 01:48:35.394 to 19 TAC. 01:48:37.472 --> 01:48:38.884 So the motion before us, members, 01:48:38.884 --> 01:48:40.973 is to approve for first reading and filing authorization 01:48:40.973 --> 01:48:43.739 the proposed amendment to 19 TAC, Chapter 109, 01:48:43.739 --> 01:48:46.702 Budgeting, Accounting, and Auditing, Subchapter D, 01:48:46.702 --> 01:48:49.142 Uniform Bank Bid or Request for Proposal 01:48:49.142 --> 01:48:52.138 and Depository Contract, 109.52, 01:48:52.138 --> 01:48:57.106 Uniform Depository Bank Contract and Surety Bond Forms. 01:48:57.106 --> 01:48:58.467 This is a majority vote item. 01:48:58.467 --> 01:49:00.279 All those in favor say aye? 01:49:00.279 --> 01:49:01.112 Aye. 01:49:01.112 --> 01:49:03.027 All those opposed say no. 01:49:03.027 --> 01:49:04.636 The motion is adopted. 01:49:04.636 --> 01:49:05.469 And one more. 01:49:05.469 --> 01:49:07.222 And the next item, number three, 01:49:07.222 --> 01:49:11.935 which you'll find in your Board Agenda on 3-17. 01:49:11.935 --> 01:49:14.839 Proposed amendments 19 TAC, Chapter 129, 01:49:14.839 --> 01:49:17.574 under Student Attendance. 01:49:17.574 --> 01:49:21.020 The discussion ran where we now will allow student 01:49:21.020 --> 01:49:23.456 who's pursuing enlistment in the military 01:49:23.456 --> 01:49:26.046 or the Texas National Guard to be counted as present 01:49:26.046 --> 01:49:27.902 for funding purposes. 01:49:27.902 --> 01:49:31.713 Did we have this discussion earlier today? 01:49:31.713 --> 01:49:34.091 For up to four days as long as the district verifies 01:49:34.091 --> 01:49:36.811 the student's activities related to the pursuit 01:49:36.811 --> 01:49:38.318 of enlistment. 01:49:38.318 --> 01:49:40.666 And this amendment will update the rule to reflect changes 01:49:40.666 --> 01:49:44.993 made by Senate Bill 1152 in the last session. 01:49:44.993 --> 01:49:47.207 It will also add an additional citation 01:49:47.207 --> 01:49:49.194 to allow for approved absences related 01:49:49.194 --> 01:49:54.046 to military enlistment, as required by Senate Bill 1152. 01:49:54.046 --> 01:49:55.265 You want to read the motion? 01:49:55.265 --> 01:49:57.098 Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and read the motion. 01:49:57.098 --> 01:49:59.054 The motion before us, members, is to approve 01:49:59.054 --> 01:50:00.988 for first reading and filing authorization 01:50:00.988 --> 01:50:04.033 proposed amendment to 19 TAC Chapter 129, 01:50:04.033 --> 01:50:07.004 Student Attendance, Subchapter B, 01:50:07.004 --> 01:50:10.554 Student Attendance Accounting, 129.21, 01:50:10.554 --> 01:50:12.283 Requirements for Student Attendance Accounting 01:50:12.283 --> 01:50:14.359 for State Funding Purposes. 01:50:14.359 --> 01:50:16.669 All those in favor say aye. 01:50:16.669 --> 01:50:17.502 Aye. 01:50:17.502 --> 01:50:18.646 All those opposed say no. 01:50:18.646 --> 01:50:19.479 Motion is adopted-- 01:50:19.479 --> 01:50:21.874 Madam Chair, there is one other little item 01:50:21.874 --> 01:50:26.041 I would go back to the previous agenda who is number nine, 01:50:27.019 --> 01:50:30.730 Management of Charter District Bond Guarantee Reserve Fund, 01:50:30.730 --> 01:50:33.647 and you'll find that on item 11-55. 01:50:36.668 --> 01:50:39.053 It was by unanimous consent. 01:50:39.053 --> 01:50:42.464 But there is a fund that was established 01:50:42.464 --> 01:50:45.274 under the Charter Bond Guarantee Program 01:50:45.274 --> 01:50:48.216 that required the districts of the charters 01:50:48.216 --> 01:50:52.335 to refund back to this reserve fund a certain percentage 01:50:52.335 --> 01:50:56.552 of what is calculated as their savings in interest. 01:50:56.552 --> 01:50:58.493 If they'd gone to the banks and it was gonna cost them 01:50:58.493 --> 01:51:02.485 7% to borrow the money, they got the bond guarantee 01:51:02.485 --> 01:51:05.735 and it dropped it down to, say, 3% 01:51:06.852 --> 01:51:09.304 of that 400 basis point spread, 01:51:09.304 --> 01:51:11.473 they had to take a certain percentage of that 01:51:11.473 --> 01:51:13.748 and refund it and pay it back to us 01:51:13.748 --> 01:51:16.347 into a reserve fund and that's been put aside 01:51:16.347 --> 01:51:19.514 for the unlikely forfeiture or default, 01:51:23.214 --> 01:51:24.746 and those funds could be used. 01:51:24.746 --> 01:51:27.249 That money is starting to accumulate. 01:51:27.249 --> 01:51:29.857 Mr. Maynard, is it 5 million, 10 million? 01:51:29.857 --> 01:51:32.155 (mumbles) 01:51:32.155 --> 01:51:33.031 Three. 01:51:33.031 --> 01:51:35.414 It's gonna start to grow. 01:51:35.414 --> 01:51:37.939 The point is is that the Comptroller's been holding it, 01:51:37.939 --> 01:51:40.368 but that fund is dedicated back to us, 01:51:40.368 --> 01:51:44.253 to the State Board of Education, to do as we see fit. 01:51:44.253 --> 01:51:47.490 So we're working on a decision to bring that 01:51:47.490 --> 01:51:49.701 from the Comptroller back-- 01:51:49.701 --> 01:51:51.395 Back into the PSF. 01:51:51.395 --> 01:51:52.410 No. 01:51:52.410 --> 01:51:54.665 It comes to the State Board of Education 01:51:54.665 --> 01:51:56.036 to be invested. 01:51:56.036 --> 01:51:58.542 It will not be part of PSF assets, 01:51:58.542 --> 01:52:00.799 it will be a separate account. 01:52:00.799 --> 01:52:01.670 Oh, okay. 01:52:01.670 --> 01:52:03.374 So that's what you're working on right now. 01:52:03.374 --> 01:52:05.228 The Ken Mercer Pension Fund, we'll call it. 01:52:05.228 --> 01:52:06.061 (laughs) 01:52:06.061 --> 01:52:07.064 Yeah. 01:52:07.064 --> 01:52:08.447 Maybe we can get health care. 01:52:08.447 --> 01:52:09.653 (laughs) 01:52:09.653 --> 01:52:10.620 Yeah, okay. 01:52:10.620 --> 01:52:11.710 But yeah, the anticipation is 01:52:11.710 --> 01:52:13.031 it will be a separate account, 01:52:13.031 --> 01:52:15.692 and the State Board of Education will oversee 01:52:15.692 --> 01:52:17.275 its investment. 01:52:17.275 --> 01:52:19.887 I would suspect that it'll probably be invested 01:52:19.887 --> 01:52:23.220 into an investment-grade bond portfolio. 01:52:25.248 --> 01:52:26.517 Absolutely. 01:52:26.517 --> 01:52:28.167 It's a little extra insurance there. 01:52:28.167 --> 01:52:30.461 Yes, insurance on top of the insurance. 01:52:30.461 --> 01:52:31.662 On top of the insurance, yes. 01:52:31.662 --> 01:52:33.200 Mr. Mercer. 01:52:33.200 --> 01:52:35.072 Madam Chair, it's worthwhile mentioning, 01:52:35.072 --> 01:52:36.931 I want to thank Mr. Bradley and Miss Hardy 01:52:36.931 --> 01:52:38.035 for the years they've led us 01:52:38.035 --> 01:52:39.718 and Miss Miller too over the years. 01:52:39.718 --> 01:52:40.952 This is an important point. 01:52:40.952 --> 01:52:44.267 In our section six, it states the distribution 01:52:44.267 --> 01:52:45.958 of Permanent School Fund, two things. 01:52:45.958 --> 01:52:50.279 First, distribution for the next biennium, 2018/2019, 01:52:50.279 --> 01:52:52.382 members should know this number. 01:52:52.382 --> 01:52:55.528 2.5 billion dollars in the biennium. 01:52:55.528 --> 01:52:56.678 In the biennium. 01:52:56.678 --> 01:52:59.930 2.5 billion dollars and the comment is the benefit, 01:52:59.930 --> 01:53:01.872 the distribution will flow to the school districts 01:53:01.872 --> 01:53:05.599 and reduce the tax burden on the citizens of Texas. 01:53:05.599 --> 01:53:06.800 We can be very proud of that. 01:53:06.800 --> 01:53:07.739 No one knows that. 01:53:07.739 --> 01:53:10.323 The next biennium, again, what we have from staff 01:53:10.323 --> 01:53:14.073 is 2.5 billion dollars between 2018 and 2019. 01:53:15.199 --> 01:53:16.489 Thank you. 01:53:16.489 --> 01:53:17.482 Thank you. 01:53:17.482 --> 01:53:20.365 And Miss Miller, but I think Miss Miller and I remember 01:53:20.365 --> 01:53:24.532 when our distributions were running in the 275, 300 million. 01:53:26.755 --> 01:53:30.922 (laughs) So add 1,000,000,000 to it 20 years later. 01:53:32.144 --> 01:53:33.669 Miss Miller has a comment. 01:53:33.669 --> 01:53:37.029 We're gonna move on because of people's flights. 01:53:37.029 --> 01:53:39.351 Oh, I'm sorry, Miss Miller. 01:53:39.351 --> 01:53:40.586 That's alright. 01:53:40.586 --> 01:53:44.900 I remember (mumbles) sitting over here and I was chair 01:53:44.900 --> 01:53:47.778 and I wouldn't look over here and she had her hand up 01:53:47.778 --> 01:53:51.386 and she said you don't look over here at me, you know? 01:53:51.386 --> 01:53:52.661 Put your microphone on. 01:53:52.661 --> 01:53:56.828 (laughs) Yeah, put your microphone on, Miss Miller. 01:53:59.204 --> 01:54:02.022 Clarification, thank you. 01:54:02.022 --> 01:54:05.605 The minutes on the Risk Parity Asset Class, 01:54:06.920 --> 01:54:10.403 could you just in a real quick explanation, 01:54:10.403 --> 01:54:11.486 what is this? 01:54:13.044 --> 01:54:15.853 What are y'all gonna do with it? 01:54:15.853 --> 01:54:16.969 (laughs) Can I beg off? 01:54:16.969 --> 01:54:18.635 Pat, I'll let you do this one. 01:54:18.635 --> 01:54:19.779 Yeah, right. 01:54:19.779 --> 01:54:21.612 Risk, risk parity... 01:54:24.788 --> 01:54:28.074 And we had great difficulty getting our arms around it 01:54:28.074 --> 01:54:32.178 as a committee and after they wore us down long enough, 01:54:32.178 --> 01:54:36.345 risk parity is not an asset class like real estate 01:54:39.259 --> 01:54:42.176 or international equities or bonds. 01:54:44.168 --> 01:54:46.918 You can't go out and buy one. 01:54:46.918 --> 01:54:49.085 Risk parity is a strategy. 01:54:50.034 --> 01:54:52.797 And the number crunchers and the bean counters 01:54:52.797 --> 01:54:56.653 and the analysts have developed a strategy 01:54:56.653 --> 01:54:59.145 looking at up and down markets, 01:54:59.145 --> 01:55:03.312 and they use a combination of 60-40 allocation of assets, 01:55:04.984 --> 01:55:06.982 and it's all assets. 01:55:06.982 --> 01:55:10.565 Anyway, the experts say that over five, ten, 01:55:11.420 --> 01:55:14.897 and twenty year periods, by allocating your assets 01:55:14.897 --> 01:55:18.183 in these different ratios, we'll outperform. 01:55:18.183 --> 01:55:21.953 And historically, you'll be shown that in 10 year periods 01:55:21.953 --> 01:55:22.786 going back. 01:55:22.786 --> 01:55:27.118 So this is a strategy we have to stay in for decades. 01:55:27.118 --> 01:55:31.035 And it's only 6%, 7% of our portfolio 01:55:32.763 --> 01:55:34.876 where they're using this strategy. 01:55:34.876 --> 01:55:39.696 We acknowledge that we got in at the low end of the cycle 01:55:39.696 --> 01:55:41.142 and not the high end of the cycle, 01:55:41.142 --> 01:55:45.059 so we're seeing underperformance at this point. 01:55:45.977 --> 01:55:49.560 But by sticking with it, we will outperform 01:55:50.541 --> 01:55:53.845 having not participated in the strategy. 01:55:53.845 --> 01:55:54.870 Well, I hope so. 01:55:54.870 --> 01:55:56.164 Did that make it? 01:55:56.164 --> 01:56:00.374 Yeah, you said it right (mumbles). 01:56:00.374 --> 01:56:04.216 But we're hanging this one on staff if it doesn't work. 01:56:04.216 --> 01:56:05.869 So y'all were going into that. 01:56:05.869 --> 01:56:07.990 Just, you know, be cautious, okay? 01:56:07.990 --> 01:56:12.157 Again, it's not an asset class, it is just a strategy 01:56:13.687 --> 01:56:15.497 using current assets. 01:56:15.497 --> 01:56:18.114 And we limited it to 6, 7%. 01:56:18.114 --> 01:56:20.281 Okay, thank you. 01:56:21.243 --> 01:56:24.646 Of the Permanent School Fund regarding the minutes there. 01:56:24.646 --> 01:56:27.750 Alright, on to the Committee on School Initiatives. 01:56:27.750 --> 01:56:29.030 And I believe that's Miss Cargill. 01:56:29.030 --> 01:56:33.284 Alright, so board members, if you'll pull out the minutes. 01:56:33.284 --> 01:56:35.078 And we're on page two of the minutes. 01:56:35.078 --> 01:56:37.578 In your board book, it's 4-21. 01:56:40.466 --> 01:56:43.616 So it was recommended by the Committee on School Initiatives 01:56:43.616 --> 01:56:46.282 and this is a two-thirds vote by an affirmative vote 01:56:46.282 --> 01:56:49.418 of two-thirds today of the members of the board to approve 01:56:49.418 --> 01:56:52.063 for second reading and final adoption the proposed amendment 01:56:52.063 --> 01:56:55.646 to 19 TAC, Chapter 157, Hearings and Appeals, 01:56:57.023 --> 01:56:59.812 Subchapter D, Independent Hearing Examiners, 01:56:59.812 --> 01:57:03.442 Section 157.41, Certification Criteria 01:57:03.442 --> 01:57:05.768 for Independent Hearing Examiners 01:57:05.768 --> 01:57:07.562 with an effective date of 20 days 01:57:07.562 --> 01:57:11.171 after filing as adopted with the Texas Register. 01:57:11.171 --> 01:57:13.907 And, basically, what this would do is it would specify 01:57:13.907 --> 01:57:16.257 that the Commissioner can take action 01:57:16.257 --> 01:57:19.149 against an Independent Hearing Examiner certification 01:57:19.149 --> 01:57:21.610 for violating statutory requirements. 01:57:21.610 --> 01:57:24.981 But I have asked our resident attorney, Mr. Rowley, 01:57:24.981 --> 01:57:26.395 to dig into the weeds a little bit 01:57:26.395 --> 01:57:28.053 with a simple explanation. 01:57:28.053 --> 01:57:29.136 Sure, yeah. 01:57:30.016 --> 01:57:31.258 It is. 01:57:31.258 --> 01:57:35.425 And so the staff and the Commissioner expressed a concern 01:57:37.569 --> 01:57:42.394 about the Commissioner's inability to do two things. 01:57:42.394 --> 01:57:45.061 One is to renew a certification. 01:57:45.990 --> 01:57:48.393 Hearing Examiners are certified for a one-year period 01:57:48.393 --> 01:57:49.471 of time. 01:57:49.471 --> 01:57:52.138 And as the rule currently reads, 01:57:53.155 --> 01:57:57.322 the Commissioner doesn't have the discretion not to renew 01:57:58.417 --> 01:58:02.982 unless an attorney who appeared before the Hearing Examiner 01:58:02.982 --> 01:58:04.680 files a complaint. 01:58:04.680 --> 01:58:07.275 That's the impetus for non-renewal. 01:58:07.275 --> 01:58:10.539 As rewritten, as proposed before us, 01:58:10.539 --> 01:58:14.992 the Commissioner can do that on his own discretion. 01:58:14.992 --> 01:58:18.992 For application of inappropriate legal standards, 01:58:20.026 --> 01:58:22.164 particularly, specifically. 01:58:22.164 --> 01:58:24.410 The other items are listed there, 01:58:24.410 --> 01:58:28.127 but the one that is added to the rule is 01:58:28.127 --> 01:58:30.301 application of appropriate legal standard. 01:58:30.301 --> 01:58:33.892 So now rather than having to have a complaint 01:58:33.892 --> 01:58:36.395 by an attorney who has to appear 01:58:36.395 --> 01:58:40.562 before that Hearing Examiner on multiple occasions, 01:58:41.528 --> 01:58:44.894 the Commissioner can do it on his own discretion. 01:58:44.894 --> 01:58:47.719 And then the second part of it is, 01:58:47.719 --> 01:58:50.606 if during that one year period of time, 01:58:50.606 --> 01:58:53.249 that Hearing Examiner fails 01:58:53.249 --> 01:58:56.077 to timely issue a recommendation. 01:58:56.077 --> 01:59:00.132 In other words, delays getting a decision out, 01:59:00.132 --> 01:59:02.646 and then also has served as an agent or representative 01:59:02.646 --> 01:59:05.045 of the school district, served as an agent 01:59:05.045 --> 01:59:06.536 or representative of the teacher. 01:59:06.536 --> 01:59:10.537 In other words, has a bias because they have represented 01:59:10.537 --> 01:59:11.870 other litigants. 01:59:13.045 --> 01:59:15.845 And then failed to timely issue a recommendation. 01:59:15.845 --> 01:59:20.012 And so that's, it's broadening the Commissioner's discretion 01:59:21.795 --> 01:59:25.581 to take action with regard to a Hearing Examiner 01:59:25.581 --> 01:59:28.487 who fails to come out with a recommendation 01:59:28.487 --> 01:59:29.981 in a timely manner. 01:59:29.981 --> 01:59:33.857 It does provide notice and an opportunity to respond 01:59:33.857 --> 01:59:35.629 for that Hearing Examiner. 01:59:35.629 --> 01:59:38.546 And so that's the gist of the rule. 01:59:41.779 --> 01:59:43.279 Yes, Miss Perez. 01:59:44.721 --> 01:59:46.125 Okay, Mr. Rowley, I apologize 01:59:46.125 --> 01:59:49.850 because some of this legalese I do not quite comprehend. 01:59:49.850 --> 01:59:53.324 And my concern is due process, okay? 01:59:53.324 --> 01:59:57.491 So what I believe I'm hearing is that our Commissioner, 01:59:58.822 --> 02:00:01.034 if this were to pass, our Commissioner would have 02:00:01.034 --> 02:00:03.867 unilateral decision making ability 02:00:05.349 --> 02:00:09.705 and that the individuals would be denied due process. 02:00:09.705 --> 02:00:11.620 So if I'm misunderstanding, will you please explain it 02:00:11.620 --> 02:00:14.286 in another way so that I can understand? 02:00:14.286 --> 02:00:15.366 Sure, absolutely. 02:00:15.366 --> 02:00:17.298 And that's a great question. 02:00:17.298 --> 02:00:20.590 Due process is a constitutional right, obviously. 02:00:20.590 --> 02:00:24.090 And opportunity to respond and to be heard 02:00:25.483 --> 02:00:27.378 satisfies due process. 02:00:27.378 --> 02:00:30.878 So that actually occurs at multiple levels 02:00:33.310 --> 02:00:34.711 if we adopt this rule. 02:00:34.711 --> 02:00:38.631 The first, at the first level, is the Commissioner himself 02:00:38.631 --> 02:00:41.563 or herself, whoever it may be in the future. 02:00:41.563 --> 02:00:46.227 Then that Hearing Examiner has a right to respond, 02:00:46.227 --> 02:00:49.190 to be heard as to why they failed to issue 02:00:49.190 --> 02:00:52.412 a timely recommendation, which is essentially what that is. 02:00:52.412 --> 02:00:53.638 Directly to the Commissioner 02:00:53.638 --> 02:00:55.238 or is there a third-party arbitrator? 02:00:55.238 --> 02:00:58.630 That's the first level of due process. 02:00:58.630 --> 02:01:00.362 Just the two of them? 02:01:00.362 --> 02:01:01.783 Yes, essentially that's right. 02:01:01.783 --> 02:01:03.835 But then there's another level of due process as well 02:01:03.835 --> 02:01:06.252 that's built into the system. 02:01:07.565 --> 02:01:10.596 And that is that if the Commissioner takes action 02:01:10.596 --> 02:01:14.763 against a Hearing Examiner in mid-certification period, 02:01:15.966 --> 02:01:17.873 not at the end of the certification 02:01:17.873 --> 02:01:22.231 but in mid-certification period, there's a right of appeal 02:01:22.231 --> 02:01:25.129 that's called a property right under the law. 02:01:25.129 --> 02:01:29.780 And so there's a right of appeal to a district court 02:01:29.780 --> 02:01:30.912 and then a court of appeals 02:01:30.912 --> 02:01:34.965 and then as far as that Hearing Examiner 02:01:34.965 --> 02:01:37.533 or the Commissioner wants to take it. 02:01:37.533 --> 02:01:41.219 So there are due process rights built in. 02:01:41.219 --> 02:01:42.302 Mr. Cortez. 02:01:43.432 --> 02:01:46.360 So I wasn't in favor of the change. 02:01:46.360 --> 02:01:51.213 I think what we've already done and what's currently in rule 02:01:51.213 --> 02:01:53.102 gives the Commissioner enough authority. 02:01:53.102 --> 02:01:57.019 This just kind of gives him complete authority, 02:01:58.014 --> 02:01:59.442 I guess, if you would. 02:01:59.442 --> 02:02:02.459 Maybe I'm not saying that correctly, Mr. Rowley. 02:02:02.459 --> 02:02:04.376 But it does broaden it. 02:02:06.627 --> 02:02:09.932 Where he's like the sole decider of this. 02:02:09.932 --> 02:02:14.099 And I think from having heard staff's presentation 02:02:17.579 --> 02:02:19.782 and having heard the testimony, 02:02:19.782 --> 02:02:22.202 one of the testifiers said that there's been three instances 02:02:22.202 --> 02:02:23.202 in 20 years. 02:02:24.346 --> 02:02:27.218 Staff said, well, to our knowledge it was only two 02:02:27.218 --> 02:02:28.218 in 20 years. 02:02:29.695 --> 02:02:32.686 And all the testifiers testified to the fact 02:02:32.686 --> 02:02:35.241 that this wasn't necessary. 02:02:35.241 --> 02:02:39.747 What was necessary was that we provide additional training. 02:02:39.747 --> 02:02:42.108 So in that one-day, 10-hour training, 02:02:42.108 --> 02:02:46.275 only three hours of it is in public education law. 02:02:47.150 --> 02:02:51.463 And so you've got folks that are coming in 02:02:51.463 --> 02:02:55.169 and they believe, in a three-hour segment, 02:02:55.169 --> 02:03:00.054 that that isn't enough, that that needed to be changed. 02:03:00.054 --> 02:03:02.134 And they needed to have additional training 02:03:02.134 --> 02:03:05.134 so that those two or three instances, 02:03:06.554 --> 02:03:08.975 where I guess the concern happened, 02:03:08.975 --> 02:03:13.274 was in the misapplication of the correct standard, 02:03:13.274 --> 02:03:16.095 which falls under the three-hour portion of the training, 02:03:16.095 --> 02:03:20.178 not the other seven-hour portion of the training. 02:03:21.136 --> 02:03:24.089 And so that's where I had my conflict 02:03:24.089 --> 02:03:27.756 and that's why I would urge you guys not to support 02:03:27.756 --> 02:03:30.089 the action of this adoption. 02:03:34.329 --> 02:03:36.031 Yeah, I'd like to call on Mr. Byer first 02:03:36.031 --> 02:03:36.864 before we go around. 02:03:36.864 --> 02:03:39.739 He has a point of clarification. 02:03:39.739 --> 02:03:42.962 Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that the two cases 02:03:42.962 --> 02:03:45.798 that we currently have were under the current rule 02:03:45.798 --> 02:03:49.715 that says a written comment has to be delivered 02:03:50.851 --> 02:03:53.694 by an attorney on the case. 02:03:53.694 --> 02:03:55.570 So those were the two examples that we have 02:03:55.570 --> 02:03:57.717 and that's one of the issues that is before you, 02:03:57.717 --> 02:04:02.030 whether to maintain that or to remove that requirement. 02:04:02.030 --> 02:04:04.321 We had identified several other cases 02:04:04.321 --> 02:04:09.031 where the Independent Hearing Examiner had applied 02:04:09.031 --> 02:04:12.228 the incorrect legal standard. 02:04:12.228 --> 02:04:15.374 That is more voluminous than the two cases. 02:04:15.374 --> 02:04:18.791 I think we had identified up to 12 or so. 02:04:19.628 --> 02:04:22.340 Now that is not to say that that is a huge amount. 02:04:22.340 --> 02:04:24.277 It is to say that there is a difference 02:04:24.277 --> 02:04:27.974 between the two cases that came before the Commissioner 02:04:27.974 --> 02:04:32.141 regarding whether or not for Independent Hearing Examiner 02:04:34.491 --> 02:04:37.174 to lose their certification. 02:04:37.174 --> 02:04:39.870 That is limited by submitting a written comment 02:04:39.870 --> 02:04:42.300 from an attorney currently 02:04:42.300 --> 02:04:46.467 versus how often an inaccurate or the wrong legal standard 02:04:48.936 --> 02:04:53.103 has been applied by an Independent Hearing Examiner. 02:04:57.464 --> 02:04:58.558 Thank you, Madam Chair. 02:04:58.558 --> 02:05:01.824 So the way that Member Cortez understood the conversation, 02:05:01.824 --> 02:05:04.273 and thank you for the clarification, Von, 02:05:04.273 --> 02:05:07.646 that I had understood the same way that Mr. Cortez did. 02:05:07.646 --> 02:05:10.396 And I voted against this as well. 02:05:11.657 --> 02:05:13.140 For the same reasons that he mentioned, 02:05:13.140 --> 02:05:17.857 but I also, you know, I would ask the board not to vote 02:05:17.857 --> 02:05:20.221 in favor of this change as well. 02:05:20.221 --> 02:05:22.884 But regardless of how this vote turns out, 02:05:22.884 --> 02:05:27.218 I would also ask if perhaps we can have, at a later date, 02:05:27.218 --> 02:05:28.265 have an agenda item. 02:05:28.265 --> 02:05:30.481 This item has to close in order for us to take 02:05:30.481 --> 02:05:34.250 any further action, but I would ask that perhaps we revisit 02:05:34.250 --> 02:05:35.597 what that training looks like 02:05:35.597 --> 02:05:39.764 and perhaps change the amount of hours in school law 02:05:41.206 --> 02:05:44.460 versus how many hours of just general law training 02:05:44.460 --> 02:05:47.356 these individuals have before they're certified. 02:05:47.356 --> 02:05:48.189 Thank you. 02:05:52.631 --> 02:05:53.981 Yes, Mr. Byer. 02:05:53.981 --> 02:05:57.404 So under your current rules, you require 12 hours 02:05:57.404 --> 02:06:01.571 of continuing legal education in order for an attorney 02:06:03.012 --> 02:06:05.582 to be an Independent Hearing Examiner. 02:06:05.582 --> 02:06:07.867 That is split between three hours required 02:06:07.867 --> 02:06:10.073 to be focused specifically on school law 02:06:10.073 --> 02:06:12.906 and seven hours on trial advocacy. 02:06:16.650 --> 02:06:20.817 We could, if you all would like, bring a further update 02:06:22.758 --> 02:06:25.951 once this rule is closed that could address that 02:06:25.951 --> 02:06:28.310 and allow you to either determine you want 02:06:28.310 --> 02:06:30.705 to keep the 10 hours but you want to move it 02:06:30.705 --> 02:06:33.574 between trial advocacy and school law, 02:06:33.574 --> 02:06:35.917 or to expand that greater. 02:06:35.917 --> 02:06:39.327 I would mention, just so you all would know, 02:06:39.327 --> 02:06:41.974 that for this rule to become active 02:06:41.974 --> 02:06:46.141 it requires a two-thirds vote, otherwise it does not become active 02:06:47.531 --> 02:06:50.630 until the beginning of the following school year. 02:06:50.630 --> 02:06:53.411 Therefore we couldn't open it again 02:06:53.411 --> 02:06:57.494 until the beginning of the following school year. 02:06:58.645 --> 02:07:01.402 You mean even to discuss the issue 02:07:01.402 --> 02:07:05.121 with the inclusive training even or no? 02:07:05.121 --> 02:07:05.954 That's correct. 02:07:05.954 --> 02:07:09.158 Since the training is within the same rule 02:07:09.158 --> 02:07:11.671 that you're currently in, we're only allowed 02:07:11.671 --> 02:07:14.708 to have that rule open one time. 02:07:14.708 --> 02:07:18.208 We can't have it open for multiple issues. 02:07:19.969 --> 02:07:22.386 So if you take the vote here, 02:07:23.640 --> 02:07:26.199 that means that one's waiting to become effective. 02:07:26.199 --> 02:07:28.952 And until that's effective, we can't reopen a new one. 02:07:28.952 --> 02:07:30.514 So did everyone understand that? 02:07:30.514 --> 02:07:32.978 I want to make sure everybody understands that. 02:07:32.978 --> 02:07:37.346 We will not be able to discuss the training need increase 02:07:37.346 --> 02:07:41.971 on an agenda for another, almost a year, right? 02:07:41.971 --> 02:07:43.921 Unless this gets two-thirds. 02:07:43.921 --> 02:07:45.778 Unless we get two-thirds. 02:07:45.778 --> 02:07:47.136 If this gets two-thirds, we can. 02:07:47.136 --> 02:07:48.343 That's correct. 02:07:48.343 --> 02:07:51.148 If this gets two-thirds, then it becomes effective 20 days 02:07:51.148 --> 02:07:52.408 after filing. 02:07:52.408 --> 02:07:53.241 Correct. 02:07:53.241 --> 02:07:54.837 Miss... 02:07:54.837 --> 02:07:57.803 Anyone else want to speak for the first time? 02:07:57.803 --> 02:07:59.173 Mr. Cortez. 02:07:59.173 --> 02:08:01.556 Von, did I hear you correctly 02:08:01.556 --> 02:08:03.170 or did I understand what you said correctly? 02:08:03.170 --> 02:08:07.337 You said if it fails to pass, it becomes law anyway? 02:08:10.254 --> 02:08:11.546 Did you say that? Did I hear that? 02:08:11.546 --> 02:08:13.523 I'm sorry, no, that is not what I said. 02:08:13.523 --> 02:08:14.684 Let me clarify. 02:08:14.684 --> 02:08:16.547 You have a vote. 02:08:16.547 --> 02:08:19.715 In order for the rule to pass, it requires a majority 02:08:19.715 --> 02:08:23.513 of the members to vote in favor of it. 02:08:23.513 --> 02:08:26.511 That means that that rule will go on its journey 02:08:26.511 --> 02:08:28.512 to become effective. 02:08:28.512 --> 02:08:31.989 You have a statute that says your rules aren't effective 02:08:31.989 --> 02:08:34.377 until the beginning of the school year 02:08:34.377 --> 02:08:37.770 that occurs 90 days after you adopt the rule. 02:08:37.770 --> 02:08:41.787 So in order to suspend that statutory requirement, 02:08:41.787 --> 02:08:43.486 it requires a two-thirds vote. 02:08:43.486 --> 02:08:47.676 So if two-thirds of the members vote in favor of this, 02:08:47.676 --> 02:08:49.758 it will have an immediate effective date. 02:08:49.758 --> 02:08:53.336 Otherwise, the statute says it will have an effective date, 02:08:53.336 --> 02:08:54.772 in this instance, at the beginning 02:08:54.772 --> 02:08:57.032 of the subsequent school year. 02:08:57.032 --> 02:09:00.420 And so therefore, if it receives a majority vote 02:09:00.420 --> 02:09:03.681 but not a two-thirds vote, you won't be able to reopen this rule 02:09:03.681 --> 02:09:05.591 until this rule becomes effective. 02:09:05.591 --> 02:09:09.008 So I would bring this back to you in August. 02:09:09.952 --> 02:09:13.779 So I guess to clarify my question a little bit more. 02:09:13.779 --> 02:09:18.578 If it gets two-thirds, it becomes effective immediately. 02:09:18.578 --> 02:09:21.411 If it only gets a simple majority, 02:09:22.405 --> 02:09:24.465 it still becomes effective 02:09:24.465 --> 02:09:26.313 but at the start of the school year. 02:09:26.313 --> 02:09:29.521 So the only way to defeat it if it's a majority 02:09:29.521 --> 02:09:31.277 in the opposition, 02:09:31.277 --> 02:09:35.388 not necessarily if you don't make the two-thirds. 02:09:35.388 --> 02:09:37.388 That is correct. 02:09:47.213 --> 02:09:48.589 So go ahead with your informational questions. 02:09:48.589 --> 02:09:50.806 No, just, and I'm sorry if this sounds elementary, 02:09:50.806 --> 02:09:53.051 but just for further clarification. 02:09:53.051 --> 02:09:57.266 So if a two-thirds vote passes right now, 02:09:57.266 --> 02:10:00.845 then we can immediately start discussing the training? 02:10:00.845 --> 02:10:01.870 Okay. 02:10:01.870 --> 02:10:02.888 That's correct. 02:10:02.888 --> 02:10:04.857 That's why I wanted to make sure everybody understood 02:10:04.857 --> 02:10:06.913 that differentiation. 02:10:06.913 --> 02:10:08.095 And Miss Cargill, you haven't spoken, 02:10:08.095 --> 02:10:10.428 so I'll let you speak first. 02:10:11.637 --> 02:10:14.658 Well, I voted in favor of this because to me, 02:10:14.658 --> 02:10:17.491 this actually supports the teacher 02:10:19.014 --> 02:10:21.023 because it gives the Commissioner an opportunity 02:10:21.023 --> 02:10:23.333 to look at, you know, has the correct legal standard 02:10:23.333 --> 02:10:27.333 been met or has it been done in a timely manner. 02:10:28.680 --> 02:10:30.499 And so, you know, the Commissioner, 02:10:30.499 --> 02:10:34.855 in essence this gives him, I think, my opinion, some teeth. 02:10:34.855 --> 02:10:37.033 And it helps him to stand with the teacher 02:10:37.033 --> 02:10:39.343 and make sure things are done accurately. 02:10:39.343 --> 02:10:41.344 So that's why I voted for it. 02:10:41.344 --> 02:10:42.630 Mr. Rowley. 02:10:42.630 --> 02:10:46.414 To speak to the point of the number of times, 02:10:46.414 --> 02:10:48.774 the number of complaints that have come forth, 02:10:48.774 --> 02:10:51.119 that's exactly what this rule is trying to remedy. 02:10:51.119 --> 02:10:54.121 Because in order for a complaint to come forward currently 02:10:54.121 --> 02:10:56.805 under the rule, it has to be made by an attorney 02:10:56.805 --> 02:10:58.808 who is faced with appearing 02:10:58.808 --> 02:11:03.434 before that same Hearing Examiner on multiple occasions. 02:11:03.434 --> 02:11:04.796 So I can tell you as an attorney, 02:11:04.796 --> 02:11:07.892 I'm not gonna file a complaint against a judge 02:11:07.892 --> 02:11:10.389 that I'm going to have to appear in front of 02:11:10.389 --> 02:11:14.141 on a number of occurrences going forward 02:11:14.141 --> 02:11:18.058 unless I was just real sure that that complaint 02:11:19.058 --> 02:11:20.772 was gonna be heard and acted upon, 02:11:20.772 --> 02:11:22.842 because otherwise, judges are human, 02:11:22.842 --> 02:11:24.163 they're gonna hold that against you. 02:11:24.163 --> 02:11:26.690 So I think the fact there are a small number of complaints 02:11:26.690 --> 02:11:30.661 doesn't speak to the number of violations, 02:11:30.661 --> 02:11:33.640 it speaks to the chilling effect that this rule has 02:11:33.640 --> 02:11:36.473 on attorneys making the complaint. 02:11:38.612 --> 02:11:40.009 Thank you for clarifying that, 02:11:40.009 --> 02:11:42.092 because that actually is the issue, 02:11:42.092 --> 02:11:43.904 as the Commissioner saw it. 02:11:43.904 --> 02:11:45.709 I think I like the judges where you practice. 02:11:45.709 --> 02:11:48.292 Yeah, Miss Perez, Miss Perez. 02:11:49.476 --> 02:11:53.143 Mr. Rowley and our legal staff, thank you. 02:11:55.221 --> 02:11:59.167 The real attorney, okay, not the jackrabbit's attorney. 02:11:59.167 --> 02:12:01.301 (laughs) 02:12:01.301 --> 02:12:02.509 So-- 02:12:02.509 --> 02:12:06.250 That's not how I meant it, Mr. Bradley. 02:12:06.250 --> 02:12:09.758 Okay, so what I'm hearing, right, 02:12:09.758 --> 02:12:12.549 is that if there are only two complaints in 20 years, 02:12:12.549 --> 02:12:15.305 this seems like a large blanket to cover a problem 02:12:15.305 --> 02:12:17.021 that doesn't exist. 02:12:17.021 --> 02:12:19.127 Because two complaints in 20 years doesn't sound 02:12:19.127 --> 02:12:22.189 like we need a whole big change to fix something 02:12:22.189 --> 02:12:24.856 that's almost nonexistent, okay? 02:12:26.858 --> 02:12:29.278 I understand that you're talking about... 02:12:29.278 --> 02:12:31.276 I want to make a complaint. 02:12:31.276 --> 02:12:33.015 I have to go to the Commissioner myself. 02:12:33.015 --> 02:12:35.040 And then the Commissioner hears it himself 02:12:35.040 --> 02:12:36.782 about the complaint that I just filed. 02:12:36.782 --> 02:12:39.221 You're an attorney appearing in front of a judge, 02:12:39.221 --> 02:12:41.539 that's what you do, yes. 02:12:41.539 --> 02:12:43.537 So I have to ask the judge to listen to me 02:12:43.537 --> 02:12:45.454 and then be listened... 02:12:46.578 --> 02:12:49.078 This rule does not make sense. 02:12:50.321 --> 02:12:51.154 Yeah. 02:12:51.154 --> 02:12:54.938 So I'm an attorney appearing in front of a Hearing Examiner. 02:12:54.938 --> 02:12:58.229 And that Hearing Examiner has applied 02:12:58.229 --> 02:13:00.368 an inappropriate legal standard. 02:13:00.368 --> 02:13:03.297 That's the specific grounds we're talking about here. 02:13:03.297 --> 02:13:05.681 Has filed an inappropriate legal standard. 02:13:05.681 --> 02:13:09.596 In order for the Commissioner to take action 02:13:09.596 --> 02:13:13.961 against that Hearing Examiner, I have to go, as the attorney, 02:13:13.961 --> 02:13:16.003 complain of that judge. 02:13:16.003 --> 02:13:19.476 And the same judge, I have to make that complaint 02:13:19.476 --> 02:13:20.750 to the Commissioner. 02:13:20.750 --> 02:13:24.417 Then I appear against that Hearing Examiner, 02:13:25.662 --> 02:13:28.773 that same judge, and I essentially testify, look, 02:13:28.773 --> 02:13:32.606 they applied the inappropriate legal standard. 02:13:34.196 --> 02:13:36.697 So I have to be a witness, as an attorney, 02:13:36.697 --> 02:13:40.639 against a judge against whom I'm making the complaint. 02:13:40.639 --> 02:13:44.607 I think that's why you've only seen three instances 02:13:44.607 --> 02:13:48.535 of complaints because what attorney who wants to continue 02:13:48.535 --> 02:13:50.646 to represent litigants in front of this judge 02:13:50.646 --> 02:13:52.860 is gonna go make a complaint against him? 02:13:52.860 --> 02:13:55.260 It has a chilling effect on that. 02:13:55.260 --> 02:13:56.782 That's the point. 02:13:56.782 --> 02:13:58.878 But then the other thing that Mr. Byer pointed out 02:13:58.878 --> 02:14:02.590 in the hearing yesterday, or the committee meeting, 02:14:02.590 --> 02:14:05.513 was that there were actually 12 occasions 02:14:05.513 --> 02:14:08.830 when they had identified the inappropriate legal standard 02:14:08.830 --> 02:14:10.322 being applied. 02:14:10.322 --> 02:14:12.980 Some of those worked to the detriment of the teacher, 02:14:12.980 --> 02:14:15.864 some of those worked to the detriment of the district. 02:14:15.864 --> 02:14:18.781 And so it's kind of an even result. 02:14:23.983 --> 02:14:26.136 Any other questions or discussion 02:14:26.136 --> 02:14:28.015 on this particular item? 02:14:28.015 --> 02:14:31.745 Okay, so members, before us is an affirmative vote 02:14:31.745 --> 02:14:34.236 of two-thirds of the members of the board, 02:14:34.236 --> 02:14:37.254 we will be able to make this effective 20 days after filing 02:14:37.254 --> 02:14:39.465 is adopted with the Texas Register. 02:14:39.465 --> 02:14:41.915 With the motion before us is to approve for second reading 02:14:41.915 --> 02:14:45.425 and final adoption proposed amendments to 19 TAC, 02:14:45.425 --> 02:14:48.837 Chapter 157, Hearing and Appeals, Subchapter D, 02:14:48.837 --> 02:14:52.716 Independent Hearing Examiners, 157.41, 02:14:52.716 --> 02:14:56.504 Certification Criteria for Independent Hearing Examiners. 02:14:56.504 --> 02:14:58.655 And two-thirds vote will make it, like I said, 02:14:58.655 --> 02:15:00.690 effective 20 days after filing is adopted 02:15:00.690 --> 02:15:02.336 with the Texas Register. 02:15:02.336 --> 02:15:05.336 All those in favor, raise your hand. 02:15:16.650 --> 02:15:20.817 Right, if you don't vote for it, you can't, right. 02:15:23.419 --> 02:15:27.086 And then all those opposed, raise your hand. 02:15:32.707 --> 02:15:35.040 A majority but not two-thirds. 02:15:35.040 --> 02:15:39.516 So now, just to be clear, there will be no discussion 02:15:39.516 --> 02:15:42.613 on increasing the training until after the start 02:15:42.613 --> 02:15:44.424 of the next school year, correct? 02:15:44.424 --> 02:15:45.658 Did I say that correctly? 02:15:45.658 --> 02:15:47.316 That's correct. 02:15:47.316 --> 02:15:51.451 So the rule will become effective August, 02:15:51.451 --> 02:15:55.824 and at that time, whatever your nearest meeting is... 02:15:55.824 --> 02:15:56.914 The September meeting. 02:15:56.914 --> 02:15:58.159 Yeah. 02:15:58.159 --> 02:16:00.784 We can put it on something at that time. 02:16:00.784 --> 02:16:05.676 And in the meantime, I'll discuss, I'm not sure. 02:16:05.676 --> 02:16:08.785 You do usually follow a discussion phase, 02:16:08.785 --> 02:16:11.668 then a first reading, then a second reading. 02:16:11.668 --> 02:16:15.394 So since the discussion phase is actually just imposed 02:16:15.394 --> 02:16:19.561 by your operating procedures, not official state action, 02:16:20.670 --> 02:16:23.318 I may be able to bring a discussion forward, 02:16:23.318 --> 02:16:27.393 I might be able to do something earlier in the summer. 02:16:27.393 --> 02:16:30.709 Oh, do it at the June meeting perhaps. 02:16:30.709 --> 02:16:32.986 At least the discussion. 02:16:32.986 --> 02:16:34.552 Just for the discussion phase. 02:16:34.552 --> 02:16:35.385 Okay. 02:16:38.521 --> 02:16:39.540 Okay, so... 02:16:39.540 --> 02:16:42.069 (mumbles) 02:16:42.069 --> 02:16:42.902 We just... 02:16:44.854 --> 02:16:46.737 (mumbles) 02:16:46.737 --> 02:16:47.570 Okay. 02:16:47.570 --> 02:16:49.036 Alright. 02:16:49.036 --> 02:16:51.119 So the motion is adopted. 02:16:53.236 --> 02:16:55.247 Okay, you want me to continue? 02:16:55.247 --> 02:16:56.403 Yes, I'm sorry. 02:16:56.403 --> 02:17:00.570 Alright, so the next item is found in your minutes 02:17:02.488 --> 02:17:06.968 on page two and then it continues on page three. 02:17:06.968 --> 02:17:10.468 And in your board book, it's on page 4-29. 02:17:11.365 --> 02:17:15.355 So it's recommended, and this is an SBEC item, by the way. 02:17:15.355 --> 02:17:16.756 It's recommended by the committee 02:17:16.756 --> 02:17:19.450 that the State Board of Education take no action 02:17:19.450 --> 02:17:23.497 on the proposed revisions to 19 TAC, Chapter 231, 02:17:23.497 --> 02:17:25.875 Requirements for Public School Personnel Assignments, 02:17:25.875 --> 02:17:28.905 Subchapter C, Grade Six through Eight Assignments, 02:17:28.905 --> 02:17:31.992 and Subchapter E, Grades Nine through 12. 02:17:31.992 --> 02:17:35.796 And this item, members, incorporated some changes 02:17:35.796 --> 02:17:39.046 to CTE courses that the board approved. 02:17:40.016 --> 02:17:42.508 It also was about training 02:17:42.508 --> 02:17:45.346 and in state and federal requirements about work learning, 02:17:45.346 --> 02:17:47.207 safety, et cetera. 02:17:47.207 --> 02:17:50.457 But of more significance, on page 4-56, 02:17:51.433 --> 02:17:54.329 I think is what we had the most testimony about. 02:17:54.329 --> 02:17:56.662 So if you look on page 4-56, 02:17:59.062 --> 02:18:03.229 and the change is about the instructional practices 02:18:05.772 --> 02:18:07.845 or Principles of Education and Training. 02:18:07.845 --> 02:18:11.306 This is a cluster, so the Education and Training cluster, 02:18:11.306 --> 02:18:14.252 and it would affect the teaching credentials 02:18:14.252 --> 02:18:16.979 for four of those five classes. 02:18:16.979 --> 02:18:20.328 And you can see that what was stricken is, 02:18:20.328 --> 02:18:22.183 and the Commissioner spoke to us 02:18:22.183 --> 02:18:24.426 about the Grow Your Own initiative. 02:18:24.426 --> 02:18:26.793 And so this is, I think, a part of that 02:18:26.793 --> 02:18:29.259 that SBEC was trying to address. 02:18:29.259 --> 02:18:34.191 And so it would allow any teacher, valid classroom teacher 02:18:34.191 --> 02:18:36.395 or administrator certificate, 02:18:36.395 --> 02:18:38.732 if a teacher had that credential, 02:18:38.732 --> 02:18:42.097 to teach these four classes; whereas, right now, 02:18:42.097 --> 02:18:45.102 to teach any of these classes, you have to have a Home Ec 02:18:45.102 --> 02:18:46.813 or Homemaking certificate, 02:18:46.813 --> 02:18:49.986 Family and Consumer Science Composite certificate, 02:18:49.986 --> 02:18:52.815 or a Human Development and Family Studies certificate. 02:18:52.815 --> 02:18:55.518 So it strikes through those for four of the classes 02:18:55.518 --> 02:18:59.834 in the cluster and now if this is adopted, 02:18:59.834 --> 02:19:02.120 then a teacher could have any valid classroom teacher 02:19:02.120 --> 02:19:05.811 or administrator certificate to teach the classes. 02:19:05.811 --> 02:19:06.644 So... 02:19:09.800 --> 02:19:11.033 Yes, Doctor Ellis. 02:19:11.033 --> 02:19:12.120 There you have it. 02:19:12.120 --> 02:19:13.185 I do want to make a comment on this, 02:19:13.185 --> 02:19:15.638 and I would say it first, comment here, 02:19:15.638 --> 02:19:18.914 that I did vote for this item with that 02:19:18.914 --> 02:19:20.531 but I am actually going to change my vote 02:19:20.531 --> 02:19:24.060 and I want to explain why I'm gonna do that. 02:19:24.060 --> 02:19:27.585 I agree with the changes that SBEC made. 02:19:27.585 --> 02:19:29.976 This goes to what the Commissioner spoke about 02:19:29.976 --> 02:19:32.316 on the Grow Your Own and putting the best teacher 02:19:32.316 --> 02:19:34.762 in the class, but I'd made some comments, 02:19:34.762 --> 02:19:37.294 during the committee meeting yesterday, 02:19:37.294 --> 02:19:40.211 that the process this went through, 02:19:42.918 --> 02:19:45.295 I don't think it was fully followed properly. 02:19:45.295 --> 02:19:46.773 Or not that it wasn't followed properly, 02:19:46.773 --> 02:19:49.818 but I don't think the groups this affect got a fair shake 02:19:49.818 --> 02:19:50.651 with this. 02:19:50.651 --> 02:19:52.581 And what I mean by that is in the June meeting, 02:19:52.581 --> 02:19:56.227 where the discussion was, this was not on the agenda. 02:19:56.227 --> 02:19:57.832 When they had first reading in August, 02:19:57.832 --> 02:19:59.580 it was not on the agenda. 02:19:59.580 --> 02:20:00.943 When they met in October, 02:20:00.943 --> 02:20:04.292 it wasn't even on the agenda minutes that is still posted 02:20:04.292 --> 02:20:05.343 right now. 02:20:05.343 --> 02:20:07.890 It was a change that happened at the meeting 02:20:07.890 --> 02:20:11.254 in response to public comment that had occurred 02:20:11.254 --> 02:20:13.807 between first and second reading. 02:20:13.807 --> 02:20:17.411 So the people who came to us basically did not have 02:20:17.411 --> 02:20:21.314 the opportunity to know that this change was coming 02:20:21.314 --> 02:20:22.679 through the SBEC process. 02:20:22.679 --> 02:20:24.948 And I've heard SBEC and I think ours is the same rules 02:20:24.948 --> 02:20:25.824 with that. 02:20:25.824 --> 02:20:30.376 I think when you take privileges or rights away, 02:20:30.376 --> 02:20:32.173 it's best to do that in first reading 02:20:32.173 --> 02:20:35.261 where you have those who may be affected by this 02:20:35.261 --> 02:20:37.332 to have the opportunity to come forward. 02:20:37.332 --> 02:20:38.978 You know, if you're granting them extra authority 02:20:38.978 --> 02:20:41.046 or privilege, it's probably okay to make a change 02:20:41.046 --> 02:20:42.388 in second reading. 02:20:42.388 --> 02:20:46.454 So my comment is I don't agree with what SBEC, 02:20:46.454 --> 02:20:48.483 I don't disagree with what they did. 02:20:48.483 --> 02:20:50.149 I think I will vote for this in the future 02:20:50.149 --> 02:20:51.664 but I'm gonna recommend that it goes back 02:20:51.664 --> 02:20:54.285 through the full SBEC process, through the first 02:20:54.285 --> 02:20:57.407 and second hearings, let the full SBEC board hear 02:20:57.407 --> 02:20:59.884 all the different sides of the testimony that we did 02:20:59.884 --> 02:21:03.137 before final recommendation is made. 02:21:03.137 --> 02:21:05.654 So as I'm understanding it, what you're saying is 02:21:05.654 --> 02:21:08.317 that the recommended change did not come up 02:21:08.317 --> 02:21:09.353 at first reading. 02:21:09.353 --> 02:21:12.891 It didn't happen until the hearing to decide it 02:21:12.891 --> 02:21:14.770 at second reading, is that what you're... 02:21:14.770 --> 02:21:17.073 Not only was it just made at second reading, 02:21:17.073 --> 02:21:20.245 it wasn't even on the agenda that was posted 02:21:20.245 --> 02:21:21.513 for second reading. 02:21:21.513 --> 02:21:25.252 So if you go back right now to the October 6th SBEC meeting 02:21:25.252 --> 02:21:28.749 and you look at the agenda that's posted on that item, 02:21:28.749 --> 02:21:31.723 the strikethrough's not there. 02:21:31.723 --> 02:21:32.556 It was an item. 02:21:32.556 --> 02:21:34.251 It was an item. 02:21:34.251 --> 02:21:36.690 I think Mr. Franklin might want to-- 02:21:36.690 --> 02:21:38.274 Can we get a clarification on that? 02:21:38.274 --> 02:21:39.510 Because that doesn't make any sense to me. 02:21:39.510 --> 02:21:41.677 (mumbles) 02:21:46.766 --> 02:21:48.635 Ryan Franklin, TEA. 02:21:48.635 --> 02:21:51.531 This section of the rule was posted, 02:21:51.531 --> 02:21:55.588 but this specific change was not posted in public comment. 02:21:55.588 --> 02:21:59.138 And in response to public comments that SBEC received 02:21:59.138 --> 02:22:02.386 during the public comment period in the Texas Register, 02:22:02.386 --> 02:22:05.222 SBEC board voted to make this change 02:22:05.222 --> 02:22:07.061 because this section wasn't live and posted. 02:22:07.061 --> 02:22:10.649 So just like when this board makes a change at adoption 02:22:10.649 --> 02:22:13.002 based on public comments, that's the same process 02:22:13.002 --> 02:22:14.968 that was followed here. 02:22:14.968 --> 02:22:19.786 And this was expanding and not restricting the group 02:22:19.786 --> 02:22:22.428 who could teach this course. 02:22:22.428 --> 02:22:24.845 Oh, okay, so this is an expansion. 02:22:24.845 --> 02:22:25.678 That's correct. 02:22:25.678 --> 02:22:26.511 Okay. 02:22:28.053 --> 02:22:31.228 Yeah, Mr. Franklin up there, Mr. Rowley had a question of you 02:22:31.228 --> 02:22:32.766 and then Miss Perez-Diaz. 02:22:32.766 --> 02:22:34.429 (mumbles) 02:22:34.429 --> 02:22:35.762 Oh, okay, sorry. 02:22:36.644 --> 02:22:40.727 I thought I'd try to help you all conceptualize 02:22:41.659 --> 02:22:43.871 what actually goes on. 02:22:43.871 --> 02:22:46.061 There are really two different processes 02:22:46.061 --> 02:22:47.575 when you're developing a rule. 02:22:47.575 --> 02:22:49.829 One is your open meetings requirement. 02:22:49.829 --> 02:22:53.196 That's where you tell people, hey, we're gonna discuss this 02:22:53.196 --> 02:22:55.837 so that they can come and observe your discussion. 02:22:55.837 --> 02:22:58.436 There is another which is filing a rule 02:22:58.436 --> 02:23:00.019 for people to view. 02:23:01.588 --> 02:23:04.424 When we come in here for first reading, 02:23:04.424 --> 02:23:06.853 you post an open meeting that says, hey, 02:23:06.853 --> 02:23:10.407 these rules are up, we're going to look at them. 02:23:10.407 --> 02:23:14.574 That doesn't really become official until on Friday 02:23:15.767 --> 02:23:17.222 after you adopt it. 02:23:17.222 --> 02:23:19.988 And then we send it to the Secretary of State, 02:23:19.988 --> 02:23:22.337 and then it gets posted publicly 02:23:22.337 --> 02:23:24.528 and that starts the comment period. 02:23:24.528 --> 02:23:28.695 So similarly, you haven't adopted your second reading 02:23:31.517 --> 02:23:33.924 until Friday when we do it. 02:23:33.924 --> 02:23:37.027 Once you have the first reading to second reading, 02:23:37.027 --> 02:23:41.747 your ability to change things has become restricted 02:23:41.747 --> 02:23:44.489 because you can't suddenly introduce something 02:23:44.489 --> 02:23:47.303 that no one had noticed about on it. 02:23:47.303 --> 02:23:50.545 But that notice is required because of the posting 02:23:50.545 --> 02:23:52.419 with the Secretary of State. 02:23:52.419 --> 02:23:54.706 I think a lot of these issues get confused 02:23:54.706 --> 02:23:57.885 with this notice for your open meeting 02:23:57.885 --> 02:24:01.037 versus what's going on with the administrative procedure, 02:24:01.037 --> 02:24:04.877 where you have an official posting and we look at that. 02:24:04.877 --> 02:24:07.469 You have flexibility to move things. 02:24:07.469 --> 02:24:09.323 What you don't have the flexibility to do is 02:24:09.323 --> 02:24:12.963 to be so radically different that someone whose rights 02:24:12.963 --> 02:24:15.783 could be affected would not have known 02:24:15.783 --> 02:24:19.950 that extended out of what your first reading adoption was. 02:24:23.900 --> 02:24:28.108 And that is not to disagree with any of the comments 02:24:28.108 --> 02:24:30.465 we've heard, just to help you all see 02:24:30.465 --> 02:24:32.040 that there's really two things going on, 02:24:32.040 --> 02:24:35.587 open meetings and an administrative procedures act. 02:24:35.587 --> 02:24:37.053 Can I ask a question of Mr. Franklin? 02:24:37.053 --> 02:24:39.387 Yeah, you have a question. 02:24:39.387 --> 02:24:40.571 Him and then Miss Perez-Diaz. 02:24:40.571 --> 02:24:43.095 And so Mr. Franklin, could you share with the group 02:24:43.095 --> 02:24:45.678 what the gist of those comments 02:24:46.782 --> 02:24:49.817 and even where they came from? 02:24:49.817 --> 02:24:50.650 Sure. 02:24:50.650 --> 02:24:54.270 We received comments from five districts in the panhandle: 02:24:54.270 --> 02:24:57.671 Riona, Channing, Herford, Pampa, and Amarillo. 02:24:57.671 --> 02:25:00.468 And in each case, those superintendents 02:25:00.468 --> 02:25:02.082 or other district staff were requesting 02:25:02.082 --> 02:25:06.411 additional flexibility to offer these courses 02:25:06.411 --> 02:25:08.975 and to enhance what they're doing 02:25:08.975 --> 02:25:11.710 as far as offering this as an opportunity 02:25:11.710 --> 02:25:14.387 for their students and with an eye toward growing 02:25:14.387 --> 02:25:16.554 their own future teachers. 02:25:17.505 --> 02:25:20.830 Yeah, if you're answering that, yeah, go ahead, 02:25:20.830 --> 02:25:21.906 to keep the flow. 02:25:21.906 --> 02:25:23.998 Okay, so I learned that yesterday 02:25:23.998 --> 02:25:27.898 that five districts in my SBOE district 02:25:27.898 --> 02:25:29.838 brought this issue to the forefront 02:25:29.838 --> 02:25:34.005 during the public comment section, as Dr. Ellis said. 02:25:34.888 --> 02:25:37.721 And I talked to three of the five, 02:25:38.890 --> 02:25:41.928 actually got a text message this morning from the fourth. 02:25:41.928 --> 02:25:46.095 And what they indicated was that they're having difficulty 02:25:47.001 --> 02:25:51.056 attracting certified, recruiting, retaining, 02:25:51.056 --> 02:25:55.299 certified FCS teachers so that they're not able 02:25:55.299 --> 02:25:57.512 to offer these courses. 02:25:57.512 --> 02:26:00.896 Essentially, these are Principals of Education, 02:26:00.896 --> 02:26:05.063 this is the cluster for the teaching track out of CTE, 02:26:08.267 --> 02:26:09.952 or Family Consumer Sciences. 02:26:09.952 --> 02:26:11.669 That's what these courses involve. 02:26:11.669 --> 02:26:15.337 And these superintendents, and each one, 02:26:15.337 --> 02:26:16.965 well I talked to one CT director, 02:26:16.965 --> 02:26:18.748 but the rest of the superintendents said, 02:26:18.748 --> 02:26:22.255 I had one superintendent that said I had to go hire 02:26:22.255 --> 02:26:25.588 a long term sub at a large expense to me 02:26:27.141 --> 02:26:29.728 in order to even offer this class. 02:26:29.728 --> 02:26:31.978 I did that for the last two years, 02:26:31.978 --> 02:26:34.414 it's not gonna be available to me next year, 02:26:34.414 --> 02:26:36.844 so I may not offer the class at all. 02:26:36.844 --> 02:26:41.186 And so what happens is this impacts rural districts 02:26:41.186 --> 02:26:42.827 in such a way that they have to have 02:26:42.827 --> 02:26:45.579 a certified Family Consumer Science teacher 02:26:45.579 --> 02:26:48.496 in order to teach teaching classes. 02:26:49.582 --> 02:26:52.437 These are classes on how to teach. 02:26:52.437 --> 02:26:55.548 And so what they're essentially advocating is 02:26:55.548 --> 02:26:57.651 if we adopt the rule as amended, 02:26:57.651 --> 02:27:02.310 is that they can have a teacher with a teacher certification 02:27:02.310 --> 02:27:06.029 and teach that class on how to teach. 02:27:06.029 --> 02:27:09.658 So, in light of my rural school districts 02:27:09.658 --> 02:27:11.887 basically being the specifically the ones 02:27:11.887 --> 02:27:14.688 that talked about this, then I'm in favor of it. 02:27:14.688 --> 02:27:19.332 I'm very much sympathetic with what Dr. Ellis is saying 02:27:19.332 --> 02:27:22.359 and what the FCS folks testified to yesterday, 02:27:22.359 --> 02:27:24.622 but I've got to think in terms of rural districts 02:27:24.622 --> 02:27:29.374 and the opportunity to give, to even offer these classes 02:27:29.374 --> 02:27:32.027 and have a certified teacher teach it. 02:27:32.027 --> 02:27:33.821 By the way, it's not gonna be a warm-bodied coach. 02:27:33.821 --> 02:27:36.120 I think somebody said something about that. 02:27:36.120 --> 02:27:37.110 It's not gonna be that. 02:27:37.110 --> 02:27:40.538 It's going to be they're a certified teacher 02:27:40.538 --> 02:27:43.980 teaching these classes on Principles of Education. 02:27:43.980 --> 02:27:45.748 That's essentially what we're talking about. 02:27:45.748 --> 02:27:49.460 Miss Perez-Diaz, then Mr. Maynard, then Miss Perez. 02:27:49.460 --> 02:27:50.580 Thank you, Madam Chair. 02:27:50.580 --> 02:27:52.975 So part of the commentary. 02:27:52.975 --> 02:27:55.986 I was excited that Mr. Ellis would be changing his vote, 02:27:55.986 --> 02:27:59.639 as I was the dissenting vote on this issue. 02:27:59.639 --> 02:28:03.861 But I wanted to state that my vote has not changed. 02:28:03.861 --> 02:28:08.476 I clearly hear and sympathize with the individuals 02:28:08.476 --> 02:28:11.226 where resources are very limited, 02:28:12.959 --> 02:28:17.527 but at the same time I listened to our FCS teachers, 02:28:17.527 --> 02:28:21.132 and recognized that if these individuals are responsible 02:28:21.132 --> 02:28:24.676 for teaching the individuals who will then teach 02:28:24.676 --> 02:28:27.807 in the future, I think it's incumbent upon us 02:28:27.807 --> 02:28:31.650 to be very responsible about what certifications they have. 02:28:31.650 --> 02:28:35.156 And as we heard the testimony from these individuals, 02:28:35.156 --> 02:28:38.977 a lot of it has to do with child development. 02:28:38.977 --> 02:28:41.020 And so one of the suggestions that was made, 02:28:41.020 --> 02:28:45.187 by several testifiers, was that if the certification is 02:28:46.217 --> 02:28:50.509 the issue, perhaps, you know, identifying the great teacher 02:28:50.509 --> 02:28:52.453 on the campus that's already there, 02:28:52.453 --> 02:28:53.809 that's doing a great job, 02:28:53.809 --> 02:28:58.037 have this person just credit by exam, take this certification, 02:28:58.037 --> 02:29:01.958 and if they're equipped and they have the competency 02:29:01.958 --> 02:29:04.903 to pass this exam, then it's as simple as taking 02:29:04.903 --> 02:29:07.200 a credit by exam course to be certified. 02:29:07.200 --> 02:29:10.068 It's not a matter of having to go out, and necessarily, 02:29:10.068 --> 02:29:11.355 it's not a matter of having to go out 02:29:11.355 --> 02:29:13.805 and recruit additional people. 02:29:13.805 --> 02:29:16.546 So for that reason and, again, keeping in mind the fact 02:29:16.546 --> 02:29:19.149 that these educators are going to be responsible 02:29:19.149 --> 02:29:22.039 for educating our future educators, 02:29:22.039 --> 02:29:23.407 it's really important for me 02:29:23.407 --> 02:29:25.376 that they have the certification. 02:29:25.376 --> 02:29:26.644 I did have one question. 02:29:26.644 --> 02:29:30.345 So how much is a certification exam for something like this? 02:29:30.345 --> 02:29:32.014 Because she brings up a good point. 02:29:32.014 --> 02:29:33.248 $131. 02:29:33.248 --> 02:29:34.081 How much? 02:29:34.081 --> 02:29:35.237 $131. 02:29:35.237 --> 02:29:36.844 But it's a certification in Family 02:29:36.844 --> 02:29:38.677 and Consumer Sciences. 02:29:42.240 --> 02:29:45.459 I guess where's the overlap between a teaching, 02:29:45.459 --> 02:29:50.172 you know, what you would need to teach a teacher part 02:29:50.172 --> 02:29:52.187 and the Family and Consumer Science, 02:29:52.187 --> 02:29:53.183 like what's the overlap there? 02:29:53.183 --> 02:29:54.458 I don't even know. 02:29:54.458 --> 02:29:56.530 (mumbles) 02:29:56.530 --> 02:30:00.639 I know, but if we have to have a certification. 02:30:00.639 --> 02:30:02.356 Yeah, yeah. 02:30:02.356 --> 02:30:03.523 Yes. 02:30:17.796 --> 02:30:21.213 Madam Chairman, I received some concern, 02:30:26.245 --> 02:30:29.113 and I think that the substance of the concern was 02:30:29.113 --> 02:30:34.105 that perhaps that the posted requirements were inadequate. 02:30:34.105 --> 02:30:37.688 And I did have a conversation with Mr. Franklin 02:30:37.688 --> 02:30:40.972 and had a conversation with Von. 02:30:40.972 --> 02:30:45.670 And I looked at the posting and I think, in my opinion, 02:30:45.670 --> 02:30:49.078 that the posting itself probably met the letter of the law 02:30:49.078 --> 02:30:52.212 in terms of open meetings, in my opinion. 02:30:52.212 --> 02:30:55.682 But I will say this, is that those of you who served 02:30:55.682 --> 02:30:59.515 on local school boards, Mr. Cortez, Dr. Ellis. 02:31:00.363 --> 02:31:03.955 You know, that sometimes that we had discussions 02:31:03.955 --> 02:31:07.955 about just because you can post it a certain way 02:31:09.563 --> 02:31:11.744 doesn't mean that you should. 02:31:11.744 --> 02:31:15.272 Because the intent, the spirit of that, 02:31:15.272 --> 02:31:19.270 is is that you should always post something in such a way 02:31:19.270 --> 02:31:22.788 that affected stakeholders would know exactly what it is 02:31:22.788 --> 02:31:26.205 that you are about to do or propose to do, 02:31:27.324 --> 02:31:31.407 and that in, while the item I think it was posted 02:31:33.853 --> 02:31:37.457 to meet the letter of the law, when I look at that, 02:31:37.457 --> 02:31:39.949 some of the folks that may have been affected by that 02:31:39.949 --> 02:31:43.749 did not have adequate notice to understand 02:31:43.749 --> 02:31:45.578 what might happen. 02:31:45.578 --> 02:31:49.396 And I will tell you this is that I'm all for flexibility 02:31:49.396 --> 02:31:52.412 and I don't necessarily buy into the notion 02:31:52.412 --> 02:31:55.526 of people kind of protecting turf. 02:31:55.526 --> 02:31:57.274 I don't like that very much. 02:31:57.274 --> 02:32:00.425 I think the people that are qualified to teach, 02:32:00.425 --> 02:32:03.514 and we kind of went round and round years ago 02:32:03.514 --> 02:32:07.681 about Speech Communications on the same type of thing. 02:32:09.087 --> 02:32:12.681 That said, in my opinion, is that the way that it was posted 02:32:12.681 --> 02:32:15.549 and the way that it had happened with SBEC, 02:32:15.549 --> 02:32:17.682 I don't think that all the stakeholders really had 02:32:17.682 --> 02:32:20.175 an opportunity to be there, to be part of that discussion 02:32:20.175 --> 02:32:23.120 and possibly be part of a solution. 02:32:23.120 --> 02:32:25.954 In the short term, I think the school districts do have 02:32:25.954 --> 02:32:28.507 a means through emergency certifications 02:32:28.507 --> 02:32:30.790 or through alternative certification, 02:32:30.790 --> 02:32:33.328 if they want to address this, they can. 02:32:33.328 --> 02:32:37.246 If they're a little bit proactive and a little bit creative. 02:32:37.246 --> 02:32:39.860 But just for the reason that I don't believe 02:32:39.860 --> 02:32:43.045 that all the stakeholders had adequate opportunity 02:32:43.045 --> 02:32:45.774 with SBEC to have that collaboration, 02:32:45.774 --> 02:32:47.525 to have that discussion, 02:32:47.525 --> 02:32:51.692 I'm gonna be in favor of rejecting the rule today. 02:32:58.697 --> 02:33:01.084 (mumbles) 02:33:01.084 --> 02:33:02.274 Thank you, Madam Chair. 02:33:02.274 --> 02:33:06.441 So just, I guess, I wasn't in the committee room yesterday 02:33:08.334 --> 02:33:09.832 while this discussion was happening, 02:33:09.832 --> 02:33:12.999 but one of the questions that I had is 02:33:14.947 --> 02:33:19.104 if this will be a classroom teacher regardless, 02:33:19.104 --> 02:33:23.857 someone who has certification in some content area, 02:33:23.857 --> 02:33:27.096 which to me indicates that they've had some training 02:33:27.096 --> 02:33:30.298 on Human Development, hopefully. 02:33:30.298 --> 02:33:34.959 I think this is mostly elementary school teachers. 02:33:34.959 --> 02:33:36.907 And then I guess the other question I have, 02:33:36.907 --> 02:33:39.466 and maybe this is something you could help me understand 02:33:39.466 --> 02:33:43.843 is, while this is a course for high school students, 02:33:43.843 --> 02:33:48.010 when we set up mentor teachers at the college level 02:33:49.016 --> 02:33:52.046 or when we have student teachers in the field, 02:33:52.046 --> 02:33:53.673 their mentor teachers aren't required 02:33:53.673 --> 02:33:56.461 to have these certifications is my assumption. 02:33:56.461 --> 02:33:58.203 Is that correct? 02:33:58.203 --> 02:33:59.868 That is correct. 02:33:59.868 --> 02:34:01.831 So why, I guess my question would be 02:34:01.831 --> 02:34:04.866 why would it be any different? 02:34:04.866 --> 02:34:07.913 While I understand that those are important components, 02:34:07.913 --> 02:34:12.452 I think that a certified teacher in the classroom already 02:34:12.452 --> 02:34:16.103 should have some basic understanding of these skills 02:34:16.103 --> 02:34:17.629 and trainings. 02:34:17.629 --> 02:34:21.379 So I would vote in support of this amendment. 02:34:32.124 --> 02:34:33.622 Okay, so it is my understanding 02:34:33.622 --> 02:34:36.145 that it's not always an elementary teacher, 02:34:36.145 --> 02:34:37.389 an elementary school teacher. 02:34:37.389 --> 02:34:41.472 That's the hope but not always the result, right? 02:34:42.543 --> 02:34:47.000 So and when you're comparing a mentor teacher 02:34:47.000 --> 02:34:49.325 after you've already received your teacher certification 02:34:49.325 --> 02:34:51.473 and now you are actually in a classroom, 02:34:51.473 --> 02:34:53.840 you're much older than a high school student at that point, 02:34:53.840 --> 02:34:54.673 right? 02:34:54.673 --> 02:34:56.652 So you've had other experiences and additional education 02:34:56.652 --> 02:35:00.545 that these students will not have yet received. 02:35:00.545 --> 02:35:03.545 But for $131, is that correct, $131? 02:35:04.585 --> 02:35:07.918 So if we place our best teachers, right? 02:35:07.918 --> 02:35:11.075 Because it's not gonna be the warm-bodied coach, 02:35:11.075 --> 02:35:13.237 even though the warm-bodied coach has the credentials 02:35:13.237 --> 02:35:15.237 that you just mentioned. 02:35:16.095 --> 02:35:19.040 If they are our very best teachers, 02:35:19.040 --> 02:35:23.121 there's absolutely no reason that they cannot pass that test 02:35:23.121 --> 02:35:24.582 and become certified. 02:35:24.582 --> 02:35:25.457 There isn't. 02:35:25.457 --> 02:35:27.070 And it's a very dangerous precedent 02:35:27.070 --> 02:35:29.663 when we start saying, yes, anybody can teach anything 02:35:29.663 --> 02:35:31.475 because you've got something and check a box 02:35:31.475 --> 02:35:32.988 and now you can all go do it. 02:35:32.988 --> 02:35:35.363 That's not the truth, it's simply not. 02:35:35.363 --> 02:35:36.694 Get the certifications, 02:35:36.694 --> 02:35:38.668 because our students deserve the best. 02:35:38.668 --> 02:35:41.683 And I, too, spoke to several of my rural school districts, 02:35:41.683 --> 02:35:43.869 and they said if that's our very best teacher, 02:35:43.869 --> 02:35:45.474 they would be able to pass the test 02:35:45.474 --> 02:35:49.128 and $131 wouldn't prevent them from helping the teacher 02:35:49.128 --> 02:35:50.875 financially to pass the test 02:35:50.875 --> 02:35:52.856 so that our students would receive 02:35:52.856 --> 02:35:56.939 the best credentialed educators in the classroom. 02:36:07.175 --> 02:36:09.548 Well, that's not the same as speaking to them. 02:36:09.548 --> 02:36:11.196 Okay, well, I did want to clarify one thing. 02:36:11.196 --> 02:36:14.315 Remember there are five classes in this cluster 02:36:14.315 --> 02:36:17.021 and one of them is specifically Human Growth 02:36:17.021 --> 02:36:18.269 and Development. 02:36:18.269 --> 02:36:21.436 And that teacher does have to have one 02:36:23.897 --> 02:36:25.990 of those certifications, so either the Home Ec 02:36:25.990 --> 02:36:28.761 or Homemaking or Family Consumer Science. 02:36:28.761 --> 02:36:32.697 That teacher still does have to have that certification. 02:36:32.697 --> 02:36:35.883 But the beginning class where the TEKS are 02:36:35.883 --> 02:36:37.189 a little bit more general. 02:36:37.189 --> 02:36:39.580 I read over them, they're pretty general. 02:36:39.580 --> 02:36:41.940 They don't really go into a lot of the child development 02:36:41.940 --> 02:36:45.979 and et cetera like the class that is named that does, 02:36:45.979 --> 02:36:48.443 the Human Growth and Development class does. 02:36:48.443 --> 02:36:51.743 And then the other ones are more practicum-based. 02:36:51.743 --> 02:36:53.943 So their TEKS are a little bit more general too 02:36:53.943 --> 02:36:57.508 because they're letting kids practice 02:36:57.508 --> 02:36:59.074 becoming a teacher basically. 02:36:59.074 --> 02:37:03.074 So that's why I voted in favor of the SBEC rule. 02:37:04.036 --> 02:37:07.837 Okay, Miss Hardy did not speak yet. 02:37:07.837 --> 02:37:10.799 This is out of total ignorance that I'm speaking 02:37:10.799 --> 02:37:12.795 because I do not know. 02:37:12.795 --> 02:37:16.441 But I do know this, that to get a degree 02:37:16.441 --> 02:37:19.511 to be a Homemaking teacher, you have to take nutrition, 02:37:19.511 --> 02:37:23.084 you have to take a lot of chemistry, a lot of things 02:37:23.084 --> 02:37:25.917 like that that may not be relevant 02:37:27.049 --> 02:37:30.049 to that very good elementary teacher, 02:37:30.983 --> 02:37:34.196 who we would like to be in on this particular program 02:37:34.196 --> 02:37:37.210 training other people to be teachers. 02:37:37.210 --> 02:37:40.070 So I don't know what that test is like, 02:37:40.070 --> 02:37:42.728 but I don't know if you've heard teachers talk, 02:37:42.728 --> 02:37:46.368 but the tests are pretty rigorous that the state has, 02:37:46.368 --> 02:37:48.098 that SBEC has. 02:37:48.098 --> 02:37:51.882 And I would think that that test might have a lot 02:37:51.882 --> 02:37:56.049 of chemistry and nutrition and things of that detail 02:37:56.906 --> 02:38:00.738 that would be into Consumer Science class 02:38:00.738 --> 02:38:03.335 but not something necessarily that those teachers 02:38:03.335 --> 02:38:07.502 we're talking about on Grow Your Own needs to have. 02:38:10.579 --> 02:38:14.346 Okay, so Mr. Allen has not spoken. 02:38:14.346 --> 02:38:17.976 As one of the former warm-bodied coaches... 02:38:17.976 --> 02:38:19.027 (laughs) 02:38:19.027 --> 02:38:21.444 I was quoting someone else. 02:38:22.834 --> 02:38:26.834 That wasn't my turn, I was quoting someone else. 02:38:28.199 --> 02:38:30.515 Rise in support of the warm-bodied coaches 02:38:30.515 --> 02:38:31.723 in the state of Texas. 02:38:31.723 --> 02:38:33.519 (laughs) 02:38:33.519 --> 02:38:37.090 They are truly certified teachers, if that is the case, 02:38:37.090 --> 02:38:39.705 and should be more than qualified to teach this course 02:38:39.705 --> 02:38:42.537 if that's the criteria we're going to set. 02:38:42.537 --> 02:38:46.704 I got my initial certification in Industrial Education. 02:38:47.804 --> 02:38:51.971 And as they began to reduce the number of wood shops 02:38:53.213 --> 02:38:56.372 and metal shops and craft shops and whatnot 02:38:56.372 --> 02:38:59.547 across the state, it became incumbent on me 02:38:59.547 --> 02:39:01.933 to get another certification. 02:39:01.933 --> 02:39:04.114 Therefore I became a warm-bodied coach 02:39:04.114 --> 02:39:08.281 by going into the examination room and taking another exam. 02:39:09.305 --> 02:39:13.318 Also taking another exam in Special Education. 02:39:13.318 --> 02:39:17.213 This is a constant practice in the field of education. 02:39:17.213 --> 02:39:21.209 Where there is need, teachers go out to secure 02:39:21.209 --> 02:39:25.338 the appropriate certification in order to teach the class. 02:39:25.338 --> 02:39:27.283 By broadening that situation, 02:39:27.283 --> 02:39:32.265 it may help the rural, but it would become abusive 02:39:32.265 --> 02:39:34.059 in the larger districts. 02:39:34.059 --> 02:39:35.214 It will become abusive. 02:39:35.214 --> 02:39:38.774 Now it may be another place to put another warm-bodied coach 02:39:38.774 --> 02:39:41.248 on the campus because you've got this loophole 02:39:41.248 --> 02:39:42.474 at the high school level, 02:39:42.474 --> 02:39:44.193 and you've got so many people there. 02:39:44.193 --> 02:39:48.926 So we want to make sure that whatever people are doing, 02:39:48.926 --> 02:39:50.091 because I don't know what all, 02:39:50.091 --> 02:39:52.459 if it's in the Family and Consumer Science area, 02:39:52.459 --> 02:39:55.024 it's there for a particular reason. 02:39:55.024 --> 02:39:57.448 It is there for a particular reason, 02:39:57.448 --> 02:39:59.397 and the request was for the person 02:39:59.397 --> 02:40:00.922 to have the certification. 02:40:00.922 --> 02:40:02.854 Not just the teacher certification, 02:40:02.854 --> 02:40:05.140 but this particular certification. 02:40:05.140 --> 02:40:09.110 So I will stand against it because I think 02:40:09.110 --> 02:40:11.888 that every, for myself and others, 02:40:11.888 --> 02:40:15.428 that you should have to have the required certification 02:40:15.428 --> 02:40:17.845 in order to teach the course. 02:40:18.994 --> 02:40:23.101 That's the warm-bodied coach explanation. 02:40:23.101 --> 02:40:24.580 I just have another question 02:40:24.580 --> 02:40:27.452 about just the sequencing of, 02:40:27.452 --> 02:40:30.735 I guess in the absence of knowing, for me personally, 02:40:30.735 --> 02:40:33.141 what courses are required for the Grow Your Own 02:40:33.141 --> 02:40:35.445 and what is the student graduating 02:40:35.445 --> 02:40:37.067 or intended to be graduating with? 02:40:37.067 --> 02:40:38.681 Are they supposed to be graduating 02:40:38.681 --> 02:40:42.266 with like an Associate's level degree? 02:40:42.266 --> 02:40:45.225 Can you walk us through just kind of what that sequence 02:40:45.225 --> 02:40:47.197 looks like and what courses they're supposed 02:40:47.197 --> 02:40:49.156 to be taking along the way? 02:40:49.156 --> 02:40:51.439 I'll probably have to defer to some of my colleagues 02:40:51.439 --> 02:40:53.085 from curriculum generally, but I will talk 02:40:53.085 --> 02:40:55.634 about the agency's initiative around this 02:40:55.634 --> 02:40:59.599 which is to provide fully-developed curricular resources 02:40:59.599 --> 02:41:02.570 for teachers teaching this class, built by experts 02:41:02.570 --> 02:41:04.136 in this field that have been teaching it, 02:41:04.136 --> 02:41:06.468 and with input from higher education, 02:41:06.468 --> 02:41:09.633 as well as a grant program to provide Master's 02:41:09.633 --> 02:41:12.498 in Education for people participating in this, 02:41:12.498 --> 02:41:15.243 so that we can build out a dual-credit pathway there, 02:41:15.243 --> 02:41:18.156 so that you would have Master's degree individuals 02:41:18.156 --> 02:41:20.096 and you would have that connection 02:41:20.096 --> 02:41:22.288 where it would be tied in with potentially 02:41:22.288 --> 02:41:26.677 an Associate's degree or higher education courses. 02:41:26.677 --> 02:41:29.756 But I believe, I'll have to defer to somebody else 02:41:29.756 --> 02:41:32.382 on what the full pathway is, 02:41:32.382 --> 02:41:34.683 I think all the courses here are four 02:41:34.683 --> 02:41:36.511 of the five possibilities in the Human Growth 02:41:36.511 --> 02:41:39.803 and Development, which is not contemplated here 02:41:39.803 --> 02:41:43.107 is the fifth course that is tied in with that 02:41:43.107 --> 02:41:45.264 and that still requires the Family 02:41:45.264 --> 02:41:47.345 and Consumer Science certificate 02:41:47.345 --> 02:41:50.364 for Human Growth and Development. 02:41:50.364 --> 02:41:51.304 Question on that. 02:41:51.304 --> 02:41:54.637 So the agency has an initiative in place 02:41:55.903 --> 02:41:58.704 to provide supplemental support, training, 02:41:58.704 --> 02:42:00.447 professional development for the teachers 02:42:00.447 --> 02:42:03.202 teaching the subject matter? 02:42:03.202 --> 02:42:04.881 That is correct, yes. 02:42:04.881 --> 02:42:06.900 Okay, thank you. 02:42:06.900 --> 02:42:08.115 Well, can someone actually-- 02:42:08.115 --> 02:42:09.076 Point of information, 02:42:09.076 --> 02:42:12.707 this is gonna require a two-thirds vote to reject. 02:42:12.707 --> 02:42:16.571 And I know Miss Miller had trouble getting words in earlier. 02:42:16.571 --> 02:42:18.404 Can I call for a vote? 02:42:20.361 --> 02:42:21.304 (laughs) 02:42:21.304 --> 02:42:23.471 (mumbles) 02:42:28.585 --> 02:42:30.897 Madam Chairman, the vote to take no action is 02:42:30.897 --> 02:42:32.584 a majority vote. 02:42:32.584 --> 02:42:36.084 Should the vote fail, it would be an order 02:42:36.975 --> 02:42:40.214 to then make a motion to reject. 02:42:40.214 --> 02:42:44.174 Your statute gives you the opportunity to reject 02:42:44.174 --> 02:42:46.519 but only by two-thirds vote. 02:42:46.519 --> 02:42:48.390 And so the cleanest way to do that is 02:42:48.390 --> 02:42:50.837 to take your majority vote first, 02:42:50.837 --> 02:42:53.280 which is presented by your committee, 02:42:53.280 --> 02:42:56.834 and then to come back and take a vote on reject 02:42:56.834 --> 02:42:59.638 if someone actually makes that motion. 02:42:59.638 --> 02:43:03.305 If the motion to take no action were to fail 02:43:05.841 --> 02:43:09.985 and the motion to reject were also to fail, 02:43:09.985 --> 02:43:14.152 not yet two-thirds, then the regulation would go into effect 02:43:15.878 --> 02:43:18.318 in 90 days is my understanding 02:43:18.318 --> 02:43:20.970 but I'd also advise you to consult legal counsel on that. 02:43:20.970 --> 02:43:23.105 Well, that's a new procedure. 02:43:23.105 --> 02:43:25.474 Generally we just look for a motion to reject 02:43:25.474 --> 02:43:28.409 or the initiative move forward. 02:43:28.409 --> 02:43:31.887 So we have a motion on the floor from the committee 02:43:31.887 --> 02:43:33.522 to take no action. 02:43:33.522 --> 02:43:34.355 Okay. 02:43:39.423 --> 02:43:41.359 Given the situation, should we go ahead 02:43:41.359 --> 02:43:44.710 and continue to discuss or just do the vote? 02:43:44.710 --> 02:43:45.776 In response to that, 02:43:45.776 --> 02:43:48.196 by having a motion to take no action, 02:43:48.196 --> 02:43:51.273 we'll find out if the board wants to pursue it. 02:43:51.273 --> 02:43:52.494 If there's a majority of the board. 02:43:52.494 --> 02:43:56.370 I only had, I think Mr. Maynard, I had two people 02:43:56.370 --> 02:43:57.743 still left to talk. 02:43:57.743 --> 02:43:59.697 Mr. Rowley and Mr. Maynard, did you still want to talk 02:43:59.697 --> 02:44:00.530 or are you done? 02:44:00.530 --> 02:44:02.604 Okay, Mr. Rowley, this is it. 02:44:02.604 --> 02:44:07.400 Only point is, you'll recall in the Commissioner's comments 02:44:07.400 --> 02:44:09.717 at the outset of this meeting, 02:44:09.717 --> 02:44:11.649 he talked about Grow Your Own 02:44:11.649 --> 02:44:14.876 and specifically referenced items like this one 02:44:14.876 --> 02:44:18.575 that will allow rural school districts to bring teachers 02:44:18.575 --> 02:44:21.658 in to teach these particular courses. 02:44:22.701 --> 02:44:24.986 The other point, I just have two points, 02:44:24.986 --> 02:44:27.698 the other point is it's not just a certification 02:44:27.698 --> 02:44:29.799 to teach this particular course. 02:44:29.799 --> 02:44:33.010 That exam is going to be an FCS, 02:44:33.010 --> 02:44:35.730 Family and Consumer Science, certification. 02:44:35.730 --> 02:44:38.616 That's not to say that any teacher who wants to teach 02:44:38.616 --> 02:44:41.949 this Introduction to Teaching Principles 02:44:43.180 --> 02:44:47.129 can go pass the FCS exam because that's a whole body 02:44:47.129 --> 02:44:50.214 of study that many people are experts at, 02:44:50.214 --> 02:44:51.642 some of which are in our audience, 02:44:51.642 --> 02:44:53.731 but not a certified teacher. 02:44:53.731 --> 02:44:56.326 That's the problem with finding, 02:44:56.326 --> 02:44:59.144 just go take the certification exam. 02:44:59.144 --> 02:45:00.038 Okay. 02:45:00.038 --> 02:45:02.167 Can I wrap up? 02:45:02.167 --> 02:45:03.104 (laughs) Okay. 02:45:03.104 --> 02:45:04.335 If it's a wrap up. 02:45:04.335 --> 02:45:05.368 I hope we can do that. 02:45:05.368 --> 02:45:07.298 Yeah, since I started, I'd just like to wrap it up 02:45:07.298 --> 02:45:08.378 with that. 02:45:08.378 --> 02:45:11.910 My point is that if this does not move forward, 02:45:11.910 --> 02:45:15.791 my problem is with the process, not the actual thing, 02:45:15.791 --> 02:45:17.137 and if it does not move forward, 02:45:17.137 --> 02:45:21.410 I would like to see it brought back as it goes through... 02:45:21.410 --> 02:45:23.529 Uh oh, Mr. Maynard. 02:45:23.529 --> 02:45:26.042 You said you didn't want to talk. 02:45:26.042 --> 02:45:28.986 (laughs) Okay. 02:45:28.986 --> 02:45:30.868 Just a point of clarification 02:45:30.868 --> 02:45:35.035 that there are actually two different FCS certifications, 02:45:36.012 --> 02:45:40.226 and one of them is very broad and one of them is very narrow, 02:45:40.226 --> 02:45:42.682 that relates to Human Development, that sort of thing. 02:45:42.682 --> 02:45:45.008 And so the certification tied to this one is 02:45:45.008 --> 02:45:46.408 actually the very narrow one. 02:45:46.408 --> 02:45:48.827 And so you don't get into the food chemistry 02:45:48.827 --> 02:45:50.481 and all those kinds of things. 02:45:50.481 --> 02:45:52.481 Very narrow, I don't know what that means. 02:45:52.481 --> 02:45:53.889 Narrow in what sense? 02:45:53.889 --> 02:45:55.215 Child Development piece. 02:45:55.215 --> 02:45:56.336 Just Child Development? 02:45:56.336 --> 02:45:59.172 Well, this is the Human Development 02:45:59.172 --> 02:46:01.083 and Family Studies Certification is the one 02:46:01.083 --> 02:46:02.540 that's this narrow. 02:46:02.540 --> 02:46:04.120 You talk about Family Consumer Science, 02:46:04.120 --> 02:46:06.168 I mean there's all kinds of things like food chemistry, 02:46:06.168 --> 02:46:07.731 there's all kinds of things. 02:46:07.731 --> 02:46:10.642 But this certification is actually very narrow 02:46:10.642 --> 02:46:14.725 in its scope in terms of related to this content. 02:46:15.995 --> 02:46:18.586 So I think some of the concern that I was hearing is 02:46:18.586 --> 02:46:20.722 that in order to pass that certification, 02:46:20.722 --> 02:46:23.692 that you might have to become knowledgeable 02:46:23.692 --> 02:46:26.507 in a lot of content that would not necessarily be tied 02:46:26.507 --> 02:46:29.424 to this particular course offering. 02:46:30.843 --> 02:46:32.132 But that is not the case. 02:46:32.132 --> 02:46:34.202 And so the certification tied to this, 02:46:34.202 --> 02:46:36.033 that would be tied to this, is actually very narrow 02:46:36.033 --> 02:46:40.200 and very applicable to this particular area of teaching. 02:46:42.304 --> 02:46:46.155 I would like some clarification of that. 02:46:46.155 --> 02:46:49.879 If you'll look on your rules on page 4-56, 02:46:49.879 --> 02:46:53.228 the stricken through language there, one, two, three, 02:46:53.228 --> 02:46:54.845 in both sections. 02:46:54.845 --> 02:46:58.146 One says any Home Economics or Homemaking certificate. 02:46:58.146 --> 02:47:00.780 Those are outdated certificates that are no longer issued. 02:47:00.780 --> 02:47:02.099 They're not outdated, they're still valid, 02:47:02.099 --> 02:47:04.289 they're just no longer issued. 02:47:04.289 --> 02:47:06.091 The two currently issued certificates are 02:47:06.091 --> 02:47:08.251 the Family and Consumer Sciences Composite, 02:47:08.251 --> 02:47:09.702 Grades 6 through 12, 02:47:09.702 --> 02:47:11.640 and the Human Development and Family Studies, 02:47:11.640 --> 02:47:13.534 Grades 8 through 12. 02:47:13.534 --> 02:47:16.993 So the breadth of content for those two certification areas 02:47:16.993 --> 02:47:19.413 are different but both would enable an individual 02:47:19.413 --> 02:47:22.418 to teach this course under current rule. 02:47:22.418 --> 02:47:26.585 So it's Human Development and Family Studies? 02:47:27.971 --> 02:47:30.120 What is Family Studies? 02:47:30.120 --> 02:47:32.287 A very broad area. 02:47:33.786 --> 02:47:36.361 I didn't bring the standards. 02:47:36.361 --> 02:47:37.727 I mean, that's kind of relevant here. 02:47:37.727 --> 02:47:38.761 How narrow is this? 02:47:38.761 --> 02:47:41.030 This is my question. 02:47:41.030 --> 02:47:43.431 Just don't worry about it. 02:47:43.431 --> 02:47:44.731 Don't worry about it? 02:47:44.731 --> 02:47:46.035 We have the test framework. 02:47:46.035 --> 02:47:46.868 You can read the standards-- 02:47:46.868 --> 02:47:48.563 Oh, okay, she's got it. 02:47:48.563 --> 02:47:51.730 We've got staff to help us real quick. 02:47:55.530 --> 02:47:59.697 I just want to kind of understand that part, that one part. 02:48:06.649 --> 02:48:10.149 No, no, I'm just wanting staff to clarify. 02:48:12.213 --> 02:48:14.208 So Madam Chair, members, we have a copy 02:48:14.208 --> 02:48:17.887 of the registration bulletin that kind of goes over 02:48:17.887 --> 02:48:21.090 the standards covered for, there are three exams 02:48:21.090 --> 02:48:24.014 under Family and Consumer Sciences. 02:48:24.014 --> 02:48:27.597 So the question about the Human Development 02:48:29.442 --> 02:48:31.630 and Family Studies specialist exam? 02:48:31.630 --> 02:48:32.613 Correct, and that's the one 02:48:32.613 --> 02:48:33.729 we're talking about here. 02:48:33.729 --> 02:48:35.758 Has three major standards. 02:48:35.758 --> 02:48:39.189 And so those three standards covered on that exam are 02:48:39.189 --> 02:48:42.335 Integration of Foundations, which is 17% 02:48:42.335 --> 02:48:46.249 of the examination, Family Studies and Human Services, 02:48:46.249 --> 02:48:49.510 which is 42% of the examination, 02:48:49.510 --> 02:48:52.203 and then Human Development, Education, and Services, 02:48:52.203 --> 02:48:55.370 which is 41% of that examination. 02:48:57.062 --> 02:48:59.517 I don't know what the services mean. 02:48:59.517 --> 02:49:01.363 What does that mean, services? 02:49:01.363 --> 02:49:04.956 And so there's an explanation in here 02:49:04.956 --> 02:49:08.884 about Family Studies and Human Services 02:49:08.884 --> 02:49:11.556 as an example for that standard, and it basically says 02:49:11.556 --> 02:49:14.091 Family and Consumer Sciences professional 02:49:14.091 --> 02:49:16.864 understands the areas of personal development, 02:49:16.864 --> 02:49:20.050 relationships, and management of work and family 02:49:20.050 --> 02:49:23.417 to enhance quality of life across the lifespan 02:49:23.417 --> 02:49:26.479 and understands career opportunities in Family Studies 02:49:26.479 --> 02:49:28.104 and Human Services. 02:49:28.104 --> 02:49:29.931 So that's an example, an explanation 02:49:29.931 --> 02:49:33.476 of that broader standard covered on the test there. 02:49:33.476 --> 02:49:37.426 If you look at, I can find the next standard. 02:49:37.426 --> 02:49:39.977 Standard three for Human Development, Education, 02:49:39.977 --> 02:49:43.170 and Services, the broader, overall umbrella standard says 02:49:43.170 --> 02:49:46.096 the Family and Consumer Sciences professional 02:49:46.096 --> 02:49:48.622 understands Human Growth and Development, 02:49:48.622 --> 02:49:52.664 parent, guardian, educator roles and responsibilities 02:49:52.664 --> 02:49:55.107 and career opportunities in Human Development, 02:49:55.107 --> 02:49:57.644 Education, and Services. 02:49:57.644 --> 02:50:02.392 That's not particularly narrow, I wouldn't say. 02:50:02.392 --> 02:50:03.654 But okay. 02:50:03.654 --> 02:50:05.339 I just didn't understand that. 02:50:05.339 --> 02:50:06.421 I appreciate you clarifying that 02:50:06.421 --> 02:50:08.042 because I just did not understand exactly 02:50:08.042 --> 02:50:10.063 what's the breadth of knowledge that needed to be known 02:50:10.063 --> 02:50:11.303 by that particular exam. 02:50:11.303 --> 02:50:12.136 Okay. 02:50:12.136 --> 02:50:14.386 Alright, are we ready for-- 02:50:16.737 --> 02:50:19.644 Okay, so the recommendation was to take no action 02:50:19.644 --> 02:50:22.902 on the proposed revision to 19 TAC, Chapter 231, 02:50:22.902 --> 02:50:25.393 Requirements for Public School Personnel Assignments, 02:50:25.393 --> 02:50:28.523 Subchapter C, Grades Six through Eight Assignments, 02:50:28.523 --> 02:50:32.396 and Subchapter E, Grades Nine through 12 Assignments. 02:50:32.396 --> 02:50:35.148 All those in favor, raise your hand, 02:50:35.148 --> 02:50:37.304 because I think we're gonna need to in this case, 02:50:37.304 --> 02:50:38.697 of taking no action. 02:50:38.697 --> 02:50:42.440 All those in favor of taking no action. 02:50:42.440 --> 02:50:43.857 How many is this? 02:50:52.157 --> 02:50:56.324 All those in favor of, oppose, sorry, of taking no action? 02:51:03.295 --> 02:51:04.402 Eight to seven. 02:51:04.402 --> 02:51:06.652 Alright, so now is there... 02:51:08.646 --> 02:51:09.479 That's it. 02:51:10.607 --> 02:51:12.007 So there's action. 02:51:12.007 --> 02:51:14.114 So is there a motion to reject? 02:51:14.114 --> 02:51:15.482 Madam Chair. 02:51:15.482 --> 02:51:17.649 (mumbles) 02:51:21.407 --> 02:51:22.407 Madam Chair. 02:51:23.736 --> 02:51:28.554 Okay, I do want to ask a question of our lawyer. 02:51:28.554 --> 02:51:31.492 So we've not had this before, a motion to reject, 02:51:31.492 --> 02:51:33.393 that I recall. 02:51:33.393 --> 02:51:34.847 We've just had the motion fail, 02:51:34.847 --> 02:51:36.451 and it goes back to the drawing board. 02:51:36.451 --> 02:51:39.995 What does the motion reject do exactly? 02:51:39.995 --> 02:51:41.178 Should that pass? 02:51:41.178 --> 02:51:45.325 Your reading should have been seven to eight 02:51:45.325 --> 02:51:46.825 to take no action. 02:51:52.076 --> 02:51:56.140 I had six to eight if you were to vote (mumbles). 02:51:56.140 --> 02:51:58.074 But how do you know how I was gonna vote? 02:51:58.074 --> 02:52:01.952 (laughs) Okay, sorry. 02:52:01.952 --> 02:52:03.035 Okay, gotcha. 02:52:03.976 --> 02:52:06.434 But the stance was six to eight 02:52:06.434 --> 02:52:10.601 and it was the motion to take no action was defeated. 02:52:12.990 --> 02:52:15.939 So we are taking no action. 02:52:15.939 --> 02:52:17.206 (laughs) 02:52:17.206 --> 02:52:19.744 That's why I don't like this motion. 02:52:19.744 --> 02:52:21.313 If I could explain. 02:52:21.313 --> 02:52:24.614 We should have voted on a motion to reject, it takes two-thirds. 02:52:24.614 --> 02:52:26.259 Well, it's not a motion to reject yet. 02:52:26.259 --> 02:52:29.599 But that would need a motion from the committee. 02:52:29.599 --> 02:52:31.108 Madam Chair, if you wouldn't mind, 02:52:31.108 --> 02:52:35.571 I'd be happy to try to explain what's going on 02:52:35.571 --> 02:52:37.273 and why you have the process that you have. 02:52:37.273 --> 02:52:38.773 Okay, thank you. 02:52:39.685 --> 02:52:43.102 Under statute, when SBEC passes a rule, 02:52:45.746 --> 02:52:48.079 it has to come to the board. 02:52:49.008 --> 02:52:50.841 The board, to you all. 02:52:51.825 --> 02:52:55.492 You all have 90 days to say no to that rule. 02:52:59.034 --> 02:53:02.168 But to say no, you have to say no, 02:53:02.168 --> 02:53:04.654 two-thirds of you have to say no. 02:53:04.654 --> 02:53:07.654 So what you normally do is that you, 02:53:09.545 --> 02:53:11.907 so that we don't have to allow SBEC 02:53:11.907 --> 02:53:14.138 to wait those full 90 days, 02:53:14.138 --> 02:53:16.659 your meetings don't line up with that, 02:53:16.659 --> 02:53:20.684 you come in and historically you have taken an affirmative 02:53:20.684 --> 02:53:23.284 to say, hey, we're not gonna say no. 02:53:23.284 --> 02:53:25.255 And that's why you have this motion. 02:53:25.255 --> 02:53:26.408 Oh, there's a two part, okay. 02:53:26.408 --> 02:53:29.287 That's why you have this motion to not reject. 02:53:29.287 --> 02:53:32.986 It tells the world, hey, we're not gonna take action 02:53:32.986 --> 02:53:35.306 even though we still have time left on the clock 02:53:35.306 --> 02:53:36.839 to take action. 02:53:36.839 --> 02:53:38.700 So now you have an instance here 02:53:38.700 --> 02:53:41.280 where you're actually gonna take action. 02:53:41.280 --> 02:53:43.807 Or you're thinking about taking action. 02:53:43.807 --> 02:53:47.047 So the motion to tell the world 02:53:47.047 --> 02:53:49.186 we're not gonna take action failed. 02:53:49.186 --> 02:53:53.590 Now you have to entertain a motion to take action. 02:53:53.590 --> 02:53:57.481 If you fail to take action, this rule will become effective, 02:53:57.481 --> 02:54:00.494 it will just have to wait for the 90 days to expire. 02:54:00.494 --> 02:54:02.850 So that motion to reject takes two-thirds? 02:54:02.850 --> 02:54:03.997 That's correct. 02:54:03.997 --> 02:54:05.997 So, now, does everybody understand that? 02:54:05.997 --> 02:54:08.538 We have to have a two-thirds vote for this, okay. 02:54:08.538 --> 02:54:11.004 I don't think, do we need to continue to discuss this, 02:54:11.004 --> 02:54:12.407 Mr. Maynard? 02:54:12.407 --> 02:54:14.544 Do you have a parliamentary inquiry or something? 02:54:14.544 --> 02:54:15.997 I move to reject. 02:54:15.997 --> 02:54:18.438 Okay, so you want to make the rejection, okay. 02:54:18.438 --> 02:54:21.521 So the move to reject needs a second. 02:54:22.717 --> 02:54:24.971 Okay, so the motion to reject is I move 02:54:24.971 --> 02:54:27.166 that the State Board of Education reject 02:54:27.166 --> 02:54:30.726 the proposed revisions to 19 TAC, Chapter 231, 02:54:30.726 --> 02:54:33.680 Requirements for Public School Personnel Assignments, 02:54:33.680 --> 02:54:36.399 Subchapter C, Grades Six through Eight Assignments, 02:54:36.399 --> 02:54:39.708 and Subchapter E, Grades Nine through 12 Assignments. 02:54:39.708 --> 02:54:42.773 Because this would require a two-thirds vote, 02:54:42.773 --> 02:54:46.940 please hold your hands up if you want to move to reject. 02:54:47.818 --> 02:54:50.485 All those in favor of rejecting. 02:54:56.601 --> 02:54:58.065 Eight votes to reject. 02:54:58.065 --> 02:55:00.859 Okay, all those in favor of not rejecting, 02:55:00.859 --> 02:55:02.776 please raise your hand. 02:55:03.798 --> 02:55:05.465 Yeah, not rejecting. 02:55:09.547 --> 02:55:10.380 Six. 02:55:10.380 --> 02:55:13.980 Okay, so the motion to reject was defeated. 02:55:13.980 --> 02:55:15.900 It did not achieve two-thirds. 02:55:15.900 --> 02:55:18.626 It did not achieve two-thirds because it's not just a majority, 02:55:18.626 --> 02:55:20.365 you have to have a two-thirds to reject. 02:55:20.365 --> 02:55:21.974 Okay. 02:55:21.974 --> 02:55:22.807 So now... 02:55:25.586 --> 02:55:27.795 Rule will go into effect. 02:55:27.795 --> 02:55:31.640 But I should add, because you still have the authority, 02:55:31.640 --> 02:55:36.495 you can request a meeting to meet before the expiration 02:55:36.495 --> 02:55:40.773 of that 90 days and try to pass by two-thirds a rejection. 02:55:40.773 --> 02:55:43.738 Whether you want to do that or not is up to you but. 02:55:43.738 --> 02:55:47.063 Madam Chair, I move, what he said. 02:55:47.063 --> 02:55:50.563 So to schedule another state board meet? 02:55:53.386 --> 02:55:56.803 Note the 90 days expires December 15th. 02:55:57.716 --> 02:55:59.446 December 15th, you'd have to have another meeting 02:55:59.446 --> 02:56:00.932 like right away. 02:56:00.932 --> 02:56:02.086 Well, and you have to post. 02:56:02.086 --> 02:56:03.669 I don't remember... 02:56:07.926 --> 02:56:11.897 Von, are you suggesting now that for the last 20 years 02:56:11.897 --> 02:56:14.480 we have improperly-handled SBEC 02:56:15.817 --> 02:56:19.234 by simply only having a motion to reject? 02:56:20.453 --> 02:56:23.383 Traditionally, we've only brought forth motions to reject, 02:56:23.383 --> 02:56:25.050 not the to consider. 02:56:26.218 --> 02:56:29.439 Well, traditionally you haven't actually taken action 02:56:29.439 --> 02:56:31.159 against the SBEC rules. 02:56:31.159 --> 02:56:33.782 This has been a rather recent phenomenon-- 02:56:33.782 --> 02:56:35.121 Okay, well-- 02:56:35.121 --> 02:56:38.384 But no, your past ones have not been. 02:56:38.384 --> 02:56:42.976 What we've tried to do is, with the motion to not reject, 02:56:42.976 --> 02:56:44.993 it's an affirmative statement by you all 02:56:44.993 --> 02:56:47.487 that you aren't going to take action, 02:56:47.487 --> 02:56:50.916 which allows us to move forward with the SBEC rules. 02:56:50.916 --> 02:56:53.524 Otherwise, you still have a capacity to take action 02:56:53.524 --> 02:56:54.809 until the 90 days is up. 02:56:54.809 --> 02:56:58.642 Well, and Miss Perez, little history lesson. 02:56:59.713 --> 02:57:02.179 SBEC has to present it to the board 02:57:02.179 --> 02:57:05.585 and from the date they deliver it to our board office, 02:57:05.585 --> 02:57:09.470 down the hall here, then the 90-day clock starts. 02:57:09.470 --> 02:57:13.498 Initially, they would time the delivery 02:57:13.498 --> 02:57:15.735 so that within that 90-day period, 02:57:15.735 --> 02:57:19.777 we'd only have one opportunity to address the issue. 02:57:19.777 --> 02:57:23.359 We protested and we rejected some rules in protest, 02:57:23.359 --> 02:57:25.627 and then all of a sudden, they started making accommodations 02:57:25.627 --> 02:57:30.363 to deliver the new rule the day after we meet today 02:57:30.363 --> 02:57:32.826 so that you would have two subsequent meetings 02:57:32.826 --> 02:57:35.181 within that 90-day period. 02:57:35.181 --> 02:57:37.654 Obviously, this time they did not take that 02:57:37.654 --> 02:57:40.019 into consideration in delivering the rule 02:57:40.019 --> 02:57:42.579 to the board office, thus we only have one meeting. 02:57:42.579 --> 02:57:45.314 Traditionally we've always had two. 02:57:45.314 --> 02:57:47.135 Just for your information. 02:57:47.135 --> 02:57:48.681 Madam Chair? 02:57:48.681 --> 02:57:49.872 Staff has some information. 02:57:49.872 --> 02:57:51.699 You weren't here. 02:57:51.699 --> 02:57:54.047 That was a long time ago maybe, okay. 02:57:54.047 --> 02:57:56.466 We've gone back to the old system. 02:57:56.466 --> 02:58:00.822 This process and timeline has been consistent 02:58:00.822 --> 02:58:02.640 throughout the last 3 1/2 years. 02:58:02.640 --> 02:58:04.887 I can't speak to the old timeline before, 02:58:04.887 --> 02:58:06.731 but the multiple communication letters 02:58:06.731 --> 02:58:09.114 are the multiple opportunities for this board 02:58:09.114 --> 02:58:11.914 to be informed and that is consistent. 02:58:11.914 --> 02:58:15.374 And then one meeting to formally vote up or down 02:58:15.374 --> 02:58:16.799 on SBEC rule items. 02:58:16.799 --> 02:58:20.881 So Christina can add further historical context on this, 02:58:20.881 --> 02:58:23.702 but I mean, this board has rejected SBEC items 02:58:23.702 --> 02:58:25.692 three of the last four Novembers. 02:58:25.692 --> 02:58:29.222 It was one vote, vote to reject, rejected, 02:58:29.222 --> 02:58:30.072 went back to SBEC. 02:58:30.072 --> 02:58:33.350 Or didn't vote to reject and the rule moved forward, 02:58:33.350 --> 02:58:37.265 and it was a fairly simple and straightforward process. 02:58:37.265 --> 02:58:38.971 When it has happened in the past. 02:58:38.971 --> 02:58:40.498 I respond with a question. 02:58:40.498 --> 02:58:41.608 Yes, Mr. Bradley. 02:58:41.608 --> 02:58:45.322 So why is there any difficulty going forward 02:58:45.322 --> 02:58:47.729 to handle it the way that SBEC and this board worked 02:58:47.729 --> 02:58:51.486 before 3 1/2 years prior? 02:58:51.486 --> 02:58:52.561 Why the change? 02:58:52.561 --> 02:58:56.516 Why cannot SBEC deliver a rule so that this board 02:58:56.516 --> 02:59:00.514 has the opportunity to utilize the full 90 days 02:59:00.514 --> 02:59:01.681 offered to it? 02:59:03.902 --> 02:59:06.993 Christina De La Fuente Valdez, TEA Rule Making Unit. 02:59:06.993 --> 02:59:08.443 Since 2005, 02:59:08.443 --> 02:59:11.441 when the State Board of Educator Certification staff 02:59:11.441 --> 02:59:14.877 became part of the agency, and we assumed the responsibility 02:59:14.877 --> 02:59:16.774 of doing rule making 02:59:16.774 --> 02:59:19.005 for the State Board of Educator Certification 02:59:19.005 --> 02:59:21.919 as well as we do for this board and the Commissioner, 02:59:21.919 --> 02:59:23.715 this has been the process that was agreed upon 02:59:23.715 --> 02:59:27.507 between those two boards at the time. 02:59:27.507 --> 02:59:30.728 We have to be very mindful in managing this rule proposal 02:59:30.728 --> 02:59:33.065 because it has a shelf life of six months. 02:59:33.065 --> 02:59:35.051 It expires in 180 days. 02:59:35.051 --> 02:59:38.671 So we have to coordinate the meetings, consider the meetings 02:59:38.671 --> 02:59:40.533 of the SBEC board. 02:59:40.533 --> 02:59:42.290 And they meet five times a year. 02:59:42.290 --> 02:59:45.670 And the meeting schedule also of this board. 02:59:45.670 --> 02:59:47.920 So as part of that process, 02:59:48.916 --> 02:59:52.677 we provided first and second communication letters 02:59:52.677 --> 02:59:55.329 to this board, and then one meeting 02:59:55.329 --> 02:59:58.912 where the SBOE would consider the proposal, 03:00:00.272 --> 03:00:01.722 the SBEC proposal. 03:00:01.722 --> 03:00:04.013 But you do have the ability to schedule it 03:00:04.013 --> 03:00:07.431 for two SBOE meetings, do you not? 03:00:07.431 --> 03:00:11.242 I would say that it depends on when the SBEC is meeting 03:00:11.242 --> 03:00:13.816 because they have a meeting in December, 03:00:13.816 --> 03:00:17.328 but then, they don't meet until March. 03:00:17.328 --> 03:00:20.853 Well, then I would just ask 03:00:20.853 --> 03:00:23.887 maybe that be considered going forward. 03:00:23.887 --> 03:00:25.925 I think that's a legitimate consideration. 03:00:25.925 --> 03:00:29.132 Just is it feasible to do that, to have two meetings? 03:00:29.132 --> 03:00:30.418 Madam Chair? 03:00:30.418 --> 03:00:31.251 Yes. 03:00:31.251 --> 03:00:32.817 Perhaps this board needs to reconsider 03:00:32.817 --> 03:00:34.400 when it meets also? 03:00:36.879 --> 03:00:38.575 If that's something that's important, 03:00:38.575 --> 03:00:42.060 then you may need to adjust your own meeting schedule 03:00:42.060 --> 03:00:44.227 to better align with this. 03:00:45.245 --> 03:00:47.448 Well, in talking to the SBEC chair, 03:00:47.448 --> 03:00:51.907 she sets her meetings based on our schedule first, 03:00:51.907 --> 03:00:53.966 so we're the first one that does the calendar 03:00:53.966 --> 03:00:55.587 and then they set their meetings, correct? 03:00:55.587 --> 03:00:56.420 That's right. 03:00:56.420 --> 03:00:57.951 We set it to reflect this process 03:00:57.951 --> 03:00:59.168 that has been in place since 2005. 03:00:59.168 --> 03:01:01.085 Right, so we set our meetings first, 03:01:01.085 --> 03:01:03.761 and then they set theirs based on that. 03:01:03.761 --> 03:01:04.902 To meet this timeline 03:01:04.902 --> 03:01:07.190 and to meet the first and second communication 03:01:07.190 --> 03:01:09.014 and the one opportunity for a vote. 03:01:09.014 --> 03:01:11.255 But many opportunities for input. 03:01:11.255 --> 03:01:14.521 Yeah, I think it's just worth exploring 03:01:14.521 --> 03:01:15.991 if that's even a feasible thing. 03:01:15.991 --> 03:01:17.421 I don't think it's an unreasonable request 03:01:17.421 --> 03:01:19.031 but I do think it's something we'd like 03:01:19.031 --> 03:01:21.098 to at least have done, get back to us on. 03:01:21.098 --> 03:01:23.593 So I don't think, you know. 03:01:23.593 --> 03:01:25.097 A response from them would be great 03:01:25.097 --> 03:01:27.930 about that particular feasibility. 03:01:29.558 --> 03:01:31.391 Okay, we're back to... 03:01:34.127 --> 03:01:37.279 You put forward a question that you wanted 03:01:37.279 --> 03:01:38.518 to schedule a new meeting. 03:01:38.518 --> 03:01:39.772 Right, for a new meeting. 03:01:39.772 --> 03:01:43.721 Because, and I think probably someone else 03:01:43.721 --> 03:01:45.471 is gonna answer this. 03:01:46.892 --> 03:01:50.809 So this rule goes into effect in how many days? 03:01:52.816 --> 03:01:54.520 Because the motion to reject failed. 03:01:54.520 --> 03:01:57.795 So what is the date that this rule goes into effect? 03:01:57.795 --> 03:01:59.883 December 15th is the expiration 03:01:59.883 --> 03:02:02.611 of the 90-day time period. 03:02:02.611 --> 03:02:05.436 So December 15th this rule goes into effect? 03:02:05.436 --> 03:02:08.881 You have to take action by December 15th 03:02:08.881 --> 03:02:12.547 or it will continue moving down the process 03:02:12.547 --> 03:02:15.825 of becoming final, which means it can get filed 03:02:15.825 --> 03:02:18.492 and it will be final in 20 days. 03:02:22.127 --> 03:02:24.787 I think the bottom line is you have until December 15th 03:02:24.787 --> 03:02:26.037 to take action. 03:02:28.251 --> 03:02:30.030 Okay, so are you making a motion to-- 03:02:30.030 --> 03:02:31.991 Okay, so how would this board take action 03:02:31.991 --> 03:02:34.165 by December 15th? 03:02:34.165 --> 03:02:36.393 You would have to meet and you would have to have a vote 03:02:36.393 --> 03:02:38.726 of two-thirds to reject. 03:02:43.001 --> 03:02:44.877 I don't understand the question. 03:02:44.877 --> 03:02:48.204 The body can only take action if the body meets 03:02:48.204 --> 03:02:50.836 and convenes and takes a vote 03:02:50.836 --> 03:02:54.980 and two-thirds of the members present vote to reject. 03:02:54.980 --> 03:02:57.388 So whatever you do all the time, 03:02:57.388 --> 03:02:59.577 you will all have to pick a place to meet, 03:02:59.577 --> 03:03:01.346 you will all have to come there, 03:03:01.346 --> 03:03:02.965 you all have to open the meeting, 03:03:02.965 --> 03:03:04.542 and you will have to take a vote. 03:03:04.542 --> 03:03:08.042 And what makes her think it's gonna change the vote? 03:03:08.042 --> 03:03:12.035 Well, my bigger issue is that, in light 03:03:12.035 --> 03:03:15.235 of SBEC not giving us the two meetings 03:03:15.235 --> 03:03:17.237 and then not taking that into consideration 03:03:17.237 --> 03:03:19.925 as they have I believe in the three years. 03:03:19.925 --> 03:03:21.957 We have not had the two meetings, 03:03:21.957 --> 03:03:24.207 then we should call for a-- 03:03:25.412 --> 03:03:27.748 So if I could address that a little bit. 03:03:27.748 --> 03:03:31.344 SBEC is under absolutely no legal obligation 03:03:31.344 --> 03:03:36.012 to provide you two meetings based upon your schedule. 03:03:36.012 --> 03:03:38.722 You all may have, and I can't speak to that, 03:03:38.722 --> 03:03:40.336 and I would defer to Member Bradley, 03:03:40.336 --> 03:03:43.234 that you all maybe previously 03:03:43.234 --> 03:03:47.543 had used your pulpit or actually your authority 03:03:47.543 --> 03:03:51.710 to reject them and made them conform to your will. 03:03:54.111 --> 03:03:58.105 And you could certainly do that if that's what you want. 03:03:58.105 --> 03:04:01.028 You have that hammer under statute. 03:04:01.028 --> 03:04:05.554 But we've been under the impression at the staff level 03:04:05.554 --> 03:04:09.691 that the process that we've been using since 2005 03:04:09.691 --> 03:04:11.858 was acceptable to you all. 03:04:12.811 --> 03:04:15.728 And so I think to start saying that 03:04:16.739 --> 03:04:20.906 SBEC has been trying to skirt that is a misrepresentation 03:04:22.040 --> 03:04:24.164 of that body's action. 03:04:24.164 --> 03:04:25.611 Parliamentary inquiry. 03:04:25.611 --> 03:04:27.261 I agree with that. 03:04:27.261 --> 03:04:29.229 I actually like the way that they do it 03:04:29.229 --> 03:04:32.061 because we get it immediately, we get it again, 03:04:32.061 --> 03:04:33.678 and I think we get it one more time. 03:04:33.678 --> 03:04:36.975 Don't we get it three times before our actual meeting? 03:04:36.975 --> 03:04:39.005 Parliamentary inquiry. 03:04:39.005 --> 03:04:40.094 Let me just ask that question. 03:04:40.094 --> 03:04:40.927 I want to make sure. 03:04:40.927 --> 03:04:43.397 Don't we get a mailing? Isn't it three times 03:04:43.397 --> 03:04:45.564 before the actual meeting? 03:04:46.977 --> 03:04:48.202 At least twice. 03:04:48.202 --> 03:04:50.512 (mumbles) 03:04:50.512 --> 03:04:52.179 No, we're not yet. 03:04:54.298 --> 03:04:56.598 Parliamentary inquiry. 03:04:56.598 --> 03:04:58.829 The process with the multiple mailings. 03:04:58.829 --> 03:05:00.056 And so at your last board meeting, 03:05:00.056 --> 03:05:01.973 you got a copy of this. 03:05:03.160 --> 03:05:07.940 You get two shots at this before it comes to the meeting 03:05:07.940 --> 03:05:09.875 for the final vote. 03:05:09.875 --> 03:05:12.565 And that has been the process for over 10 years, 03:05:12.565 --> 03:05:15.620 so nothing has changed in 10 years of process 03:05:15.620 --> 03:05:18.790 with that timeline, the multiple steps in the process 03:05:18.790 --> 03:05:20.384 has been documented, has been consistent 03:05:20.384 --> 03:05:23.019 for at least 10 years. 03:05:23.019 --> 03:05:25.519 Parliamentary inquiry. 03:05:29.036 --> 03:05:30.286 Usually I get-- 03:05:43.528 --> 03:05:45.994 We had a motion by Member Perez 03:05:45.994 --> 03:05:48.476 to schedule another meeting to... 03:05:48.476 --> 03:05:49.615 Okay, so there's been a second. 03:05:49.615 --> 03:05:51.877 Okay, all those in favor of setting another meeting 03:05:51.877 --> 03:05:54.417 before December 15th, and I'll have to figure out 03:05:54.417 --> 03:05:57.089 what date that's gonna be. 03:05:57.089 --> 03:05:58.947 December 15th, another meeting 03:05:58.947 --> 03:06:01.550 of the State Board of Education before December 15th. 03:06:01.550 --> 03:06:04.801 Madam Chair, we had a motion on the floor to reject. 03:06:04.801 --> 03:06:06.334 It was seconded. 03:06:06.334 --> 03:06:08.336 Is this a substitute motion 03:06:08.336 --> 03:06:11.419 and is it germane to the main motion? 03:06:12.264 --> 03:06:14.060 Motion to reject? 03:06:14.060 --> 03:06:16.083 You already voted on the motion to reject. 03:06:16.083 --> 03:06:18.250 (mumbles) 03:06:19.866 --> 03:06:20.699 Oh, so she wants-- 03:06:20.699 --> 03:06:22.050 Oh, I understand where she's going with this. 03:06:22.050 --> 03:06:23.835 She's trying to get in by the deadline. 03:06:23.835 --> 03:06:24.689 Okay, okay. 03:06:24.689 --> 03:06:26.398 To make us get back together 03:06:26.398 --> 03:06:29.856 so that we have another vote even though it failed this time 03:06:29.856 --> 03:06:32.405 to have another vote by that time. 03:06:32.405 --> 03:06:33.744 That's what she's hoping to do. 03:06:33.744 --> 03:06:35.485 Yes, Miss Beltran. 03:06:35.485 --> 03:06:38.632 Question for my colleague Mrs. Perez. 03:06:38.632 --> 03:06:40.062 Miss Perez, sorry. 03:06:40.062 --> 03:06:44.208 Can you tell me what you hope to accomplish 03:06:44.208 --> 03:06:45.041 during that time? 03:06:45.041 --> 03:06:48.966 Would it give us the opportunity to... 03:06:48.966 --> 03:06:53.070 What, do we have an open conversation? What do you see? 03:06:53.070 --> 03:06:56.257 So because there's the lack of majority, 03:06:56.257 --> 03:07:00.097 or lack of two-thirds, clearly we need more time 03:07:00.097 --> 03:07:04.157 to understand this better because perhaps we all don't. 03:07:04.157 --> 03:07:06.718 All of us don't sit in that committee, right? 03:07:06.718 --> 03:07:10.264 But talking to my school districts 03:07:10.264 --> 03:07:12.055 and speaking to my teachers 03:07:12.055 --> 03:07:15.251 and particularly when I take into consideration 03:07:15.251 --> 03:07:19.251 prioritizing student needs above adult concerns, 03:07:20.846 --> 03:07:23.164 I can't imagine why anybody would not want 03:07:23.164 --> 03:07:25.182 the best certified teachers for their students. 03:07:25.182 --> 03:07:27.020 And even in a rural district, 03:07:27.020 --> 03:07:31.312 it is not anywhere near difficult to get this certification 03:07:31.312 --> 03:07:33.623 for already certified teachers. 03:07:33.623 --> 03:07:37.790 Like our colleague Dr. Allen said, it is common practice 03:07:39.408 --> 03:07:41.221 that we as educators go back in 03:07:41.221 --> 03:07:43.338 and get more certifications and recertified. 03:07:43.338 --> 03:07:45.338 This is common practice. 03:07:46.247 --> 03:07:48.515 Mr. Rowley. 03:07:48.515 --> 03:07:51.232 I object to reopening the discussion of the motion 03:07:51.232 --> 03:07:52.969 that we've already voted on twice. 03:07:52.969 --> 03:07:54.489 Right now the motion before the board is 03:07:54.489 --> 03:07:57.146 whether or not we schedule a whole new meeting 03:07:57.146 --> 03:07:58.705 between now and December 15th 03:07:58.705 --> 03:08:02.368 and have another one in January, whatever that is, 03:08:02.368 --> 03:08:05.445 to take up one agenda item that we already voted on twice. 03:08:05.445 --> 03:08:07.292 Isn't that the motion that's before us right now? 03:08:07.292 --> 03:08:08.150 That's right. 03:08:08.150 --> 03:08:10.416 The motion is to set another meeting. 03:08:10.416 --> 03:08:12.470 So let's stick strictly not to arguing 03:08:12.470 --> 03:08:14.792 whether people should have voted or not voted. 03:08:14.792 --> 03:08:17.121 About why you think it's so important 03:08:17.121 --> 03:08:19.177 to set another meeting, because that's really the motion 03:08:19.177 --> 03:08:20.104 in front of us. 03:08:20.104 --> 03:08:23.044 Point of action, point of order. 03:08:23.044 --> 03:08:26.332 So obviously the vote is pretty split, right? 03:08:26.332 --> 03:08:29.999 So what might help me if I were to say yeah, 03:08:32.289 --> 03:08:34.210 I want to come back and have this conversation, 03:08:34.210 --> 03:08:37.385 is if you were to send out some type of a survey 03:08:37.385 --> 03:08:41.635 to school districts that I can gather information 03:08:41.635 --> 03:08:44.836 from my district and say is this important to you? 03:08:44.836 --> 03:08:47.007 Beyond what I've already heard 03:08:47.007 --> 03:08:49.429 that's helped me get to this decision point 03:08:49.429 --> 03:08:51.901 so that I can change my mind again, 03:08:51.901 --> 03:08:53.504 which at this point I'm not sure that I will, 03:08:53.504 --> 03:08:57.476 but having more information might help. 03:08:57.476 --> 03:08:59.032 So that'd be the only way. 03:08:59.032 --> 03:09:01.554 If you're prepared to do something like that 03:09:01.554 --> 03:09:03.698 so that everybody gets the same information. 03:09:03.698 --> 03:09:04.879 Because I can go get it, 03:09:04.879 --> 03:09:08.173 but then, other members may not have the entirety 03:09:08.173 --> 03:09:10.231 of the feedback within their districts. 03:09:10.231 --> 03:09:12.520 And so I don't know if you'd be prepared to do that 03:09:12.520 --> 03:09:14.329 if we moved forward with this. 03:09:14.329 --> 03:09:16.055 Point of information. 03:09:16.055 --> 03:09:17.633 You spoke to-- 03:09:17.633 --> 03:09:18.752 He spoke to. 03:09:18.752 --> 03:09:20.085 Okay, Mr. Allen. 03:09:21.464 --> 03:09:24.829 Highly unlikely that I could get back to Austin 03:09:24.829 --> 03:09:27.351 between the time given, so I want to know 03:09:27.351 --> 03:09:31.485 what my absence would do in terms of affecting the vote. 03:09:31.485 --> 03:09:33.149 Because I don't think I can make it. 03:09:33.149 --> 03:09:34.670 I can't make it either. 03:09:34.670 --> 03:09:36.604 Madam Chair, parliamentary inquiry. 03:09:36.604 --> 03:09:38.266 I was gonna make a point. 03:09:38.266 --> 03:09:40.618 Does the rule require two-thirds of the membership 03:09:40.618 --> 03:09:43.018 or two-thirds of members present? 03:09:43.018 --> 03:09:43.875 That's a good question. 03:09:43.875 --> 03:09:46.013 If you were able to cobble eight people together-- 03:09:46.013 --> 03:09:47.372 Present and voting. 03:09:47.372 --> 03:09:50.732 So it would be two-thirds of the eight. 03:09:50.732 --> 03:09:54.126 Two-thirds of the eight, correct? 03:09:54.126 --> 03:09:56.517 Two-thirds of those who are present 03:09:56.517 --> 03:09:58.607 and voting and that's in the statute. 03:09:58.607 --> 03:09:59.440 Okay. 03:09:59.440 --> 03:10:00.410 And you can do remotely. 03:10:00.410 --> 03:10:02.230 We figured this out one other time, right? 03:10:02.230 --> 03:10:04.147 You can do some remote? 03:10:05.834 --> 03:10:07.659 That was discouraged, because it's very expensive 03:10:07.659 --> 03:10:09.159 for us to do that. 03:10:10.209 --> 03:10:11.042 It's not easy. 03:10:11.042 --> 03:10:14.760 Because you have to make it livestream and... 03:10:14.760 --> 03:10:15.823 Yeah, I agree. 03:10:15.823 --> 03:10:17.619 Okay, let's just go ahead and vote 03:10:17.619 --> 03:10:20.663 if there's no super pertinent discussion, 03:10:20.663 --> 03:10:22.980 let's just vote to have another meeting or not. 03:10:22.980 --> 03:10:25.168 All those in favor of having another meeting 03:10:25.168 --> 03:10:29.335 between now and December 15th, please raise your hand. 03:10:30.267 --> 03:10:32.010 All those opposed to having the meeting 03:10:32.010 --> 03:10:34.765 between now and December 15th, raise your hand. 03:10:34.765 --> 03:10:36.259 Okay, motion fails. 03:10:36.259 --> 03:10:38.162 What was the outcome of the vote? 03:10:38.162 --> 03:10:40.940 So the outcome is that this rule's gonna go into effect 03:10:40.940 --> 03:10:41.773 90 days? 03:10:44.631 --> 03:10:46.269 December 15th, the rule will go into effect. 03:10:46.269 --> 03:10:47.602 Okay, moving on. 03:10:52.913 --> 03:10:54.830 Number 14, your agenda. 03:10:59.381 --> 03:11:01.548 (mumbles) 03:11:17.996 --> 03:11:20.133 Okay, what's going on here? 03:11:20.133 --> 03:11:21.485 We're waiting on Miss Cargill. 03:11:21.485 --> 03:11:22.510 Oh, Miss Cargill. 03:11:22.510 --> 03:11:23.366 Sorry. 03:11:23.366 --> 03:11:25.300 Yeah, we're like Miss Cargill, let's go. 03:11:25.300 --> 03:11:26.405 (laughs) Well, I didn't hear my name, so... 03:11:26.405 --> 03:11:27.249 Oh, so sorry. 03:11:27.249 --> 03:11:28.685 I was sleeping at the wheel. 03:11:28.685 --> 03:11:31.749 Okay, we're on agenda item number five, 03:11:31.749 --> 03:11:35.666 which, on your little minutes, is on page three 03:11:35.666 --> 03:11:38.749 and, in your notebook, is on page 4-77. 03:11:39.870 --> 03:11:43.258 This is the review of the proposed amendments to 19 TAC, 03:11:43.258 --> 03:11:47.349 Chapter 234, Military Service Members, Military Spouses, 03:11:47.349 --> 03:11:49.141 and Military Veterans. 03:11:49.141 --> 03:11:52.788 And it was moved unanimously to recommend 03:11:52.788 --> 03:11:56.117 that the SBOE take no action on the proposed amendments 03:11:56.117 --> 03:12:00.723 to 19 TAC, Chapter 234, Military Service Members, 03:12:00.723 --> 03:12:03.919 Military Spouses, and Military Veterans. 03:12:03.919 --> 03:12:06.387 And members, what this did is it extends 03:12:06.387 --> 03:12:10.060 temporary certificates for military spouses to three years, 03:12:10.060 --> 03:12:13.827 and it gave clarification of renewal requirements 03:12:13.827 --> 03:12:17.094 for military service members and their spouses 03:12:17.094 --> 03:12:18.594 and also veterans. 03:12:19.958 --> 03:12:22.673 Okay, so the motion before us, as recommended 03:12:22.673 --> 03:12:24.119 by the committee, is to take no action 03:12:24.119 --> 03:12:27.130 on the proposed amendments to 19 TAC, Chapter 234, 03:12:27.130 --> 03:12:29.448 Military Service Members, Military Spouses, 03:12:29.448 --> 03:12:30.954 and Military Veterans. 03:12:30.954 --> 03:12:32.765 All those in favor say aye? 03:12:32.765 --> 03:12:33.685 Aye. 03:12:33.685 --> 03:12:35.062 All those opposed, say no. 03:12:35.062 --> 03:12:37.075 Motion is adopted. 03:12:37.075 --> 03:12:40.629 We are taking no action is what I'm trying to say. 03:12:40.629 --> 03:12:44.127 Agenda item number six is on the bottom of page three 03:12:44.127 --> 03:12:45.806 of your minutes. 03:12:45.806 --> 03:12:49.973 It's on page 4-89, and it continues in your minutes. 03:12:52.015 --> 03:12:54.956 The motion itself is actually on page four. 03:12:54.956 --> 03:12:56.968 It was moved to recommend 03:12:56.968 --> 03:12:59.426 that the State Board of Education take no action 03:12:59.426 --> 03:13:03.364 on the proposed revisions 19 TAC, Chapter 239, 03:13:03.364 --> 03:13:06.170 Student Services Certificates, Subchapter A, 03:13:06.170 --> 03:13:09.238 School Counselor Certificate, and Subchapter C, 03:13:09.238 --> 03:13:12.155 Educational Diagnostic Certificate. 03:13:13.630 --> 03:13:17.797 And so I think the thing that we heard the most about 03:13:19.026 --> 03:13:22.193 actually is found on page four dash... 03:13:23.069 --> 03:13:24.134 Hold on. 03:13:24.134 --> 03:13:24.967 4-106. 03:13:27.029 --> 03:13:29.227 This is what we heard the most testimony about, 03:13:29.227 --> 03:13:31.242 and that would be changing 03:13:31.242 --> 03:13:34.627 our school counseling certification 03:13:34.627 --> 03:13:38.710 to include a 48-hour Master's degree in counseling. 03:13:40.518 --> 03:13:44.395 And you can see that language in the middle of the page 03:13:44.395 --> 03:13:46.645 under 239.20, number three. 03:13:53.492 --> 03:13:56.687 Yes, Miss Perez-Diaz. 03:13:56.687 --> 03:13:57.683 Thank you, Madam Chair. 03:13:57.683 --> 03:13:59.022 I just want to go on the record as saying 03:13:59.022 --> 03:14:03.906 that I was a dissenting vote on this one as well. 03:14:03.906 --> 03:14:05.988 I know that we heard from testimony across the state 03:14:05.988 --> 03:14:10.200 regarding concerns, once again, like what we heard 03:14:10.200 --> 03:14:14.697 regarding certification for the FCS teachers. 03:14:14.697 --> 03:14:16.777 Because of the scope of the work 03:14:16.777 --> 03:14:19.003 that our counselors are expected to do 03:14:19.003 --> 03:14:21.987 and the challenges they face with the students, 03:14:21.987 --> 03:14:25.703 I feel like it's necessary that advanced certification 03:14:25.703 --> 03:14:29.710 and advanced training in this field is necessary. 03:14:29.710 --> 03:14:32.578 And so I just wanted to state, 03:14:32.578 --> 03:14:35.875 mention where I was coming from in my vote 03:14:35.875 --> 03:14:37.542 against this motion. 03:14:38.384 --> 03:14:40.114 Oh, wait a minute. 03:14:40.114 --> 03:14:42.197 That's opposite of what-- 03:14:43.668 --> 03:14:46.037 So you agree with the rule. 03:14:46.037 --> 03:14:48.386 Because the rule upped the number of hours. 03:14:48.386 --> 03:14:50.130 Yes, there you go, thank you. 03:14:50.130 --> 03:14:52.022 Okay, because I wanted to make sure we understood. 03:14:52.022 --> 03:14:54.106 I was like, wait a minute, we're upping the requirement. 03:14:54.106 --> 03:14:54.939 Yes, yes. 03:14:54.939 --> 03:14:56.069 So you agree with upping the requirement. 03:14:56.069 --> 03:14:57.148 I agree, thank you. 03:14:57.148 --> 03:14:59.019 Gotcha, gotcha, okay. 03:14:59.019 --> 03:15:01.019 Okay, yes, Miss Beltran. 03:15:01.891 --> 03:15:03.690 Just for clarification, I'm confused 03:15:03.690 --> 03:15:06.663 about what a 48-hour Master's degree in counseling, 03:15:06.663 --> 03:15:07.746 what is that? 03:15:08.926 --> 03:15:12.707 My Master's degree took me two years to get. 03:15:12.707 --> 03:15:15.540 What is a 48-hour Master's degree? 03:15:16.522 --> 03:15:18.043 Oh, credit? 03:15:18.043 --> 03:15:20.210 Credit hours, okay, sorry. 03:15:21.528 --> 03:15:22.657 (laughs) 03:15:22.657 --> 03:15:23.872 Madam Chair. 03:15:23.872 --> 03:15:26.404 I don't know if staff wants to comment about the 48 hours 03:15:26.404 --> 03:15:30.404 but there are 41 states that do require Master's 03:15:31.569 --> 03:15:34.054 in Counseling for their school counselors, 03:15:34.054 --> 03:15:36.001 and so Texas is kind of behind on that. 03:15:36.001 --> 03:15:40.168 And a lot of the testimony focused on school counselors, 03:15:41.190 --> 03:15:42.416 what they deal with now. 03:15:42.416 --> 03:15:44.682 I mean, I don't even need to go into all the details, 03:15:44.682 --> 03:15:45.515 but what they deal with. 03:15:45.515 --> 03:15:46.651 Yeah, I was in there to listen to that. 03:15:46.651 --> 03:15:47.608 So that was part of the discussion. 03:15:47.608 --> 03:15:49.656 But we did hear from others that didn't agree with that. 03:15:49.656 --> 03:15:50.908 That didn't agree, yeah. 03:15:50.908 --> 03:15:53.721 And I believe, if Mr. Franklin, I think I was talking 03:15:53.721 --> 03:15:55.957 to Mr. Franklin yesterday because I asked-- 03:15:55.957 --> 03:15:57.538 Where'd he go? 03:15:57.538 --> 03:15:58.371 Oh, okay. 03:15:59.462 --> 03:16:02.185 Could you talk to us about the recommendation 03:16:02.185 --> 03:16:04.852 of the committee that worked on, 03:16:06.599 --> 03:16:07.987 their thoughts about this? 03:16:07.987 --> 03:16:10.837 Because I think they were pretty split, as I understand, 03:16:10.837 --> 03:16:13.337 about whether this was needed. 03:16:14.326 --> 03:16:15.655 The timeline? 03:16:15.655 --> 03:16:19.202 Yeah, kind of go over that part of it if you would. 03:16:19.202 --> 03:16:22.314 So Madam Chair, Members, Marilyn Cooke, Educator Certification 03:16:22.314 --> 03:16:23.305 and Testing. 03:16:23.305 --> 03:16:26.747 In your books, there is a timeline of the work 03:16:26.747 --> 03:16:28.391 that this committee went through. 03:16:28.391 --> 03:16:30.058 Roman numeral 4-115. 03:16:31.934 --> 03:16:33.894 Chairwoman Bahorich is correct. 03:16:33.894 --> 03:16:35.724 From the beginning of this process, 03:16:35.724 --> 03:16:38.974 there was never consensus on the change 03:16:40.637 --> 03:16:42.845 to the 48-hour Master's degree. 03:16:42.845 --> 03:16:46.616 And so when you look at the timeline in your actual booklet, 03:16:46.616 --> 03:16:50.134 we started conversations with our board, this process. 03:16:50.134 --> 03:16:54.088 The committee was appointed way back in June of 2016, 03:16:54.088 --> 03:16:58.496 began their individual work on a review of current rules 03:16:58.496 --> 03:17:01.900 and providing feedback on ways to improve it. 03:17:01.900 --> 03:17:06.730 And that information was presented to the board in March, 03:17:06.730 --> 03:17:08.492 a side by side comparison. 03:17:08.492 --> 03:17:10.249 March of 2017. 03:17:10.249 --> 03:17:13.130 Prior to that, I had the opportunity to engage 03:17:13.130 --> 03:17:15.652 in some late night webinars in February 03:17:15.652 --> 03:17:18.769 and continued to talk about the committee's feedback 03:17:18.769 --> 03:17:20.207 on the rules. 03:17:20.207 --> 03:17:23.072 The school counselors, all along, worked through 03:17:23.072 --> 03:17:25.004 all of the changes you see in here, 03:17:25.004 --> 03:17:28.463 and that was the only, the degree requirement change, 03:17:28.463 --> 03:17:31.044 rather, has been the only piece 03:17:31.044 --> 03:17:33.142 there's not been consensus on. 03:17:33.142 --> 03:17:37.309 So both sides of the issue in October at the SBEC meeting, 03:17:38.225 --> 03:17:42.258 they heard from nine individuals coming to testify. 03:17:42.258 --> 03:17:45.043 Everyone is in agreement that it's important 03:17:45.043 --> 03:17:47.493 to have prepared counselors. 03:17:47.493 --> 03:17:50.116 The disagreement is in the methods 03:17:50.116 --> 03:17:54.377 in which programs are allowed to get them prepared. 03:17:54.377 --> 03:17:56.601 And can you give us the count of those, 03:17:56.601 --> 03:17:59.934 of the counselors that have this degree, 03:18:02.389 --> 03:18:04.157 the Master's degree, the 48 hours, 03:18:04.157 --> 03:18:08.288 versus those that are trained each year? 03:18:08.288 --> 03:18:11.352 I would say out of the advisory committee members, 03:18:11.352 --> 03:18:14.685 and your list is on roman numeral 4-117, 03:18:16.255 --> 03:18:18.668 there was not an even split. 03:18:18.668 --> 03:18:22.640 I would say if you said probably four solid 03:18:22.640 --> 03:18:26.116 and the remaining neutral or not. 03:18:26.116 --> 03:18:29.599 Oh, I mean the amount of teachers trained 03:18:29.599 --> 03:18:32.470 through the alternative certification, yes. 03:18:32.470 --> 03:18:33.890 I'm sorry, Chairman Bahorich. 03:18:33.890 --> 03:18:35.404 I'm sorry, yeah, I didn't make myself very clear at all. 03:18:35.404 --> 03:18:38.901 So the total number, when we looked at our 2016/2017 data, 03:18:38.901 --> 03:18:42.901 the total number was about 175 school counselors 03:18:44.504 --> 03:18:47.442 prepared through the alternative certification programs. 03:18:47.442 --> 03:18:51.899 So that's an overall about 11.24% of the overall number. 03:18:51.899 --> 03:18:55.316 Last year, for 16/17, we had about 1,530. 03:18:56.920 --> 03:18:59.320 A small number of those as well were from individuals 03:18:59.320 --> 03:19:01.333 from out of state who were already certified 03:19:01.333 --> 03:19:03.158 and went through our credentials process. 03:19:03.158 --> 03:19:06.074 But for the alternative certification programs, 03:19:06.074 --> 03:19:08.574 11.24%, about 172 people. 03:19:10.407 --> 03:19:12.896 And so, in effect basically, this would cause 03:19:12.896 --> 03:19:14.815 the alternative certification programs 03:19:14.815 --> 03:19:16.843 to no longer be offered because you would need 03:19:16.843 --> 03:19:19.792 to go through a university... 03:19:19.792 --> 03:19:21.415 The degree program, yes ma'am. 03:19:21.415 --> 03:19:24.190 Alternative certification programs cannot award the degrees. 03:19:24.190 --> 03:19:25.791 Right, that's what I wanted to make sure 03:19:25.791 --> 03:19:28.513 that we all understood about this particular issue. 03:19:28.513 --> 03:19:29.615 Yes, Mr. Maynard. 03:19:29.615 --> 03:19:31.593 And then Miss Perez, and then Mr. Rowley. 03:19:31.593 --> 03:19:33.662 So I guess my question to staff is 03:19:33.662 --> 03:19:37.662 if a small rural school district cannot identify 03:19:39.824 --> 03:19:44.152 a qualified candidate who has this Master's degree 03:19:44.152 --> 03:19:46.152 and cannot get qualified 03:19:47.203 --> 03:19:48.846 through an alternative certification program, 03:19:48.846 --> 03:19:51.205 what are their options? 03:19:51.205 --> 03:19:53.771 So the recruitment phase, 03:19:53.771 --> 03:19:56.468 and Mr. Maynard, that's an extremely valid question 03:19:56.468 --> 03:19:58.182 and I think it's one of the things that's come up 03:19:58.182 --> 03:19:59.766 throughout this process as well, 03:19:59.766 --> 03:20:03.241 which is why at the October meeting our board recommended 03:20:03.241 --> 03:20:06.231 delaying the implementation of this until September 1 03:20:06.231 --> 03:20:07.666 of 2019. 03:20:07.666 --> 03:20:09.608 It allows candidates who are currently going through 03:20:09.608 --> 03:20:12.747 the process to get certified, so those alt programs 03:20:12.747 --> 03:20:14.627 who are producing candidates now will be able 03:20:14.627 --> 03:20:16.139 to finish that pool. 03:20:16.139 --> 03:20:18.770 But if I'm in a part of the state where it's hard 03:20:18.770 --> 03:20:20.779 for me to recruit a candidate, 03:20:20.779 --> 03:20:22.587 I'm going to either have to team up, 03:20:22.587 --> 03:20:25.483 I'm going to have to perhaps try to emergency certify 03:20:25.483 --> 03:20:26.593 with someone. 03:20:26.593 --> 03:20:29.047 I may become a district of innovation. 03:20:29.047 --> 03:20:31.723 I may ask for a general certification waiver. 03:20:31.723 --> 03:20:33.495 I would have to utilize some other options 03:20:33.495 --> 03:20:36.601 to try and employ a school counselor. 03:20:36.601 --> 03:20:38.093 And just as a follow up. 03:20:38.093 --> 03:20:41.481 And I think that's really our challenge. 03:20:41.481 --> 03:20:46.151 And if you're out there with Miss Perez or Mr. Rowley, 03:20:46.151 --> 03:20:49.080 this is that if you've got a Master's degree 03:20:49.080 --> 03:20:52.319 and you can go be a counselor in the Metroplex 03:20:52.319 --> 03:20:54.983 or something like that, unfortunately that tends 03:20:54.983 --> 03:20:57.703 to push a lot of our rural school districts out 03:20:57.703 --> 03:20:58.737 onto the margins. 03:20:58.737 --> 03:21:00.894 And that becomes a real challenge 03:21:00.894 --> 03:21:03.066 and it's not just counselors. 03:21:03.066 --> 03:21:06.333 I mean, they're having a hard time hiring Math teachers, 03:21:06.333 --> 03:21:07.166 you know? 03:21:07.166 --> 03:21:10.017 And I think that when we add this additional requirement 03:21:10.017 --> 03:21:13.919 and the alternative certification goes away, 03:21:13.919 --> 03:21:16.423 I think you're making a rural school district have 03:21:16.423 --> 03:21:18.132 to jump through a lot of hoops. 03:21:18.132 --> 03:21:19.852 So, thanks. 03:21:19.852 --> 03:21:23.549 Mr. Miller, did you want to share something with us? 03:21:23.549 --> 03:21:27.102 Miss Cook did a very good job of listing out the options, 03:21:27.102 --> 03:21:30.757 but another option is if a person wants to begin 03:21:30.757 --> 03:21:32.873 the process of a Master's degree, 03:21:32.873 --> 03:21:36.616 that program can recommend a probationary certificate 03:21:36.616 --> 03:21:38.817 so they could be working as a counselor 03:21:38.817 --> 03:21:41.102 while they're going through the program, 03:21:41.102 --> 03:21:42.225 so that's another option. 03:21:42.225 --> 03:21:45.258 And many of our programs offer an online component, 03:21:45.258 --> 03:21:47.135 so they can do the coursework online, 03:21:47.135 --> 03:21:51.045 and then the university sends a person out to the campus 03:21:51.045 --> 03:21:52.728 to do the field supervision. 03:21:52.728 --> 03:21:54.316 So that is another option for people 03:21:54.316 --> 03:21:56.416 that don't have a Master's 03:21:56.416 --> 03:21:58.625 but want to start getting a Master's degree. 03:21:58.625 --> 03:22:00.833 And I believe Miss Perez, Mr. Rowley, 03:22:00.833 --> 03:22:03.166 and then Beltran and Cortez. 03:22:07.066 --> 03:22:08.757 I have some handouts that I would like to share 03:22:08.757 --> 03:22:11.007 with everybody, and while staff is passing these out, 03:22:11.007 --> 03:22:14.064 I would ask my fellow colleague board members 03:22:14.064 --> 03:22:16.147 to look at page IV, 4-117. 03:22:18.657 --> 03:22:20.384 If you would please look at all of the individuals 03:22:20.384 --> 03:22:22.258 on the committee, you will notice that none of them came 03:22:22.258 --> 03:22:23.675 from rural areas. 03:22:24.622 --> 03:22:29.035 First thing that I would like to point out to everyone. 03:22:29.035 --> 03:22:33.667 Number two, if you will look at the cost comparison, right, 03:22:33.667 --> 03:22:37.573 cost analysis breakdown, Lamar University will give you 03:22:37.573 --> 03:22:41.490 your 48 credit hours, but it is entirely online. 03:22:43.555 --> 03:22:47.722 If you look at the document that demonstrates the count 03:22:49.735 --> 03:22:53.152 of requirement types and it's a vertical, 03:22:54.762 --> 03:22:59.736 it demonstrates the offerings of Region 19 ESC and UTEP. 03:22:59.736 --> 03:23:03.950 You will notice that everything that is required is there. 03:23:03.950 --> 03:23:06.385 My point to sharing all of this information with you 03:23:06.385 --> 03:23:09.552 is that because it is a 48-hour degree, 03:23:12.034 --> 03:23:13.910 does not inherently make it great, 03:23:13.910 --> 03:23:16.637 and because it is an alternative, accelerated program 03:23:16.637 --> 03:23:20.304 from an ESC does not inherently make it bad. 03:23:21.475 --> 03:23:24.056 Voting on something like this causes a great deal 03:23:24.056 --> 03:23:28.752 of negative repercussions for our rural schools 03:23:28.752 --> 03:23:32.919 where we struggle to get highly qualified counselors. 03:23:33.796 --> 03:23:37.193 And again, I remind you that because these individuals 03:23:37.193 --> 03:23:40.274 are certified through an ESC does not make them 03:23:40.274 --> 03:23:41.756 not highly qualified. 03:23:41.756 --> 03:23:44.498 On the contrary, if you look at what is listed here 03:23:44.498 --> 03:23:47.726 from Region 19, you will see that they are, by far, 03:23:47.726 --> 03:23:50.994 highly qualified to do this work. 03:23:50.994 --> 03:23:55.077 Again, SBEC did not have anybody from rural areas 03:23:56.488 --> 03:23:58.853 on the committee, therefore their recommendation is 03:23:58.853 --> 03:24:03.020 not a full reflection, is not an accurate reflection, 03:24:04.260 --> 03:24:07.286 of the state of Texas and I push this, at the very least, 03:24:07.286 --> 03:24:10.153 push this back to SBEC to do a better committee review. 03:24:10.153 --> 03:24:13.320 If not, I vote against moving forward. 03:24:14.787 --> 03:24:18.537 Dr. Miller, could you discuss the committee 03:24:21.076 --> 03:24:22.076 that was in? 03:24:24.004 --> 03:24:25.456 Well, Madam Chair, if you don't mind, 03:24:25.456 --> 03:24:26.971 I was the one that worked closest 03:24:26.971 --> 03:24:27.886 with the Committee of Improvement. 03:24:27.886 --> 03:24:28.719 Okay, terrific. 03:24:28.719 --> 03:24:30.245 And am happy to respond to that. 03:24:30.245 --> 03:24:33.662 So we went and sent committee nominations 03:24:36.486 --> 03:24:40.449 to our board members to all teacher organizations, 03:24:40.449 --> 03:24:42.726 to everyone on our pre-board briefing. 03:24:42.726 --> 03:24:44.500 I went back through my emails last night 03:24:44.500 --> 03:24:47.087 after the conversation going. 03:24:47.087 --> 03:24:49.050 I'm pretty sure that we tried to canvas the world 03:24:49.050 --> 03:24:50.538 to recruit. 03:24:50.538 --> 03:24:52.850 And we heard from two 03:24:52.850 --> 03:24:55.063 of our teacher organization colleagues, 03:24:55.063 --> 03:24:58.430 we reached out to school personnel administrators, 03:24:58.430 --> 03:25:00.459 we reached out to everyone who usually attends 03:25:00.459 --> 03:25:02.870 SBEC board meetings, legislative staff. 03:25:02.870 --> 03:25:05.725 We even extended the deadline for nominations posted 03:25:05.725 --> 03:25:06.928 on the website. 03:25:06.928 --> 03:25:09.460 Dr. Miller and I went out, we basically begged 03:25:09.460 --> 03:25:11.167 for nominations. 03:25:11.167 --> 03:25:14.950 So when the committee was actually approved, 03:25:14.950 --> 03:25:19.306 back in June of 2016, our current counselor board member 03:25:19.306 --> 03:25:21.636 was one of the members on the committee. 03:25:21.636 --> 03:25:24.629 When she got appointed to then become an SBEC board member, 03:25:24.629 --> 03:25:26.966 we lost that representation. 03:25:26.966 --> 03:25:29.889 There were a couple of other university folks, 03:25:29.889 --> 03:25:31.926 there were a couple of other school district folks 03:25:31.926 --> 03:25:34.228 in other parts of the region. 03:25:34.228 --> 03:25:36.870 But because these folks were not going to be paid 03:25:36.870 --> 03:25:39.924 to come in, because they have lives and other things, 03:25:39.924 --> 03:25:40.779 we lost. 03:25:40.779 --> 03:25:44.660 So we originally had 18 folks when this was appointed. 03:25:44.660 --> 03:25:47.189 Dwindled down to what you see here. 03:25:47.189 --> 03:25:49.050 But I think I would like to say, 03:25:49.050 --> 03:25:50.947 as respectfully as I can and sound, 03:25:50.947 --> 03:25:53.207 that while there might not have been a rural school 03:25:53.207 --> 03:25:56.385 representative on the committee, 03:25:56.385 --> 03:25:59.654 this very group of folks raised the very same issues 03:25:59.654 --> 03:26:03.931 about changes in rules, about concerns about hiring, 03:26:03.931 --> 03:26:07.562 about financial resources, about impact. 03:26:07.562 --> 03:26:10.920 So while you physically don't see a rural voice 03:26:10.920 --> 03:26:13.345 or representation there, the same issues 03:26:13.345 --> 03:26:15.711 that larger areas of the state, 03:26:15.711 --> 03:26:18.275 they did raise those concerns across the state. 03:26:18.275 --> 03:26:19.878 So this committee was not focused 03:26:19.878 --> 03:26:21.980 on just what's best for me. 03:26:21.980 --> 03:26:24.007 They really did a good job of thinking globally 03:26:24.007 --> 03:26:25.558 about all parts of the state. 03:26:25.558 --> 03:26:26.595 So all of that with respect. 03:26:26.595 --> 03:26:28.182 And they were split in the way they felt 03:26:28.182 --> 03:26:29.708 about this issue, they were split. 03:26:29.708 --> 03:26:34.264 So I think that's important to note is the extent 03:26:34.264 --> 03:26:36.620 that we went through to get the right kind 03:26:36.620 --> 03:26:39.263 of committee together that would represent 03:26:39.263 --> 03:26:41.212 all the viewpoints. 03:26:41.212 --> 03:26:44.537 Okay, I think I've got Mr. Rowley and then Mr. Cortez. 03:26:44.537 --> 03:26:45.415 Okay. 03:26:45.415 --> 03:26:49.065 I echo the sentiments of my colleague from El Paso 03:26:49.065 --> 03:26:51.525 with regard to the effect on rural schools. 03:26:51.525 --> 03:26:52.702 Not necessarily committee makeup, 03:26:52.702 --> 03:26:55.671 but the effect on rural schools. 03:26:55.671 --> 03:26:59.300 In fact, we had testimony yesterday in the committee 03:26:59.300 --> 03:27:03.217 from the Texas Association of Community Schools 03:27:06.203 --> 03:27:09.727 and also TREA, and that's the Rural Educators' Association, 03:27:09.727 --> 03:27:11.006 I think. 03:27:11.006 --> 03:27:12.339 TASA. Also, TASB. 03:27:14.738 --> 03:27:17.644 We had the Texas Elementary Principals 03:27:17.644 --> 03:27:19.339 and Supervisors Association. 03:27:19.339 --> 03:27:23.269 We also had the superintendent from Granger ISD, 03:27:23.269 --> 03:27:25.553 which is considered a rural school district, 03:27:25.553 --> 03:27:26.830 and I visited with him afterwards. 03:27:26.830 --> 03:27:30.163 He said the problem is that whenever we, 03:27:31.423 --> 03:27:33.991 if we have a counselor and we put them through 03:27:33.991 --> 03:27:38.158 that Master's program, give them the time to do that, 03:27:39.196 --> 03:27:40.627 as soon as they attain that Master's, 03:27:40.627 --> 03:27:42.211 they go to greener pastures. 03:27:42.211 --> 03:27:44.626 They go somewhere else besides a rural school 03:27:44.626 --> 03:27:48.711 which is where, even though they trained them to do that. 03:27:48.711 --> 03:27:52.461 And so it is very simply an issue of staffing 03:27:53.511 --> 03:27:57.678 in rural schools and their inability to attract counselors 03:27:58.956 --> 03:28:03.401 with Master's degrees, 48-hour Master's degree 03:28:03.401 --> 03:28:07.318 as compared to those from alternative programs. 03:28:08.217 --> 03:28:11.541 And so for that reason, the impact on the rural schools, 03:28:11.541 --> 03:28:14.874 then I'm in favor of rejecting the rule. 03:28:16.925 --> 03:28:20.559 Mr. Cortez and then Miss Melton-Malone. 03:28:20.559 --> 03:28:21.392 You're done? 03:28:21.392 --> 03:28:23.815 Okay, Miss Melton-Malone? 03:28:23.815 --> 03:28:24.980 Thank you, Madam Chair. 03:28:24.980 --> 03:28:27.185 I received some information from the counselors 03:28:27.185 --> 03:28:30.592 in Region 12, which is my biggest region, 03:28:30.592 --> 03:28:33.484 and they are quite concerned about this 03:28:33.484 --> 03:28:37.395 because they see that it's gonna deter people 03:28:37.395 --> 03:28:39.037 from going into the counseling field 03:28:39.037 --> 03:28:41.405 because of the 48 hours. 03:28:41.405 --> 03:28:45.199 Region 12 has written a curriculum for counselors 03:28:45.199 --> 03:28:47.970 for an all star program, and they told me 03:28:47.970 --> 03:28:51.514 that's gonna pretty much wipe out their all star program. 03:28:51.514 --> 03:28:56.340 And agreeing with my colleagues about the rural schools. 03:28:56.340 --> 03:28:58.424 It's gonna put a real burden on those rural schools, 03:28:58.424 --> 03:29:01.007 so I would vote to reject this. 03:29:02.679 --> 03:29:05.489 Okay, are you ready for the question before us here? 03:29:05.489 --> 03:29:07.151 The question is not on the (mumbles). 03:29:07.151 --> 03:29:08.521 No, the take no action. 03:29:08.521 --> 03:29:10.093 Right, yeah. 03:29:10.093 --> 03:29:12.180 The question is take no action. 03:29:12.180 --> 03:29:13.013 Okay. 03:29:13.013 --> 03:29:16.136 If you could explain that please because... 03:29:16.136 --> 03:29:17.764 Take no action, that's what we do with SBEC rules, 03:29:17.764 --> 03:29:20.211 either take no action... 03:29:20.211 --> 03:29:21.769 Tell me what that means. 03:29:21.769 --> 03:29:24.344 We vote to take no action, the rule goes into effect. 03:29:24.344 --> 03:29:25.367 Correct. 03:29:25.367 --> 03:29:28.457 So if we vote to take no action, the rule goes into effect. 03:29:28.457 --> 03:29:32.216 So if the majority of us agree to take no action, 03:29:32.216 --> 03:29:34.149 then the rule goes into effect. 03:29:34.149 --> 03:29:36.393 So in this instance, does everybody understand that? 03:29:36.393 --> 03:29:38.347 Miss Hardy and Miss Miller? 03:29:38.347 --> 03:29:41.081 I just want to make sure that everybody understands 03:29:41.081 --> 03:29:42.873 what this vote is. 03:29:42.873 --> 03:29:46.635 If we vote and the majority of us agree to take no action, 03:29:46.635 --> 03:29:49.058 then the increased regulation, not regulation, 03:29:49.058 --> 03:29:51.657 but the increased hours requirement, 03:29:51.657 --> 03:29:54.407 the 48 hours will go into effect. 03:29:56.407 --> 03:29:58.474 Yes, Miss Beltran. 03:29:58.474 --> 03:30:01.072 So basically the inserted language 03:30:01.072 --> 03:30:02.459 is the 48 hours. 03:30:02.459 --> 03:30:03.292 Correct. 03:30:03.292 --> 03:30:05.214 So they would still be required to have a Master's degree 03:30:05.214 --> 03:30:06.779 from an accredited institution. 03:30:06.779 --> 03:30:07.966 It just wouldn't be... 03:30:07.966 --> 03:30:08.799 The 48 hours. 03:30:08.799 --> 03:30:10.595 The 48 hours in counseling, okay. 03:30:10.595 --> 03:30:11.578 That's right. 03:30:11.578 --> 03:30:14.559 That's a good clarification, thank you for bringing that up. 03:30:14.559 --> 03:30:16.890 And may I add one more thing, Madam Chair? 03:30:16.890 --> 03:30:17.723 Yes. 03:30:17.723 --> 03:30:19.473 And that's one thing, I think the example used is 03:30:19.473 --> 03:30:22.595 like someone with a Master's in Biology could be 03:30:22.595 --> 03:30:23.659 the school counselor, 03:30:23.659 --> 03:30:25.257 so it's just a Master's degree right now. 03:30:25.257 --> 03:30:28.924 So that's why I'm in favor of the SBEC rule. 03:30:33.456 --> 03:30:36.227 I think you have-- 03:30:36.227 --> 03:30:38.650 Okay, you come in with your Master's in 48, 03:30:38.650 --> 03:30:42.636 and then you've gotta do this on top of it 03:30:42.636 --> 03:30:44.946 to go and get your certification through the ESC. 03:30:44.946 --> 03:30:48.806 You'd have to do all of this on top of it. 03:30:48.806 --> 03:30:51.277 I want to make sure we've got this right. 03:30:51.277 --> 03:30:52.205 Yes, Dr. Miller. 03:30:52.205 --> 03:30:54.299 Make sure I understand what Miss Perez is saying. 03:30:54.299 --> 03:30:57.170 The 48-hour Master's in counseling, 03:30:57.170 --> 03:30:59.539 if the university is also approved to offer 03:30:59.539 --> 03:31:01.196 the school counselor certificate, 03:31:01.196 --> 03:31:03.409 it would be done within the 48 hours. 03:31:03.409 --> 03:31:04.794 So it's not on top of it. 03:31:04.794 --> 03:31:08.980 The minimum number of hours that a program has to do 03:31:08.980 --> 03:31:10.860 right now is 200 clock hours, 03:31:10.860 --> 03:31:13.834 plus 160 field based experiences 03:31:13.834 --> 03:31:16.605 or what we call practicum, so 360 hours. 03:31:16.605 --> 03:31:18.737 Yes, so what I'm understanding, 03:31:18.737 --> 03:31:20.836 and please correct me if I'm wrong. 03:31:20.836 --> 03:31:22.290 I'm not talking about somebody who's coming in 03:31:22.290 --> 03:31:23.736 with a Master's in Counseling. 03:31:23.736 --> 03:31:26.175 I'm talking about the Master's in Biology. 03:31:26.175 --> 03:31:27.368 Then you are correct. 03:31:27.368 --> 03:31:28.201 Then you would have to go on top of that 03:31:28.201 --> 03:31:29.352 and do this. 03:31:29.352 --> 03:31:32.528 So the Biology teacher would not be the counselor 03:31:32.528 --> 03:31:36.695 without having done this on top of your 48-hour Master's 03:31:37.839 --> 03:31:38.756 in Biology. 03:31:38.756 --> 03:31:39.589 That is correct. 03:31:39.589 --> 03:31:41.256 Thank you. 03:31:43.219 --> 03:31:46.080 But I mean, we're talking about the way it currently is 03:31:46.080 --> 03:31:48.331 on the alternative certification, 03:31:48.331 --> 03:31:51.491 that the Master's in Biology goes right now 03:31:51.491 --> 03:31:53.299 and can get an alternative certification 03:31:53.299 --> 03:31:56.222 for the counseling position, correct? 03:31:56.222 --> 03:31:59.722 And it's not requiring 48 hours right now. 03:32:02.642 --> 03:32:04.844 But I'm just saying, right now they are able 03:32:04.844 --> 03:32:08.393 to get that additional alternative certification. 03:32:08.393 --> 03:32:11.804 If you're a Master's in Biology. 03:32:11.804 --> 03:32:14.653 Tell me again about the vote. 03:32:14.653 --> 03:32:18.403 So if we vote for this rule, or allow this, 03:32:19.764 --> 03:32:23.112 take no action to allow this rule to go through, 03:32:23.112 --> 03:32:26.029 the increase, the amount of hours-- 03:32:27.670 --> 03:32:28.596 I get that. 03:32:28.596 --> 03:32:29.534 The 48, okay. 03:32:29.534 --> 03:32:30.572 How to vote. 03:32:30.572 --> 03:32:32.673 Yeah, tell me the difference in the vote. 03:32:32.673 --> 03:32:36.529 Based on what you said, you wanted to take action, right? 03:32:36.529 --> 03:32:40.218 My vote to take action and I want this rule to move forward. 03:32:40.218 --> 03:32:41.125 No. 03:32:41.125 --> 03:32:43.355 You take no action. 03:32:43.355 --> 03:32:46.313 (mumbles) 03:32:46.313 --> 03:32:47.468 Okay, a vote, yeah. 03:32:47.468 --> 03:32:48.531 This is what we want to say. 03:32:48.531 --> 03:32:51.188 Let the Parliamentarian just say this really clearly 03:32:51.188 --> 03:32:52.405 so we don't get confused. 03:32:52.405 --> 03:32:53.868 Cause I don't want us all confused. 03:32:53.868 --> 03:32:57.334 Okay, the pending motion before you is to take no action. 03:32:57.334 --> 03:33:01.389 A vote in favor of this motion would allow the rule 03:33:01.389 --> 03:33:03.889 to go into effect immediately. 03:33:06.277 --> 03:33:10.194 A vote against this motion would allow you then 03:33:11.263 --> 03:33:13.792 to take up another motion should you wish 03:33:13.792 --> 03:33:18.150 to make another motion such as a motion to reject. 03:33:18.150 --> 03:33:19.809 Similar to the other one. 03:33:19.809 --> 03:33:21.925 Yeah, similar to the one we just did, correct. 03:33:21.925 --> 03:33:23.811 This is exactly like the other one. 03:33:23.811 --> 03:33:26.253 But somebody would have to offer a... 03:33:26.253 --> 03:33:27.086 Okay. 03:33:29.760 --> 03:33:31.877 But if we, okay, here we go. 03:33:31.877 --> 03:33:34.252 Alright, let's go ahead and vote. 03:33:34.252 --> 03:33:36.908 So the vote before us is to take no action 03:33:36.908 --> 03:33:39.306 which allows the rule to go into effect, 03:33:39.306 --> 03:33:42.569 this change in rules to go into effect. 03:33:42.569 --> 03:33:44.976 So if you want this change in rules, 03:33:44.976 --> 03:33:48.190 you want to hold your hand up at this moment, okay? 03:33:48.190 --> 03:33:52.232 So take no action, so the motion before us is 03:33:52.232 --> 03:33:55.031 take no action on the proposed revisions to 19 TAC, 03:33:55.031 --> 03:33:57.911 Chapter 239, Student Services Certificates, 03:33:57.911 --> 03:34:01.046 Subchapter A, School Counselor Certificate, 03:34:01.046 --> 03:34:05.204 and Subchapter C, Educational Diagnostic Certificate. 03:34:05.204 --> 03:34:07.561 All those in favor of taking no action 03:34:07.561 --> 03:34:09.192 and letting the rule go through 03:34:09.192 --> 03:34:11.942 will raise their hands right now. 03:34:16.799 --> 03:34:18.966 (mumbles) 03:34:19.991 --> 03:34:22.149 You want to raise your hands, based on what you said 03:34:22.149 --> 03:34:23.866 just a little bit earlier. 03:34:23.866 --> 03:34:24.876 We want them to have a Master's. 03:34:24.876 --> 03:34:27.127 You want 'em to have a Master's. 03:34:27.127 --> 03:34:28.150 Yeah. 03:34:28.150 --> 03:34:30.317 (mumbles) 03:34:33.374 --> 03:34:34.517 Is that nine? 03:34:34.517 --> 03:34:35.350 Nine in favor. 03:34:35.350 --> 03:34:38.048 Okay, all those who would-- 03:34:38.048 --> 03:34:39.105 Can I see that hand again? 03:34:39.105 --> 03:34:40.188 Let me check. 03:34:41.036 --> 03:34:42.463 Raise your hands. 03:34:42.463 --> 03:34:46.130 I want to make sure we catch the vote right. 03:34:47.322 --> 03:34:48.155 Nine. 03:34:50.337 --> 03:34:51.651 She had it up before. 03:34:51.651 --> 03:34:53.734 She had it up, she did. 03:34:55.665 --> 03:34:56.498 Okay. 03:34:57.403 --> 03:34:58.403 All those... 03:34:59.774 --> 03:35:02.888 And those who do not wish to take no action, 03:35:02.888 --> 03:35:04.971 please hold your hand up. 03:35:07.082 --> 03:35:09.241 Four, okay, five. 03:35:09.241 --> 03:35:13.413 Okay, so the motion carries so we will take no action 03:35:13.413 --> 03:35:14.873 and the rule will go through. 03:35:14.873 --> 03:35:16.702 (mumbles) 03:35:16.702 --> 03:35:19.590 It depends on how many vote. 03:35:19.590 --> 03:35:21.389 Okay, if everybody here votes. 03:35:21.389 --> 03:35:24.850 Everybody here votes, it would be 10 to five. 03:35:24.850 --> 03:35:28.933 If the Chairman does not vote, then nine to four. 03:35:33.135 --> 03:35:35.600 Nine to five without a chair vote. 03:35:35.600 --> 03:35:36.563 Nine to five. 03:35:36.563 --> 03:35:39.710 Well, you don't need me to vote, this is a majority. 03:35:39.710 --> 03:35:41.670 It's a majority vote. 03:35:41.670 --> 03:35:42.586 It's not two-thirds? 03:35:42.586 --> 03:35:44.422 Yeah, no, the next one, vote to reject 03:35:44.422 --> 03:35:45.478 would be a two-thirds. 03:35:45.478 --> 03:35:47.438 And then I would vote. 03:35:47.438 --> 03:35:49.089 Take no action, a majority vote-- 03:35:49.089 --> 03:35:50.092 Yeah, you didn't need me. 03:35:50.092 --> 03:35:50.972 It didn't pass. 03:35:50.972 --> 03:35:52.704 So we're taking no action on this 03:35:52.704 --> 03:35:55.078 and the rule will go forward. 03:35:55.078 --> 03:35:55.911 Okay. 03:35:55.911 --> 03:36:00.448 Okay, members, I believe that's it for today. 03:36:00.448 --> 03:36:04.185 I just wanted to, again, as is our custom, 03:36:04.185 --> 03:36:06.910 just to go around on any personal, 03:36:06.910 --> 03:36:08.856 we always like to stay in touch with each other. 03:36:08.856 --> 03:36:10.952 So if anybody had any personal things 03:36:10.952 --> 03:36:12.603 that they'd like to bring up. 03:36:12.603 --> 03:36:14.200 Yes, Mr. Mercer. 03:36:14.200 --> 03:36:16.788 I just want to thank staff, all the staff, 03:36:16.788 --> 03:36:18.383 all the committee staff and our legal staff 03:36:18.383 --> 03:36:19.749 and support staff. 03:36:19.749 --> 03:36:21.908 Have a wonderful holiday and sincere thank you 03:36:21.908 --> 03:36:23.078 for all you do in putting up 03:36:23.078 --> 03:36:24.565 with 15 different personalities. 03:36:24.565 --> 03:36:25.398 Thank you. 03:36:26.499 --> 03:36:27.664 Yes, Mr. Bradley. 03:36:27.664 --> 03:36:30.000 After I'd been on the board for about 10 years 03:36:30.000 --> 03:36:32.300 and I kept taking home stacks and stacks 03:36:32.300 --> 03:36:33.269 and stacks of stuff, 03:36:33.269 --> 03:36:34.388 one member said "Don't worry about it, 03:36:34.388 --> 03:36:36.554 "you'll just fill up an extra bedroom." 03:36:36.554 --> 03:36:37.979 So I generally don't. 03:36:37.979 --> 03:36:40.354 But I am gonna take one thing home with me. 03:36:40.354 --> 03:36:43.187 This looks interesting, thank you. 03:36:45.637 --> 03:36:46.797 Yes, Miss Cargill. 03:36:46.797 --> 03:36:49.457 I just wanted to say by our next meeting, 03:36:49.457 --> 03:36:51.276 I'm gonna have a girl in the family. 03:36:51.276 --> 03:36:52.109 Woohoo! 03:36:53.289 --> 03:36:55.164 January 20th. 03:36:55.164 --> 03:36:57.718 I had three brothers and three sons, I am ready. 03:36:57.718 --> 03:36:58.854 Very exciting. 03:36:58.854 --> 03:37:00.880 Okay, any other personal notes? 03:37:00.880 --> 03:37:03.054 Yes, Miss Melton-Malone? 03:37:03.054 --> 03:37:06.399 Well, I'm headed to Waco to meet the little lady 03:37:06.399 --> 03:37:09.554 that is making me a new nana today. 03:37:09.554 --> 03:37:10.949 Alright! 03:37:10.949 --> 03:37:12.316 Exciting, exciting. 03:37:12.316 --> 03:37:13.502 Yes, Mr. Maynard. 03:37:13.502 --> 03:37:17.669 Yeah, I just want to tell just a note to the PSF staff 03:37:18.754 --> 03:37:21.330 and things like that. I hope that you found 03:37:21.330 --> 03:37:24.163 that information about PSF really, 03:37:25.564 --> 03:37:27.298 I think that when we go out and speak to the public, 03:37:27.298 --> 03:37:29.446 that's the one thing that people hear about 03:37:29.446 --> 03:37:31.881 that they really have never understood before, 03:37:31.881 --> 03:37:34.854 and I think it's something that as Texans we ought 03:37:34.854 --> 03:37:37.531 to be real proud of and so, yep. 03:37:37.531 --> 03:37:38.364 Absolutely. 03:37:38.364 --> 03:37:42.197 Any other personal notes that we want to make note of? 03:37:42.197 --> 03:37:44.507 Members, I do want to say that I thought we were 03:37:44.507 --> 03:37:47.385 a little hard on SBEC today. 03:37:47.385 --> 03:37:52.336 (laughs) So I'm hoping we enjoy working with our colleagues 03:37:52.336 --> 03:37:54.795 and we're looking forward to our... 03:37:54.795 --> 03:37:57.573 I don't want to let us forget, January 31st 03:37:57.573 --> 03:38:01.469 at our next meeting, we're going to be having 03:38:01.469 --> 03:38:02.819 our next round table. 03:38:02.819 --> 03:38:05.531 We try to do these about once a year. 03:38:05.531 --> 03:38:09.698 And this will be on attracting, training, developing, 03:38:10.998 --> 03:38:12.998 retaining our educators. 03:38:14.269 --> 03:38:17.907 And again, one of the very important topics 03:38:17.907 --> 03:38:19.100 we could even talk about 03:38:19.100 --> 03:38:20.473 on the State Board of Education. 03:38:20.473 --> 03:38:22.343 So it'll be at the Convention Center, 03:38:22.343 --> 03:38:26.283 Austin Convention Center, all day January 31st. 03:38:26.283 --> 03:38:27.948 We've got Doug Lemov coming 03:38:27.948 --> 03:38:31.281 who is the teacher who wrote is it 50... 03:38:36.244 --> 03:38:37.255 Shades of Gray? 03:38:37.255 --> 03:38:38.869 No, not 50 Shades of Gray. 03:38:38.869 --> 03:38:40.376 Teach Like A Champion. 03:38:40.376 --> 03:38:41.321 What was it? 03:38:41.321 --> 03:38:42.401 Teach Like A Champion. 03:38:42.401 --> 03:38:43.296 Teach Like A Champion, 03:38:43.296 --> 03:38:46.713 which almost every teacher that I know of has read this book 03:38:46.713 --> 03:38:47.711 Teach Like A Champion. 03:38:47.711 --> 03:38:50.208 So he will be one of our keynote speakers. 03:38:50.208 --> 03:38:53.731 And this will be the first time that we as a board 03:38:53.731 --> 03:38:58.494 are meeting with SBEC to do something in conjunction. 03:38:58.494 --> 03:38:59.599 This has never happened. 03:38:59.599 --> 03:39:02.483 They are extremely excited about partnering with us 03:39:02.483 --> 03:39:04.755 in this convention. 03:39:04.755 --> 03:39:05.588 Yes. 03:39:08.236 --> 03:39:09.142 Oh, yeah. 03:39:09.142 --> 03:39:10.850 This is free, as always. 03:39:10.850 --> 03:39:15.206 This is free, free all day meeting as always 03:39:15.206 --> 03:39:16.466 at the Convention Center. 03:39:16.466 --> 03:39:17.893 You just go to the Convention Center, 03:39:17.893 --> 03:39:19.415 and you'll be able to go into the rooms. 03:39:19.415 --> 03:39:21.489 We'll have panels going together. 03:39:21.489 --> 03:39:24.532 I sent you all a note about the schedule 03:39:24.532 --> 03:39:27.044 and about the people and we got input from you 03:39:27.044 --> 03:39:28.865 and from on SBEC who should be invited 03:39:28.865 --> 03:39:30.026 and what kind of panels we had. 03:39:30.026 --> 03:39:32.424 It was hard to make choices, as always, 03:39:32.424 --> 03:39:34.823 but we made some, I think some great choices. 03:39:34.823 --> 03:39:36.260 We have some amazing people coming 03:39:36.260 --> 03:39:38.628 from all around the state. 03:39:38.628 --> 03:39:40.820 So in addition, we are using one 03:39:40.820 --> 03:39:44.987 of the final keynote speaker for the TASA/TASB convention 03:39:46.473 --> 03:39:48.690 is going to be, and what's his name? 03:39:48.690 --> 03:39:49.770 Peter Dewitt. 03:39:49.770 --> 03:39:51.020 Peter Dewitt. 03:39:52.317 --> 03:39:54.558 You can find a lot about him. 03:39:54.558 --> 03:39:57.046 He's a speaker that speaks all over the country 03:39:57.046 --> 03:39:58.451 about educators. 03:39:58.451 --> 03:40:02.046 So he will be a keynote speaker as well in the morning 03:40:02.046 --> 03:40:06.171 for us to be a part of the kickoff for that whole day. 03:40:06.171 --> 03:40:09.293 So we want to make sure that your superintendents 03:40:09.293 --> 03:40:12.977 and folks attending the mid-winter will stay for that day 03:40:12.977 --> 03:40:14.764 because we think it's gonna be a pretty dynamic 03:40:14.764 --> 03:40:16.429 and exciting day. 03:40:16.429 --> 03:40:19.629 Could we get invitations from staff so we can send them? 03:40:19.629 --> 03:40:21.641 Yes, yeah, I think that would be great. 03:40:21.641 --> 03:40:23.324 We do need to put an invitation together, 03:40:23.324 --> 03:40:24.157 so people will know. 03:40:24.157 --> 03:40:28.750 Now that I think we have firmed up the agenda? 03:40:28.750 --> 03:40:30.924 They're really close to getting confirmations 03:40:30.924 --> 03:40:33.056 from everybody, really close on that right now. 03:40:33.056 --> 03:40:35.340 And that's why I wanted to send you at least where we were 03:40:35.340 --> 03:40:36.173 couple weeks ago. 03:40:36.173 --> 03:40:37.006 Yes? 03:40:37.006 --> 03:40:39.848 And just information, 'cause that's a longer week for us, right? 03:40:39.848 --> 03:40:41.091 We come in like on a Sunday? 03:40:41.091 --> 03:40:42.040 Yeah, we're gonna come in on Sunday. 03:40:42.040 --> 03:40:42.873 Here all week? 03:40:42.873 --> 03:40:43.706 Yeah, we'll be there. 03:40:43.706 --> 03:40:44.924 It's gonna be unusual because we'll do Monday, 03:40:44.924 --> 03:40:46.658 Tuesday board meetings. 03:40:46.658 --> 03:40:48.976 Wednesday, we're gonna go on the convention all day 03:40:48.976 --> 03:40:50.686 for round table, Thursday, Friday. 03:40:50.686 --> 03:40:51.951 So it's unusual the way we're gonna do it. 03:40:51.951 --> 03:40:53.767 But we also come in for mid-winter. 03:40:53.767 --> 03:40:55.159 Yeah, we're coming in for mid-winter. 03:40:55.159 --> 03:40:55.992 But mid-winter-- 03:40:55.992 --> 03:40:57.092 Most of us come in on Sundays 03:40:57.092 --> 03:40:59.076 and so if we could just get that whole week-- 03:40:59.076 --> 03:41:00.548 We're trying to, yeah, 03:41:00.548 --> 03:41:02.514 we're trying to figure out how to do that. 03:41:02.514 --> 03:41:04.168 And then I think we have Blue Ribbon Luncheon going on 03:41:04.168 --> 03:41:05.001 as well. 03:41:05.001 --> 03:41:06.777 Yeah, if we can work all that out. 03:41:06.777 --> 03:41:09.729 It's gonna be really tight considering... 03:41:09.729 --> 03:41:11.062 Yeah. 03:41:11.062 --> 03:41:12.936 Anyway, thank you, members. 03:41:12.936 --> 03:41:16.686 Great meeting and we will see you in January.